Springfield XD vs. Glock

[sooner_sadiq]

I'm looking into purchasing one of these two weapons. I've read a lot of forums and reviews on the two and it seems the Springfield has a slight advantage. I won't be able to go shoot them until this weekend, so if anyone has any personal experiences, pros or cons with these please let me know.

[Dennis Monk]

As an owner of two Springfield XD's, I have to be a little biased toward them.
I don't have anything bad to say about Glocks but much prefer the handling of the XD. I have a subcompact and full size, both in .40.

[TonyU]

And I'm biased towards Glocks. I think you're going to have to figure it out for yourself.
Of course you can eliminate all that by buying a custom 1911. :D

[sooner_sadiq]

Agreed. It seems to be split down the middle. I do want a .40 and like the extra safety features on the XD.

Grip and feel will play a big part just a matter of getting out their to play.

Dennis and Tony,
Is your preference because of your job or your personal shooting?

I'm use to an M9 so it will be a switch for me.

[Dennis Monk]

I prefer the XD based on personal shooting.
I have only owned one Glock and it was for a short period of time.
I like the feel and handling better with the XD.
I also like the trigger pull better on the XD's that I own.

[Michael J. Bray]

:bow:Hello Robert. I currently carry a Glock as my L.E. issue duty arm. My first choice was the long slide model 35. I choose it for a longer sighting radius. Frankly, I hated it. The grip angle was so foriegn from my Sig 220, H & K, and the 1911. I went back to the agancy and took a Model 21 ,45. Frankly, it's a brick in my little hands, but accurate. One day at the local gun store I had a chance to handle the new "Short Frame" or "SF" model 21. Wow, it looked nearly identical but felt and pointed so much better. Long story short, I bought it out of my own money. With a little persuasion I was able to get the Chief's approval to carry this as my duty weapon, and I am quite happy and confident with it. It also features an ambidexterous magazine release the old model 21 lacks. I also like the Springfield XD, as it's grip is much better feeling (for me) thatn that of the Glock. I have heard the Glock will be offering the "Short Frame" on more of their pistols in the futue. Both the Glock and Springfield are very reliable weapons. Sthe Springfield 'M" match XD's are reportedly very accurate. I have not had opportunity yet to shoot and XD. Frankly, I don't believe either to be a bad weapon at all. Night sights are worth the extra $$, particularly if this is your bedside defensive arm. I prefer (personally) the Tru Glo Tritium fiber opptic version. That is because mostly I work morning shift and am in daylight, and the fiber optic sights gather so much light. It's nice they glow on the nightstand at home, too! Anyway, enjoy your purchase, whichever you decide to go with. :bow:

[AndrewSimonsen]

I prefer the grip angle on the XD and find that it's trigger grip are both a little more comfortable than the Glocks. Either way you are buying a quality piece.

[TonyU]

Dennis and Tony,
Is your preference because of your job or your personal shooting?


Personal shooting. I do not like the XD's feel in my hand. I do not like the feel of the weapon when it fires. Do not like the fact that some are shipped with instructions that tell you aim right below where you POI should be. That last one was a big problem for me. I can ill afford to have a weapon(s) that have a different POA/POI.
I'm also a Glock Armorer and while they're a solid pistol I like the simplicity of maintenance and repairs.

On a final note I am not a big fan of the .40 caliber. Even less so in a Glock. Actually I'm looking to sell all .40 caliber pistols. If you're going to stay with that caliber then maybe you should go with the XD.

[Michael J. Bray]

:bow:I'll concurr with Tony on the .40 cal. I favor the .45 hands down. With regard to the triggers, the "Ghost" connectors really take the rubbery feel out of the Glocks, for around 30-30 bucks. :bow:

[Chokushin]

Another vote for the Glock here! I have 3 Glocks..17, 19, and the 21sf. I have very little use for the .40 cartridge. I shoot far more accurately with the 9mm and the .45. Also the .45 has far better stopping power and makes a much nicer hole :D.

As far as the XD vs. the Glock, I have tried both and find the Glock to be more ergonomic for for my hands. I think it really boils down to personal preference and the size of your hands and length of your fingers.

[sooner_sadiq]

So an update, I bought the Glock 23 today. I bought the LE package. So the Glock 23, 3 magazines, speed loader, cleaning kit, case and lock for $425. They threw in month at the range, a box of range ammo and some targets. So merry Christmas to me.

[Dennis Monk]

That is a good deal. As an XD man I would have jumped all over that.

[jwinch2]

Dennis is right. That is a really good deal. I don't blame you for pulling the trigger (groan) on that one...

[sooner_sadiq]

Now to accompany it, I'm picking up some Teflon ammo for home defense, and ordering the lawman from Cold Steel to finish my xmas to myself.

[Michael J. Bray]

:bow:That does sound like a really good package deal on your pistol. Hmmmmm, gonna have to explore this Christmas to myself concept.........:bow:

[Jeff C.]

I'm an XD man too, but you can't go wrong with a Glock - especially the deal you got. I fire both; the only reason I went with the XD was the price and the added features. I like the M1911, and the XD frame is based on the 1911 - thus the similar feel.

I have been teaching CCW and tactical handgun courses this year with two experienced and licensed instructors. They are both very fond of the Glock. We fire a LOT of rounds; it seems I have less problems with my XD, but that could be because of any number of unrelated factors.

A few 9mm Glock quirks you should know: after auto lock-back of the slide after the last round, DO NOT use the slide-lock/release lever; rack the slide with your non-dominant hand to release the slide, as you normally would to chamber a round. Also, make sure you always have a good firm grip; a sloppy, limp-wristed grip may actually result in incomplete ejections and misfeeds. We had that issue yesterday on the lanes; after the shooter tightened her grip, her constant misfeed issues stopped completely.

As far as the .40, some feel they are prone to kB more than the 9.

Jeff Cook

[TonyU]

A few 9mm Glock quirks you should know: after auto lock-back of the slide after the last round, DO NOT use the slide-lock/release lever; rack the slide with your non-dominant hand to release the slide, as you normally would to chamber a round.
Jeff Cook
That's recommended with all Glocks. I take it one step farther and suggest to do that with all semi's especially if you shoot several different types.
That way you don't have to worry about finding the release under pressure.

[Jeff C.]

Thanks for the additional comments Tony. The guys I shoot with have fired Glocks and instructed for years. They say there is a breakage issue with Glocks if the slide release is used on a regular basis - as well as developing poor habits. Have you heard of that issue?

Jeff Cook

[TonyU]

Thanks for the additional comments Tony. The guys I shoot with have fired Glocks and instructed for years. They say there is a breakage issue with Glocks if the slide release is used on a regular basis - as well as developing poor habits. Have you heard of that issue?

Jeff Cook
From Glock themselves. It wasn't designed as a slide release but as a slide lock only. Why it's so flat compared to other pistols. The only time that you would want to manipulate it is when you're unloading and want to lock the slide back without a mag.

[sooner_sadiq]

Great tips guys, thanks!

[Jeff C.]

From Glock themselves. It wasn't designed as a slide release but as a slide lock only. Why it's so flat compared to other pistols. The only time that you would want to manipulate it is when you're unloading and want to lock the slide back without a mag.

Thanks again Tony; I will no longer call it a "quirk" then, as now I know it is purposely designed that way. :)

Jeff Cook

[starkjudo]

Tony, you still looking to unload any of those weapons?

I'm looking for a used .40 or .45. It will be my first gun to own. I've been told by numerous that i'm better off with a .45. Your opinions are welcome.

[TonyU]

I am, but I already have a buyer.

[Jonathan Randall]

I am, but I already have a buyer.

What about the .40 vs. .45 question? I've seen you state that the .45 has better stopping power, but is that the only reason? What about for a novice? I've been told .45's are harder for a non-expert to fire accurately. Is this so, or only for certain models? For civilians, what is your view and recommendations?

Actually, my questions are directed to any of our military or law enforcement folks on board, not just Tony - although I do wish to hear his views. Not in the market myself, but a friend will be next year. Thanks.

[TonyU]

What about the .40 vs. .45 question? I've seen you state that the .45 has better stopping power, but is that the only reason? What about for a novice? I've been told .45's are harder for a non-expert to fire accurately. Is this so, or only for certain models? For civilians, what is your view and recommendations?

Actually, my questions are directed to any of our military or law enforcement folks on board, not just Tony - although I do wish to hear his views. Not in the market myself, but a friend will be next year. Thanks.
.45's or 9's are better to teach. .40's kick too much.

[Chokushin]

I completely concur with Tony! 9mm and .45's are far easier to learn to shoot than .40's. The.40's have a lot of muzzle flip due to pressures arising from a big powder charge in a 10mm short cartridge.

The .40 evolved from the 10mm that became popular after the Miami Dade FBI shoot out that happened back in the 80's. Several agents were killed or wounded when the 9mm's and .38's they were using failed to stop two heavily armed criminals. One had a Mini-14 and the other a shotgun and .44 magnum.

A couple years after the shoot out the FBI maybe its primary side arm a 10mm. The problem with this was that it was more powerful than most agents could consistently qualify with. Also the 10mm pistols were wearing out quite rapidly due to the heavy recoil from the cartridge.

So S&W went to work on creating a short version of that cartridge that would have less recoil , greater capacity and would not be as hard on pistols.
Hence the .40 S&W was born! However it still has more muzzle flip and recoil than a 9mm or .45 and less stopping power than a .45 does. Another problem with the .40 ( at least as far as glocks are concerned ) is they seem to be more prone to cause what is know as glock kabooms. The pistol blows up from over pressured rounds caused from improper seating depth, slightly over powered powder charge or fouling in the barrel causing to much resistance as the bullet moves through the barrel. These are most common with reloads but have also happened with factory ammo.

Personally I prefer a 9mm because I can shoot it more accurately or a .45 because it has greater stopping power and it is far easier to shoot accurately ( at least in my hands ) than the .40.

Well thats my 5 cents worth LOL. Take care and let us know what you eventually pick up as your first pistol!

[TonyU]

Also the 10mm pistols were wearing out quite rapidly due to the heavy recoil from the cartridge.



Unfortunately I'm seeing the same thing with the G23's.

[Uncon214]

Another Pro-GLOCK 9mm...

My daily carry is a GLOCK 17 with Trijicon Night Sights.


Whatever you get, get it because it works for you. AND FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE GET NIGHT SIGHTS!!!

[Uncon214]

I saw the caliber argument on here earlier.

To all, in my professional opinion (I teach firearms tactics to seasoned professionals everyday and have for the last 2 years as well as being my USMCR unit's marksmanship coach for 3 years) caliber is not as much of an issue as controllability. I carry a 9mm. My 9mm in the head/heart of a felon will make him leave me alone faster than a .454 Cassull from someone who can't put the round where it has to go.

Caliber is not as big an issue as a rapidly aimed, precisely placed, controlled series of shots. That being said, if all you can shoot accurately and quickly is a .380, then carry a .380. If you can put fast, accurate, doses of act-right downrange from a .44 Magnum... then go for it.

Point of story: Instead of placing caliber over all else, try controllability. I work with an individual who hails from USASOC who used a .45 in afghanistan and had to put 3 in an insurgent's chest to finally put him down... "But it was a .45... I don't know why he didn't vaporize." was another friend's response. In the shooter's own words... "Could've been avoided but under stress it's not always perfect."

It was his advice that moved me to the smaller caliber... more shots on tap, capable of being delivered closer together faster.

Just my 2 cents on it.

I'm sure it'll make someone mad but oh well... If you choose a .45 great I carried one for years and do not knock that (or any other) round for carry, this is just my personal and professional opinion (they are one in the same... I don't recommend anything I wouldn't trust my life to) on the issue.

[Webmaster]

If you choose a .45 great I carried one for years and do not knock that (or any other) round for carry, this is just my personal and professional opinion (they are one in the same... I don't recommend anything I wouldn't trust my life to) on the issue.
You age is listed as 22, yet you carried a .45 for years, but in the State of North Carolina you must be 21 years old to legally carry concealed. Police Departments won't even look at you until you are 21 and the USMCR's standard sidearm for SSgt and above is the M-9. So how you have you managed to carry a .45 for years?

What is your MOS in the USMCR and what unit do you drill with?

[Uncon214]

However by NC law on private land, provided you are permitted to possess the weapon (i.e. family gift as my 1911 was) and are carrying it for a lawful purpose (i.e. plinking). I've been carrying on my family's land (since I was 17) and plinkin away in my grandpa's sand pit. And toting that heavy thing through all kinds of brush and many water moc's have met doom by coiling up on the trail and the last thing they saw was that big .45. Besides that, as soon as I was old enough to really understand the weapon, I carried it anytime I went in the woods, my land or not. I am fortunate to not live anywhere near town limits and out in the woods. Most of the county deputies around here see a gun on someone in the woods and ask "Why've you got it" and as long as your answer is "Bobacats" or "Snakes" or "Coyotes" or "Foxes" then you're golden. I am also fortunate in knowing a lot of the county deputies so most of the time when stopped it was always "Just don't be stupid with it" and if stopping anywhere I'd put it in my pack or leave it in a locked glove box. I didn't start every day on-body carrying until Sept. of 2008 whe I got my CCW permit. Until then it just went in the glovebox and that got locked to be legal any time blue lights came around... unless I was going somewhere that started tripping my mental triggers then it was law be damned, i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Other than that, locked glovebox is legal... for anyone who open carry would be legal for... and in this state that would be the legal owner of the weapon. All my weapons were registered to me at the Sheriff's Office as gift's on my 18th birthday.

I have 2 MOS's. 1 Primary, 1 Secondary. Primary is 2111 Small Arms Repairer/Technician and secondary is 0933 Combat Marksmanship Coach (which as a coach you have to qualify on the M9 as well as the rifle and the M4 is being issued predominantly these days to SSgt and above in place of the M9. At least in my unit all of our staff and officers are issued M4's and M9's).

And my unit is 4th MLG H&S Bn. Comm Co. in Greensboro, NC

And your are eligible to be hired by a municipal PD here at 20-1/2. I'm going to BLET in the fall and that was on the application. I'm trying to go the Sheriff's Office route personally.

While not always black or white on legal or illegal regarding my previous carry, it was always done when in the woods or on the way to the woods... out in town was edged weapons only... I made it a point to be as legal as possible.

Out in the woods, I still chose concealed carry. All of the drunks around here have a nasty tendency to show up wherever they're not expected or welcomed. I didn't want them seeing my weapon and showing their ass about something and somehow getting me into stuff because of it. If they didn't see it... it wasn't there. (Of course the 2 drunks we had (1 met a pickup truck at 50 mph and he ain't around no more) were the loud, obnoxious kind that got so drunk they wouldn't have known what they were seeing if I whopped them up side the head with it.)

While a questionable practice (solely dependent on where you are... it's a no-go in town limits, woods or not), carry on private lands is legal here as I am not in town limits and 7 miles from the nearest set of limits. As long as it is your weapon, or the owner knows you have it and you are using it for a lawful purpose, it really depends on how foul of a mood the officer/deputy/trooper in question is in today.

[Webmaster]

I have 2 MOS's. 1 Primary, 1 Secondary. Primary is 2111 Small Arms Repairer/Technician and secondary is 0933 Combat Marksmanship Coach (which as a coach you have to qualify on the M9 as well as the rifle and the M4 is being issued predominantly these days to SSgt and above in place of the M9. At least in my unit all of our staff and officers are issued M4's and M9's).s on how foul of a mood the officer/deputy/trooper in question is in today.
Hmm, interesting... yet you claimed to be a "school trained" 0317 at this site (http://policelink.monster.com/member/Uncon214). I have found additional references to your claim of being a 0317. Care to explain this inconsistency?

BTW, I had a 8531 (now 0931 Combat Marksmanship Trainer) secondary MOS well before you were born, and I am aware of what it takes to qualify as an 8530 (now 0933).

[TonyU]

Kenny, while I applaud the fact that you're a Marine please down play your experiences. They're not that impressive. Many of us here have been there and done that and have the scars to prove it. You say you carried for many years through the woods. No offense, but that does not compare to many of us who carry everyday as part of our careers through the concrete jungles of our society. You're 22 years old you still have a lot to learn. Step back away from the keyboard, slow down on the posting, and do some reading here and you may just pick up a thing or two.

[Jeff C.]

I just have to throw a question out there, as I live in the woods on my own property, stomp around in the woods, have a Florida CCW, etc.

What is the justification for shooting snakes, bobcats, fox, and coyotes just because you are out wandering around in the woods? At least two of those are game species in NC with seasons and bag limits (not sure about the coyotes).

Jeff Cook

[Uncon214]

You'd only be justified in taking the animal if you were in fear of it attacking you. Foxes aren't really a threat, unless they're defending a burrow. Bobcats around here, especially in the fall, aren't afraid of anything. And coyotes are kind of hit or miss. They can get pretty territorial but most of them are skittish and run. Now snakes around here are another story. Water mocassins in particular. We have rattlers but I've only seen two here my whole life.

There is more to me than that which is stated. I'm more than an instructor... Ask yourself, why is a 22 year old instructing for a defense contractor... I'm more than an instructor, here dude. Just because I'm half your age and still have a lot to learn (student first) doesn't mean I don't have valuable experience. I haven't done anything as a Marine except go to a few courses. Yet I do have boots on the ground time in countries that our military doesn't go. And I have read a lot here. And I have learned things here. Hope to learn more actually. Now my experience with concealed carry may not be as extensive as most, I do know what I'm talking about. And I am open to more knowledge. And the company I work for does send me on PSD contracts when we get them and they fall on my rotation for those. And yes, I have done foreign high-risk PSD's in VERY inhospitable places. While not as extensive as others' experience, I do have experience, and I gained it firsthand.

While I am here to learn, if my experience is unwanted, fine, Disregard it. Does not bother me. I'll keep it to myself then.

[Webmaster]

Hmm, interesting... yet you claimed to be a "school trained" 0317 at this site (http://policelink.monster.com/member/Uncon214). I have found additional references to your claim of being a 0317. Care to explain this inconsistency?
You still have not addressed the above issue. Why should we take anything you say seriously when we have this little inconsistency hanging out there?

Also, in what capacity did you have "boots on the ground" in these places?

[Uncon214]

0317 is a designated marksman, which can be held by any Marine assigned to an infantry unit and is nothing more than enhanced marksmanship training with the M16A4/RCO service weapon on employing it at further ranges than a normal rifleman, and an MOS i held previously while on active duty from may 2005 until november 2006, while stationed in 29 Palms with 2/7 on an Individual Augmentation, which is similar to ADOS (couldn't tell you what it stands for as have never been on it but it is similar to TDY (temp. duty) orders). I was primarily an 0612 Field Wireman and was in that unit's comm shop until I had to go to the range with them and was qualified for the school, so I took the option. I am no longer current in either MOS, as I lat moved to 2111 in fall of 2008. Note I only use "school trained" as I am no longer current, yet the knowledge still exists. I went to Combat Marksmanship Coaches' Course with Camp Lejeune's Base Marksmanship Training Unit as my two week Annual Training duty with Greensbo in May 2007.

My boots on the ground experience is as a Civilian Defense Contractor, specifically doing PSD work in the HOA and Latin America. My unit (fortunately) is very cooperative with my old boss, as he is an active duty Army O-5 working at JFKSWC. Company was Arrowhead Counterterrorism & Security. I now work for Centurion Advanced Security Group, ran by the former VP of my previous company. As per specifics, I signed a non-disclosure agreement for all OCONUS assignments.

And as for believing what I say... If you do or don't I won't lose any sleep over it either way.

[Webmaster]

0317 is a designated marksman, which can be held by any Marine assigned to an infantry unit and is nothing more than enhanced marksmanship training with the M16A4/RCO service weapon on employing it at further ranges than a normal rifleman, and an MOS i held previously while on active duty from may 2005 until november 2006, while stationed in 29 Palms with 2/7 on an Individual Augmentation, which is similar to ADOS (couldn't tell you what it stands for as have never been on it but it is similar to TDY (temp. duty) orders). I was primarily an 0612 Field Wireman and was in that unit's comm shop until I had to go to the range with them and was qualified for the school, so I took the option. I am no longer current in either MOS, as I lat moved to 2111 in fall of 2008. Note I only use "school trained" as I am no longer current, yet the knowledge still exists. I went to Combat Marksmanship Coaches' Course with Camp Lejeune's Base Marksmanship Training Unit as my two week Annual Training duty with Greensbo in May 2007.
So much to cover...

TDY is an Army term. :rolleyes:

So you just went to the range at 29 Palms, they offered you the chance to go to Scout Sniper School and you just took it?

:bsflag:

The Scout Sniper School is at Division Schools, Camp Pendleton, 33 Area, not at 29 Palms. Their are four Scout Sniper Schools for the Marine Corps; 1st MarDiv, Camp Pendleton; 2nd MarDiv, Camp Lejeune; 3rd MarDiv, moved in recent years to Hawaii, and at Quantico, VA.

The MOS 0317 is a very specialized MOS and you must be trained at one of the four schools. Below are the qualifications necessary per the MOS Manual.

http://www.marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%201200.17A.pdf

From Marine Corps Order 1299.17A (Military Occupational Specialties Manual), paragraph 3110.7


7. MOS 0317, Scout Sniper (GySgt to LCpl) NMOS (0311, 0321, 0331, 0341,
0351, 0352, 0369)
a. Summary. The scout sniper is a Marine skilled in field craft and
marksmanship who delivers long range, precision fire on selected targets from
concealed positions in support of combat operations. They have a secondary
mission of gathering information for intelligence purposes. They participate
in activities designed to deny the enemy freedom of movement by targeting
enemy leaders, crew-served weapons operators, radiomen, observers,
messengers, and other key personnel with precision fire. Scout snipers
engage vital material targets such as command and control equipment, light
armored vehicles, air defense radar, and missile launchers that require
precision rifle fire to neutralize. Scout snipers also conduct close
reconnaissance and surveillance operations for the infantry battalion in
support of the intelligence section.
b. Prerequisites
(1) Must have a minimum GT Score of 100 or higher.
(2) Must be currently qualified as an expert rifleman.
(3) Possess all the essential qualifications and capabilities of an
infantry Marine.
(4) Must have vision correctable to 20/20 in both eyes. Color
blindness is discouraged.
(5) Must have a current First Class PFT.
(6) Have no history of mental illness.
(7) Must be eligible to receive a secret security classification.
c. Requirements. Successful completion of an approved Scout Sniper
Basic Course at Quantico, or at the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Marine Division.
d. Duties. For a complete listing of duties and tasks, refer to
reference (g), Training and Readiness Manual.
e. Related SOC Classification/SOC Code. Infantry 55-3016.
f. Related Military Skill
(1) Rifleman, 0311.
(2) Reconnaissance Marine, 0321.

Here is plain language interpretation of the qualifications to become a 0317 as stated above. The key point here is that Scout Sniper is a specialized MOS that comes from the Infantry field. You must have an infantry MOS to qualify, and if you do not, and come from an MOS outside the 0300 field, the applicant is sent to the School of Infantry to obtain the essentials qualifications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Sniper#Selection


My boots on the ground experience is as a Civilian Defense Contractor, specifically doing PSD work in the HOA and Latin America. My unit (fortunately) is very cooperative with my old boss, as he is an active duty Army O-5 working at JFKSWC. Company was Arrowhead Counterterrorism & Security. I now work for Centurion Advanced Security Group, ran by the former VP of my previous company. As per specifics, I signed a non-disclosure agreement for all OCONUS assignments.

So why would a small company owned by Army Special Forces types with maybe a couple of dozen employees (at most) hire a 22 year old Marine Reservist with no combat experience and barely old enough to legally carry a concealed weapon, over the thousands of combat veterans that are on the market looking for jobs of this type?

:bsflag:

Further, while I cannot find an appropriate reference (but I will), I am willing to bet there is Code of Federal Regulations or at least DoD regulations which prohibit employment by members of the military in certain paramilitary companies, or at least prohibits the deployment of such individuals to hostile areas overseas. Why? Well if you were killed or captured or if it became known that a member of the company was in the US military (regardless of their active or reserve status), it would create an international incident as they would claim to have been "invaded" by the "US military".


And as for believing what I say... If you do or don't I won't lose any sleep over it either way.
Fair enough, but your stories are not going to convince the many members here who have actually been around the block once or twice and can see right through the BS.

Late Edit: It would appear that Mr. Smith is now removing information from places where he has claimed to be a "school trained 0317", so it's a good thing that I made a copy of one of those pages before he could remove the information (above post #32), and he has also made that claim here in this post. (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=317262&postcount=70)

[Dennis Monk]

I still like the feel of my Springfield XD pistols. :D

[Chokushin]

Hmmmmm is it just me or is it starting to smell like an Austrian made bull pup designed assault rifle in here ;)

[David Craik]

Well, first of all 'Designated Marksman' is not an MOS (0317 or anything else), it is a billet. As already mentioned, an 0317 is a no-sh1t Scout Sniper - a whole different animal. Second of all, unless my math is off in May 2005 when you served with 2/7 as you claim you would have been 17 years, 9 months old since your birthday is in September.

So let's see..

Recruit training, 3 months
10 days boot leave
MCT, 1 month
0612 MOS school, 3 months give or take
Leave(?), check in to unit, ?
DM school (Damneck, VA), 1 month

Dunno..looks like unless you were standing on those yellow footprints on your 17th birthday it's an awful close timeline here...

[Cliff Hargrave]

I was kind of suspicious of the working for the Defense Contractor in countries we are not in. I mean, isn't a Defense Contractor contracted by the Department of Defense? If so, why would the Department of Defense need anyone in a country that the military was not already in? 99% of all the gun toting contractors are basically security guards for bases, supply routes, dignitaries, etc. I never heard of security work so secret you can't talk about it. Heck, Blackwater was the premier contractor group and they have stuff on youtube.

The whole "carrying a .45 on my own land" made me chuckle too. I don't think I know many farm boys around here that walk around all day with a 1911 strapped on. Maybe a .22 rifle or .410 in the truck.

We never did get to the "extensive" martial arts training he has......

[David Craik]

Even more interesting is the fact that from July 2005 to Jan 2006 2/7 was in Iraq. If Cpl Smith's dates are correct, he would have almost instantly been sent to DM school upon checking in and deployed with them to Al-Anbar province. Seems kind of a pertinent piece to leave out of one's history. :D

Weirdly enough, I was also deployed to Al-Anbar the same month.

[Webmaster]

Well, first of all 'Designated Marksman' is not an MOS (0317 or anything else), it is a billet. Second of all, unless my math is off in May 2005 when you served with 2/7 as you claim you would have been 17 years, 9 months old since your birthday is in September.

So let's see..

Recruit training, 3 months
10 days boot leave
MCT, 1 month
0612 MOS school, 3 months give or take
DM school (Damneck, VA), 1 month

You certainly were busy Corporal! ;)
They must tak'em young now Gunny!! :laugh:

Actually I can't really talk since I went to MCRD at the tender age of 17. Turned 18 about ten days or so after graduation.

[David Craik]

Oh, showing up at 17 is not that uncommon. Still being 17 after leave, MCT, and school(s) is rather unusual. Not saying it couldn't be done, just not generally the norm since not that many folks graduate high school at 16.

Much like holding the claimed FOUR MOS's in just about as many years. When you recruit for reserves, you recruit for a specific slot and they must leave on a specific date in order to report by a specific date, there is no leeway like with active duty. It's so small you are replacing a specific person. I recruited out of Hickory, NC - one of the stations that occasionally supplied people for GB and we gave slots away to other stations at every opportunity because due to the ship dates they were often nearly impossible to fill.

I find it difficult to believe that barring some incredible circumstances they are going to let a reservist change his duty MOS every five minutes like this. Why in the heck would any active duty command let a reservist new guy who isn't even from an infantry MOS and only going to be there a short time anyway eat up a school seat? Especially when they surely still had veterans from their 2004 deployment to Iraq?


I don't think I know many farm boys around here that walk around all day with a 1911 strapped on. Maybe a .22 rifle or .410 in the truck.


I usually carry a handgun in the woods too, though it's a .22/.22 mag single action revolver. Just in case. But I wouldn't really count this as 'handgun experience', 99% of the time it's just sitting in the holster. I don't mess with animals that I'm not hunting, and if I have time to shoot a snake usually I have time to just go around it and leave it alone. Apart from the odd coup de grace and some occasional impromptu plinking, about the only time I recall using it was to put down a possum I found that had two badly broken legs and was in a lot of pain.

[Webmaster]

Much like holding the claimed FOUR MOS's in just about as many years. When you recruit for reserves, you recruit for a specific slot and they must leave on a specific date in order to report by a specific date, there is no leeway like with active duty. It's so small you are replacing a specific person.
I had forgotten the part about specific slots that you have to fill and that deviation from that is pretty... unlikely to say the least.

When I was working at 4th MarDiv personnel (as Pers Chief), manning levels was something that we closely monitored and granting a lateral move within the Reserves didn't happen very often, and usually it was only if that lateral move was to fill a more critical billet. Even then, it was sometimes easier (and faster and cheaper) to simply have it filled by a new recruit than to grant a lateral move to a different MOS and then send that Marine to school to be fully qualified.

[David Craik]

Trying to make the timeline fit with the possible reality is seeming more and more like fitting 20 lbs of crap into a 5 lb sack.

The only reservists that seemed to get a decent shot at a move out of their billet was to be a recruiter. I had a potential reservist that was due to fill a spot in Raleigh and because he would be delayed two weeks we had to drop him altogether and eat the loss. HQMC would not accept the deviation.

[AllanJGAnderson]

Trying to make the timeline fit with the possible reality is seeming more and more like fitting 20 lbs of crap into a 5 lb sack.

I've come pretty close though :laugh:

[David Craik]

Yes, I remember. :)

[Jonathan Randall]

Oh, showing up at 17 is not that uncommon. Still being 17 after leave, MCT, and school(s) is rather unusual. Not saying it couldn't be done, just not generally the norm since not that many folks graduate high school at 16.

Much like holding the claimed FOUR MOS's in just about as many years. When you recruit for reserves, you recruit for a specific slot and they must leave on a specific date in order to report by a specific date, there is no leeway like with active duty. It's so small you are replacing a specific person. I recruited out of Hickory, NC - one of the stations that occasionally supplied people for GB and we gave slots away to other stations at every opportunity because due to the ship dates they were often nearly impossible to fill.

I find it difficult to believe that barring some incredible circumstances they are going to let a reservist change his duty MOS every five minutes like this. Why in the heck would any active duty command let a reservist new guy who isn't even from an infantry MOS and only going to be there a short time anyway eat up a school seat? Especially when they surely still had veterans from their 2004 deployment to Iraq?


... and I think this is the wrong forum for someone to come onto with a possibbly (probably?) padded or incorrect resume - particularly a military one, lol. :laugh:

[David Craik]

Uncon214 registered with an e-mail address of kenny.b.smith@***.com

There are 4 Kenneth Smiths in the USMCR according to Marine Online. The only Kenneth B. Smith is a GySgt who holds an MOS of 0231...intel. Uncon214 must REALLY be on the promotion fast track and holds yet another MOS! Also, he's apparently in Japan right now.

I smell the distinct odor of poo-poo.

[tcomea2]

Point of story: Instead of placing caliber over all else, try controllability. I work with an individual who hails from USASOC who used a .45 in afghanistan and had to put 3 in an insurgent's chest to finally put him down... "But it was a .45... I don't know why he didn't vaporize." was another friend's response. In the shooter's own words... "Could've been avoided but under stress it's not always perfect."

Just FYI on this one, there is a story of a Police Officer here in Louisiana who got into a deadly force encounter where he ended up putting 12-16 rounds(dont know the exact number but he had at least 2 reloads with a S&W k frame) in the guy, including 2 in the brain box and the guy kept fighting. The suspect did not actually die till he had blead out almost all his blood. POINT BEING: rounds on target doesnt always mean the suspect is going to fall, you have to be prepaired to continue to fight. if your such a good marine and private contractor wouldnt you know about sucking up bullets and keeping fighting? I mean hell im just a lonly LEO with loads left to learn, with a small dept, but i know about critical incident managment...


Oh and BTY i prefer the glock, trigger pull is better for me.

[Webmaster]

Uncon214 registered with an e-mail address of kenny.b.smith@***.com

There are 4 Kenneth Smiths in the USMCR according to Marine Online. The only Kenneth B. Smith is a GySgt who holds an MOS of 0231...intel. Uncon214 must REALLY be on the promotion fast track and holds yet another MOS! Also, he's apparently in Japan right now.

I smell the distinct odor of poo-poo.
Geeze, I didn't think to look as his email address! Usually I do, but this time I am having a dense moment...or two. Anyway, his IP address is with Roadrunner in North Carolina, so he is probably hacking into Roadrunner from Japan, and making it appear he is actually in North Carolina. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I smell that same odor. Yuck!

[Soke Skip]

I am getting back into shooting after 20 yrs, I have a .45 but want a 40 cal for less kick. why because my wife says that I am older than dirt and don't need a new gun. I am looking at a cougar from Stoeger as it is reported to have less kick than a .45. Has any one tried this gun?

[TonyU]

I am getting back into shooting after 20 yrs, I have a .45 but want a 40 cal for less kick. why because my wife says that I am older than dirt and don't need a new gun. I am looking at a cougar from Stoeger as it is reported to have less kick than a .45. Has any one tried this gun?
I hate to break it to you but a .40 has more of a muzzle flip and kick than a .45.
Muzzle velocity of a .40 is about 1,000 fps. For a .45 it's about 850 to 900 fps.
Add to the sturdier frame of a .45 and the kick is much more manageable than the .40.

[AndrewSimonsen]

I am getting back into shooting after 20 yrs, I have a .45 but want a 40 cal for less kick. why because my wife says that I am older than dirt and don't need a new gun. I am looking at a cougar from Stoeger as it is reported to have less kick than a .45. Has any one tried this gun?

I own a Stoeger Cougar in 9mm. Solid gun at a very reasonable price. It is to bulky to make a good concealed carry piece, but has a barrel that is about an inch shorter than the otherwise similarly sized Beretta 92. As far as muzzle flip goes it actually has an interesting kick. The best way to describe it is that it jerks to the right. No better than most similarly sized pistols I noticed more muzzle flip from the cougar than either a Glock or an XD. The good news is that they can be picked up for around 300 (what I paid for mine).

[Soke Skip]

Thanks Toney, this I knew, but this pistol is advertized as having less because
it operates different than other autos. It does not use straight blow back,so it does not have the kick as a normal .40. I need something that does not have the kick of my .45. I just dont know anyone that has shoot this cougar pistol.
:laugh:Unless you know where I ca get a new wrist elbo and shoulder. I still teach Jiu-Jitsu but don't play with the big boys anymore. I guess the only thing that we make be give up M.A. is when I cant walk anymore.
Thanks again .

[TonyU]

Well, good luck. If you do get it, please post a review. I'm curious as I've never handled that brand. Although, it looks like a copy of the Beretta design.

[jjaje]

Skip,

The Stoeger uses a rotating barrel action, vs a tilt back action. I've shot one once, in 9mm, and did not notice it being better or worse than my 9mm Browning. As Andrew pointed out, it is a thick gun.

If recoil is an issue to you, than 40S&W is probably not a good option (as Tony already mentioned), as it is a high pressure round, as compared to the .45acp.

Honestly, if the .45acp's recoil, in a full size frame is too much for you I'd probably do one of the following two things:

(1) Buy a decent full size S&W .357 mag revolver and shoot .38 specials in it. Find one with some action work and possibly a compensator porting added to the barrel.

(2) If you want a semi auto - get an all steel full size 9mm and possibly have the barrel ported.

[AndrewSimonsen]

Well, good luck. If you do get it, please post a review. I'm curious as I've never handled that brand. Although, it looks like a copy of the Beretta design.

I'll post a review of mine.

[TonyU]

I'll post a review of mine.
Thank you.

[sean_stonehart]

Just picked up a XD-M 9mm. :D:

I'll let you know how it goes when I get a chance for range time after my elbow heals... :eek:

[TonyU]

Just picked up a XD-M 9mm. :D:

I'll let you know how it goes when I get a chance for range time after my elbow heals... :eek:
*Gasp* No! And I thought you were my friend. :D

Good luck. Let us know.

[Jeff C.]

Don't pay no never-mind to Tony and his Glock fetish. ;) Good purchase! :D

Jeff Cook

[Cliff Hargrave]

Just picked up a XD-M 9mm. :D:


They were out of adult calibers at the gun store?

[David Craik]

Ah, the 9mm has it's niche; though of course hardly optimal across the board. It's good to have a bunch o' bullets sometimes.

[jjaje]

Yeah, not everyone has a governmental agency buying our ammo for us :wink2: . 9mm is quite a bit less expensive to practice with (true even if you reload too)

[sean_stonehart]

@Tony ... S'ok... once we break the Austrian via Smyrna link to your senses, you'll see the Swiss have a far better grip on firearms... hahahahahahahaha :-) I was wishing I had the $$$ for a Sig but in today's world, *sigh*

@Jeff... Thanks!! I'm quite excited with it, but I can't do anything until my elbow decides to heal up

@Cliff... nah, the big kids wouldn't even let me sharpen my crayons... ;-)

@David... 19 per mag x 4 goes a long way

@Jeff... true indeed!!

[Cliff Hargrave]

Yeah, not everyone has a governmental agency buying our ammo for us :wink2: . 9mm is quite a bit less expensive to practice with (true even if you reload too)

Hey I bought some ammo before, I think......back in the '80s... :)

[Jeff C.]

Sean, American Rifleman/NRA selected the Springfield Armory XD-M as the 2009 Handgun of the Year for the second time, I believe. It's been awhile since Glock one one of those. :stirthepot:

Jeff Cook

[sean_stonehart]

Sean, American Rifleman/NRA selected the Springfield Armory XD-M as the 2009 Handgun of the Year for the second time, I believe. It's been awhile since Glock one one of those. :stirthepot:

Jeff Cook

Cool... Nifty... can't wait now to get the elbow working... :toast::woohoo:

[sean_stonehart]

1000 Rounds of Ammo... $240 :eek:
Laser Rail System... $65 :eek:
Light Rail System... $45 :eek:
Fun to Ensue... priceless :D

[David Craik]

Much as I love the .45 and especially the .357 revolver, my bedside piece is a 9mm, Taurus PT-92. Easily controllable recoil, low noise, low muzzle flash, lotta rounds. And yup, it kills people. In fact, I have read that the 9mm currently tops the one-shot-stop tables, though this is likely due to professionals using this caliber. Still, I think it used to be around 89%, not too shabby. Sean's could be a real nice piece, with all these bells and whistles!

I haven't fired a whole lot of Glocks, but I don't like the way it feels. They are very well made, but it just feels plastic-y and cheap. I like metal.

[DragonMind]

Made the plunge and got the XD Compact in 45 ACP to be my primary carry piece. Kept my Colt Govt 380 as backup. Now to find a good holster...

[sean_stonehart]

So I took the new kid out today (XDm).

I've got to learn it to be sure & orient my hand to it, but I've got one word to describe it...

BUTTAH...


It was a dream in the hand & to pull. The only thing that got to me after a minute was the 19 round mags. They lasted forever (Fun!!) but were a ***** on the load.

[DragonMind]

I was a little skeptical at first, but after two weeks of wearing this holster (http://www.smartcarry.com/) for 10+ hours at a time, this is hands-down the most comfortable and effective concealed holster I've ever used.

[TonyU]

I was a little skeptical at first, but after two weeks of wearing this holster (http://www.smartcarry.com/) for 10+ hours at a time, this is hands-down the most comfortable and effective concealed holster I've ever used.
But how fast can you get to your weapon?

[DragonMind]

But how fast can you get to your weapon?
Actually a lot faster than it looks. Off side hand inserts thumb in waistband, pull out slightly and primary hand pulls weapon. With no practice, I'm getting about 1.5-1.75 secs to draw. I estimate with a little practice it will be just as fast as a concealed IWB or on the belt.

One thing I really like is I can access it while seated in a car with a seat belt on almost as fast as standing; which is a whole lot better than an IWB or SOB.

[TonyU]

Actually a lot faster than it looks. Off side hand inserts thumb in waistband, pull out slightly and primary hand pulls weapon. With no practice, I'm getting about 1.5-1.75 secs to draw. I estimate with a little practice it will be just as fast as a concealed IWB or on the belt.

One thing I really like is I can access it while seated in a car with a seat belt on almost as fast as standing; which is a whole lot better than an IWB or SOB.
Good to know. Thanks.

[Jeff C.]

This is my conceal carry holster; works good for me. I've got this "thing" for holster retention, and this satisfies my "thing." http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SERPA-CQC-wMatte-Finish,1145,1410.htm

Jeff Cook

[DragonMind]

This is my conceal carry holster; works good for me. I've got this "thing" for holster retention, and this satisfies my "thing." http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SERPA-CQC-wMatte-Finish,1145,1410.htm

Jeff Cook
Nice holster. I'm thinking that might be really nice for open carry. The one place I've found is a problem for the SmartCarry is on my GoldWing because the front of the saddle slants upwards. I can't really conceal the Blackhawk at work, which is one reason I really like the SmartCarry. And weapon retention is not an issue. Your weapon is held in place by your own waistband and its rather unlikely anyone is going to be trying to take your weapon given where it is...unless you've been going to the wrong part of town. :D