View Full Version : What's your thoughts on respect
Ican'tfeelmylegs
01-09-2003, 19:57
All,
It's my strong oppinion that respect of all people and all forms should be formost in everyones mind and actions. What are your thoughts on this?
Bad Karma
01-09-2003, 20:43
Not only would most agree, as they should, but it IS written into the rules and guidelines of BudoSeek! that every registered member agreed with. :devil:
Peace
Ican'tfeelmylegs
01-09-2003, 20:55
yet again I :bow: to Bad Karma
Kimpatsu
01-10-2003, 01:29
Originally posted by Ican'tfeelmylegs
It's my strong oppinion that respect of all people and all forms should be formost in everyones mind and actions. What are your thoughts on this?
Does this mean that you respect Ted Bundy's murder of college students? Or Hitler's extermination of the Jews? Respect has to be earned; if it is freely given, it's worthless. I will respect anything that you can justify; but if you say I should respect you merely because you exist, I will not. I suspect that on forums like this, when people demand respect, what they really mean is that they don't want to be questioned, or their assumptions challenged, too rigorously. Do you accord the same worth to a Van Gogh painting and the postcard you bought in the art gallery lobby with a reproduction of that painting? Of course not. (If so, you pay $5 million for an original, and I'll swap you the postcard for it. Fair deal?) Respect is won through genuiness and personal integrity. Demonstrate those, and you'll win bucketloads of respect. Show contempt for the great masters by claiming equivalency with them, and lose respect faster than a leaky submarine loses air. You cannot take respect from someone; you can only earn it from them.
This has been a public service announcement from the master of ethics. :D
I just love to quote myself, makes me feel smart ;) :
"Here are some of my thoughts, and thoughts that I've heard and trying to apply:
Everyone, who has trained some art or skill - not necessary MA, piano playing goes as well, too - has gained my respect for her/his effort and commitment. When someone is showing her/his skills, I'll concentrate what s/he is doing, follow the art and master's interpretation of it.
I respect my teachers for they readiness to share the knowledge they have gained. I follow lessons open-minded and with close attention.
I respect fellow students and artists in MA, and I try to be 'the best possible uke' in training. I'll do my share to make training as safe, fluent and instructive as possible. I listen other trainees ideas and thoughts and share my owns.
I respect the arts 'an sich', and I respect myself, so I'm expecting that fellow artist treat me in similar way than I treat them in training. In proper moment and manner I'll ask teacher's instructions if I have feeling that I haven't understand something correctly. For respecting arts themselves, I take care where, why and how I show or use anything I've learned and studied."
Truly yours all,
Riku Ylnen
Kimpatsu
01-10-2003, 19:55
I'm not sure whether quoting yourself is the zenith or the nadir of self-gratification. :D
I still maintain that respect is not accorded automatically, it has to be earned. Even if you meet a great master from another style for the first time and say, "Well, I respect him automatically", what you are really saying is that he has earned that respect from you based on what you perceive to be his past achievements. If it's not earned, it ain't respect.
Best,
Respect is an interesting idea. I believe that all people deserve to be treated with a certain amount of respect simply by virtue of being a person. Perhaps "Manners" may be a better term for this. A person by their actions can gain respect, or lose it. A teacher who selflessly gives so that their students can progress earns respect. A self promoted "Master" who is unable to demonstrate even basic techniques will lose respect.
Peace
Dennis
TkdWarrior
01-11-2003, 10:21
to me "Respect is Earned"
Mandeigh Wells
01-11-2003, 17:25
Abbax8 said
Respect is an interesting idea. I believe that all people deserve to be treated with a certain amount of respect simply by virtue of being a person. Perhaps "Manners" may be a better term for this. yes i think the same.......I get fed up with hearing this 'respect has to be earned' stuff...earned how? A child should not respect a parent unless the parent earns the respect of a child......? No there should be a natural respect which can as Abbax8 said " A person by their actions can gain respect, or lose it."
Mandeigh
Kimpatsu
01-12-2003, 08:57
Originally posted by Mandeigh
Abbax8 said yes i think the same.......I get fed up with hearing this 'respect has to be earned' stuff...earned how? A child should not respect a parent unless the parent earns the respect of a child......? No there should be a natural respect which can as Abbax8 said " A person by their actions can gain respect, or lose it."
Turn that around, and you're arguing that a child should automatically respect their parents because of a biological accident. Do you really think children should respect syphilitic prostitutes who abuse them because of a genetic link? (And I'm talking of the father here.)
Of course respect is earned. On whom you@choose to confer it is another matter...
Mandeigh Wells
01-12-2003, 11:39
Turn that around, and you're arguing that a child should automatically respect their parents because of a biological accident. Do you really think children should respect syphilitic prostitutes who abuse them because of a genetic link? well doesn't that come under the part where respect is gained or lost through actions? I am talking about the aveage kid growing up in tha average house with two average parents for whom the rebellious child thinks that its cool to disrespect their parents and that the parents should 'earn their respect' by giving the child their own way. I automatically respect older people but....if they behave badly then that doesn't alter my respect for their age but I may not wish to be associated with them personally. I automayically respect someones knowlege but if they behave like a prat, I still respect their knowlege........respect is what society is built on and lack of respect, be it for people or their property is where society breaks down. I have never told my parents they would have to earn my respect....they have it....but then they are good people.
Mandeigh
When I meet someone I usually act curteously, as a reflection of myself, rather than respectfully, which is a reflection of them.
Bad Karma
01-12-2003, 23:38
I think a definition of respect and courtesy would be useful. What are your personal definitions of each?
Peace
I guess this is where theres the disagreement. I take respect to be a reaction to a person, like love or fear. I take courtesy to be a manner of acting, like kindness or bravery.
Courtesy/kindness/bravery are my own actions which I do choose. I don't choose who I respect/love/fear it's determined by their actions.
Thats the way I use the words anyway...other people probably use them differently.
"Words are our slaves, not our masters"
Crusader Rabbit
01-16-2003, 16:27
I agree with the comment that respect has to be earned. The funny thing is that those who deserve it the least usually seem to be the same ones who automatically expect it and are often offended when it is not demonstrated. Those I've met that have earned my respect rarely if ever requested it.
Hi all,
I have a slightly different view on respect. I believe in giving respect to all, as everyone has a similar potential. However as they progress through life, or as I have come to know them more my respect may change, I may develop greater respect, or lesser respect; respect can come in greater or lesser amounts. I tend to look for positives and in doing so will give people a degree of respect on meeting them, from then on its up to them.
Nice to hear from you Don, how is everything?
warriorwoman
01-19-2003, 21:29
A long time ago, when I first arrived to teach at a girl's school in Thailand, several of the teachers came to visit me at my house on campus. When they asked what the headmistress had offered me in the way of furnishings, they said, "Take what you can get from her!". "We respect her, but we don't love her". It wasn't until a couple of years later that I understood what they were talking about: In the East, one conducts oneself according to their station in life in relation to others' station in life. So, while behaving respectfully of another person, it doesn't mean that they have won your heart. Conduct, respectful or disrespectful is considered very important and you are judged by it. Even though you think someone is an ass or worse, you are expected to behave as though you aren't. This "earning respect" or not earning respect thing is definitely an American thing. Hopefully those subscribing to these attitudes won't go abroad and further taint peoples' attitudes towards us. By the way, it's interesting that those who exhibit this attitude get the most bent out of shape when they aren't respected. Go figure.
janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman.org
Kimpatsu
01-19-2003, 22:55
You will respect mah authoriteh!
Im not sure that earning respect is only an American thing, after all what is a loss of face? I believe the attitudes that warriorwoman talks about are two different forms of respect. On one hand you have your own feelings of respect for an individual, while on the other hand you have your respect for the position or social rank of the individual. I believe that these can be independent of each other, I know that during my military career there were officers who I had little personal respect for, but that didnt detract from the respect I had towards their rank.
Jeannette
02-06-2003, 13:18
Here's a thought on respect....I'm curious to know what other peoples experience
and opinions are on this perspective....
We all know that respect is necessary for ourselves, our loved ones and our surroundings, but do you think about cultural respect and awareness?
I believe that it is vital to have understanding and respect for different countries, their people, their religion, history and politics. (as well as your own!) I've been fortunate to grow up traveling as an American citizen out of the US since I've been two yrs. old,( encouraged by my mom from Bolivia and my father from Germany ), I've been ashamed to see many ignorant people traveling over the years. Most of these travelers were respectful to each other but had no clue they were being rude and offensive to their surroundings. ( I've toyed with the idea of writing a book on "ugly americanism", but just in my journals ) For the record it isn't just Americans with this problem. In general, people all over the world need to have this awareness with each other...perhaps this could establish more RESPECT for each other. At least awareness....vital to a martial artist.
PS OH, I just read warrior-woman and she has very good insight. Thank you Janet!
TenchuDude
02-07-2003, 01:32
I think the age old adage will solve the respect issue, do unto other ya know?
Just a thought- If respect is earned, does a person have to earn respect each time they meet a new acquaintance? Or is the opinion of others sufficient to accord respect?
Peace
Dennis
TenchuDude
02-13-2003, 07:51
I am not sure about everyone else, but people whom I consider my friends have earned more than just my respect. Like Eric, who posts on here as Rikamarudude, has been my bestfreind since 3rd grade. Thats like 60% of my entire life. So I have learned to rely on his judgement as well as my own.
respect does not imply awe. supposing you met ted bundy, should you slander him or treat him as a human being? does it matter if you agree? respect is not accordance. and even from a yin and yang stand point. you should love all evil as you love good, or love neither. modus pollens or modus tollens, I dont' remember. if a therefore b, if not a therefore not b. actually it goes further into the reciprocal one. if a therefore ,b, therefore a.
Harutomo
03-18-2004, 17:17
respect is only the internal thoughts and feelings of 1 person about another. mannerisms and courtesy are the outward expressions of respect. when i first meet someone, they start with my utmost respect and courtesy, their actions after this determines whether they KEEP my respect.
(side note: cops always have my respect cuz of the dangers of the job and the whole "protect and serve" thing, and they have my courtesy cuz they can detain or arrest you for "refusing to cooperate". plus the cop is the one sportin' the .45).
And one of the posts on the first page by Kimpatsu states something about how you should not respect Hitler. Even though he was a complete psychopath, Hitler was voted for in a democratic election and during the 1st year of his command(before the holocaust/jew/WWII thing) he was a pretty decent politician. He also realised that the youthof a country are it's value. ever hear of "Hitler Youth"?Itwas like boy scouts meets boot camp. Boys between 12-16 hold a belief that they are invincible and will bounce back from almost anything. Hitler realised this and used some of them as his personal guard.
For his intelligence he has my respect, but as a person he is somewhere between retarded chihuahua and dead boll weevil on my list. :bow:
I respect all of your opinions. You are all respectful people IMO.
Respectfully ,
DoubleJ
:laugh:
black-gi
03-29-2004, 12:42
for me EVERYONE is given my respect. It does not mean it can't be lost but I generally give people the GOOD benifit of the doubt. HOWEVER! when it comes to fighting/sparring I hold no ones jock strap..... respectfully.
Jason Bryant
Respect is an interesting thing. In answering this question, I have not looked at myself or my feelings at all. Instead, I looked at the people I most respect and the people I respect the least, and here are a few things that I learned.
1. The best way to get respect, is to give respect.
2. People who are concerned with respect ( how much they have earned or how much they give certain people ) don't deserve it. ( and thus don't have it, which is why they are so concerned about having it )
3. Before you can really respect someone else, you have to respect yourself.
These are very simple, but I think that if you really consider these points, they will make some sense, especially when you compare the people you respect to these points.
Tribalweapon
03-30-2004, 10:23
For me, everyone is given a certain amount of respect when I first meet them. As i get to know them this respect either increases, as it did with my intructor, or decreases. It all depends on the person.
without degrees of respect we are limited to black and white decisions that at best would restrict respect to each characteristic of a person. i think the general idea is to treat all people as having the potential for greatness.
Musubi Dojo
03-31-2004, 08:50
I think the amount of repsect you offer to the world around you often mirrors the amount of respect you have for yourself.
Cheers
c
Yang Shen
04-01-2004, 09:19
I would agree with that! it begins with self-respect,self-love, self-control. The external world being an internal reflection.
Many things on earth may happen at a lower level vibration of energy that meaning being conditioned to the temporary and forgetting the eternal so crime, having stuff, power over people are all very real to the unknowing.
Life and essence should unite so we must have compassion for the suffering sleep walking humans who have lost the way. Natural law is carried out, mans laws may mimic or artificially reproduce so those who have lost respect of humanity will be punished by men and are already being punished by natural law (How did they get to such a dark place to begin with?
Personally, I think everyone has the right to be treated with respect and dignity. However that does not mean that everyone should get the same amount of respect. There's such a thing as respecting another human via common courtesy and ettiquete. That does not necessarily mean that we must respect deplorable actions and opinions. We can condemn a person's actions without condemning that person, we even can out of respect tell that person that his or her actions are wrong. One can loose respect for a person on the basis of that person's actions. Why should everyone be treated with respect? Because we all have common bond--in the words of one of my professors "as humans we all are mortal, fallible and vulnerable."
Antonia Jordan
Andrew Green
04-07-2004, 23:32
There is a difference between behaving respectful, and having respect for someone.
One can be forced, the other can not.
There are also different types of respect.
Iraq might hate the US, but they respect it.
Respect can mean a lot of things....
Crusader Rabbit
04-07-2004, 23:35
Courtesy and respect are not synonmous and are not interchangable. Of course, we all deserve courtesy and should extend courtesy to everyone we meet. Respect must be earned, either explicitly or implicitly.
I am courteous to everyone I meet, even if they don't respond in kind. However, I don't respect someone just because. I need a reason to respect another individual. It is that person's obligation to demonstrate the reason he or she is worthy of my respect. It may require years of trust or it could as simple as wearing a fireman's uniform. Whatever, I still need a reason to respect others and I get a bit ticked off by those who, for whatever reason, demand respect from others without evidence to show they deserve it.
Musubi Dojo
04-08-2004, 08:46
I think people that "demand" respect are really looking for some sort of validation and don't really understand what they are demanding.
I don't see it as my job to burst their bubble.
Vanity is it's own punishment.
There was a book called Zen macro-biotics and the author said something like
" If westerners cannot see the hurtful things they do to themselves there is no need for them to go to hell when they die because they're already there."
That cracked me up.
I'm sure I've butchered the quote, but that's sort of a hobby of mine. :D
Cheers
c
Jeff Burger
04-08-2004, 09:34
There is a certain amount of respect / politeness you give to everyone until they earn or lose more in your opinion.
I remember a big promotional years back. Quite a gathering of many of the top guys in our style.
Most of the senseis who were not going to give demonstration were wearing suit and tie.
Then this dirty sweaty smelly guy goes and sits down at the head table.
A green belt goes up and said something to him, something to the effect of who those seats are for and it wasnt him and he wasnt friendly about it.
Wouldnt you know it was a top guy. He had car trouble on the way and had just sat down for a rest and a glass of water before showering and changing.
He came out cleaned and dressed, the teacher of the green belt called the student up and asked if it was ok for shihan to sit now.
When the green belt was called up to test he apologized and voluntered not to test that day.
Jeff
Musubi Dojo
04-08-2004, 10:13
I remember a big promotional years back. Quite a gathering of many of the top guys in our style.
Most of the senseis who were not going to give demonstration were wearing suit and tie.
Then this dirty sweaty smelly guy goes and sits down at the head table.
A green belt goes up and said something to him, something to the effect of who those seats are for and it wasnt him and he wasnt friendly about it.
Wouldnt you know it was a top guy. He had car trouble on the way and had just sat down for a rest and a glass of water before showering and changing.
He came out cleaned and dressed, the teacher of the green belt called the student up and asked if it was ok for shihan to sit now.
When the green belt was called up to test he apologized and voluntered not to test that day.
Jeff
LOL. That's exactly what I meant by "vanity is it's own punishment"
A classic example of instant karma.
Cheers
c
ninjandrew
04-21-2004, 13:44
Great thread.
The 'ole adage "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has always been my general rule of thumb in reference to respect. How could it fail? No really...
Coleen Twig
06-24-2004, 18:36
All,
It's my strong oppinion that respect of all people and all forms should be formost in everyones mind and actions. What are your thoughts on this?
I think this is true but I've hesitated to post in the past because there is so much backbiting and people in judgement on a lot of these boards.
Coleen
Personally, I feel the lines between "respect" and "courtesy" are blurred for some people, I think one should always do their utmost to be courteous, after all, it is just good manners! Respect for others is earned, over time, how else would you know that they deserve your respect, if you don't know them in a personal way. I'm speaking of personal respect, not occupational,positional,etc..I think you can have respect for one's experience and dedication aswell, but I don't think that ties in with what I feel personally towards that person. Also regarding courtesy, I feel that it ties in with "presentation", or how one presents themself to others, which in turn influences my "respect" for them on an initial meeting. Don't you think that "respect" either builds or degrades on a first meeting? While always remaining courteous, you still don't have to respect them as an individual for whatever reasons they have presented. That's my 2 c's.
Best Regards,
Paul Bladen--Midwest Hapkido Group--Hanminjok Hapkido
black-gi
06-25-2004, 07:35
Coleen,
way to hit the nail on the head
Jason Bryant
ninjandrew
07-01-2004, 14:37
Totally. Well said.
mymerrytale
07-02-2004, 07:17
i think the amount of respect a person can genuinely give to someone else greatly reflects upon their character and abilities.
if you are able to 'put yourself into someone else's shoes', chances are you would be willing to give this person respect, no matter what their actions, since you also become more aware of their motivations.
the more removed from your own morality a person you can give your respect to is, the more capable you are of understanding other people and assessing their characters. no one thinks of themself as a bad person, be they a hitler or a mother teresa; they are following their own morality... which, as tangled as it might be to us, can always be understood... and respected.
it is not easy to draw from this reserve of understanding, and it is ALWAYS easier to stick to your own assumptions.
as for people who expect or demand respect, there is something hopelessly human there. who here does not enjoy respect?
of course, some people draw this reaction from us naturally (those who have "earned our respect"), while with others it takes more perception). just my opinion.
respectfully,
roman palitsky
p.s. while its probably possible, i can't say that i have managed to respect EVERYONE i meet.
There is a old saying:
First there was the Way, the natural order of things.
But then that was lost, and Virtue was found used to replace it.
But then that was lost, and Benevolence was found used to replace it.
But then that was lost, and Righteousness was found used to replace it.
But then that was lost, and Morality was found used to replace it.
But then that was lost, and Tradition was found used to replace it.
But then that was lost, and nothing was left to be found.
The entire idea or respect, and/or courtesy, are all second rate substitutes for what is missing. We give these values of Virtue / Benevolence / Righteousness /etc. names and catagorize the boundaries that define them. The truest notion, in my belief and in no way do it try to press this upon others, is that one should act naturally, without intention. When we try to force ourselves into a confined idea we are bound to either brake it our misuse it. The whole idea that "rules are made to be broken". We also then create a opposite of that idea. For instance, the creation of respect leads to the creation to the lack of respect.
In trying to create a system/idea of respect we automatically destruct the idea we are attempting to achieve. And eventually that system/idea is lost, and we then attempt to find another solution and end up creating something even more flawed.
In closing, I don't think that an idea of respect should be given freely to all, nor should some idea be earned. Yet instead, one should live as the way they naturally not to be correct. Without thinking of the of attaining good nor shunning bad, one finds a balance of peace with the others in one's life.
Tre Argerious
Jack Stay
07-21-2004, 16:26
I must agree that there is a difference between courtesy and respect. I show courtesy to everyone I meet; from friends to acquaintences to total strangers and to enemies. But they have to earn my respect.
I have no respect for, say, the American Communist Party, but will show them courtesy in a political debate. And I doubt if Communists could ever earn my respect.
In the martial arts, I show everybody courtesy, though I might have no respect for some individuals.
So I feel there is a definate distinction between courtesy and respect. Respect is earned and courtesy is freely given.
_____________________
John 'Jack' Stay
Courtesy and respect are not synonmous and are not interchangable. Of course, we all deserve courtesy and should extend courtesy to everyone we meet. Respect must be earned, either explicitly or implicitly.
I am courteous to everyone I meet, even if they don't respond in kind. However, I don't respect someone just because. I need a reason to respect another individual. It is that person's obligation to demonstrate the reason he or she is worthy of my respect. It may require years of trust or it could as simple as wearing a fireman's uniform. Whatever, I still need a reason to respect others and I get a bit ticked off by those who, for whatever reason, demand respect from others without evidence to show they deserve it.
I agree wholeheartedly with the distinction between courtesy and respect. Courtesy and tollerance I may offer to all as a course of habbit, a policy if you will.
Respect however requires that I must first have made an investigation so as to know the quality of that which I owe my respect. Else the very nature of it should be devalued.
While although respect is not a commodity answerable to supply and demand (both being infinite) it can nevertheless be sorely diluted.
I got out of this one long ago, but since everyone is still debating this....
The best way to get respect, is to give respect to others. This idea that people must "earn" your respect is very selfish. This attitude assumes that you are someone of importance, that your respect will greatly affect their life somehow. Having this attitude, makes it very hard to learn. Instead, we need to be humble. To be humble, is to be teachable. Only then can we learn all that is being presented. One of the best ways to get this type of humility, is to respect others, ALL others. Another way is through service, but we are talking about respect here. ALL people deserve respect, even if all you respect is that they are a person. Yes, some people will have more or less of your respect, depending upon their actions. I guess to sum this all up, respect is something to be given, not demanded or earned. I think we would all do better if we would show a little more respect to all people.
Crusader Rabbit
08-18-2004, 21:57
I don't think it is selfish or arrogant to require others to earn my respect. I give respect freely in many situations. I respect everyone's right to free speech, yet I also believe that it is wrong to scream "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. I respect everyone's right to do what they want with others as long as both are consenting adults. I don't believe it is right for a man (or a woman) to take sexual advantage of a minor. I respect everyone's right to act or dress how they want, but their right ends at my nose. For example, it's not anyone else's right to punch me in the nose. In much the same way, it's not anyone else's right to make me breathe second-hand cigarette smoke.
I agree with being humble, courteous, etc. I try to be courteous to everyone I meet, but I must admit that I sometimes fail to live up to my own standard. I also don't feel obligated to be courteous to someone who doesn't return it in kind. If someone insults me, then I don't always turn the other cheek. Instead, I am likely to insult them back. Then again, I am only human and subject to certain human frailties.
Please don't come to me and expect me to respect your status or rank in the martial arts without question. I have a right to my own opinion and I respect your right to your own opinion. However, I've often met some pretty arrogant "grandmasters" or "sokes" who seem to expect everyone else to be humble before them without questioning their moral or ethical behavior.
I don't care what others do as long as they cause no harm to others. Yet, it seems like many freely injure others financially, emotionally, even physically, and then hide behind this curtain of "respect" for those with high rank. The sad truth is that this is too often a false or self-appointed status as well.
All of the examples you have fall under the category of things which would cause someone to lose respect, like they were talking about on the first page. (I only read some of that page and some of this page.) Has this thread been circular?
Crusader Rabbit
08-18-2004, 23:22
All of the examples you have fall under the category of things which would cause someone to lose respect, like they were talking about on the first page.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment. Why would you lose respect for considering other people's constitutional rights?
I believe in respecting the rights of others, just as long as they don't infringe on my own rights to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. That doesn't mean that I respect someone's status or position just because it's expected or the "politically correct" thing to do at the time.
As for the other person's comments earlier, I would respect the Communist Party's right to state their opinion. That doesn't mean that I would believe in it or even want to consider it.
I'm not sure who originally said it, but the quote that sums up my thoughts goes something like: "I may not like what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." On the other hand, don't expect me to turn a blind eye if you are doing something that hurts others. I believe it is our duty as citizens to protect the rights of everyone, including the right not to be taken advantage of.
Sorry. I was speaking of the actions you described in the first paragraph. The screaming of "fire", etc.
I think you got rights and respect a little mixed up. I agree with everything you said about rights. However, this thread is about respect.
=================
I don't care what others do as long as they cause no harm to others. Yet, it seems like many freely injure others financially, emotionally, even physically, and then hide behind this curtain of "respect" for those with high rank. The sad truth is that this is too often a false or self-appointed status as well.
=================
This would be the kind of respect that is demanded. These are also the type of people that want you to earn their respect. Thats because they don't understand respect. True respect is freely given, not earned and not demanded. ( rights are fought for, and paid for with blood, kind of a different thing )
It is selfish and arrogant to require people to earn my respect. Who am I really? If I don't respect you Crusader Rabbit, how is that going to change your life? How is it even going effect your life? By requiring you to earn my respect, I am placing myself in a position to have an effect on your life, if I don't respect you. Since the only person placing me in that position, is me, it makes me selfish and arrogant, that I think I can just elevate myself to that position. Isn't that sort of like the "sokes" you were talking about? They raise themselves artificially to some high position of authority.
True respect can only be freely given.
Crusader Rabbit
08-19-2004, 11:05
This would be the kind of respect that is demanded. These are also the type of people that want you to earn their respect. Thats because they don't understand respect.
Nope, these are exactly the ones who EXPECT others to respect them. I have no problem with those who understand that respect must be earned.
And yes, I do respect other people's rights. I also expect them to respect my rights as well. However, I don't expect people to respect me for my accomplishments or talents unless they truly feel I deserve it. If they believe I've done something worthy of respect, that's fine with me. If not, that's also fine with me.
It is selfish and arrogant to require people to earn my respect.
I don't "require" other people to earn my respect, I just don't give it freely to any Tom, Dick, or Harry that wears a black (or red with two gold stripe) belt. This is not being selfish or arrogant. The selfish and arrogant attitude is shown by those who demand respect from others or take it for granted. One individual (who shall remain nameless, but you can check out the web site at Juko-Kai Court Records (http://www.e-budokai.com/jukokai/index.htm) for the ugly details) contacted me and threatened me first with legal action and then with physical injury because he felt that I wasn't "showing proper respect" for his self-appointed soke status. It's become a tangled legal mess for the past four years.
Why should anyone respect someone like that? How does that not make them selfish or arrogant? How does expecting to have to earn other's respect make one selfish or arrogant? I don't follow your perspective here.
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I don't follow your perspective here.
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Part of it is semantics. I say "demand" and you say "expect." We both feel it is wrong to promote yourself to a high position, and the expect/demand others respect, for that self promotion.
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Why should anyone respect someone like that?
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Respect should be given for the fact that they are a human being. Now, whether you want to take his class, believe what he says, give him money.... thats all up to you. But you can respect someone, without doing any of that. I say respect him as a human being. If I understand you correctly, you say respect the rights he has. If he doesn't treat you the way you want to be treated, or if you think he doesn't know what he says he does, you can find someone else to teach you, with out disrespecting him.
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How does expecting to have to earn other's respect make one selfish or arrogant?
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You are confusing one of my points here. If you expect that someone ELSE has to earn YOUR respect, then YOU are selfish and arrogant. This is because you are promoting yourself to a position of authority, in that persons life. As we said before, self promotion to authority, followed by expecting/demanding respect from others is wrong. Here, I am just adding that it is wrong because it is very selfish and arrogant, to assume such a high position, uninvited.
Expecting to earn respect from someone else is fine. But, it shows that you don't really know what respect is. Among other things, respect is freely given. It is not earned. You are expecting to earn something that cannot be earned, only given.
So, how do you get respect? Well, first, don't worry about how much respect you are getting. Then, just live an honorable life, and respect those around you.
I'm probably wrong but my opinion is that :-
You should have respect for all living things i.e. life.
The reason we should respect everone is summed up by the simple observation that we can learn from everyone we meet.
Think about it.
We can learn from a simple fisherman or a Nobel Laureate in Physics. To tell the truth, the fisherman's advice may be more usefull!
Equally, it is not only people from whom we can learn. Nature has much to teach.
Remember, wisdom is gained from listening and observing, not speaking. That's why I appreciate this forum.
Regards, :bow:
Richard
Runar Bjaaland
08-20-2004, 05:49
There is an advertisement on Discovery channel where a Western man eats a meal in a cafe in the Andes I think it is.
He doesnt know the language.
The owner looks at him to see if he likes his meal.
He gestures his approval with a thumbs up sign.
Unknowingly he has given a gesture that is taboo in that culture and has invited the whole room to be offended wih him,
The point is that respect must be recognised in the environment in which you find yourself. You have to be giving cognizant signals.
If this is so , it is interesting to note how important reciprocity is.
Is respect like learning a langage, and is it more a social thing than an individual thing?
Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:
jakmak52
10-12-2004, 17:06
I'm civil to people till I can respect them. :cool:
I respect all people, till they give me a reason not to. Even then, I still respect them as a human being.
Respect is something to be given. Not something to be earned, taken, or demanded.
Crusader Rabbit
10-12-2004, 21:13
I guess it comes down to how you define "respect." If you mean "an act of giving particular attention," I agree in that I respect others in general. However, if you define respect as "the quality or state of being esteemed or as an expression of deference," then I feel this form of respect must be earned. I certainly do not defer to others or hold them in esteem unless they give me reason to do so.
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