Dan Rutano

[Badjer]

Has anyone heard of Punong (please forgive if incorrect title) Dan Rutano or International Rutano Estokada & Haribon Dumog Federation before?

I have tried several times to access his website at: http://www.rutanoestokada.com/ but I always get the following info: "If you are the owner of this web site you have not uploaded (or incorrectly uploaded) your web site. For information on uploading your web site using FTP client software or web design software, click here for FTP Upload Information." Obviously, I am not the owner and as a result cannot upload it. Thank goodness! My computer abilities are limited to spreadsheets, accessing email and other such 1,2,3 click options!

I am wondering about him because I know he lives in the same city as me (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) or, at least he did. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this instructor that they would be willing to share. I have been interested in Escrima/ Arnis/ Kali (which are the more common words for the term he has labelled "Estokada") and as a result am starting to seriously consider partaking in a class in Calgary some where.

I have been looking into the art for about 2 years now (as some of you no doubt recall) to make certain the art contains the elements that I would be interested in. I was hesitant when Escrima/ Arnis/ Kali was first mentioned to me because although I am interested in weapon training I wanted the full spectrum of combat. My previous training has covered many of these aspects before but due to my relocation it makes it difficult to receive consistent instruction from him, although I will be eternally indebted to him. As a result I was looking for an art that would compliment my previous training as opposed to contradicting it. Once I discovered that Escrima/ Arnis/ Kali contained empty hands training as well my interest was peaked and I began what turned into a 2 year research.

I am satisfied enough now with what I have seen that the thing left for me is to find a club (not certain of the fillipino terminology here) and thus asking for any info that anyone might have. I ask about Dan Rutano because almost every instructor I can find in Calgary seems to have been taught by him (or taught by one of his students) and as a result I figured learning from him might be a good place to start.

I was wondering if anyone knows how qualified he is? He seems to cover all the combat ranges but wondered if anyone has seen/ heard anything first hand? If he is qualified I was also wondering if he is a good instructor. I realize it might sound odd if he is qualified in his art but I learned a long time ago that just because someone is good at their art does not mean that they are good at teaching it. I know there was a member on this site that was under him but from what I have seen from his posts he has been inactive for several years now and must presume he has moved on from this site.

Any help will be appreciated. Look forward to your responses.
Cheers!

[jwinch2]

I don't know anything about him. As for the rest, estokada, arnis, eskrima (kali is a modern term) will likely have a strong empty hand component which may or may not have always been there. Back in the days when the native Filipinos were taught weapons from Spanish missionaries they didn't bother too much with the empty hand stuff as they were merely concerned with getting them enough training that they could fight off the Moro Moro raiders and that was about it. Over the many years, most have added a strong empty hand component and also tweaked the weapons techniques they were taught.

If you don't get a good answer on here about the person you are looking for, I would suggest FMAtalk or FMAforum as another place to look for info. Also, if you are looking for good information on FMA in general, I would suggest the Wiley text on Cultural and historical aspects of FMA and also Cebueno Eskrima - beyond the myth as great places to start.

Good luck,

[Badjer]

Jason:
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I have seen many of your posts in the past and respect your opinion. Now, to the topic at hand.


As for the rest, estokada, arnis, eskrima (kali is a modern term) will likely have a strong empty hand component which may or may not have always been there.

Kali is a modern term, is it? Well, I will have to file that it my memory banks then if I am going to be starting this journey.
I can not speak for all of the kali schools out there (still not certain of the term for school/ training hall) but I know that his school trains the open hand components. The areas that he teaches his students are: Single Sword/ Single Stick, Double Sword/ Double Stick, Spada Y Daga (Sword/ Stick & Dagger), Solo/ Doble Daga (Single/ Double Dagger), Dos Manos (2 Hands/ Fists for heavier weapons such as kampilian, bangkaw and sibat), Panuntukan (Fist Fighting), Panadyakan/ Sikaran (Foot Fighting), Tadikalang Kamay/ Kadena De Mano (Chain of Hands/ Defanging the Snake) and Dumog/ Layug (Grappling/ Wrestling).

I must admit that I am not quite certain what some of these areas are but suffice it to say that empty hand is contained within the art that he is teaching.


If you don't get a good answer on here about the person you are looking for, I would suggest FMAtalk or FMAforum as another place to look for info.
Good to know, then.I might go there if I need to. Hopefully someone can help out here, though.

Once again thank you for your response and time.
If anyone else has any info on him please feel free to chiming in.
Cheers!

[jwinch2]

Kali is a modern term, is it? Well, I will have to file that it my memory banks then if I am going to be starting this journey.


That is what the evidence available seems to suggest, though you will not get certain Kali folks to admit it. ;) Many groups that like to call their art "Kali" will make the claim that it is the "mother art" of escrima and arnis and that they can trace it back to the moro moro tribes. However, the only historical works examining that claim suggest that claims is not accurate and that Kali is a modern term that first manifested in Hawaii and in Stockton CA, USA when escrima was first being taught to Americans. Dan Inosanto talks about Kali in his first book on FMA where the claim is made that it is the 'mother art' and that it represents the ancient blade arts of the PI where as Escrima and Arnis are more modern interpretations. One can only assume that that information is what he was told by his own teachers in FMA and that it is also what they had been told through the oral transmission of the histories of their art. Simply put, Guro Dan was working without all of the information at his disposal. However, multiple scholarly works in recent years have refuted those claims.

I study an art which has Kali in the title (Inosanto-LaCoste Kali) and would definitely study other "Kali" arts given the opportunity to do so. I try to stay out of the political discussions on this as people tend to get pretty fired up about it. I suggest checking out the two books I mentioned in my previous post for some detailed discussion on the origin of the various words used to describe the Filipino arts.

Here is a thread in which some vigorous discussion on the origins of the word "Kali" is taking place. It does a nice job of outlining the general controversy and includes some thoughts and comments from several seriously heavy hitters in the FMA world:

http://www.fmaforum.org/index.php?showtopic=2093&st=0

Here are the books I mentioned plus several others. The first two are absolute must haves for anyone curious about the origins, history, and culture of FMA. The rest are great for anyone who is "shopping" systems of FMA or who are curious about some of the more colorful and widely known figures in the Filipino arts past and present:

http://www.amazon.com/Filipino-Martial-Culture/dp/0804820880/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

http://www.amazon.com/Cebuano-Eskrima-Celestino-C-Macachor/dp/1425746217/ref=sr_1_1? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265572587&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Arnis-Eskrima-Edgar-Sulite/dp/B001BZUUTE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265573878&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Filipino-Fighting-Arts-Theory-Practice/dp/0865681805/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_4

http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Arts-Philippines-Reynaldo-Galang/dp/0972767916/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_4

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Blade-Reynaldo-S-Galang/dp/0972767924/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_3

Finally, you can check here to get an overview of many of the known systems of FMA out there:

http://www.fmapulse.com/content/fma-stylessystems

[Badjer]

Thank you for the links. I will certainly look into these books.

If anyone else has anything to add on my original post feel free to do so.

Cheers!

[DragonMind]

Colby,

You might check with Dan Anderson (http://www.danandersonkarate.com/) over in Gresham Oregon. He knows just about every FMA practitioner around. He also has written the best FMA books in existance.

[Badjer]

Barry:

Thank you for your help. I have sent Dan Anderson an e-mail and will let you know how it goes.

I would like to thank you both for your responses. Although neither of you have heard of him I appreciate the fact that you are trying to help me get pointed in the right direction or send me to someone that might know. It's times like this that shows just how helpful the budoseek community can be.

Cheers!

[DragonMind]

To follow up on Jason's comments, when I was in RP back in the 70's, you never heard the word kali much and even then in a different context. I heard of arnis and escrima. Its ironic that back then I studied hapkido and never went to study with the FMA folks while I was there and now almost 40 years later I'm addicted to their arts. :D

I've also heard people try to argue that kali is the blade art vs arnis/escrima as the stick art but that theory doesn't hold water either. If you stop and look at the etymology of the words you find arnis and escrima have Spanish origins. Kali is a Hindu goddess and although there is a rich history of Hinduism in the Philippines, it fell into the minority with the arrival of the Spanish and Christianity. Kali is often represented as the Goddess of War which is probably why folks claim the use of the name for a FMA style, but to use a goddess' name in your style would have been extremely presumptive at best and sacrilegious to many.

What I've heard from native FMA is that Kali came back to RP from the US, lead by folks like Dan Inosanto, Bo Sayoc and Leo Gaje. Call it whatever you like, FMA is fun and brutally effective.

[Badjer]

Call it whatever you like, FMA is fun and brutally effective.

Yes, from what I have seen (which I admit is rather limited) FMA do seem to be brutally effective. In truth, this is what has drawn me to the art. I am quite certain it will be fun as well but that I will experience once I pick up the sticks myself.

I have heard many different stories as to the origins of FMA, but I am not going to pretend that I am the scholar here. Even in my own martial art I am not the most interested in its politics or scholar branches.

For me, it is not so much where it came from as much as it is what it is today. There are so many arts out there that were quite effective at one time but never evolved. I am not going to name any arts here for I am not trying to start a war. The point that intrigues me is how effective FMA are even in today's world.

I have seen another club here in Calgary that has nothing to do with Dan Rutano and it needs a lot to be desired to say the least. Which is why my attention is going towards Dan Rutano.

Once again thank you for all of your help here.

Cheers!

[Badjer]

:confused2 I was uncertain where to post this but since this is the thread that I started my discussion concerning International Rutano Estokada & Haribon Dumog Federation I figured I would continue my discussion here. If a moderator feels it would be better suited as a new thread then feel free to do so.

Now, for the topic at hand. As I stated before in my original post I was trying to track down Dan Rutano and the International Rutano Estokada & Haribon Dumog Federation but had troubles locating it due to having issues accessing his website. However, I eventually gained access (Dragonmind, I contacted Dan Anderson after your suggestion but never heard back from him. However, shortly after my e-mail to him I had access to the website so perhaps he did get a hold of him. Regardless, thank you for putting me in touch with him.) to his website and dropped by to watch a class or two. The place that he teaches out of is relatively close to mine which is a added bonus for me.

So tonight I bit the bullet and tried a class out. I decided to sign up for a month to give me time to see whether or not the FMA will turn out to be my cup of tea or not.

I must say that I absolutely loved it! It turned out to be everything that I was looking for and more. :chipper:

At the beginning of the class I was totally lost and confused. We were doing some warm up drills involving an escrima stick and dagger. They were using different patterns based on angles which was being performed in the air, which was hard to copy. Not to mention that my feet kept trying to do the opposite of what my hands were trying to do. One of the instructors smiled and said just to copy as best as I can and it will make more sense as time goes by.

After that, we partnered up and practiced certain drills with a single stick. This became even more difficult for me as my hands kept fumbling around. Starting to get frustrated here but I know it will come in time. We then went to open hands based on the motions of the single stick we had done, but with other variations. This I kept stumbling with because we would deflect the strike, attack (joint/nerve strike/eyes), jam the arm at his elbow and then I would strike him and it would start again. Sounds simple enough but my arms seemed to have a will of their own and went every where except where they were meant to go.

Then things started to get really interesting for me. We started to get into the Dumog techniques. I must say I have a great respect for the effectiveness of these techniques. I found my elbow being driven to the ground at the same time my face came smashing into the back of his skull and some how I found myself sailing through the air and was suddenly pinned to the ground with a solid arm bar in place similar, but a little different, to what judo would refer to as Juji Gatame. All in all, great fun.

Although I found my self lost more than not this in itself was part of the fun. The fact that I was lost so much shows me that they have a lot to offer me. To top it off both the instructors and students seemed to be good people. Also, the class only consisted of 12 people and that was including me and the 2 instructors which allows for a lot of personal attention as well.

Sorry for the lengthy post but I am just pumped after my class and my Lady just doesn't get it. She is happy to see me so happy but it's nice to share with those with similar interests. Well, that is about it for now. I thought I would keep those of you that have been following my journey updated on my progress.

Cheers!

[Brian R. VanCise]

Excellent I know that all of us who practice the FMA's are glad you made the leap! Good luck! :cool:

[Badjer]

Brian,
Thank you for the welcome to the FMA community and wishing me good luck. I am enjoying it so far and am just itching for my next class. I am sore in muscles I never thought I would be but I believe this is more due to the Dumog than the Estokada.

Well, I better take off and start practicing what I learned before I forget it. There is so much to remember!
Cheers!

[dao]

Kali is a Hindu goddess and although there is a rich history of Hinduism in the Philippines, it fell into the minority with the arrival of the Spanish and Christianity. Kali is often represented as the Goddess of War which is probably why folks claim the use of the name for a FMA style, but to use a goddess' name in your style would have been extremely presumptive at best and sacrilegious to many..


As I understand, the goddess Kali has a dual nature as the goddess of chaos and destruction (which can be caused by war but not necessarily, it can also be caused by storms, hurricanse, earthquakes etc.) and she is also the goddess of rebirth, renewal and motherhood. :cool:

Badjer, hope you enjoy FMA.

[Badjer]

Thank you, Debra. I am enjoying it so far and hope that I can continue to do so.