Ninjutsu Group starting in Pensacola, Florida

[Mark73]

Pensacola Ninja Group!

I am starting a group where people can get together to practice Ninjutsu and Jujutsu.

The group is completely FREE!!!

Just show up in some sweats or a gi. I highly encourage you to bring goggles, however. The group requires all members to wear eye-protectiong while doing sword training.

We can be found at: xxx
Sign up for FREE and start training today!

[Webmaster]

You just made a bunch of nonsense posts so you could circumvent the 15 post minimum so you could post a link to your site, didn't you.

Don't bother to answer...

Bye, bye for ten days.

[Jonathan Randall]

You just made a bunch of nonsense posts so you could circumvent the 15 post minimum so you could post a link to your site, didn't you.

Don't bother to answer...

Bye, bye for ten days.

Oh, my prophetic soul!

His web page lists his experience as 1 year TKD and two years Genbukan. Wonder if he intends to "instruct" this group?

[David Craik]

'Goggles' while doing 'sword training'?

:laugh:

[Don Roley]

His web page lists his experience as 1 year TKD and two years Genbukan. Wonder if he intends to "instruct" this group?

Do you really have to wonder?

I can only imagine the fan boys that would follow this kind of a guy.

[Jason Chambers]

You just made a bunch of nonsense posts so you could circumvent the 15 post minimum so you could post a link to your site, didn't you.

Don't bother to answer...

Bye, bye for ten days.

Wooooooow....

[Jonathan Randall]

Do you really have to wonder?

I can only imagine the fan boys that would follow this kind of a guy.

No, you're right.

On the other hand, he does have incredible skill at disappearing. SKH would be proud!

[Don Roley]

On the other hand, he does have incredible skill at disappearing. SKH would be proud!

He's suspended. He may come back and try the same stuff again just as soon as it is lifted, or he may go away because we won't let him have his way. We will see.

[Archimedes]

'Goggles' while doing 'sword training'?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Mensur.jpg

[Shawn Marsh]

I recently spent two years in Pensacola and sadly this thread is now the closest thing to a BBT/etc dojo I've found in the area.

[Jonathan Randall]

I recently spent two years in Pensacola and sadly this thread is now the closest thing to a BBT/etc dojo I've found in the area.

Sorry to hear that - particularly since the Original Poster neither has, nor ever had (by his own admission), any connection to the Bujinkan whatsoever beyond spending two years in an offshoot system.

[Shawn Marsh]

Yeah, either I didn't look hard enough or there really wasn't anything in the area. Too bad, too, it would have been nice to keep up the little bit I learned in college.

[David Craik]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Mensur.jpg

That guy seems to be doing some sort of Western sword art, thus the mail. Goggles aren't used in JSA.

[Archimedes]

That guy seems to be doing some sort of Western sword art, thus the mail. Goggles aren't used in JSA.

Correct. I couldn't resist injecting a little spoofery based on my posts on Mensur on another thread.

[Mark73]

Hi, everyone.

Being that my post seems to have generated quite a bit of controversy, I felt that I should attempt to explain my intentions. I'll try to explain everything here in one post so that people won't have to go jumping around.

The group I created is one that is very much like other hobby groups, such as Robotics Groups, Electronics Groups, Software Groups, etc. It is a place where ethusiasts can get together and share what they know. They can work together to further each other's endeavors and have a lot of fun. Newcomers, are also welcomed, as the more experienced members share their knowledge. They can share equipment and work together on common projects. The members range from professionals who do it for a living, to members who only know what they've seen on TV.

It was never intended to be a school of some sort. I posted that I only have 1 yr TKD, and 2 years of Genbukan training. This means that I'm only a student...not a sensei. I've tried to be as completely honest and straight-forward with everyone as I could be. I also mentioned on my website, that the group encourages people to continue training at dojos. The group is meant to supplement the dojo, not replace it. Unfortunately, there are no Ninjutsu dojos around here that I can find. All of the Ninjas in this state have decided to head south to Miami and Orlando, which I commented on jokingly in one of my 'meaningless' posts. (More about that later.) The other closest dojo to here in Florida that I found was in Louisiana.

I'd also like to mention that I've done this type of thing before. In my home state, I started a Ninja group. Unfortunately, my home state isn't big on martial arts...especially Ninjutsu. Only 3 members ever showed up. One was a Marine who was studying under another former Marine; another was a person who was very skilled at Kung-Fu but had no knowledge of Ninjutsu; and a another person was a high ranking Black Belt Ninjutsu practitioner of many years. Yes, you heard correctly. A multiple Dan blackbelt showed up at one of our meetings. Training with him was a pleasure. Unfortunately/fortunately(for him), he was getting married and was moving to another state.

That brings to mind another issue, no one said that I had to be the lead instructor. In fact, I have high hopes that people higher ranking than me would come out. I'd love to learn what they could teach. However, being that I'm getting the group started, I'm willing to teach what I know to anyone who knows less.

As for the goggles, I mispoke myself. I meant Eye-Protection glasses of a sort. I am completely serious. I don't care what everyone else does or doesn't do, I am committed to creating a completely safe training environment...especially since I've been the unfortunate recipient of a mean daijoudan shomen giri with a padded sword a couple times. Even lamp light caused my eye a good amount of pain for a few days.
I would've corrected the goggles thing, but the website won't let you make any corrections to a post after about 10 minutes or so.

Speaking of the website, I am a little perturbed. It would seem that my original post angered the people who run this website. I'm assuming that I must've said something offensive, hurtful, rude, or illegal. Because they returned with attacks as though I had hurt them. Ironically, they chose not to delete my post, but instead to respond to it harshly and suspend me from the website for 10 days which prevented me from defending my post. Nor, did they kick me off the site. However, despite keeping my post on this website, they removed the link to my website which is what the post was about. More comments and reviews of my post were created while I was prevented from responding. This makes me wonder what is the purpose of this website. Given the actions of the people who run this website, I'm not even sure if this message will ever be posted for others to see.

Another thing is that I told one of the people who run the website in a personal email that I was posting 15 messages so that I could post a link here, which is what the website requires for link posting. He then turns around and acts like he just figured out a great discovery, in which he states that I created 15 messages so that I could post a link.

However, I disagree with the meaningless post comment, in that though my posts may not have been the most profound, they were definitely not meaningless. A meaningless post would be something like "Ninjas Rock!". I ask about the relationship of ToShinDo to the Bujinkan, and he calls it meaningless.

Also, I didn't want to post 15 comments, but the website makes you post them before you can make a post with a link. I don't know the reasonings behind that, but I don't think I should be criticized for posting 15 comments and then posting a link.

To my knowledge neither the Genbukan nor the Jinenkan are offshoots of the Bujinkan. They are separate systems created by people who, like Hatsumi Masaaki, were personal students of Takamatsu-sensei. However, in my homestate, I did train a few days at a Bujinkan dojo. I was able to immediately jump in with some of their students who had been training at that dojo for years. My senseis, students of the Genbukan, also did some studying under the Jinenkan which they incorporated into their teachings.

I hope this answers most of the questions people might've had about my post. Sorry, if it offended you.

[David Craik]

Also, I didn't want to post 15 comments, but the website makes you post them before you can make a post with a link. I don't know the reasonings behind that, but I don't think I should be criticized for posting 15 comments and then posting a link.

The reasoning behind it is to counteract spammers and those that join with the sole reason of posting a link to their website, seminar, etc.

Perhaps your posts were described as 'nonsense' because in at least a couple of them you resurrected a thread so ancient that the posters aren't even here any more. If a thread is 3 or 4 years old, that's a pretty good indication that it's dead. Especially if it's a question like on the 'Does Ninjutsu Hurt?' thread. The original poster asked that question when he was 13 and you dig up the thread and answer him when he's 17. Surely he a) knows the answer by now or b) no longer cares.

The goggle thing; it's not so much what you call them but that you apparently intend to do some kind of free sparring. Outside of kendo, Shinkendo, and a couple of koryu this is very rare in JSA. Even in those koryu, the use of the fukuro-shinai is a part of their tradition, hundreds of years old. They don't do it as a 'fun hobby', like an electronics club.

Maybe ninjers do it regularly though, I don't know. Most dojo where you see something like this done they are teaching kaka. They lack any sort of actual qualification to be teaching a Japanese sword art.

[Webmaster]

Another thing is that I told one of the people who run the website in a personal email that I was posting 15 messages so that I could post a link here, which is what the website requires for link posting. He then turns around and acts like he just figured out a great discovery, in which he states that I created 15 messages so that I could post a link.
I have never received any sort of personal communication from you on any topic. If you had emailed me to say you were doing 15 nonsense posts to quickly get to where you can post a link, my response to you would have been the same as every other person who has contacted me in that regards; I would have told you not to bother, but send me the link to me, and I would post it for you. Also, any number of my moderators will do this when asked, but none of us appreciate those that try and get around the system we have in place to prevent spamming, especially when done so obviously.

Oh and you were suspended and not banned because it was obvious that you were not selling Viagra, mobile phones, etc., and thus not a typical spammer, but exercised poor judgment in circumventing the rules. Suspensions are meant to reinforce the rules and make an impression on the poster that will result in a change of future behavior. If you had a problem with being suspended, you could have sent me an email, and I likely would have worked something out with you that would have resulted in revoking your suspension and posting your link for you.


Also, I didn't want to post 15 comments, but the website makes you post them before you can make a post with a link. I don't know the reasonings behind that, but I don't think I should be criticized for posting 15 comments and then posting a link.
Dave explained it, and it's worked very well (along with screening potential members) in keeping the spammers at bay.


As for the goggles, I mispoke myself. I meant Eye-Protection glasses of a sort. I am completely serious. I don't care what everyone else does or doesn't do, I am committed to creating a completely safe training environment...
Mark, I've been doing martial arts for nearly 40 years now and I am yet to find any manner or method that creates a "completely safe training environment". It's impossible in that we are training in arts that have the potential at nearly every point to be dangerous in some manner. That's kind of the nature of this "martial" stuff and the only way to not put yourself or others at risk is to not participate. Risk is part of the equation, and the best way to mitigate that risk is to train under the direction of a qualified and experienced instructor. While putting on goggles or other eye protection may make you feel safer, to me it indicates two things (1) you have no business teaching or instructing on your own, and (2) lack of proper instruction and respect for the weapon or art.

[stephenk]

To my knowledge neither the Genbukan nor the Jinenkan are offshoots of the Bujinkan. They are separate systems created by people who, like Hatsumi Masaaki, were personal students of Takamatsu-sensei.

Your knowledge is mistaken. Mr. Tanemura and Mr. Manaka both only met Takamatsu sensei once with their teacher Hatsumi sensei (who was responsible for the vast bulk of their training).

Mr. Tanemura later went on to gain some menkyo through another teacher who also was one of Takamatsu sensei's students at one point. I believe Mr. Manaka's teaching credentials are entirely from Hatsumi sensei.

[TonyU]

Another thing is that I told one of the people who run the website in a personal email that I was posting 15 messages so that I could post a link here, which is what the website requires for link posting. He then turns around and acts like he just figured out a great discovery, in which he states that I created 15 messages so that I could post a link.
Are you referring to me as we did communicate via PM not email? If you remember correctly all I asked you was to please refrain from resurrecting old threads where he OP isn't even around anymore. You were the one that admitted to me that you were posting so you can get 15 posts so you can post a link.


Also, I didn't want to post 15 comments, but the website makes you post them before you can make a post with a link. I don't know the reasonings behind that, but I don't think I should be criticized for posting 15 comments and then posting a link.
We can criticize when your postings are nonsense so you can meet the minimum requirement so you can post a link.

I suggest you take a step back, re-read the rules here. Then, read a bit of posts here so you can get a feeling about what we're all about.

[David Craik]

This is exactly what I was talking about: joining for the express purpose of posting a link. Now surely a man who is trying to start up a martial arts study group will have something substantive to say about martial arts beyond resurrecting old threads in order to meet a quota. This message board exists to talk about martial arts, not simply post a link and then vanish.

Circumventing the rules tends to irk people here. If you were up front about posting a link from the beginning, as Robert said I'm sure a mod would be happy to do it for you. This has been done several times in the past.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Having said that... it was pleasing to note that the ten day suspension allowed Mark to sit back and write a post that made sense and described his thoughts clearly. It was a lesson that worked.

Keep us informed about the progress of the Study Group and enjoy the wealth of information and discussion on the site. The criticism and comment are all well-meaning and the people who have given advice do so from a position of knowledge and experience. If it sounds harsh or blunt, then that is probably because these experienced and wise people want to see you avoid the dangers that they have seen befall others before you. It's hard having your dreams knocked down, but when it happens with words, you don't need medical insurance or to spend the rest of your life drinking your meals through a straw. We'd much rather have an active healthy member on the board than a familiar name appearing as another sad entry in the latest Annual Darwin Awards.

[Don Roley]

The group I created is one that is very much like other hobby groups, such as Robotics Groups, Electronics Groups, Software Groups, etc. It is a place where ethusiasts can get together and share what they know.

In other words, the blind leading the blind.

My advice is to start going to a martial arts dojo instead. With your lack of knowledge and experience you are in no position to know good from bad and your training will probably leave you with many bad habits. You need a teacher to point out your mistakes as you make them so that you do not train them into habits. Trust me when I say getting rid of a bad habit is sheer hell. Better to never build one up in the first place.

[Webmaster]

Are you referring to me as we did communicate via PM not email? If you remember correctly all I asked you was to please refrain from resurrecting old threads where he OP isn't even around anymore. You were the one that admitted to me that you were posting so you can get 15 posts so you can post a link.
Informing a member of the staff that you are violating the rules does not mean you have consent to do so. In fact, it only confirms what I already suspected and the reason for your suspension.

[torbjork]

In other words, the blind leading the blind.
Not necessarily in the case of stuff like software, electronics, and (god forbid) robotics, since it's possible to attain a good basic understanding of these fields by intellectual study (reading books) and experimentation (it works or it doesn't - algorithms suck at playing along and don't get me started on battlebots), but in this case I think it'll be the nearsighted leading the visually impaired at least.

Really, the initiative is a commendable one but unless you get lucky and someone with a lot more experience than yourself joins the study group, I think you'd be better off joining an existing MA school which focuses on something you find interesting, even if it's not all-out ninjerism.

As Mr. Roley says, you'll only end up learning a bunch of bad habits, because beginners in the MAs tend to reinforce each others' misinterpretations unless somebody fixes it for 'em once in a while - I should know!:D

[Mark73]

As for the Tanemura thing, I guess I've been lied to because as I knew it, they were all his students. And for some reason, there was rivalry between them. I even heard that each one held scrolls, but that Hatsumi Masaaki held most of them. I didn't dig too deep into the matter, so I can't say anything about that for certain.

As for the eye-protection, I have no intention of creating any Jubei Yagyuus. I also know that Japanese samurai have been training with face protection for a long time (albeit not eye-wear)...as have european fencers. It makes since to me. And if eye-protection is good enough for racketball or baseball, it's good enough for me. In any event, those who train with me will just have to put up with my eccentricities.

As for the responding to ancient posts, I didn't notice their dates until I had posted a lot of posts. Your dates are tiny, at the left hand, and very unnoticable...at least to me. You have to practically know what your looking for to not miss them. I would advise highlighting them or enlarging them somehow. And since your website didn't allow me to change anything after about 10 minutes or so, I couldn't take back any of my posts. Another one of the rules, I guess.

Also, I must state that the only way that I found this website was because I Googled "Pensacola" and "Ninjutsu". I had to search a bit but I found a request for Ninjutsu in the Pensacola area. I clicked on the request and it brought me to this website. I then went through all of your procedures to sign up and tried to adhere to all of your rules, including stating my real name. In fact, I also included my name as part of my handle "Mark73", which is more than you asked for.

I would advise having your website automatically remove posts that are older than a certain date, because it must be cluttering up the internet with 'useless' posts such as the one I clicked on after I Googled...though I can't seem to find it now. I honestly, had never even heard of this website until I clicked on that post and it brought me here. One might even consider this website to be a...Google Spammer. Not me.

I'm new to this website. It was my first time, so I had not mastered it yet. For example, I didn't know that I could email someone while suspended from the website. The notion itself seems contradictory.

I had no intention of fraud or abusing your website. It is true that my main interest in the website was to post my link as I was trying to get the word out, but I did not find anything wrong about doing so. I meant no offense by it. However, I did have plans to use the website more, after I had discovered it...it seemed ideal and had a lot of martial artists on it.

The website seemed adamant about using your real name. I didn't want to, but I did it. It stated that I had to post 15 posts before I could post something with a link. I didn't want to do that either. But, I did it. I figured that was a clever way for you guys to make sure lots of posts were created. Arithmetically, it seemed a sure fire success.

I understand your problem about spammers. They seem to be everywhere. But, I was not one of them. When seeing that, I'd hope that you guys would not treat me as such.

If you have any further questions about my character, I could give you the private contact information of the multi-Dan black belt who I had trained with. For a time, he was also my Assistant Organizer of the group I originally had created in my home state. I won't state his name openly, here.

[Mark73]

That's funny. Because like I said before, I'm from the Genbukan and was immediately able to jump in with Bujinkan with no problem. Of course there were disagreements, but when is there not.

In fact I've trained with my multi-Dan sensei's sensei before, and was told things differently than what my sensei told me. It wasn't much of a difference...but enough to start an argument over who does it right and who does it wrong.

I think I read something by Hatsumi Masaaki saying that senseis should be considered more as guides along the path...not absolutists. I read that Steven K. Hayes even REQUIRES his students to train in something in addition to Ninjutsu as part of their Ninjutsu training. I don't know if that is true, but I can understand it.

Speaking of which, what do you think of Mixed Martial Arts? Do you think they all do it wrong, compounding each other's mistakes in that none of them are pure? Or do you believe as I do, and others have told me that you quickly find out what works and what doesn't when you try it out?

As with software, it'll either work or it won't. By the way, are you afraid that I can't teach someone how to do seiza rei? I might impart bad habbits?

[Don Roley]

In any event, those who train with me will just have to put up with my eccentricities.

Only a teacher can really lay down such conditions. You have been trying to convince us that you are not trying to be a teacher, just a person wanting to train with others. You just showed your character to us.



I would advise having your website automatically remove posts that are older than a certain date, because it must be cluttering up the internet with 'useless' posts such as the one I clicked on after I Googled...though I can't seem to find it now. I honestly, had never even heard of this website until I clicked on that post and it brought me here. One might even consider this website to be a...Google Spammer. Not me.

That would be stupid because there are old posts that serve as good reference. The posts you were posting to were mainly ones that everyone had moved on. The person asking the questions were not members anymore and such like that. Even so, some of them still serve a purpose as a reference for others.

What you did that pissed us off was breaking the spirit of the rules. You are still defiant about what you did. We don't want people that are here only to hawk their stuff or services. We want people that are here with an honest agenda. You know so little that we would not learn much from you, but if you had tried to overcome your ignorance by asking questions we would have been glad to help. I have been here a few years. It was only a few months ago that I posted a link to my web site. I did not join to promote myself and that is why I have gotten along here. You are here to use us to set yourself up as a teacher of an art you know next to nothing about.

Do you see why you have gotten off on the wrong foot?

[Don Roley]

That's funny. Because like I said before, I'm from the Genbukan and was immediately able to jump in with Bujinkan with no problem. Of course there were disagreements, but when is there not.

In fact I've trained with my multi-Dan sensei's sensei before, and was told things differently than what my sensei told me. It wasn't much of a difference...but enough to start an argument over who does it right and who does it wrong.

I think I read something by Hatsumi Masaaki saying that senseis should be considered more as guides along the path...not absolutists. I read that Steven K. Hayes even REQUIRES his students to train in something in addition to Ninjutsu as part of their Ninjutsu training. I don't know if that is true, but I can understand it.

Speaking of which, what do you think of Mixed Martial Arts? Do you think they all do it wrong, compounding each other's mistakes in that none of them are pure? Or do you believe as I do, and others have told me that you quickly find out what works and what doesn't when you try it out?

As with software, it'll either work or it won't. By the way, are you afraid that I can't teach someone how to do seiza rei? I might impart bad habbits?

All of the above is merely your attempt to justify what you want to do. I don't know where to start with all the problems. Nor do I think you really want to learn, just teach. So my pointing out all the problems with what you have written would be like throwing gold coins to a cat.

[Webmaster]

That would be stupid because there are old posts that serve as good reference.
As will this thread for many years to come. :D

And that Mark James of Pensacola Florida, is another reason why we enforce the real name rule.