Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees

[Cliff Hargrave]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html

Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees
Freedom of expression or cultural disrespect on Cinco de Mayo?
By GEORGE KIRIYAMA
Updated 6:13 AM PDT, Thu, May 6, 2010

NBC Bay Area

On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.

Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principal's office.

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts "incendiary" that would lead to fights on campus.

"They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," Dominic Maciel, Galli's friend, said.

The boys really had no choice, and went home to avoid suspension. They say they're angry they were not allowed to express their American pride. Their parents are just as upset, calling what happened to their children, "total nonsense."

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.

"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican Heritage Day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, said. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."

As for an apology, the boys and their families say, "fat chance."

"I'm not going to apologize. I did nothing wrong," Galli said. "I went along with my normal day. I might have worn an American flag, but I'm an American and I'm proud to be an American."

The five boys and their families met with a Morgan Hill Unified School District official Wednesday night. The district released a statement saying it does not agree with how Live Oak High School administrators handled this incident.

The boys will not be suspended and they were told they can go back to school Thursday. They may even wear their red, white, and blue colors again, but this time, the day after Cinco de Mayo, there will be no controversy.
First Published: May 6, 2010 1:22 AM PDT

[dao]

One wonders if there would be problem with American Flag Tees on St. Patrick's Day :rolleyes:

[Webmaster]

The level of political correctness in our society will be the death of us. This is really getting stupid.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I have no doubt the kids all wore those shirts strictly to create a reaction. However the problem, in my opinion, is why it would create a reaction to begin with. It's not like they wore a French flag, which was their enemy during the battle of Puebla, which is where the celebration comes from.

Btw, history for those who don't know, France invaded over debt the Mexican Government owed them. It was originally England, Spain, and France together but England and Spain quickly pulled out. The battle of Puebla (1862) was the only battle Mexico won and they actually lost the war. French troops occupied them until they withdrew in 1866. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

[dao]

Sadly, if they wore the French flag tees (in the US) probably only a few people would reconize the French flag so I doubt it'd be a problem. As a society, we'd be so much better off if we could base our worth on what we do and not on other people's reactions.

[Jay Bell]

Unreal...I agree, the PC movement is making this country (and others) into wussies. The other side of it (living just north of Mexico) is there is a white supremacist group here in Phoenix, swastikas and all, who are fighting that Cinco de Mayo is a racist holiday and they're trying to get it banned.

I'm pretty convinced that people are just stupid.

[David Craik]

Only in America can you get into trouble for wearing the flag of the very soil you're standing on. If the 'Mexican Americans' don't like it they can damn well go back there.

The funniest bit for me is that you go most places in Mexico, they don't even do anything for Cinco De Mayo. A cab driver in Tijuana once told me that they consider it little more than an excuse for gringos to come down there and get drunk.

[kbarrett]

I don't care whether it's cinco de mayo or any other day, if these kids want to wear t-shirts with the American Flag, then the should have that right and nobody sould tell them other wise. Roberts right this political corrrectness and righteousness in this country is going to bring us all to our knees, and it started with Obama apologining to the world for how the people of the United States live their lifes, isn't telling these kid to remove their American Flag t-shirts a racial act in it's self. What happened to being proud Americans, isn't this what many fought and died for over the last 200 years, we're Americans lets start acting like Americans, not let others bring this great country of ours to it's knees with all this political righteous bull.

Ken Barrett

[Dennis Monk]

This is just about the dumbest thing I have seen in a while. Yes, they wore these clothes to get a reaction. I think that even they had to suprised that they would be sent home from school for it. My parents would have thrown a fit over this.
The bandana thing I can understand, but to tell a kid that they should remove, or turn inside out, a shirt because the American flag theme would offend people living IN THIS COUNTRY is beyond stupid.

[Jay Bell]

Something just occurred to me. Texas and California both are very independent places as far as American states go, Texas being much more so. The odd thing is, much of the things that Texas does as independent as it is reinforces itself as American. I don't see the same in California. Maybe I'm just not immersed in California, but it seems like anytime something like this shows up in the news, it's going against being an American.

Thoughts?

[doubleouch]

Principal was in a precarious position. He had to balance speech rights against possible escalation to violence. He probably could have handled it better but I don't think he was making any judgement calls on the wearing of flags. Just trying to keep fights to a minimum. Easy to wave your flags around if you are not in the trenches doing the hard work of educating our children. Sounds like he may have kept the students from sustaining a beating. He could have used it as a teachable moment and talked to the students about appropriate ways of expressing their political views while keeping themselves safe. Not that wearing a flag is inappropriate, but inciting hatred on school campus in the name of free speech may not be cool. We all know the wearing of the flag wasn't saying America is awesome. It was saying go back to Mexico...

[doubleouch]

Oh, I wondered how long it would take for someone to blame Obama... By the way, there is no free speech in public schools. What students can say and can wear is controlled. This is nothing new. You guys should not be so naive to think that a group of students wearing American flag gear on Cinco de Mayo is the same as wearing it any other day. It's obvious that the message on THIS day was all about and anti immigration sentiment. Ask yourself why they picked this particular day? Of course they wanted to incite the Mexican American students. I'd have a hard time believing otherwise. I am glad that they are proud Americans and love their country. I just don't think waving the flag in the faces of the Mexican American students was the best choice in expressing it.

[Erik]

Kenneth, this has nothing to do with Obama and he was right to go apologize for Bush's (and the rest of our) misdeeds. Some visible national self-accountability will keep us alive better than invading Iraq.

But you're dead-on about the self-destructiveness of PC idiocy. Don't get me started about the thought-nazis in the universities and press or the BS that passes as "higher" education. That's for another thread, though....

[Cliff Hargrave]

We know why they picked this day and I said above they were trying to get a reaction. As far as a teachable moment, how about the school teaches the Mexican kids not to be offended by the flag of the country that has taken them in and offered them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How about teaching them not to be gang members?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/07/tensions-high-california-high-school-following-flag-flap/

My favorite quote

"More than 200 Hispanic students reportedly skipped class on Thursday and marched to school district headquarters while chanting "we want respect" and "si se puedes" -- "yes we can" -- the Morgan Hill Times reported."

Priceless.........

[Webmaster]

Kenneth, this has nothing to do with Obama and he was right to go apologize for Bush's (and the rest of our) misdeeds. Some visible national self-accountability will keep us alive better than invading Iraq.
Those apologies haven't keep us safe from having three terrorism attempts in the year and a half that President Obama has been in office has it? Measure that against the ZERO attempts in the seven years following 9/11. So who was that that President again following 9/11? :t2:

[Erik]

I'm with you, Cliff. How about making them feel like Americans (rhetorical question), like there is no us and them here.

You know what I'd really like to see? Shirts with a US and Mexican flag together, or hanging the two flags together in the hallway, perhaps tied together or with some other symbol that shows togetherness that is more creative than I can think of right now.

It's hard being a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant. I live with this every day. But the trick, I think, is showing them togetherness, that this is their home and that we're their neighbors and countrymen (supposing they're legal, of course, be that work or asylum visa, residency, new citizens, etc.)

Robert - did we have zero attempts? I thought Homeland Security (and other agencies) were catching lots of people. Seems that this one just made it further and into the mainstream press. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

[Webmaster]

Robert - did we have zero attempts? I thought Homeland Security (and other agencies) were catching lots of people. Seems that this one just made it further and into the mainstream press. Correct me if I am wrong on this.
Catching is one thing, and that's what DHS is suppose to do. Actually having a real attempts (that actually happens and people are killed or nearly so), in the case of the current Administration, but none during the final seven Bush years, is a very big difference.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Two of the kid's shirts were TapOut shirts!! :)4223


:D

[David Craik]

I'm with you, Cliff. How about making them feel like Americans (rhetorical question), like there is no us and them here.

You know what I'd really like to see? Shirts with a US and Mexican flag together, or hanging the two flags together in the hallway, perhaps tied together or with some other symbol that shows togetherness that is more creative than I can think of right now.

You know, I've believed for a long time that some of the things this country does and says to promote racial and cultural pride and identity are the very things that divide us as a nation. Instead of thinking of ourselves as simply 'Americans' we reinforce this division and clique-ishness by calling ourselves 'Mexican-Americans', 'African-Americans', 'Irish-Americans' and the like.

Pride in your ancestors and origin is fine and dandy, but I think a lot of people overlook what their home is and who they are now. I grew up in classrooms filled with immigrant Portuguese, Czechs, English, Italians, Germans and several other nationalities - far more variety than I've ever seen anywhere in the US. Yet public institutions didn't do anything to commemorate or celebrate other countries and everyone pretty much got along just fine.

I have no doubt these students wore this attire to get a reaction, and a pretty foolhardy move it was. But in reality Cinco de Mayo should be officially meaningless in the United States in the first place.

There is 'us and them' because they choose for there to be 'us and them', and we reinforce this by kow-towing to foreign cultures at every turn in the name of political correctness. They pull crap like this walkout because we tolerate such foolishness. I would expel the lot of them.

That does it, since I'm of Scottish ancestry next Sept 11th I'm not getting P.O.'ed at Al Queda, I'm getting P.O.'ed at anyone wearing a Union Jack. That's the anniversary of the Battle of Stirling Bridge.

[Don Roley]

We know why they picked this day and I said above they were trying to get a reaction. As far as a teachable moment, how about the school teaches the Mexican kids not to be offended by the flag of the country that has taken them in and offered them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How about teaching them not to be gang members?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/07/tensions-high-california-high-school-following-flag-flap/

My favorite quote

"More than 200 Hispanic students reportedly skipped class on Thursday and marched to school district headquarters while chanting "we want respect" and "si se puedes" -- "yes we can" -- the Morgan Hill Times reported."

Priceless.........


Mine was this,


Police have been told to be on alert for gang-related retaliation against the boys, according to Ken Jones, whose stepson, Daniel Galli, was one of the students who refused to turn their T-shirts inside-out when asked by a vice principal on Wednesday.

I think it kind of points to a mentality within the hispanic community in the area. Some of them really do seem to think that California is still part of Mexico.

[starkjudo]

Mine was this,



I think it kind of points to a mentality within the hispanic community in the area. Some of them really do seem to think that California is still part of Mexico.

I think it's more that they want it back and are trying everything they can to make it so.

[David Craik]

And mine was this:


"The issue was, there was nothing going on," Jones told Fox News on Friday. "There was no sense of violence at all amongst the students, there was no conversation, there was no bullying."


So it seems to me that the asst. principal - a guy named Miguel Rodriguez, no less - caused the uproar in the first place by making an issue out of it.

[starkjudo]

And mine was this:



So it seems to me that the asst. principal - a guy named Miguel Rodriguez, no less - caused the uproar in the first place by making an issue out of it.

I hadn't heard the name yet. That could explain a whole lot.

[kbarrett]

I also herd that it was the asst principal that started this whole thing because he thought it was ok for one set of students to honor their country and flag, but it wasn't ok for the for these kids to honor the American Flag and their country. Hey I have and idea, if they love their country and their Flag then why don't they go back to their country and they can honor their flag there. The Flag for this country is Red, White and Blue and it has been for over 200 years, and its' those colors the Franics Scott Key wrote our national anthem for and it's this same flag that's been fought for more times than one can count.

Ken Barrett

[dao]

Mine was this,



I think it kind of points to a mentality within the hispanic community in the area. Some of them really do seem to think that California is still part of Mexico.



No doubt some do. Of course, some people think they are Santa Claus :up:.

Wearing the Ameican flag tees was probably not the nicest thing to do and perhaps was irritating but as long as they weren't directly being confrontational it should have been left at that. I think we all need to reconize that a***holes come in all colors and cool people come in colors.

I have had my fair share of interactions with obnoxious "proud" hispanics - for instance, many years ago I was attempting to teach canoeing to a group of solely spanish students, who as soon they were in the canoes were behaving badly -playing "bumper" canoes and roughly only a third of them could swim (I know because I'd given them a swimming test earlier in the week). Meanwhile, the teacher was lecturing me on how wonderful it was that they had pride in their culture- I don't think she had any clue about how offensive she was being. It was the only canoeing class that I ended early that summer- they complained about me. However, as I told my boss I'd rather be a "racist" then have someone drown on my watch. And then there was the hispanic lady who thought the way to stay employed was to seduce with your boss instead of doing her job :adult:. She didn't last that long. I have also have had a few conversations with mexican gang members. I've also met hispanic keds who were dressed like thugs but on thier way home from prep school. I've also seen hispanic extended familes living together and sleeping in shifts because there weren't enough beds. I've also met some lovely hipanic folks whose family have lived on the same piece of land from a time before California was a state. I've also met immigrants from Mexico who are darling, wonderful, educuated people. And often they are people who get the most upset with illegal immigrants.

So I think making generalizations besd on color is not a smart thing to do.

[Don Roley]

So I think making generalizations besd on color is not a smart thing to do.

Hence the use of the term "some". :wink2:

[Mekugi]

To be honest with you, I thought this was an internet hoax. I actually thought this must be some kind of joke. Really...are people this stupid? Therefore, because the School System has absolutely no common sense, does not allow students to practice their given right to freedom of speech, I suggest that we Celebrate: "May 6th - Two Months after the Battle of the Alamo Observation Day".

[tgace334]

I am glad that they are proud Americans and love their country. I just don't think waving the flag in the faces of the Mexican American students was the best choice in expressing it.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this???

Mexican-AMERICAN!!!! Fer chrissakes!!! Is it not THEIR FLAG TOO?

[Mekugi]

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this???

Mexican-AMERICAN!!!! Fer chrissakes!!! Is it not THEIR FLAG TOO?

You're right....we should change that moniker. AMERICAN would be fine...works for me...

[David Craik]

For some, apparently it's only their flag while enjoying the United States and the opportunities it provides. Otherwise their flag is that of La Raza.

[Tripitaka of AA]

In Northern Ireland, there are "traditional" marches on certain days, parades that feature marching bands and smartly dressed people sporting orange-coloured sashes. They celebrate victories and honour the fallen, from various conflicts that took place many years ago. In my lifetime they have generated and encouraged more violence than any other event. The sectarian division within the city of Belfast is spotlighted and all the good work that goes on during the year is thrown away each time the marching season returns.

I understand that there are a variety of reasons why people feel they must continue the traditional marches - and a variety of reasons why other people believe they should stop. The arguments for and against don't always go according to which "side" the speaker is on. Every year the marching season comes back.. and every year the tensions rise again.

I sometimes despair at the way humans seem to find new ways to bring conflict to the surface. Fortunately there are sometimes bright and compassionate people who find solutions to these problems. With regard to the school situation, I wonder what the "right way" should have been, some of the responses to this thread have shown some of the knee-jerk reactions, and some have sought out better ways to avoid the situation escalating. I shall be interested to see how this problem is tackled at the school next year.

I would have allowed the stars and stripes to be worn. Then, if people got upset about it, I would have referred them to the history of the day as per Cliff's post. But then, things seem so simple from my armchair.

[Abbax8]

Only in America can you get into trouble for wearing the flag of the very soil you're standing on. If the 'Mexican Americans' don't like it they can damn well go back there.

The funniest bit for me is that you go most places in Mexico, they don't even do anything for Cinco De Mayo. A cab driver in Tijuana once told me that they consider it little more than an excuse for gringos to come down there and get drunk.

I heard Linda Chavez commenting on this incident, two of the kids who wore American flags are Mexican-Americans.

The principle is dead wrong on this and the kids who claim Cinco de Mayo is their holiday, well, that is B.S. I'm Irish and don't care who celebrates St. Patrick's Day. I'm Christian yet I don't care if Blacks want to celebrate Kwanzaa. Tolerence goes both ways.

Dennis

[David Craik]

I heard Linda Chavez commenting on this incident, two of the kids who wore American flags are Mexican-Americans.

Just when you think the incident couldn't get any stupider...

As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a 'Mexican-American'. You're either an American or you're not. Whether your skin is black, white, brown, red, or yellow makes no difference. That's real integration. I don't run around calling myself a "South-African American" or a "Scottish-German-American".


The principle is dead wrong on this and the kids who claim Cinco de Mayo is their holiday, well, that is B.S. I'm Irish and don't care who celebrates St. Patrick's Day. I'm Christian yet I don't care if Blacks want to celebrate Kwanzaa. Tolerence goes both ways.

I agree, though why 'Kwanzaa' - a bogus pseudo-African holiday dreamed up by a convicted felon while in prison for torturing women - is recognized in any way is beyond me.

I didn't know you were born in Ireland, Dennis.

[dao]

I heard Linda Chavez commenting on this incident, two of the kids who wore American flags are Mexican-Americans.

The principle is dead wrong on this and the kids who claim Cinco de Mayo is their holiday, well, that is B.S. I'm Irish and don't care who celebrates St. Patrick's Day. I'm Christian yet I don't care if Blacks want to celebrate Kwanzaa. Tolerence goes both ways.

Dennis

I agree the principal was wrong but I think most of the problem, as usual, was how the media reported it. They found and reported the most extreme views of the students and then reported them as if they were only ones.

[Don Roley]

I agree the principal was wrong but I think most of the problem, as usual, was how the media reported it. They found and reported the most extreme views of the students and then reported them as if they were only ones.

Well, considering that hundreds seem to have taken part in the protests, that may be understandable.

Has there been any cases of hispanic students making statements saying that the protestors were overreacting?

[dao]

Not that I'm aware of. But those wouldn't be "newsworthy".


http://cbs5.com/local/rally.american.flag.2.1682186.html

[shinbushi]

The 200 illegal and illegal supporters were shouting si se puede and Mexico Mexico. Don't be fooled it is a foreign invasion.