View Full Version : How would you handle this situation #2
Joe Hardwick
01-27-2003, 10:02
Here is another scenario that could happen to anyone and I would like to hear how people would handle it. I will try to be specific with the description and I do realize that it depends on the everything happening. Here is the scenario: You are at an event (sport, festival, etc)with many people around and a man bumps you. You think nothing of it but he does and turns around and gets in front of you and begins to ask you if you have a problem. He is very angry and irrate. He is in your face and he is pointing his finger at you. He then grabs the lapel of your shirt with one hand and uses his other hand to point at you. He has only one person with him who is standing behind him with a smile on his face. There are many other people around but no one has taken notice as of yet or does not want to. It is an open area so there is nothing between the two of you. 50 feet away there are tables, chairs, glasses and other items. What would you do? I am not looking for advice but I want to see how people would handle this situation out of curiosity. If you want anymore details then let me know. Thanks. Joe
I'd aploggize for all the things I didn't do, and walk away.
First off, I'd avoid letting him grab me. If he did manage it, I'd warn him to let go. Past that, I'd say it's time to physically remove him from my shirt. He's probably not going to take kindly to it, so it would be time to deck him. Sorry it's not more peaceful, but I've been taught never to let someone get ahold of me. Once they do, they've proven they're a physical threat and need to be removed.
I think Bear has it right, once they lay their hand on you, all bets are off.
I agree, all bets are off; but I'm not starting a fight just because someone grabs my shirt :)
If someone grabs you, and you defend yourself, you didnt "start" the fight... you gained situational control and subdued an assailant.
Personally... If someone grabs me, Im gonna latch onto that hand and they arnt going to get it back. Ill punch, kick, throw, bite, or anything else I have to keep that hand... I mean, they GAVE it to me! Its mine now, I get to keep it!! If they want it back, they can ask for it politly or we can let the police decide who it belongs to :D
A little bit of a tounge in cheek answer? sure.
My point is though, just as others have said, all bets are off. They chose to physically engage me, violating my right to physical wellbeing, and as such, they void their right to the same. My actions, after gaining situational control, are condition dependent...
All he has done is grabbed and yelled. At this point, I'm still not feeling threatened to the point of needing to defend myself.If however he makes any indication of a strike, or if he doesn't relent....:up: well then, he's going to be in a lot of pain.
modern hapkido
01-28-2003, 09:52
and if he uses the pointing finger to poke your eye will you finally conclude that this is a seriuous attack?
modern hapkido
01-28-2003, 14:23
and if he uses the pointing finger to poke your eye will you finally conclude that this is a seriuous attack?
Ron Rompen
01-28-2003, 17:34
I sort of agree with Victor on this. Once he has grabbed ahold of you, he has initiated the attack.
Having said that, it is not (yet) time for a full-scale retaliation. I would (probably) grab the finger of the pointing hand (after all, he's offering it), and immobilize it with a joint lock of some kind.
From this point, there's all kinds of options that I can go with, depending on how it goes from there.
and if he uses the pointing finger to poke your eye will you finally conclude that this is a seriuous attack?
Nah, his finger wouldn't get anywhere near my eye :)
I said I'd apologize, I didn't say I'd let him assault me. In the eyes of the law, grabbing may be an assault, but in mine, it's not.
We just have our differences in handling the situation, that's all.
worndowndahnbonym
01-29-2003, 02:56
There was a whole set of techniques I learned for just this sort of situation. While I would do my best to defuse the situation with jokes, and apologies, if I had to I would defend myself.
A broken wrist leaves no questions, and serves in my book as an apology... or at least good enough.
ray brandle
H@pkid0ist
01-29-2003, 23:05
Hapkido has a whole slew of techniques from grabs. They are for controling or breaking. The moment a person touches you they have crossed the line. I think the first thing I would do is lock their elbow and wrist up, and then let them know, polietly that touching me was inapropriate, the bump was an accident, and that they should really be carefull the next time they decide to cop an attitude. You never know who you are messing with. If they guy he put his hands on were a cop then he would be arrested and charged with not just assault, but assaulting an officer. It wouldn't matter if he knew or not. Unwanted physical contact is assault. Assault me, I defent myself.
TkdWarrior
01-31-2003, 07:27
well personally when the fists r clinched it means WAR is on.. :D
but i'll normally not loose my mind n start lashing punchin/kickin on the person...
i'll go with bear that i'll not let anyone grab hold my collars/shirts/watever... if they did then he/she or his/her freinds r asking for trouble which'll end before they'll feel anything...
in an Event i might back up a bit but i m not sure...pretty much in the moment thing
I would have to respond in a reasonable but firm manner.
"Sorry I'm not that way inclined, though maybe if you bought me a few drinks...;) ;) "
Originally posted by Dragonfly
I agree, all bets are off; but I'm not starting a fight just because someone grabs my shirt :)
If he's grabbing your clothing (something which clearly states that he wants to control you) he's started the fight, now it's necessary to end it. Whether peacefully or violently.
Uraih, I guess I just don't agree that grabing my shirt is starting a fight; though I do agree that it is going to end. The gentleman can choose how he wants it to end: the easy way, or the really easy way;)
TenchuDude
02-01-2003, 02:08
Hey, once the guy has touched me or grabbed me, and violated my personal bubble, he gets it. Seriously, there is no reason for another person to touch you. And I am sure as all you fello MAists know, a finger is a serious weapon. I'd break his old and make him not want to tange with me again, nothing seriously damaging, but attention grabbing.
As on the other "how would you handle" -thread, there is a sort of assumption/information that the person talking or touching or trying to pick up fight is not alone: there is someone else, perhaps more than one. And I would like to remind that there is at least to type of predators hunting in packs in public events.
First, there's those adrenalinholics, trying to pick fight, not necessarily fair one. The picture goes like this: a small, tiny guy bumps you. He starts to call names, pushing you to chest, waving mid-finger on your face. On the moment you push him, you find yourself on ground and this first fellow's huge, I mean HUGE, friend is sitting on your chest and dancing his knuckles all around your face.
Second, there's pickpockets. Guy bumps you, perhaps spills some beer on your jacket and either apologizes or starts to pick fight. His friend comes and stirrs soup more, and either one of these fellows - or some third one - walks away with your wallet while situation cools down.
So, get the hand of you, get out of situation, check your belongings in first safe place...
Riku Ylönen
jeet kune do student
03-31-2005, 11:27
Here is another scenario that could happen to anyone and I would like to hear how people would handle it. I will try to be specific with the description and I do realize that it depends on the everything happening. Here is the scenario: You are at an event (sport, festival, etc)with many people around and a man bumps you. You think nothing of it but he does and turns around and gets in front of you and begins to ask you if you have a problem. He is very angry and irrate. He is in your face and he is pointing his finger at you. He then grabs the lapel of your shirt with one hand and uses his other hand to point at you. He has only one person with him who is standing behind him with a smile on his face. There are many other people around but no one has taken notice as of yet or does not want to. It is an open area so there is nothing between the two of you. 50 feet away there are tables, chairs, glasses and other items. What would you do? I am not looking for advice but I want to see how people would handle this situation out of curiosity. If you want anymore details then let me know. Thanks. Joe
I believe the first thing i would do is try to talk him down and avoid a fight all together. and of course if this didnt work i would perform a bent wrist lock/takedown as for his friend i would try my best to keep the agresser between me and his friend and if i have to i would deal with him when the time arouse
SteyrAUG
03-31-2005, 11:49
I think Bear has it right, once they lay their hand on you, all bets are off.
+1 I'd rather not be at the mercy of other people's good intentions or lack of.
SteyrAUG
03-31-2005, 11:52
All he has done is grabbed and yelled. At this point, I'm still not feeling threatened to the point of needing to defend myself.If however he makes any indication of a strike, or if he doesn't relent....:up: well then, he's going to be in a lot of pain.
I understand what you mean but at the same time if you ever find yourself in that situation with anyone with any real skill you are at a serious disadvantage.
If you let someone like yourself that close you might be in a lot of trouble. Think what you could do if given that kind of vantage point.
poppedje
03-31-2005, 12:14
I would also try to avoid the fight, even in this situation. That's not for his sake or for the laws, but for mine, because I feel that once I defend myself, I'm lose. And that means the guy is going to leave with at least a couple of bones broken.
Fortunately, I don't really know for sure how far I'd go if I had to defend myself. I even had this guy trying to seriously beat me up once. It lasted for like 5 minutes, and all the time I just stood there. He just couldn't punch hard enough. I must've taken about twenty but all on my abdomen. At some point the guy grabbed me and his friends were shouting he should lift his knee up in my crotch, and I just stood there. He didn't do anything anyhow. At some point I just decided I should walk away because it was getting boring.
The point is, I will probably only defend myself in the most extreme cases. When someone like the above mentioned tries to beat me up but I notice that he just doesn't have what it takes, I will not fight him as he is not worth it. There is a downside on this however, and I'm aware of it. I probably will be convinced that I should defend myself at the point that he has already broken my nose or something :rolleyes: I might even be too peacefull for this world :p
DragonWolf
03-31-2005, 12:39
Jason H has my vote. I'd try to talk it through if that didn't work and he was getting more steamed, then I'd grab the hand grabbing me and knife hand to the neck or One of the Hapkido maneuvors I've been taught. My instructor realizes that a lot of the techniques in TKD aren't going to help in a confrontation so he likes to show us some Hapkido moves and various other simple self defense moves. I work with Police officers a lot and they tend to like the knife hand to the neck the best.
DragonWolf
03-31-2005, 12:43
I would also try to avoid the fight, even in this situation. That's not for his sake or for the laws, but for mine, because I feel that once I defend myself, I'm lose. And that means the guy is going to leave with at least a couple of bones broken.
Fortunately, I don't really know for sure how far I'd go if I had to defend myself. I even had this guy trying to seriously beat me up once. It lasted for like 5 minutes, and all the time I just stood there. He just couldn't punch hard enough. I must've taken about twenty but all on my abdomen. At some point the guy grabbed me and his friends were shouting he should lift his knee up in my crotch, and I just stood there. He didn't do anything anyhow. At some point I just decided I should walk away because it was getting boring.
The point is, I will probably only defend myself in the most extreme cases. When someone like the above mentioned tries to beat me up but I notice that he just doesn't have what it takes, I will not fight him as he is not worth it. There is a downside on this however, and I'm aware of it. I probably will be convinced that I should defend myself at the point that he has already broken my nose or something :rolleyes: I might even be too peacefull for this world :p
I'm in the same spot as you, although I would have walked away before the first punch. Peace
GodofGamblers
03-31-2005, 19:24
If this happened in Jakarta, the first thing I would do would be to look behind me but being careful not to be sucker punched; no one ever attacks someone on his own. his friends are undoubtedly right behind me.
i would thus avoid a confrontation. while listening to him i would take the "casual guard" position. cross your arms and then put one finger on your chin, as if you are listening closely to what he is saying: actually, you are now essentially in a fighting stance. keeping your hands at your sides at this point would be dangerous.
if he were stabbing his finger into my chest i would not back up: back away to one side, thus taking away the advantage he might have of his friends hitting me from behind.
if you're really against getting into a fight (maybe the guy is a monster; maybe he's on drugs; maybe it's your brother's wedding you're at, etc), you can always lean forward and say to him:
"I'm undercover security for this event. Are you a troublemaker. Hold on, I'm going to go to the security station to check on something" (a bit lame but it may catch him off guard)
"I'm required to tell you by law that I have HIV; any contact with my blood could have serious consequences" (radical but it will stun him as you blend into the crowd)
"Yeah I bumped into you. When I carry my Glock nothing scares me. [raising your voice] What are you going to do about it ?" (reverse psychology)
If none of those work, grab his finger, and push down while sliding your rear foot back. It should take him to his knees.
If this happened in Jakarta, the first thing I would do would be to look behind me but being careful not to be sucker punched; no one ever attacks someone on his own. his friends are undoubtedly right behind me.
i would thus avoid a confrontation. while listening to him i would take the "casual guard" position. cross your arms and then put one finger on your chin, as if you are listening closely to what he is saying: actually, you are now essentially in a fighting stance. keeping your hands at your sides at this point would be dangerous.
if he were stabbing his finger into my chest i would not back up: back away to one side, thus taking away the advantage he might have of his friends hitting me from behind.
if you're really against getting into a fight (maybe the guy is a monster; maybe he's on drugs; maybe it's your brother's wedding you're at, etc), you can always lean forward and say to him:
"I'm undercover security for this event. Are you a troublemaker. Hold on, I'm going to go to the security station to check on something" (a bit lame but it may catch him off guard)
"I'm required to tell you by law that I have HIV; any contact with my blood could have serious consequences" (radical but it will stun him as you blend into the crowd)
"Yeah I bumped into you. When I carry my Glock nothing scares me. [raising your voice] What are you going to do about it ?" (reverse psychology)
If none of those work, grab his finger, and push down while sliding your rear foot back. It should take him to his knees.
If you're the God of Gamblers then I'm the Saint of Gamblers!!! :D
I like how you would handle a situation like this.
I wouldn't have done it this way because I don't think it's in my character to act like how you've described.
However, I'd like to say if it was me in the situation and I was nonchanantely going my way and this happened (i.e. I didn't have that "I have a problem with everyone" look on my face).
I think I'd try and be more careful at spotting this aggressor even before he got close to me. So that when he did close the distance and attempt to grab me, I'll not allow him.
Failing that and he did make physical contact, I'd like to think that I would immediately drop him to the floor or get him off me and increase maai (I don't mean by running away). That is why I think God of Gamblers' view of checking behind is good.
However, I'll most probably be taken off guard (as intended) and talk myself out of the situation.
But I feel that once he made an aggressive move towards me and touched me, it's their first sign of a sure attack (the pointing finger??).
If I did make a move, I have to be sure that I put 100% spirit into it.
poppedje
04-01-2005, 01:51
I was quite aware it was dangerous and all, but I just didn't want to fight him, and basically it's like this: I was at school that day, and I really couldn't leave that easily since about half the school had rounded up around usand wouldn't let me through. Therefore, it took some rugby like manoeuvres to walk away. And the inevitable "Sucker! You're scared! Get back here!". Then I just told him that if he wanted he could follow me outside and finish it off there. He didn't follow me... :cool:
Plus, at our school it works something like this: If you win, you are the bad guy. You beat him up and not the other way around, period. And that sucks :(
David Craik
04-01-2005, 04:29
Think I'd go with Jason's method and offer to buy him a beer. If that didn't work, a bit would depend on his size and the way he is standing.
If he's a really big mutha, I'd probably let him check the bore of my 9mm and ask him; "We aren't going to hurt each other, now are we, mister?" :D
I was quite aware it was dangerous and all, but I just didn't want to fight him, and basically it's like this: I was at school that day, and I really couldn't leave that easily since about half the school had rounded up around usand wouldn't let me through. Therefore, it took some rugby like manoeuvres to walk away. And the inevitable "Sucker! You're scared! Get back here!". Then I just told him that if he wanted he could follow me outside and finish it off there. He didn't follow me... :cool:
Plus, at our school it works something like this: If you win, you are the bad guy. You beat him up and not the other way around, period. And that sucks :(
Your situation has nothing to do with the theoretical scenario of this thread. I say this because what you described was a school setting where, I am only guessing here, that the possibility of someone getting knifed in the back is not very high.
It was after all, a school “playground” setting and a teacher can come in and break it up anytime. The theoretical scenario describes a complete stranger in a public place attempting to provoke a reaction with real intention to cause harm and possibly criminal type activity.
Thus your “bad day” at school is nowhere near the scale of the said scenario and does not really compare (apart from the provocation from the other party).
Therefore your response of “I won’t fight the other person” in the context of your “school” setting does not hold much meaning in a situation where the other person may have already made up their mind to hit you to cause damage.
Hi all,
You guys/girls mention some good ways off dealing with a situation like that.
At a recent seminar someone asked sensei what to do, he was in a similar situation: being bullied at work by some guy who would litterally push him around.
Sensei said to him
"Your body is a house and around your house is a fence, when someone gets to close to you (inside the fence) he is tresspassing. When he on top of that is agressive, you have to take him down. First take a step back if possible, when the agression keeps comming, shout something like 'hey let go of me' or 'I don't want to fight' or ... So bystanders will see it was not you who started the agression. Then take him down."
If I ever get the skills, that's the way I would handle it :wink2:
be well,
GodofGamblers
04-02-2005, 22:46
StanLee, you are the saint of gamblers? nice to meet you Stephen, he he
i agree with you: i could think of 100 ways to handle the situation but in reality i would probably be caught off guard, stumble away somehow and wonder , "what the hell was that? what just happened?", as i usually do:)
bloodymonkey117
04-02-2005, 22:58
I think i'd politely ask him to stop holding my shirt. Then i'd headbutt him.
JessePasley
04-03-2005, 03:25
Do I Get To Have Guns Or A Special Ring With A Spike On It For This Fantasy Role-play?
I'd say something along the lines of "Sorry, I don't understand. What are you upset about?" (Emphasis on formal language instead of colloqual "What's up your butt?" or "What's the deal?")
Then, after hearing threats, "You've just threatened and assaulted me in front of 50 witnesses. If you don't let go, one or both of us goes to the hospital and you go to court."
elder999
04-03-2005, 20:47
First I'd apologize, forming a "fence" and stepping back.
Then, in a very loud voice, I'd say ""Mister, please stop. You're scaring me."
If he didn't back off, then, based on past behavior, I'd probably secure his arm, chinjab or elbow him hard, and not stop hitting him until he was on the ground.
Gene Williams
04-03-2005, 21:24
Once someone puts his hands on me, talking is over until I have him under control. Then we see what happens.
elder999
04-03-2005, 21:36
Once someone puts his hands on me, talking is over until I have him under control. Then we see what happens.
I pretty much agree, but with the legalities involved, saying something to the effect that you're scared is the only prudent legal strategy, and good heiho to boot.
The way I look, though, odds are good that if someone does this to me, they're looking for a fight-I'm not ugly or anything, but I've come to accept that I'm a little intimidating in appearance-so I'd probably go right to the "I'm scared" routine.....I don't have any illusions about my capability to have them under control until they're asleep.
StanLee, you are the saint of gamblers? nice to meet you Stephen, he he
i agree with you: i could think of 100 ways to handle the situation but in reality i would probably be caught off guard, stumble away somehow and wonder , "what the hell was that? what just happened?", as i usually do:)
I don't require xray specs!
I can see through your cards with my special powers! :D
not stop hitting him until he was on the ground.
You're nicer than I am. Why stop hitting him when he's on the ground? Now you can use gravity too! :D
jakmak52
04-04-2005, 19:38
When someone grabs my lapel or any other part of clothing, with a pointing finger in my face, I feel threatened and assaulted, I'm taking him downtown :D If someone in the nearby vicinity doesn't notice this going down, I must be on another planet :rolleyes: And I just might smack his buddy behind him smiling, just for good measure :laugh:
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