Mineral water and hydration

[Erik]

Something curious is going on. I've been drinking about 1.5 - 2 liters of sparkling water (specifically Talking Rain which my company provides us) and yet have been having dehydration headaches and been peeing frequently but very dark yellow which I believe is an indication of dehydration or lots and lots of Vitamin B12 in the system.

Is there something about mineral water (other than being soooo un-manly :laugh:) that doesn't get absorbed like regular water?

Or am I just not drinking enough liquids for the hot weather we're having?

[DragonMind]

I've not heard of anything specific to mineral water but then again I haven't looked since I don't like it. How much are you drinking?

[Erik]

1.5 - 2 liters per day. It's free in the office and it's not soda.

(I'm just waiting for one of our Texan pals to make some jokes about San Francisco, mineral water... you see where it's going :laugh:)

[dao]

(I'm just waiting for one of our Texan pals to make some jokes about San Francisco, mineral water... you see where it's going :laugh:)

Scary thing is I also drink about a liter to 2 liters a day. Maybe it is a San Francisco thing :laugh:

[Mark Jordan]

It's probably the plastic container that's causing it. Plastics leach chemicals which are potentially dangerous to our health. By drinking water from plastic bottles, people will ingest these chemicals putting our health at risk.

That's why it's better to drink beer - they never put it in plastic;)

[Tripitaka of AA]

I was going to make a stupid comment. Now I don't need to.

Erik, has your water intake increased dramatically, Or have you always taken a lot of fluid? Is this something that is worth getting checked by a medical professional? The drink-a-lot, pee-a-lot thing is one of those signs that doctors love to ask about (what do I know?.. next to nothing).

On the other hand, I have been told by reliable experts in their field, that all mineral water is injected with a colourless, odourless and flavourless compound that can be detected by spectroscopic analysis from millions of miles away. Apparently the Tzugargs of Aeerk have been monitoring us for millennia.

[Rasputin]

Something curious is going on. I've been drinking about 1.5 - 2 liters of sparkling water (specifically Talking Rain which my company provides us) and yet have been having dehydration headaches and been peeing frequently but very dark yellow which I believe is an indication of dehydration or lots and lots of Vitamin B12 in the system.

Is there something about mineral water (other than being soooo un-manly :laugh:) that doesn't get absorbed like regular water?

Or am I just not drinking enough liquids for the hot weather we're having?

My question is: you call them "dehydration headaches"; this seems a bit specific. How are you narrowing them down to be sure they are related to dehydration?

Sparkling Water is not necessarily the same thing as mineral water. Sparkling water is effervescent, usually by injecting it with CO2. This forms carbonic acid from the dissolved CO2, and it might or might not cause problems independant of the dissolved mineral content of the water. Most likely harmless aside from tooth erosion, but it could affect your thirst.

There are various tests to determine if you are dehydrated, aside from the color of your urine. One which I have seen is to pinch a fold of skin on the back of your hand and see how long it takes to disappear once you let go. It should spring back quickly.

Also, how much exercise are you getting?

Are you using any creatine products?

Lastly, the more carbohydrate you eat, even hearthealthywholegrains, the more issues you will have with hydration, since insulin pushes the kidneys to retain water.

[Erik]

I figure it's dehydration because it hurts like when I go headaches from being dehydrated and it goes away when I drink .25 liters or more of regular water. Almost instantly.

Recent changes that could contribute: started working out again, reducing carbs (and thinking of you, Dave, when I push the bread or rice away...), and I noticed I smell like stale sweat sometimes. If I smell it then others must, too... :eek: but perhaps I'm sweating more out than I realize.

Last night it was 92 degrees so I may be sweating a lot more at night than I realize. That's water out without really noticing it.

Anyway, I'm trying something different. My favorite drink in the whole world (it isn't beer...) is lemonade so I brought a bottle of lemon juice and a 1/2 liter beer mug from my old bar in Austria (aka: "Stein" though that actually means "stone" or "rock" and has nothing to do with a cup or mug of any sort :wink:) to the office and will be hydrating with that and non-mineral water. (Don't worry - fake sugar, and not a lot of it.)

We'll see if this makes a difference.

David (UK Dave) the reason that peeing and drinking is interesting to doctors is that it is a symptom of diabetes. I'm a little concerned since I put on about 50 friggin' pounds (ca. 22 kg or just over 3 stones) in the past year (and I look and feel like @&#$). Just had a blood test and I don't have diabetes but I'm at risk for it.

For this reason as well as curiousity about whether sparkling water works like water, I am paying attention to this.

[Rasputin]

I am not one of those who feel that you need to push fluids all day long. You are the product of many generations of successful humans who managed to make it here without drowing themselves in mineral water at every opportunity, sparkling or otherwise. Your body will indeed prompt you to drink when it is time.

Now, that being said, you are subjecting your body to pressures which your forebears never did. Fluctuations in blood sugar will (as I mentioned earlier) wreak havok with your hydration. Carrying 50 extra pounds (on top of whatever else you may have been carrying around before) exerts its toll.

If you want to start using www.fitday.com every day, I can help you narrow down other causes. Send me a PM with your link to your page and I will check it each day.

If you decide to go all the way and start eating a primal diet, the weight will go away and your chances of coming down with diabetes will be zero. I can send you my info pack on that if you like as well.

[Erik]

What about cholestorol and triglycerides in the blood on your diet, David?

[Rasputin]

What about cholestorol and triglycerides in the blood on your diet, David?

Cholesterol is a non-issue. Raised serum cholesterol is a sign of other processes in the body, since cholesterol is an antioxidant and a repair molecule used in every tissue. The more of it in your diet, the less your body needs to make to meet its own needs. Outside of familial hypercholesteremia, there is no relationship between raised cholesterol levels and heart disease or any other disease, in point of fact, LOWERED cholesterol is a strong predictor for cancer, depression, and a host of other problems which lower overall lifespan.

A diet high in saturated and monounsaturated fats, with almost no polyunsaturated fats (and those that you do get are Omega-3), will raise HDL, lower LDL, and the LDL that remains will be large and 'fluffy", protective against atherosclerosis.


As for triglycerides, they are indeed a better predictor for heart disease (specifically, their ratio to your HDL; you want them less than your HDL score). Triglycerides are created from both dietary fats AND carbohydrates, but far more from the latter, since your body cannot handle raised blood sugar as it is toxic, so the liver converts the excess to fats for storage in great quantities. It is not uncommon for triglycerides to plummet on a low-carb diet.

[dao]

Erik, some crbonated waters contain lots of sodium. Each brand is different so you have to check. Perhaps the salt in the carbonated water causing you to retain water.

[Rasputin]

http://www.talkingrain.com/products.asp?prodID=2

[Rasputin]

Watch the following video, Erik. It does a good job of explaining Cholesterol.

http://abundantlifechiro.blogspot.com/2008/07/cholesterol-myths_13.html

[DragonMind]

Eric, have you had a thyroid test done? I gained 40 lbs in two weeks a few years back and it was traced to a failing thyroid. May or may not be attributable to carbs but either way, it can cause rapid weight gain. If you've gained a good bit of weight you'd also likely be sweating more than you used to whether you notice it or not.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Erik. Glad you knew about the diabetes thing. Last thing I wanted to do was panic you about something. Only a professonal should be doing that. They love it.

[Erik]

Fair question, Barry. Just got the lab results from a physical - everything's fine except for triglycerides (256!!!) and LDL and VLDL, which are above acceptble by 10-20 points. No thyroid issue.

[Rasputin]

When and if you are ready to give LC/primal a fair shot, let me know, Erik. I can promise that if you work with me you will get back to a comfortable weight without hunger far faster than you would have thought, and you will get your health back as well.

[DragonMind]

I had the same kind of cholesterol numbers and the doc had me on statins. I dumped them and focused on a strict <30g/day carb diet for 3 months and cut the numbers drastically. Protein Power by Drs. Eades has the clearest and easiest to follow regimen I've seen. For a few weeks I actually carried a 1/8 cup measuring spoon and their book with me when I ate. It is really surprising to discover how small a proper portion of some foods are.

[Rasputin]

Dr. Eades' 6-week Cure to the Middle-Aged Middle is a refinement to their regular Protein Power regimen and well worth the read. Lots of good science in there.

[Erik]

I'm working on low-carb, only oil is olive, and, as my dad calls it, the infamous ELF diet.

What's ELF? Eat Less Food! I'm so friggin' hungry... but it's partially that I somehow don't have a full signal. I can eat for hours and never feel full (I can feel sick, though), so measuring carefully and being sure there is some protein in there is how I'm trying to approach this.

I'll look into what you describe, David & Barry.

[Rasputin]

I'm working on low-carb, only oil is olive, and, as my dad calls it, the infamous ELF diet.

What's ELF? Eat Less Food! I'm so friggin' hungry... but it's partially that I somehow don't have a full signal. I can eat for hours and never feel full (I can feel sick, though), so measuring carefully and being sure there is some protein in there is how I'm trying to approach this.

I'll look into what you describe, David & Barry.

There's no need for you to be hungry, Erik. Between the fuel you are carrying around in storage and getting rid of the sugar and starch which causes your blood sugar to go haywire in the first place, the hunger should disappear pretty quickly.

Some suggestions, since you seem to want to do things your own way instead of going full-bore with our advice:

1. Olive Oil, while a decent fat source, isn't the best. You need to put some saturated fats in there too. Butter and coconut milk/oil are awesome for that, and the MCTs that they contain are burned preferentially for energy, rather than being saved for storage.

2. As long as you keep carbs low (<30g/day is a great place to start), eat until you are no longer hungry. Seriously. Don't try to stuff yourself, but don't feel like you must deprive yourself either. The way to recover your healthy appetite is to learn to listen to your hunger signals, and walking around starving yourself isn't going to help in the long run.

3. I really do know what I am talking about here, from personal experience, from experience helping other people, and from research that others have done. If you want the benefit of my experience instead of trying to muddle through it, I can hook you up.

[Erik]

I believe that you know what you're talking about, Buddy! I am trying to follow your advice. There are a few goofy things about my digestion that require a bit of modification, though. That's what I was alluding to.

1) I have no full signal. Never have. It's a problem when I am not working out much. I'm always hungry - always have been. So deliberately reducing serving sizes is very important (and apparently I shock my sisters and wife with my portions).
2) Can't handle too much milk, so I stay away from butter, ice cream, and milk-based protein powders (which is a lot of them).
3) Isn't coconut milk/oil the worst for people's arteries? I love that Thai seafood soup, tom kha, or something like that, with the coconut milk broth. Heck, if it's not so bad for my triglycerides and cholesterol, I could eat it every day! So what's the deal with the side-effects of that kind of oil? Please clarify.
4) By oils, I was thinking more along the lines of forbidding fried food of any sort (except when we make Schnitzl at home) and salad dressings that aren't oil & vinegar types.

That's what I was thinking.

[Rasputin]

1) I have no full signal. Never have. It's a problem when I am not working out much. I'm always hungry - always have been. So deliberately reducing serving sizes is very important (and apparently I shock my sisters and wife with my portions).

I am TOTALLY the same way. I can eat enormous, prodigious portions of food. Ask Robert. But when the food is devoid of carbohydrate, it doesn't matter. You won't put it on as fat.


2) Can't handle too much milk, so I stay away from butter, ice cream, and milk-based protein powders (which is a lot of them).
Does this mean you are lactose intolerant? We can work around that. An intolerance to milk protein or milkfat is harder to accommodate, but it is doable.


3) Isn't coconut milk/oil the worst for people's arteries? I love that Thai seafood soup, tom kha, or something like that, with the coconut milk broth. Heck, if it's not so bad for my triglycerides and cholesterol, I could eat it every day! So what's the deal with the side-effects of that kind of oil? Please clarify.

Did you watch the linked video above? It spells out the cholesterol/saturated fat/heart disease situation nicely.

In ref: to coconut oil specifically:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/07/tropical-plant-fats-coconut-oil-part-i.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/08/tropical-plant-fats-coconut-oil-part-ii.html
http://wss.nourishingconnections.org/Education/Coconut%20and%20Its%20Affect%20on%20Cholesterol.pd f




4) By oils, I was thinking more along the lines of forbidding fried food of any sort (except when we make Schnitzl at home) and salad dressings that aren't oil & vinegar types.

Fry the schnitzel in bacon fat.

Send me a PM with your phone # and I will give you a call. It will be much faster.

[Erik]

Hi Buddy,

Yes, I'm lactose intolerant (I can read minds... :laugh:)

Haven't had a chance to watch your videos (yet). Very busy but they're earmarked.

Wife and her family won't touch pork. One more annoying work-around.

I'll PM you my number.

[Rasputin]

Best frying alternatives for those who are lactose intolerant and eschew pork:
coconut oil
Beef fat (buy a brisket and render the fat off it; store in the fridge)
Ghee (the lactose is separated off with the milk solids)
olive oil (low smoke point)

The Beef fat and the Ghee probably have the highest smoke points.

[Erik]

Ghee whiz.

What's ghee, anyway? We'll talk Sat. :)

[Rasputin]

What's ghee, anyway?

Now I know you haven't been reading all the threads :p

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?27540-Homemade-Coconut-Ghee

[DragonMind]

Eric, the biggest complaint from my Sweetie was how much she has to eat! I keep almonds and jerky and boiled eggs and small cans of tuna and a bunch of other stuff around for snacking any time I get hungry. As long as I count the carbs and stick with low/no carb items I can eat like a horse and still lose weight. But David is right, after a couple weeks you'll find that the low carb foods you eat rapidly satiate you and you won't be hungry all the time. I've reached the point where two meals a day and a small snack is all I eat. Some days; especially on the weekend, I might only eat once a day and I never feel deprived. My body has returned to the state where my natural metabolic processes are in control and they let me know when I need food. As a treat, I might have one dark chocolate truffle and because my taste buds are so much more responsive now, that one satisfies me because the flavor is so intense.

Come over to the Dark Side, we have better than cookies! ;)

Oh, and I've eaten with David...that boy can put away some groceries! He is banned from every All-You-Can-Eat in six states. :laugh:

[Erik]

Sorry - I remember that one now. Thanks for reminding me.

(Remember, I'm blonde.)

Barry - I'm working on it!

Had duck, shrimp, (okay, bread for sandwich - not good), salad, and nuts to eat today.

Tonight will be miso and sashimi. It'll be hard to avoid the rice but I'll manage.

Hey - what about dried fruit? Too much fructose? Obviously not low-carb, but I figured I'd ask.

[Rasputin]

Hey - what about dried fruit? Too much fructose? Obviously not low-carb, but I figured I'd ask.

Too much sugar. When you finally get down to the weight you want to stay at, you can add fruit back if you so desire, but dried fruit is like concentrated sugar. Look at the label for raisins some time, and keep in mind that you are striving for 30-50g of carbs per day, depending on the person. 1/4c of raisins has 31g sugar, of which only 2 are fiber. Ouch.

[Erik]

How much rice, measured as sushi pieces, is 30g of carbs, David?

[Rasputin]

That's a bit of a loaded question, Erik. The rice in sushi is pickled with a sugared vinegar, and that will contribute an unknown quantity of carbohydrate to the total amount. If it were just plain rice, 1 cup of cooked white rice has approximately 44g of carbohydrate. While that may not seem like a lot, keep in mind that the total amount of glucose circulating in your blood before a meal is around 1 tsp or 5g dry weight. The 44g of starch in the rice gets unzipped quickly starting with the amylase in your saliva as soon as it hits your mouth, and once it hits your bloodstream your liver will be working frantically to turn it into fat (circulating as triglycerides) for storage.

Assuming the bread you had in your sandwich for lunch was whole wheat slices, two of them have approximately 24g together.

I will send you some PDFs along with some other info, Erik, which can give you more information. I think I have your e-mail address here somewhere.