Arizona congressional representative killed

[Don Roley]

Gabrielle Giffords, a conservative Democratic who supported the troops and other causes like that was killed when she was shot in the head by a shooter who fired into the crowd.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/us_nm/us_usa_shooting_congresswoman

[Don Roley]

Correction, she is alive and was airlifted off for surgery.

There seems to be little information as to the shooter and his motives, but I see a lot of comments trying to put the blame on the GOP, tea party and various conservative voices in the media.

[Webmaster]

Senseless stuff like this is such a shame and I hope the Congresswoman survives and with little impairment. It's just a much of a shame that this will be exploited for political gain by politicians from all sides, but particularly the libs who want to silence those with dissenting views by any means possible.

[southernrock]

Correction, she is alive and was airlifted off for surgery.

There seems to be little information as to the shooter and his motives, but I see a lot of comments trying to put the blame on the GOP, tea party and various conservative voices in the media.

Then the folks on the left, who are trying that tactic, need to have the table turned on them.

See: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/01/arizona-shooter-jared-laughner-a-certified-nut.html

[Webmaster]

Yep, looks like this nutcase is a lefty nutcase, but it also looks like he may be involved with some anti-Semitic, racist group called American Renaissance (http://www.amren.com/). So while his rantings may be to the left, his associations appear to be also on the far-right. So "nutcase" may be the best description for this guy. Sadly, with the Obama Justice Department, we'll likely see an emphasis on his right-wing associations, and not those on the left, and the total politicization of this tragedy.

Oh and watch how Nancy Pelosi will find a way to blame Bush. :rolleyes:

[Don Roley]

This incident has gone to shown just how full of hate some folks on the left are. Before we know all the facts, they are trying to associate a guy known to have been called "A lefty", anti religious and a registered democrat with Right wing, Christian republicans. I have seen dozen of hints at killing folks like Sarah Palin in the last 24 hours. They don't seem to care about the facts. There must be several hundred, if not more, folks trying to just spread as much hate as they can in the hours after this incident.

The whole idea that this guy's action is anyone else's other than his own should not have any traction what so ever. If people want to talk about the influences of one side, how about that movie that come out when Bush was president about him getting assassinated? Do you hear anyone denounce that? How about the words of some politicians? Or for that matter, why doesn't anyone blame Al Gore for the unibomber?

And it is my observation that these types of folks that talk about conspiracy theories and such are not swayed by the general tone. Thanks to the internet, they can associate with folks just like themselves and encourage each other to greater bouts of lunacy. This guy was turned down for the military, described as mental by a few folks and talked about mind control. Was Robert Hinkly jr actions ever blamed on the folks that spoke out against Reagan, or was he just considered a lone nut? So how is this guy, even nuttier by the looks of things, any different?

Right now, anyone who dares to disagree with the president on any matter is in the same situation as the Jews after the Reichstag was burned down.

[David Craik]

I think the various groups already scurrying to gain political traction from the actions of this lunatic is disgusting. I see our old friends from the Westboro Baptist Church are already planning to picket the funerals of the victims as well.

This country has gone mad.

[Don Roley]

I see our old friends from the Westboro Baptist Church are already planning to picket the funerals of the victims as well.

Honest to Cuthulu, part of me wishes someone would blow them away when they did.

But if someone did, the defenders of the second amendment would be attacked. If nothing happened, everyone who thinks the constitution should be respected will be accused of being ok with what they do.

[Don Roley]

Interesting new aspect to the case from a news agency.


Court documents also show that Loughner had contact with Giffords in the past. Other evidence included a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007.

So this was not someone without contact with the victim other than what political pundits said. He had contact with her. Considering he was an utter whack job he may have felt betrayed by something she did. The whole blaming the right wing media takes a huge back seat to the fact that he had a three year relationships with her.

[Erik]

I heard the shooter went to Mountain View high school. Is there a MV in AZ, or is he transplanted from CA?

I ask because I went to MV High School here! As did my sisters who would be in the same class!

[southernrock]

Yep, looks like this nutcase is a lefty nutcase, but it also looks like he may be involved with some anti-Semitic, racist group called American Renaissance (http://www.amren.com/). So while his rantings may be to the left, his associations appear to be also on the far-right. So "nutcase" may be the best description for this guy. Sadly, with the Obama Justice Department, we'll likely see an emphasis on his right-wing associations, and not those on the left, and the total politicization of this tragedy.

Oh and watch how Nancy Pelosi will find a way to blame Bush. :rolleyes:

From what I've seen, Loughner doesn't appear to have a coherent political philosophy. My point is, IF political motivations are going to be ascribed to his actions, the smear and guilt by association game, can be played more than one way. According to a story in Politico, some Democrat strategists planned to try to pin the blame for this on the Tea Party movement, citing the Dick Morris/Bill Clinton strategy to blame the Oklahoma City Bombing on conservative talk radio.

[southernrock]

"Left Has A Fingerpointing Field Day After Arizona Shootings"

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41079

[Webmaster]

From what I've seen, Loughner doesn't appear to have a coherent political philosophy. My point is, IF political motivations are going to be ascribed to his actions, the smear and guilt by association game, can be played more than one way. According to a story in Politico, some Democrat strategists planned to try to pin the blame for this on the Tea Party movement, citing the Dick Morris/Bill Clinton strategy to blame the Oklahoma City Bombing on conservative talk radio.

Thanks for the link to the humanevents.com article in your last post Tim.

I agree that this nutcase doesn't have any coherent political philosophy, and just like the OKC bombing, the Dems/Libs are trying to hang this on their political opponents, particularly talk radio and the Tea Party. We are already seeing them spin this up and try and label the shooter as a "right-wing" nut, but that's just the mainstream media dutifully following the lead of their democrat masters. For instance, I previously mentioned Loughner's supposed association with the American Renaissance group, but it turns out that there is none. From what I have heard, the "suggestion" that he might be associated with American Renaissance was made very shortly after the shooting by DHS... the "Obama DHS" that is. Yet, this "suggestion" was made without any proof or evidence, and of course the media picked up on their "cue" from the Administration and have labeled Loughner as a right-wing nut. The funny part is that evidence to the contrary shows that he was a left-wing nut and even a registered Democrat.

Finally, someone needs to tell the Sheriff of Pima Country to shut the hell up. I understand that he is a Democrat political hack and anxious to hang this shooting on the "right", but as the senior law enforcement official in that county, where Loughner will be ultimately standing trial on State murder charges, he is jeopardizing the case against the perp by offering his opinions and running his mouth on things other than the facts of the case.

Relevant reading...

Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte)

[Tripitaka of AA]

I'm not up-to-speed with the political affiliations or background to this particular case, but I am concerned about the "I want be famous - I'm going to kill someone".

Some atrocious events get to be remembered in terms of the victims and the loss endured by their families ("911", "Dunblane", "Columbine", "Oklahoma City Bombing"). Some get labelled with the name of the perpetrator and they achieve some form of celebrity ("Charles Manson", "Yorkshire Ripper", "Myra Hindley", "Jeffrey Dahmer"). In recent years, competititon among News media can bring create worldwide fame and celebrity to people who would otherwise go unnoticed. More than once, the perpetrators of evil have revealed that part of their intent was to "get famous". The more attention is given to evil-doers, the stronger the attraction for those incapable of earning a reputation on their own merits. Every miserable wretched failure can start to contemplate becoming a household name just by taking a murderous shortcut to the Front Page. In the UK, we have recently been treated to the spectacle of a man fixated by serial killers, who proceeded to murder just enough women to achieve that classification of murderer - dropping hints at cannibalism and dismembering bodies - then giving his name in court as "the Crossbow Cannibal" and thereby choosing his own nickname and guaranteeing a place in criminal history.

I'm trying to think of a way to create a modern version of "banishment". I am not a big fan of Capital Punishment, but I would like to find a way to make people disappear from the planet's surface, rather than rewarding them with everlasting fame.

[Abbax8]

I personally find it morally offensive that anyone in the media is trying to spin this tragedy in anyway for political gain. The shooter is mentally ill, that is apparent by his writings. Why he was not being treated is a question that needs asked? He was apparently physically removed from a college algebra class at the request of the teacher because the teacher was afraid he would bring a gun to class, I heard his interview this morning on the radio.

It doesn't matter if his writings lean left, right or inside out and upside down. He is sick and a proven danger to society.

The persons working this for political gain are also sick and a danger to our society as well.

Dennis

[David Craik]

I agree with Dennis wholeheartedly. The guy's a freaking murderous nut, and that's all there is to it. His political philosophy is irrelevant. I don't know of any train of political thought beyond the most bizarre and insane that advocates shooting people - including a little 9 year old girl - to death. The whole political angle sickens me. Likening him to any philosophy beyond the most irrational is akin to likening the WBC to actual Christians. He is a despicable criminal, whether he is "left" or "right" doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

But, the finger-pointing does cast light on the hateful political climate in this country. This dangerous climate honestly makes me fear for the future of this nation.

And predictably the knee-jerk begins:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

[Don Roley]

And predictably the knee-jerk begins:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

OMG!

Did you see what is being proposed on the second page of that article?


Pennsylvania Rep. Robert Brady, a Democrat from Philadelphia, told CNN that he also plans to take legislative action. He will introduce a bill that would make it a crime for anyone to use language or symbols that could be seen as threatening or violent against a federal official, including a member of Congress.

I put the the bold to draw emphasis. This is bad, really bad. Now the government is going to be the judge of what falls under the first amendment and what could be see as threatening. Has anyone been following what is happening under Putin and Chavez lately?

[Jay Bell]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/10/20110110gabrielle-giffords-suspect-loughner-court-appearance-brk10-ON.html

[Webmaster]

The knee-jerking continues...

Dem planning bill that would outlaw threats to lawmakers (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136895-dem-planning-bill-that-would-outlaw-threatening-lawmakers)

You mean communicating a threat isn't already illegal? Really?

And of course it would outlaw ...'use language or symbols that could be perceived as inciting violence'.

So much for that Constitution thing and freedom of speech.

[southernrock]

Relevant reading...

Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte)

Relevant, and very telling...

[Jay Bell]

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/11/132809465/a-disturbing-motif-online-manifesto-mass-shooting?sc=fb&cc=fp

[Don Roley]

Something I found linked to the article Jay posted.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/10/132810483/loughner-social-outcast-with-indecipherable-beliefs?ps=rs

This part should raise eyebrows.


— Mother Jones magazine spoke with a friend of Loughner's, 22-year-old Bryce Tierney, who says the suspect "held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a 'fake'."



So the whole mess we have endured for the last 72 hours about media influences, right wing vitriol, etc is complete bunk!

Now that some are using this to try to roll back our freedom of speech, where are the apologies from those that pushed the idea as part of their political agenda?

[southernrock]

So the whole mess we have endured for the last 72 hours about media influences, right wing vitriol, etc is complete bunk!

Now that some are using this to try to roll back our freedom of speech, where are the apologies from those that pushed the idea as part of their political agenda?

Don't hold your breath waiting for any apologies, or acknowledgement from the people who have been trying to spin this, that they were jumping to conclusions with no basis in fact. There are plenty of lefties in the MSM, and Democrat operatives in general, who are determined to continue this narrative.

I think they figure that since most people still get their news and commentary from the MSM, that they will be able to pull it off. All is fair in political warfare to these people, and they are frantic to try to diminish the influence of the Tea Party movement and to destroy Sarah Palin, who is also being blamed by some in this crowd for the Arizona shootings. For whatever reason(s) their hatred of Palin runs deep, and is pathological.

[southernrock]

Let's see how consistent the people who have been bemoaning for the last few days, what they are saying is inflammatory rhetoric on the right, are.

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/01/facebook-group-i-hate-it-when-i-wake-up-sarah-palin-is-still-alive-passes-2000-members/

[Don Roley]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011106068_pf.html


Massacre, followed by libel

By Charles Krauthammer for The Washington Post
Wednesday, January 12, 2011;

The charge: The Tucson massacre is a consequence of the "climate of hate"
created by Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, Obamacare opponents and
sundry other liberal betes noires.

The verdict: Rarely in American political discourse has there been a
charge so reckless, so scurrilous and so unsupported by evidence.

As killers go, Jared Loughner is not reticent. Yet among all his writings,
postings, videos and other ravings - and in all the testimony from all the
people who knew him - there is not a single reference to any of these
supposed accessories to murder.

Not only is there no evidence that Loughner was impelled to violence by
any of those upon whom Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann, the New York Times, the
Tucson sheriff and other rabid partisans are fixated.

There is no evidence that he was responding to anything, political or
otherwise, outside of his own head.

A climate of hate? This man lived within his very own private climate. "His
thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world," said the teacher of
Loughner's philosophy class at Pima Community College. "He was very
disconnected from reality," said classmate Lydian Ali. "You know how it is when you
talk to someone who's mentally ill and they're just not there?" said
neighbor Jason Johnson. "It was like he was in his own world."

His ravings, said one high school classmate, were interspersed with
"unnerving, long stupors of silence" during which he would "stare fixedly at his
buddies," reported the Wall Street Journal. His own writings are confused,
incoherent, punctuated with private numerology and inscrutable taxonomy. He
warns of government brainwashing and thought control through "grammar." He
was obsessed with "conscious dreaming," a fairly good synonym for
hallucinations.

This is not political behavior.

These are the signs of a clinical thought disorder - ideas disconnected
from each other, incoherent, delusional, detached from reality.

These are all the hallmarks of a paranoid schizophrenic.

And a dangerous one.

A classmate found him so terrifyingly mentally disturbed that, she e-mailed
friends and family, she expected to find his picture on TV after his
perpetrating a mass murder. This was no idle speculation: In class "I sit by the
door with my purse handy" so that she could get out fast when the shooting
began.

Furthermore, the available evidence dates Loughner's fixation on Rep.
Gabrielle Giffords to at least 2007, when he attended a town hall of hers and
felt slighted by her response.

In 2007, no one had heard of Sarah Palin. Glenn Beck was still toiling on
Headline News. There was no Tea Party or health-care reform. The only
climate of hate was the pervasive post-Iraq campaign of vilification of George W.
Bush, nicely captured by a New Republic editor who had begun an article
thus: "I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it."

Finally, the charge that the metaphors used by Palin and others were
inciting violence is ridiculous.

Everyone uses warlike metaphors in describing politics.

When Barack Obama said at a 2008 fundraiser in Philadelphia, "If they bring
a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," he was hardly inciting violence.

Why?

Because fighting and warfare are the most routine of political metaphors.
And for obvious reasons.

Historically speaking, all democratic politics is a sublimation of the
ancient route to power - military conquest. That's why the language persists.
That's why we say without any self-consciousness such things as
"battleground states" or "targeting" opponents. Indeed, the very word for an electoral
contest - "campaign" - is an appropriation from warfare.

When profiles of Obama's first chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, noted that he
once sent a dead fish to a pollster who displeased him, a
characteristically subtle statement carrying more than a whiff of malice and murder, it was
considered a charming example of excessive - and creative - political
enthusiasm.

When Senate candidate Joe Manchin dispensed with metaphor and simply fired
a bullet through the cap-and-trade bill - while intoning, "I'll take dead
aim at [it]" - he was hardly assailed with complaints about violations of
civil discourse or invitations to murder.

Did Manchin push Loughner over the top? Did Emanuel's little Mafia
imitation create a climate for political violence?

The very questions are absurd - unless you're the New York Times and you
substitute the name Sarah Palin.
The origins of Loughner's delusions are clear: mental illness. What are
the origins of Krugman's?

_letters@charleskrauthammer.com_ (mailto:letters@charleskrauthammer.com)

What is really incredible is that if you look at the comments section you can see that the hate and attacks are continuing even as we know more about the shooter.

The president is going to try to shut down some of his most influential critics using this tragedy to get around our natural protective nature of the first amendment. He may get away with it. The facts are not slowing the tide and this president is nothing if not someone used to running elections and destroying the other side by whatever means possible.

[Don Roley]

http://news.spreadit.org/pics/Wisconsin-Protests.jpg

Wow! I am told that this type of violent image is pretty common in the Wisconsin protests against the Governor right now. Where is the media fury?

[Don Roley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gsnLfsbbM

Wow, now where is the media and the talking heads?