The "Survival Knife"

[David Craik]

How about a discussion of what makes a good knife for survival purposes? While the public view of "survival knives" tend toward hollow-handled, saw-toothed, Rambo-looking things, my idea of a good knife is different. A knife is the absolute bedrock of survival. Given the right skills and terrain, everything else is a convenience. You can make and do all you need to survive in most places on earth with just a knife.

I have collected knives since I was around 12, and used many different kinds for various "survival" tasks. Here is my opinion:

1. You don't need a saw on the back of your knife. Despite their existence on big knives, they are of very limited utility. It is far easier and faster to chop down a sapling or branch than saw it. A saw in a pocketknife or multi-tool is a different story; it can be quite useful.

Case in point, this thing is stupid:

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2. Hollow handles containing survival items; also dumb. Having a hollow handle makes a very weak knife. Carry your survival items separately.

3. Pommels touted as being designed for hammering. My first "survival knife" was a "USAF survival knife", also carried for many years by Marine aviators:

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It was circa 1983. If you have ever attempted to hammer in a stake with a pommel, you have had a lot of skinned knuckles, frustration, and bruised wrist-bones trying to hammer in a stake with an object that weighs less than a pound and measures about an inch and a half across. Unlike an actual hammer, trying to pommel-strike a small diameter object just isnt natural or effective. Hammering stuff is what rocks are made for. In addition, the saw on this thing is absolutely useless.

3. Lashing holes and other contrivances for making a "spear". An aboriginal may be able to bring down an animal with a spear. I cannot. Nor can most people. Primitive peoples used spears largely en masse to hunt mastodon and whatnot. If you can stalk a deer and bring it down with a knife lashed to a stick then my hat's off to you.

4. Assorted other gee-gaws. There used to be a knife called a Buckmaster, actually made by Buck and widely copied, that featured threaded holes in the guard in which you could screw in included spikes to make a grappling hook. That's right, a freaking grappling hook.

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Even if it worked, just when would you use this? In addition, look at the wire rope saw that will break when you attempt to unfold it. There are good wire rope saws, modelled on the SAS model, but they are never found in knives. There are some knives whose handles are wrapped in an entire 4 feet of thin cord, under the idea you could unwrap it and and use the cord. Now you can make a whole two snares! There are also those with inaccurate liquid-filled compasses in the pommel. Sometimes even magnetic compasses in a steel pommel, that throws off the needle.

So what to do? In my opinion there is no such thing as a "survival knife", really. A sturdy knife of good blade steel is a good knife. I like a fixed blade, full tang knife solidly constructed for hard use. Ideally one should have two: a machete or kukri and a smaller knife capable of finer work like skinning game and filleting fish.

If limited to one knife, here's mine from around 1993 when they still came with a leather sheath:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKoSaDb_wVo-eslfXyR2mUBXQjhhBtBCbHsHHlJZCgcQsQCKV_Uw

Not very exciting looking, I know. But it's one piece of steel, very sharp and holds an edge for damn near ever, capable of fine work, defense, and chopping with equal aplomb. There is nothing to come loose or break.

I can carry fish hooks, saws, band-aids, and a compass separately if I want. A knife is the most important tool you have, it shouldn't be an edged matchbox.

[Ramirez]

That's a Cold Steel Bushmaster Dave? I was seriously looking at those as my main survival knife, might still buy one. As far as knives it seems everyone has a different opinion but basically for me a fixed blade knife with full tang is what I usually looked for.

Recently the Mora's have gotten my attention, they are dirt cheap but perform like a knife costing 5 times as much, I prefer the carbon steel ones, they all have a scandi grind meaning a large bevel right into the cutting edge.


http://www.bepreparedtosurvive.com/MoraClipperRed.CarbonSteelNew.jpg

[David Craik]

Yup Mark, that's the Bushmaster. I could really do without the silly inscription on the blade, and their marketing that the hollow handle can be fitted to a pole to make a spear. But it is indeed a rock-solid knife. At the time it could be bought for a whopping $12.98. I do wish they had knurled the handle though.

I am very fond of Mora knives, but I wonder how well that piece will chop (unless you plan to carry something else as well).

[Ramirez]

Yup Mark, that's the Bushmaster. I could really do without the silly inscription on the blade, and their marketing that the hollow handle can be fitted to a pole to make a spear. But it is indeed a rock-solid knife. I am very fond of Mora knives, but I wonder how well that piece will chop (unless you plan to carry something else as well).

I don't think the Mora will stand up too batoning too well although I've seen it done, for chopping I would carry a Fiskars hatchet.

[David Craik]

If we are talking two edged tools I would carry my Kukri and my Buck Ergohunter Avid.

[jjaje]

There is always a compromise in gear for survival. Specifically mobility versus gear. If you are not concerned with extra size or weight - say in your trunk, then I feel the best "survival knife" is the small shovel.
http://www.ltspecpro.com/images/thumbs/0001296_424.jpeg

I take one camping all the time. It digs better and chops better than most knives. It also offers excellent leverage. You can't use it for duties like filleting a fish or skinning an animal, depends on survival needs, but you can cook on it once you do skin an animal.

[David Craik]

I remember Sgathak putting up a thread on how he cooked some eggs on one of these. What sort of finish does it have on the blade, and what is the possibility that this finish will release poisonous fumes or particulates into your food? I only ask because I've never owned one of these.

Something like this would certainly be a great addition to the old truck. I may just have to throw one in there, still have plenty of space. A shovel of some sort is indeed a damn handy thing to have.

[jjaje]

Yeah, the coating does scratch, seems to be some kind of paint or something. I probably wouldn't want to use all the time, but in an emergency...

[David Craik]

True enough. Then again if one is camping surely one has utensils on which to cook. If you are in a stranded vehicle long enough to have to hunt or trap wild game and cook them on a shovel in order to survive I question your travel habits. :D

Just kidding. This is an excellent tool to have, and a great suggestion.

[Erik]

Anyone use a kuhkri? What do you think of it for camping/survival purposes?

[TonyU]

Anyone use a kuhkri? What do you think of it for camping/survival purposes?
I think that would fall into a combat knife category. While I'm not a survivalist by any means and with only a rudimentary knowledge on the subject.
I would think as a survival knife would be more utilitarian. In other word be versatile for killing (game) as well for building shelter and fire.
If I had to I would grab my Ka-Bar in a pinch.

If you guys remember a while I ago I got the following;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/aburena/DSC02429.jpg
The second is a Ka-Bar Becker TacTool (https://www.kabar.com/product/productDetail.do?productNumber=BK3&mode=category&categoryId=1,7,9&categoryName=Military/Tactical).
I got it because I thought it would be a good addition to my SWAT gear. Well, after one call out where I had to set a sniper hide in a wood-line the tool paid for itself in spades. It allowed me to cut vegetation with ease to assist me in concealment and to have a clear and unobstructed view.
I've since painted it and is now attached to my sniper pack.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/aburena/DSC02795.jpg

[lfos847]

I have been involved in Survival Preparedness since 1980 and a knife collector since 1967. I have been thru most of the knives mentioned here. I agree with most of what has been said. The USAF saw back was intended for the sheet metal of a helicopter or the skin of a plane not wood. The Becker is an excellent tool but I have trouble getting new students to spend that much. The oldest saying I can remember is a survival knife is the one you have with you when you have to survive. No one knife can do all the jobs that come up in a survival situation. I usually recommend a quality muli-tool for everyday carry and add to it if you know you are going into the field. A small extremely sharp tool should be in your first aid kit (Practice on a pork roast not your friends). I live in Florida so I do carry a modern Kukri not the one from India/Pakistan. When not in my jungle mode, I carry a copy of Chris Reeves Warthog. It is a good knife/axe/shovel compromise. I also carry a small folding saw. My experience is that a saw uses less energy that hacking. For a well thought out knife look up Tom Brown's Tracker. I had the pleasure of using one for a weekend, wonderfull tool but out of my price range. You usually can't predict when you will need to use such a tool so think about your EDC (Every Day Carry items). I am new to blogging but maybe we can start a thread about EDC if there is any interest.

[Ramirez]

I am new to blogging but maybe we can start a thread about EDC if there is any interest.

by all means, please start a thread, I am quite happy to see that there is an interest in this forum. Every Day Carry (EDC) is a great topic, most survival books usually start out with a list of EDC items.

Looking forward to your contribution and expertise Larry.

[Erik]

Hi Tony. As I understand it the kuhrki is also meant to be quite useful for chopping, slicing, skinning, and banging away on things, so it's not just for fighting. That's my understanding, anyway.

Larry - any experience with this?

Also - regarding every day carries, does anyone carry an Opinel 8? I've found this to be just perfect for my (albeit urban) lifestyle. I prefer the stainless because it doesn't make fruites taste yucky but the carbon steel can take an incredible edge.

[Michael J. Bray]

:bow:I own a Becker/Knife & Tool "Campanion" which is a very useful multi purpose knife. I believe I paid somewhere around $75.00 some years back, while down at Smokey Mountain Knife Works. Usually though, the very sharp folder in my pocket will do most of the cutting chores. :bow:

[lfos847]

Thanks for the support people.

The Kukri is the national knife of Nepal and is famed as the carry weapon of the Gurka troops in the British service. It is the every day carry for men and women in Nepal. They vary in lenght from 10" to 36". The longer ones are for ceremonies were they behead an ox with one blow. I have not personally seen this but I believe it. There are some great WW2 stories about Gurka versus Japanese solidiers but that is another story.

I got my first Kukri, a $20 "genuine Gurka issue" (ha ha), more than 30 years ago and have been in love with them ever since. I even collected them for a while. The 16"-18" knife has the same chopping power of a 24" machete but is more versatile.

The history may go all the way back to the Greek Kopis carried to Nepal by the troops of Alexander.

The modern Kukri like those from Cold Steel (good video), Kabar and Condor are excellent. You can still get the "genuine" $20 version. With a good deal of work regrinding the edge and cleaning up the handle it is a good knife.

I have not used on for skinning but have done ALL other camp chores with mine. One added bonus is it makes a fine draw knife for cleaning saplings and quarter staff/bo in the field. There are even folding Kukris on the market but I have not used one.

In the field I carry a Condor Kukri (I like the Rosewood handle), a medium sheath knife, a small sheath knife for skinning and a Leatherman Wave. I have a small Swiss Army Knife (SAK) in my first aid kit. My urban survival kit leans toward more pointy objects and impact weapons but that is another tail.

No one knife will do it all. There is no master knife or master style. Try to borrow different knives and try them. When you find the one for you stick with it and learn that knife. It is just like our martial arts studies, if you try to learn them all you will master none.

I am a wordy old fart. One last tease. The Kukri is excellent for throwing like a tomahawk.

[Ramirez]

Hi Tony. As I understand it the kuhrki is also meant to be quite useful for chopping, slicing, skinning, and banging away on things, so it's not just for fighting. That's my understanding, anyway.

Larry - any experience with this?

Also - regarding every day carries, does anyone carry an Opinel 8? I've found this to be just perfect for my (albeit urban) lifestyle. I prefer the stainless because it doesn't make fruites taste yucky but the carbon steel can take an incredible edge.


Actually carbon steel chef's knives are popular now because of the edge, but what you need to do is force a patina on the blade, usually done by immersing the blade into some kind of acidic solution like vinegar, this will solve that iron taste it imparts to food.

[Erik]

What's that little religious notch for, Larry?

[lfos847]

Most answers are just myths. It does resemble a Shiva sign but Hindi was not popular in Nepal. They are primarily follows of Budda. The oldest reference I found was only around 1840 when the discussion was about the smaller two knives that are also traditional. One small knife is sharp and one dull, use to cut and clean musket patches. The "religious" notch was said to be for cleaning the flash pan. Long story short no absolute answer.

[David Craik]

The USAF saw back was intended for the sheet metal of a helicopter or the skin of a plane not wood.I'm aware of that. And it's useless for sheet metal as well, I've tried it on Alclad, light gauge galvanized steel, and aircraft aluminum. May as well use the side of a mill file. Makes a semi-decent fish scaler though, for small fish. Good for scratching an itch between your toes too.

As for chopping vs. sawing, the larger the diameter of what you intend to cut the more the saw will rule, if it's a quality saw. But for most saplings that I use to make just about everything I find it personally easier to take it down in one or two strokes. Maybe it's because I'm a sword guy and just like cutting stuff, I dunno.


Anyone use a kuhkri? What do you think of it for camping/survival purposes? I love my kukris, they would make an excellent "survival knife" IMO, as I mentioned in the OP and post #5. There's little you can't do with it. I've used mine since I was a wee lad around 1984, and it still works like a champ. Probably got it from the same place Larry got his "genuine issue" one - Atlanta Cutlery.

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My father's WWII-era South African Infantry emblems are of course neither original nor historically correct to the knife. But he bought it for me and had a lot of respect for the Gurkha (he served with some members of the Assam Rifles on loan from their regiment in Burma), so decorating the scabbard with a couple of his insignia seemed somehow right to me when he died. I've used this kukri hard for all manner of things for many years and still do today, so I can attest to it's durability and usefulness. It is an excellent design.

One I have even survived a house fire, with only a little charring of the handle. Opinels are too thin-bladed for my liking as primary "survival" knives. It's a scalpel when what you want is a hatchet. I want something tough I can pry, dig, and split with. As a tertiary blade for fine work it is a great knife indeed. You know I love them, Erik. :)

I'd never heard the "flash pan" explanation for the notch before, Larry. That's interesting. I always found it hilarious that it was explained as a "blood-letting" notch, the poor Gurkha would be running around with some seriously mangled fingers were this the case. I'd always heard that the notch was a representation of the Trident of Shiva, and it seemed reasonable enough. But I can't say for certain.


but Hindi was not popular in Nepal. They are primarily follows of Budda.This is incorrect. Nepal is actually over 80% Hindu, and in fact it was the Gurkha that made Hinduism Nepal's state religion. The very name 'Gurkha' or 'Gorkha' comes from Gorakshanath, the name of a Hindu 'warrior-saint' connected to Shiva. Relatively few Nepalese are Buddhist.

[David Craik]

by all means, please start a thread, I am quite happy to see that there is an interest in this forum. Every Day Carry (EDC) is a great topic, most survival books usually start out with a list of EDC items.

Looking forward to your contribution and expertise Larry.

"Every Day Carry" would largely depend on where you live and where you go every day. If you live in Nome and have to commute to Fairbanks via snowmobile, your "EDC" will likely include wilderness survival items. I carry a Leatherman Core (only because I use it in my job) and a cell phone. I cannot really picture an instance where most people are thrust into a "wilderness survival" situation in their daily lives while walking down the street or commuting to their job or the grocery store.

I would hope that those people who travel in potentially hazardous environments on a daily basis would know what to carry without benefit of a survival book.

[lfos847]

Thanks David. I live I learn.

[David Craik]

Don't we all, partner. :D

[Tripitaka of AA]

.well... not according to my wife, apparently! :(

[ride57]

(sorry, I cant post a pic of the knife as it says it is to many urls and may contain forbidden words??)

Greetings, I got the below blade from my (ex wifes) relative in Northern Thailand. Its made from a truck leaf spring, its has a hollow handle, but I have never tried to make a spear out of it. It works very well as a machete. The sheath is rattan and that is goat scrotum on the end that holds the end together. It is made for field/jungle work. ETA: it looks alot like the cold steel bushman.

My carry knife is a benchmade folder (forgot exactly what model it is :confused:) but I observe the law (Washington state) so they are 3 1/2 in or less blade length.

In my backpack I have a Eickhorn Solingen Pocket Rescue tool. I used to wear that when I was a volunteer deputy, then firefighter/EMT. It will cut windshields out (yes I tried it, works, wear gloves!!) has the window break button and the seat belt cutter.

My favorite knife , the one I am never without is the little pocket knives that have the scissors and file/screwdriver blade. Cleans fingernails, open boxes etc.:D:

I just ordered a KaBar USN knife (the one with the 7 in blade) Mostly because I am retired Navy. It was a toss up between that and the KaBar tanto that (tony?) posted a pic of earlier.

Doug

[ride57]

Ok, I figured it out :o
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[David Craik]

it looks alot like the cold steel bushman.

It sure does! In the Philippines they made a lot of knives out of leaf-springs too, this type of steel seems to work very well.

[Ramirez]

It sure does! In the Philippines they made a lot of knives out of leaf-springs too, this type of steel seems to work very well.

They have a certain rough charm that I really like, the Cold Steel is on my to get list. Thanks for recommending.

[Mekugi]

Just one knife is pretty hard to fathom since one needs something small to get inside of animals and cut not to mention for the smaller, more precise tasks.

But for a larger size knife, here's my commercial pick: The M7-S made after Imperial lost the M-9 contract and before Shrade went out of business. It has a highly functional saw on the back of it that is handy for making notches in wood and did a fairly good job of cutting through bone- meaning it was actually more good than for show. It has a smaller saw towards the point that was also handy for cutting rope. It has a small hammer and claw on the pommel, which I found useful in the field and a lot better than using a rock or limb to hammer in tent posts or stakes. The cross-guard has a phillips head and a flathead screwdriver tooled in it, but I have never had much use for that but once, and it didn't work very well. I had put this through the wringer and re-blued it several times, so it has been pretty true to it's cause. The sheath has pocket on it and the compass and other junk can be pulled out, leaving the magnesium fire starter and room for other 'possibles' in it.

Other than that I have a Buckskinner knife that was custom made for me that has done me the most good. That blade is perhaps the best I have ever had. Simple, rugged and virtually indestructible.

[WhiteBeltJones]

Any thoughts on this multipurpose shovel that the Chinese armies employs, apparently?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzpRh-ZE9Mo

[David Craik]

Unusual choice on the M-7 Russ. I've found a light dagger type blade to be very limited in practice, and the pommel of a knife to be pretty marginal for hammering anything. Except a skull maybe. But whatever works for you. Of course is one had their druthers, multiple knives would be optimal, but I have found a larger knife of good quality can perform the function of small knives by simply wrapping the excess edge with something and using only the first couple inches, whereas the reverse is not true. You can made a big knife a small knife, but not the other way around. Most small animals can be skinned by simply pulling the skin off with your hands anyway after a few cuts.

I guess this underscores personal preference; if you like a knife and can use it well for these types of tasks by all means use that one. A lot of the stuff I've done requires chopping of small-diameter branches - stakes, trap triggers, hooks, battens, etc. and bayonet blades due to their shape just don't seem well-suited to that. Or to skinning. Sawing something 1/2" in diameter just seems like a waste of time when you could cut it in one swipe.

That Chinese shovel looks to be made of pretty decent steel that will take a good edge, or course how long it maintains that edge is anyone's guess. A good shovel like this I'm sure is a godsend, but it cannot take the place of a knife in my mind.

[Mekugi]

My experience is pretty limited from the terrain I've hunted in, so it suits that fine I guess.

I used to used my old Ka-Bar but switched to the M7-S because it had more function to it.
The M7-S doesn't chop well, that is a problem. I usually use a larger blade or tomahawk to take down limbs, and then whittle when it comes to stakes and camp tools, so it does a fairly good job of that. The dagger shape makes it handy for stripping bark and the tip is a fairly decent chisel. The saw is good for making notches but not for taking down limbs (that's a given) so a saw on the back to me means a notch-maker. As for digging, the shape is nice to plunge into hard earth and pull it up....especially sand rock littered soil. It's not easy to get inside a mule deer let alone smaller game, so it is useless for that.
Now that I think of it, I have used this blade more for woodwork than anything else.

Furthermore I don't believe I have a one knife policy. I usually carry three around in the woods, large for hacking, one medium for chores (like the M7S), and then one smaller for dressing and cooking. Guess I never had to summarize it all down....and this is making me think I need to start looking around again.

One a side note, this is not a bad combination: A Green River knife and a Tomahawk.

I've had my green river knife since I can remember and it is always a camp companion. It's the perfect do all knife for cutting and gutting (and it whittles nicely).

The Tomahawk, while it is slower than a machete on smaller limbs, can take down trees with a little effort.

[David Craik]

True enough, I never have only one knife either. A tomahawk is a great tool as well.

[Mekugi]

This is a good thread, it's making me think about what the perfect knife to have in my scramble pack would be....

[Ramirez]

I don't have much experience with machetes but some of the bushcraft/survival books I have read usually say an axe or tomahawk is better suited for the wood lands of most of North America, the machete is better suited for tropical regions. I can't recall the reason, perhaps the dense growth in rain forests might be it.

[lfos847]

Has anyone read the articles on the Tom Brown Tracker knife. I could never spend that much but I did get to test one for a weekend trip into the Everglades.