Karate or Muay Thai

[Geordie Boy]

Here we go a bit of a poser for you. How would a Karateka cope against a Muay Thai practitioner (in the street - not competition).

Just curious for you thoughts.

[Kenji]

In my opinion it would depend on how the practicioners in the fight train. Do they train for sport competion or raw street fighting? Do they train often, or just a few days a week?

I can't say whether or not Muay Thai is more effective than Karate, because I just don't know enough about Muay Thai. But, I would have to say the end result would depend on the personal training each martial artist put himself through before-hand.:bandit:

[Sean Reilly]

My money would be on the Muay Thai fighter. I just think it is more viscious than Karate(I.M.H.O.).

Don't get me wrong I don't think either art is better than the other, I just think the average Thai fighter trains with a different mind set than your everyday Karate practitioner.

Cheers:D



Sean

[TkdWarrior]

I just think the average Thai fighter trains with a different mind set than your everyday Karate practitioner.
Muai Thai all the way...
same reason as above..

[black-gi]

Personally, I go with the karate man, there is only so many ways you can punch and kick with gloves on which is a daily practise for thai fighters talking from experiance. Thai boxers stand very forward and provide little movement I do however believe it is the individual to make do with there tools, but karate is so versitile and endless amount of techniques.. I feel Thai is for the ring, Karate for the streets.. Genneraly


Jason Bryant:)

[johenora]

Depends on the participants ,the situation and the terrain.

[Jeff Burger]

Depends on the individual.
How does the Karate guy train?
Is he doing full contact or real self defense oriented?

If I "HAD" to place a bet not knowing either fighter Id go with Muay Thai.

Jeff

[autir]

When two people fight, it's the two people and not the systems they represent.
What type of karate does the karateka know?

[jabbathehut]

I would have to say Muay Thai -i maybe a bit biased but ive trained and sparred with practitioners of both styles and the Average Muay Thai fighter does have an extra aggression -goes with the territory, although it does depend on the person. And whats this that Muay Thai is only punches and kicks for the ring -that guy has no idea about Muay Thai. At my gym most of the guys there are more confident and aggressive fighters -My friend that trains in Karate agrees although he argues on whether it is because of the Full contact sparring giving them confidence or whether that Full Contact element attracts more confident/aggressive fighters because it scares off less confident individuals -I cant decide, both make sense to me.

[johenora]

Originally posted by black-gi
Personally, I go with the karate man, there is only so many ways you can punch and kick with gloves on which is a daily practise for thai fighters talking from experiance. Thai boxers stand very forward and provide little movement I do however believe it is the individual to make do with there tools, but karate is so versitile and endless amount of techniques.. I feel Thai is for the ring, Karate for the streets.. Genneraly


Jason Bryant:)
------------
Dear Jason Bryant:
I am not trying to be argumentative. Have you considered the MUAY THAI boxer has also lots of options such as chokes, strangles,neck breaks,jumping with elbow strikes to clavicle? Some have weak hands I admit. But does it not really depend on the abilities of the fighters,experiences and the circumstances etc.?
Of course neither system is better.
It should depend on the fighter's skill etc.
Cheers.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Gassho,

[jabbathehut]

.................................................. ....
Of course neither system is better.
It should depend on the fighter's skill etc.
Cheers.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Gassho, [/B][/QUOTE]


Are we all becoming too politically correct or something -why is neither better? We are all told not to make derogatory remarks about other styles but that doesn't mean all styles are equal does it? It means that no one really knows - We need a proper martial arts tournament or something where different styles are fairly pitched against one another -Is it possible for their to be a fair tournament to see which is best? When a football team wins the league we automatically assume them to be the best -irrelevant to what misfortunes the other teams have experienced so why not with martial arts? why so many excuses?

[Gae-Bek]

In answer to your question, I have firsthand experience to offer.

I (for those who do not know) am an assistant instructor at the Warhawk Karate Club at the University Of Wisconsin - Whitewater. We teach Goju Ryu Karate and Ji Do Kwan Taekwondo. Being a college campus, we get people who come-in from other styles all the time.

Last spring, we had a guy on an instructor exchange program from Sweeden (working on his doctorate) come in to work-out with us. He was a 2nd Dan in Taekwondo (as was I, at the time), but for the last 5 years, he had trained in Muy Thai, and had competed as an ameteur.

When I sparred him, I was training for my 3rd Dan test, so my Instructor told him to "take it to me". We fought for over 5 minutes. We were trading blows pretty evenly (to our rules...no elbows or knees or leg kicks) for quite a while.

But eventually, he just wore me down. I was a hair faster than he was, but the amount of power that he could generate was overwhelming. The fourth time he knocked me down, was with three fast punches all to the same spot, which opened-up a cut under my left eye, and I was finished.

Not that I enjoy posting to thousands of people about the last time that I had my a$$ kicked, but I did learn a lot from that experience. It sent me into a mode of re-evaluating a lot of what I do.

So, yes, my money would probably be on the Muy Thai guy...but in the street, there are just too many variables to be 100% sure.

[BUDO BULLDOG]

Hello,

Certain styles have an inherit advantage in their training protocol for being more effective in a street defense situation. The question is what is your doctrine for self defense and what art best helps you achieve this.

My question is how do we take your chosen art and make it more _______, insert your question here:

How do we make our art more combat ready with out losing the tradition?
How do we make our art more proficient in building the character of the individual without losing the martial aspect to it?

I have been involved in the martial arts for about 20 years. I have learned that I am only and will always be a student, no matter what my rank is.

There is so much to learn and enjoy about the martial arts.

Appreciate your art for what it is and for what it is not. This gap of what an art is and what an art is not is an individual perspective. What you perceive the gaps to be is where you fill it in with what you are. This is where you make the art your own.

Happy Holidays

BULLDOG
Ed Barton

[black-gi]

sorry for late reply..


Jabba,


I never said " punches and kicks are only for the ring" I said there are only so many ways you can punch and kick with gloves on. and that Muaythai NOW-A-DAYS is more for the ring. I do know what I am talking about I have trained in muay thai. I PERSONALLY FEEL!!! karate id ment more for the street then thai boxing. this is my opinion.



Johenora,

I know that they do a some chokes and arm manipulation holds and so on, but honestly it is seldom taught, I am sure there are still camps that do teach them but I dont think to many. Again this is only what I see and hear, I am not claiming to be an expert in muay thai.



Jabba,

as far as there being a "best" if there was, there would only be one art. again IMO



:)


Jason Bryant

[Good advisor]

I know to both systems very well I trained in karate for fours years now, and about to study muay Thai.

1.Muay thai trains harder
2.Muay Thai is more aggressive
3.Muay Thai Is very poweful
4.Karate is good butMuay Thai has the advantage
5.Muay Thai fighter runs alot
6.Most Muay Thai have very long stamina
7.karateka's always prepare for an attacker and very alert
8.Muay thai fighters mosly fight full contact
9.Karate is good but takes time to master
10. Do you prefer a throw from a krate and then a doulble backfist
or prefer a clinch from a muay thai?

There you go, Oh Muay Thai is way longer then karate and karate
is very good but Muay Thai is bettre.

if you have stress alot join a karate club not a muay thai gym.

[black-gi]

dude I think you are stereotyping just a little.




Jason Bryant

[Cliff Hargrave]

Good Advisor,

Please sign all your posts with your full, real name as required by BudoSeek rules. Thank you.

[muaythaifreak]

All things being equal, Muay Thai would win. IMHO

[Panda]

Muay Thai is definately the more effective style. But I would rather be an expert in Shotokan because Muay Thai training drasticly shortens your life-span. Also remember, in Shotokan (or any karatedo) the practicioner is still expected to maintain a high degree of combat effectiveness...just not as high as Muay Thai.

[Mart]

Muay Thai training shortens your life spa, that a new one, if anything i thought it would increase it. I thought being fit was a bonus??

[muaythaifreak]

Muay Thai shortens your life span? Where did that come from? Maybe you meant fighting a Thai Boxer would shorten ones life span. I could go with that one. :D ;)

[Panda]

Muay Thai training is notorious for causing blood clots and bad circulation in the legs. Add that to the damage taken to the legs in a fight and it gets worse. I mean no ill will towards Muay Thai, it will make a champ out of you, but at a price.

[Mart]

im sorry but that is absolute rubbish

[Panda]

Oh well... :bow:

[muaythaifreak]

perhaps you could site some sources to your claims?

[black-gi]

I agree to the fact it will take its toll on you later in life, no question about that ( again this is coming from someone who has done his share in the ring) but the rest I dunno. A source would help.


Jason Bryant

[muaythaifreak]

Everything takes it's toll on you later in life. Even walking. TDK and Karate will take there toll on you more so than Muay Thai due to the fact that you are striking air. It is very hard on your joints. I don't see where MT causes any more wear and tear on the body than any other art. And as for blood clots, that's just rubbish. I've looked, and can find not one instance of MT being to blame for blood clots in the blood stream. I've asked everyone I know who would have any inclination (even my doctor), and no one has ever heard such a claim thus far. BTW, my doctor indicated that punching and kicking without resistance is far worse for your body than punching and kicking against resistance as we do in MT.

[n2shotokai]

I believe the original question was "how would a karate practitioner handle a muy thai practitioner in a fight".

First off if you practice sport karate I suggest your best defense would be a pair of tennis shoes. Put them on and run like H E double hocky sticks.

Second, the most common mistake a karate person makes is trying to fight the way your opponent fights. It is IMO the best way to lose but almost everyone gets sucked into this mode.

Third, fight the way you were trained to fight. This is what you are best at and in this situation you want to bring out your best first as second chances are rare. In my case I wait for the first attack (not always), block and/or evade with an immediate commited counter with a run over like a freight train effect.

[Xlars]

.................................................. ....
Of course neither system is better.
It should depend on the fighter's skill etc.
Cheers.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Gassho, [/B]

Are we all becoming too politically correct or something -why is neither better? We are all told not to make derogatory remarks about other styles but that doesn't mean all styles are equal does it? It means that no one really knows - We need a proper martial arts tournament or something where different styles are fairly pitched against one another -Is it possible for their to be a fair tournament to see which is best? When a football team wins the league we automatically assume them to be the best -irrelevant to what misfortunes the other teams have experienced so why not with martial arts? why so many excuses?

I agree that it is hard/impossible to say that one style is better or stronger than the other and that it very much depends on the individual ...

Regarding the "mixed tournament" idea, this have been done many times .. trying to find a set of rules that covers eg. most of the non grabbeling styles. I think that K1 is a very good example of this - these are truely strong fighters coming from differnt styles or the open Kyokushin Knock Down Tournanments in Europe and Japan .. where I have met practicioners from both Thai, Karate, Kick Boxing, Tae Kwon do fighting in the same tournament under the same set of rules.

Lars Bjorstrup

[skurk]

I do Muay Thai But I seen Kyokushin fighters beat Muay Thai and everybody else.I feel the greastest kickboxer ever was Andy Hug and he is Kyokushin.Watch him in k1 he was amazing.

[Dan]

Having done some Shotokan in the past and having lived in Thailand for two years (where there's plenty of opportunities to watch Muay Thai fighters in action) I would have said: Muay Thai makes mince-meat out of Karate.

Now after joining an excellent Goju dojo a couple of months ago where sparring is not point-sparring and done with good intensity, where conditioning and groundwork are part of the training, I'm not so sure anymore...

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but the Yudansha at this dojo seem pretty skilled. Could they beat a professional Muay Thai fighter, training twice a day for 4 hours? Probably not, but then who, having a full-time job, kids, college etc during the day, and training in the evenings at amateur level, could?

[gr455h0pp3r]

Training hard in Muay Thai will make your body a good fighting tool.
Im not terribly into the Thai ways (not that I dont respect them, I have been to Thailand) and so prefer Karate of the two.
A good ryu of Karate can go a long way. Whats this about being hard on your joints from striking the air? You ask for proof on one wild claim then make one yourself.. interesting.

[jwinch2]

Holy dead thread resurection Batman...

[addy]

it all depends...i am better at karate than u are at mauy thai? also i have found that if a karateka trains on a less technical basis and a more aggresive basis, then u put him in gloves. all of a sudden he looks very similar to a mauy thai practitioner. keep in mind american kick boxing is based around karate.

[shoshinkan]

outside of the all the variables, nothing to do with style,

plenty to do with conditioning..............

[Ignatius]

without any further info my money is on the mauy thai fighter. they generally fight in full contact tournaments all the time, they have a lot of "real" fighting experience, they practice a lot of conditioning, they have more aggression.

the full contact practice is their main benifit. I practice Karate and although we train (for example) elbow strikes against the air and againts shileds we are banned from using them in tournaments because they are (potentially) too devistating. because of the rareity that a Karate practicioner would use an elbow strike, they are less likely to think of using one in a real fight (mauy thai practicioners seem to get half their knockouts from elbow strikes, so are more ready to use one).

while a particular karateka may practice conditioning, devestating attacks, full contact fighting et cetera, my general experience is that, this is not the norm.


of course I haven't been doing Karate long and may be missing something, and ive never done mauy thai and may have the wrong idea, this is just my general observation.

more to the point however is that i didn't chose my martial art on its ability to whoop another in a grudge match. I chose Karate for its particular style of fighting, for its philoshophy, for its history.... and because some friends of mine were doing it.

[RGLII]

A fight in the street has very little to do with what art the people involved have trained in. All it comes down to is who can control their nerves, keep their focus, and thus control the situation. Everyone who posted earlier that it depends on the individual was exactly right.