Advise Please?

[JWhiteSensei]

Ok. I'm going to sing the same song that most Americans are singing right now. The economy is killing my dojo. I have went from over 45 students to 19 over the summer. Last week I pulled my 2 black belts and my brown belt into my office on Sunday and discussed the situation. We are at critical mass right now. Some on told me that if we could just hang on until the end of September and let school get started again we would be ok. I'm not sure just what crystal ball they were looking in but I certainly hope they were right. I have started taking as many aggresive steps at marketing as I can with absolutely NO cash. I have:

Passed out flyers at the local 4H Fair
Been passing out business cards, and having my students do so as well, like crazy.
Talked the local Pizza Hut into attaching 200 flyers to their delivery / take-out boxes this weekend
Am sponsering a free Women's Self Defense Seminar next weekend.
Have told the local Boys and Girls Club I would give any kids that they refered to me discounts on tuition
Offered to do a 6 week Basic Karate Class at the Boys and Girls Club
Told my students whoever gets the most people to come in and actually sign up for classes would get a free test
Sent out letters to former students inviting them back
Guys, I am at the end of my rope We are still planning on doing more flyers during a couple of parades that are coming up. I am simply stressed beyond my limits right now. If any of you have any suggestions of any marketing strategies that are free or at a VERY low cost, please let me know.

[jjaje]

How is your web page, where does it show up when people search for martial arts or karate?
Did you claim your local listing from google?
Are you using other review sites, such as yelp and manta?

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

[wab25]

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

Any chance you could offer a few tips or suggestions? I would be interested as well.

[TonyU]

Everything you're doing is all well and good to get new students. What are you doing to retain the ones you have? You lost almost 50% of your student base. That's a little high.

[Abbax8]

Get on Facebook and just chat with your current students, freind them. Then friend their friends. The chat about the club will be see by non-students and may generate some inquiries. Also announce to your students on facebook the self defense seminar, etc. It will get the word out.

Dennis

[Cliff Hargrave]

1. Raise your prices
2. Contracts with auto-billing only, unless they cash out in advance for a discount (NO Month to month payers!)
3. Website that is easy to find and designed properly. (Research "Squeeze Pages")
4. Tony is right, find out WHY you are losing so many.
5. Personally call every one that left and try to get them back, or at least get some feedback.
6. Yard signs and lead boxes are much better than flyers, probably the best direct marketing there is.
7. Join this place http://www.starting-a-martial-arts-school.com/
8. Get this e-book: http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/

[JWhiteSensei]

How is your web page, where does it show up when people search for martial arts or karate?
Did you claim your local listing from google?
Are you using other review sites, such as yelp and manta?

There are a ton of things you can do to your web page so that it comes up more frequently, and has a greater chance of someone following through into a sales lead.

Hi Jeff and thanks. the web site comes up #2 on Google. I am using several other review and link sites as well..

[JWhiteSensei]

1. Raise your prices
2. Contracts with auto-billing only, unless they cash out in advance for a discount (NO Month to month payers!)
3. Website that is easy to find and designed properly. (Research "Squeeze Pages")
4. Tony is right, find out WHY you are losing so many.
5. Personally call every one that left and try to get them back, or at least get some feedback.
6. Yard signs and lead boxes are much better than flyers, probably the best direct marketing there is.
7. Join this place http://www.starting-a-martial-arts-school.com/
8. Get this e-book: http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/

Thanks Jeff. i have raised my prices just this month. Funny, my main "competition" saw that I raised my prices and lowered his. I have tried the Lead Boxes before. thanks for the reminder. I will try them again as well as checking out the links you gave me. I sent out letters to a bunch who had left. A lot of them have gone because they moved out of town though so I have been limited to the number of reconnections to be made.

[JWhiteSensei]

Get on Facebook and just chat with your current students, freind them. Then friend their friends. The chat about the club will be see by non-students and may generate some inquiries. Also announce to your students on facebook the self defense seminar, etc. It will get the word out.

Dennis

Hi Dennis. thank you. My daughter, and one of my black belts is getting ready to launch us on FaceBook. I talked to her about it when I read this. We had thought of it before but never got it going. she is the FaceBook guru of the family so I have deemed it to her.

[JWhiteSensei]

Everything you're doing is all well and good to get new students. What are you doing to retain the ones you have? You lost almost 50% of your student base. That's a little high.
No, it's a LOT high. Some of them have moved to larger cities because of thier jobs. Some of them live a pretty good way out of town and simply could not afford the gas to drive to class. One family of 3 are supposed to be back when school starts (now) because they live about 30 miles away and making the trip 4 times a day was killing them on gas. There have been quite a few other reasons.

Of course I take the responsibility for it whether it's my fault or not. I have recently went back to a little more of a hard core training program. We had gotten a little lax in it because of the large number of children in class. I would go to hang my gi up to dry at the end of a class and it wasn't even wet. I have also started incorporating more self defense in the class and am looking at doing more weapons as well. We did a workout in the park a couple of weeks ago and it was very well attended. Planning on doing a few more of those before it gets too cold.

[JWhiteSensei]

I wanted to say thank you to all of you guys. I've had so many people come up to me and put their hand on my shoulder and say "Don't worry. Things will be all right". The truth of the matter is things are certainly NOT going to be alright unless I take action and take the right actions. This has happened one time before and it was then, just like it is now, totally my fault. The one lesson I have learned from this is to NEVER sit back and say Life Is Good and stop marketing.

You guys have given me some practical advise and some good ideas. You have also verified that some of what I am doing is right. Although I can't afford yard signs or memberships right now (I'm gonna be lucky to keep the lights and gas on this month) they are things I'd love to do when I get a little cash.

I guess sometimes we have to get kicked down so we can learn how to get back up. I'm Irish. I have a detrimental stubborn streak sometimes. I will not quit until there is absolutely no other option.

[Abbax8]

Jim,
One more idea. Does your town or county have a recreation council. Here in Blair County, PA. there is the Central Blair Recreation Council. They sponsor all kind of things, often from private businesses like health clubs and MA schools. If there is such an entity there, it is one more option to market yourself.

Dennis

[TonyU]

Of course I take the responsibility for it whether it's my fault or not. I have recently went back to a little more of a hard core training program. We had gotten a little lax in it because of the large number of children in class.
Woah, hold on a minute.. You mix your children in with your adults? You should have a separate class for them and on top of that they should not be run like a adult class.

[JWhiteSensei]

Jim,
One more idea. Does your town or county have a recreation council. Here in Blair County, PA. there is the Central Blair Recreation Council. They sponsor all kind of things, often from private businesses like health clubs and MA schools. If there is such an entity there, it is one more option to market yourself.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

Yes. there is a Shorikan guy who has taught for them for years. Love the guy. He keeps to himself and doesn't do a lot of interacting with the other schools. Why should he? LOL, the Rec district pays for any advertising he does, gives him a place to teach, and pays him to do so. Great gig. Great idea though Dennis I appreciate your thinking of me. Right now I'm trying a partnership with the Boys and Girls Club. They just opened in June and are in a building right across the alley behind me.

[JWhiteSensei]

Woah, hold on a minute.. You mix your children in with your adults? You should have a separate class for them and on top of that they should not be run like a adult class.

LOL. Calm down a little. everyone does basics together. Then we seperate the class. I will bring them back together at the end if we do something like self defense techniques because I believe a child should be able to defend himself against an adult. We are actually looking at restarting our Tiny Tiger Program which is similar to the Little Dragons.

[TonyU]

LOL. Calm down a little. everyone does basics together. Then we seperate the class. I will bring them back together at the end if we do something like self defense techniques because I believe a child should be able to defend himself against an adult. We are actually looking at restarting our Tiny Tiger Program which is similar to the Little Dragons.
Nope, sorry, still wrong way to go. Kids should be a a complete separate class from adults. Adults do not like to train with children and children can be intimidated by adults. Occasionally mixing it is ok if you do it as an extra like a make up class or run specifically a self defense class.

Here's my take, but before I begin let me tell you where I'm coming from. I've been with my sensei since 1987 who's run a successful traditional school since 1969. From 1992 to 1994 it was so successful that I worked for him full time as a program director.
Here's what I've learned.
1. Kids class separate.
2. Age group separate.
3. Rank separate
4. Kids classes cannot be run like the adult class.

Now don't get me wrong. We're hurting in this economy as well. People are not walking in the door like they used to. That's why you have to keep the ones you have.

If and when I open up a school I plan on doing almost everything Cliff mentioned and build it around kids.
This is my opinion and my opinion only. Kids carry the school. Build a kids class large enough to cover the expenses. Parents don't care about kata or tradition. They care that their kids having a good time. Some may care about self defense but most don't as we're a society of pacifist.
So my kids classes would be basics, self defense techniques, pads, and lots of sparring. I would also add games that support and supplement many of the techniques. You have to make it fun.
In your eyes karate is not a sport but in the parents and the kids it is. Thus you have to compete with all the sports out there. You can argue that you get much more than sports all you want, but the parents ain't hearing it. Trust me. Been there done that.

Now, do that and you can run your adults like you want. It may be small but can maintain the integrity of the style with the adults. In other words kids I'll teach karate, adults I'll teach Shorin Ryu karate. There's a difference.

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention. Everyone walking in the door is a customer. Eventually you may want to convert them into students, but they are first customers.

[JWhiteSensei]

thank you tony. I will take all of that into consideration. Time management is against me, or time in general. If it was 6 months in the future and I was retired, I could devote more time to opening more classes with more hours. Right now I work, my black belts work or go to school and my brown belt works. I'm going to sit down sunday and take a hard look at things and see if I can work some of these things in. One other major thing that i have, I have actually built quite a name for it, is my classes allow parents to work out WITH their children. Bellieve it or not, it's actually a perk.

[Underdog]

Unfortunately I can't think of any input that hasn't already been said. The best I can offer is my own 0.02 cents.

With regards to the enrollment number of students, I would agree that I also believe it will pick back up in September as well. There are just so many variables to consider, such as people going on trip's or vacation. There are also people who may not be able to make it regularly because with their kids out for the summer they dont have as much free time or may have other expenses like a baby sitter for example. Case in point, last year during the summer my Dojo's begginner class dropped down to 8 students, however by the end of September the class was actually so bloated with newcommers that we had to push some people early into the advanced class to make room, and even after that there was a waiting list to get in. Just wall to wall people. July and August are a caution to the wind couple of months, people fall out of their regular routine, when it get's to be fall people tend to settle back into the groove of things.

Also I would like to agree with Tony who posted before me, I would really lke to emphasize how important class structure is to a STUDENT of the class. It set's the environment for those learning. Having a childrens only class would allow you to have it set as a more relaxed and fun class, that the parents will enjoy because their kids will be allowed to have fun while also learning something. You may have already been hurting your business by mixing the adults with the kids simply because there may be parents who arent comfortable with their kids training alongside adults, and there may be adults who are not comfortable with their being children around when they are training. This could also help with enrollment because you could have seperate classes that you can advertise. A children's class is a much more 'Child friendly product' if you will, which will allow you to market it more directly to the parent's. In the same token you can market your adult class to a more specific market of people, and have a much more focused class.

On top of that, I would also like to reccomend splitting it into sectioned classes as well, such as begginner's-intermediate's one class, and advanced-Black Belt's in another. The smaller or more focused groups will give you a chance to give more focused attention and more general overall lesson's to the room, while giving you more time to spend making corrections. The more individual attention someone get's the more progress they will feel they are making, and it's that feeling that will help keep people coming back.

Lastly a thought I had just now, with the school season having freshly started, you could also go to nearby local school's, elementry middle etc, and if you can get the school's permission, do a free seminar in the school gymnasium for any who would like to participate. If you included possibly a small demonstration, as well as some of the history of your specific martial art, it could go a long way. It may spark an interest in some people who may not have that interest sparked by advertisement on a flayer. It's a much more personal touch to meeting potential new student's. "This is who I am, this is what I do, let me show you" sort of approach.

Anyway, best of luck. I'm sure it has been said before, but do try not to stress out about it. Your somewhat playing the waiting game right now, and it can be hard. You just have to remember that 5 minutes, is 5 minutes regardless, if your stressed out that 5 minutes can feel like an hour, and your burning what could be positive energy being put into the gym, into worrying and actually taking away from your efforts. How the cards play out isn't something you can predict, but fight the good fight and every month you can keep a roof over your dojo is one more small step towards success. Also, the night is darkest before the dawn.

[TonyU]

thank you tony. I will take all of that into consideration. Time management is against me, or time in general. If it was 6 months in the future and I was retired, I could devote more time to opening more classes with more hours. Right now I work, my black belts work or go to school and my brown belt works. I'm going to sit down sunday and take a hard look at things and see if I can work some of these things in. One other major thing that i have, I have actually built quite a name for it, is my classes allow parents to work out WITH their children. Bellieve it or not, it's actually a perk.
Sorry, but that also don't hold water for me. It sounds to me like you're making excuses. My sensei from '78 to '87 was a patrol officer working shifts. He did it. It was tough but he did.
All you need is one 45 minute kids class and 1 hour adult class. When started out you don't need to do it every day. It can be 3 times a week until you build a student base.
So, as an example, if you work a 9 to 5 a 6 to 6:45 kids class then a 6:45 to 7:45 adult class. You have time to go home, unwind and eat dinner. Run a kids class, then an adult one. If the adult class is going well that particular day it can go a little longer.

[Webmaster]

Just to chime in here, but I totally agree with Tony. You need to have separate children's classes, period. You may view having little Johnny and Susie training with Mommy and Daddy a benefit, and you may have students that like that, but I can assure you they are in the minority. I have yet to meet any adult who wanted to train with children, and have had many ask me specifically if children trained with the adults. The fact that they did not was to them a benefit, and those are just the ones that asked.

The problem is that with any class, you have to tailor it for the students that are on hand, and children cannot learn at the same level as adults. So you are either teaching over the heads of the children, or you are teaching adults like children. You can't have both.

If you really want to have a kid and adult mixed class, do it as a separate class (outside of regular adult or children's classes) sometime in the week and advertise it as a "Mixed age workout" and a special benefit for those you want it. Don't teach anything in the class, just make it a tough workout doing that which your students already know (like drills or such).

[De_Franza]

I don't have the experience to give you any real advice, but I think the pizza boxes idea was smart.
Someone else said cheap yard signs are good too.
Tony's point about retaining your loyal customers/students is dead on the money. (sure, "customers" you may argue is a crass term, but ... do they train for free?) Got to keep a loyal core. New ones are good, but the lifers are better. No easy answer there, as life gets in the way for all of us.
Ultimately, you may need a smaller space with lower rent before you can't have any space. yeah, that bites, but there you have it.
Here's the grain of salt, I've never owned a school or even run one, so there's that.

In my experience, the kids separate is better. That said, in one school I trained with there was one class a week (of 3 or 4 weekly) that was 'mixed' and that was popular, but the 'real' training happened without the kids. They're just not ready, you can't talk about crushing windpipes and fighting off rapists with 9 year olds.

That all said: do try not to panic and keep faith in yourself and your mission. And the best of luck to you! I know I speak for all of us when I wish you success!

[Jonathan Randall]

As Tony stated earlier in the thread; I'd first look into why your attrition rate is so high. It could be just a fluke. These things can happen even in the best of schools. Less likely, but can happen.

However here are some of the reasons I have left a school:

1. Instructor demands loyalty and respect but does not return it

2. Classes cancelled often and without notice (or sufficient notice)

3. Arbitrary promotions - students who instructor likely thought would quit if they failed a test, pass, and with less effort and skill than some of those who are failed. Political promotions given - gups or kyus become dans quickly if they are needed to help teach classes or start a satellite school

4. Insufficient emphasis given to self-defence

5. Instructor has a personality disorder

[Tom Booker]

Much of what you're doing (and planning) in terms of marketing is sound, but be prepared for it to take time to get some traction among potential students and their families. Don't be discouraged if you don't see a big reaction right away. It may well be that you'll see things start to happen after the first of the year, when many people seek to get involved in something fresh and new. Even so, I would strongly suggest maintaining your marketing efforts now, and keeping them up at a vigorous pace.

So far in this discussion, the marketing/advertising ideas are all a "shotgun" approach -- trying to reach as many people as possible, but not very discriminating. Basically, aimed at anyone who might chance to stray into the path of the blast. Something I've found myself doing over the past several years of operating my own school is refining my ideas of who exactly it is I'm trying to communicate with -- and then focusing my efforts in that area. In my case, I'm trying to reach families with elementary-school aged children. I offer classes for the children, and later in the day for their parents. Trying to market to everybody and anybody is for MacDonald's and Coca-Cola; for a martial arts school, it just isn't effective.

Something that really helped me a few years back was to sit down and ask myself two questions: 1) What was the fundamental purpose of my teaching -- what was it that my students should gain from this experience? and 2) Who were the students I worked with most effectively and with the greatest mutual satisfaction? Answering these questions has helped me give my school stronger direction, and has allowed it to grow steadily if not dramatically.

I'm not suggesting that your answers will or should be my answers -- but I recommend asking yourself the questions.

Regarding your unstable current enrollment situation, I wouldn't be to quick to blame "The Recession", which has been with us for several years now. We're all of us looking at an ongoing shift in our social structure, and in attitudes toward personal consumption. Basically, as school owners and martial arts instructors, we have to be prepared to convincingly demonstrate the value of this experience for our prospective students and their families.

If we're perceived as simply teaching kicking and punching, that value is low. Our lessons are just another casual activity to take up some spare time. If it becomes a little inconvenient, or a little tedious -- our students drop out, with no real sense of having forfeited something worthwhile.

If what you are hearing from some of your students who have left is "I can't afford it", that can really have two meanings. One is just what they say -- they simply don't have the money to pay you for your instruction. The other meaning is "I don't value it."

The second one is really hard to accept -- I know from intimate personal experience. In my case, it was a truth I had to face. I went to work to create a program of instruction with greater value for my students. For me, it's an ongoing effort -- and an intensely satisfying one.

I see from the earlier posts that you've taken some heat over your mixed adult/child classes. I can also tell that this is something about your program that you believe is really worthwhile. I can tell you that I tried such classes myself a few years ago, and found them unsatisfactory -- even splitting up into seperate groups, as you do, neither adults nor children were well served by these classes. Their great appeal for my students was their convenience -- get all your martial arts instruction done in one quick stop. The appeal wore off pretty quickly, and most of the students involved in these classes left my school within a couple of months. These days, I stick to family-participation special events, and they serve our students and their families well.

While a workable lesson schedule is a must, too much convenience can make us look cheap and easy. No-one wants to talk to the guru who lives at the foot of the mountain -- they really want to talk to the guy at the top, because he's difficult to get to.

Also, these mixed adult/child lessons may be confusing for your prospective students and their families. If they see something going on in your school that isn't fairly readily comprehensible -- that they can't make sense of -- they're going to shy away from it. Or if it is something that looks to them either foolish or dangerous. At that point, they're going to go looking for something or someone else.

Again, I respect your commitment to these lessons, but I would try to look at them through the eyes of someone with no experience or understanding of the martial arts. What is it that they're going to see going on in these lessons? If they are in them, what is their experience of them going to be? What you intend to have happen in these lessons, and what is actually going on in them, may be very different.

[JWhiteSensei]

Well it may not hold water, but we sat down Saturday and worked out a schedule seperating kids from adults and smaller kids from the older ones. We also picked Wednesday as "Family Night" because a HUGE number of my students have always been family units who like to practice together as a family. I also told them that Saturday afternoon we would also start another Family Class because it simply works better for those who don't have time to haul their kids to class, come back for their own class, and figure out what to do with their kids while they are practicing themselves.

I'd like to make something very clear to everyone on this board, I thank you for your advise. A lot of it has been very helpful. But I DO NOT and HAVE NEVER made exscuses for myself or my dojo. It is something in my life that I have made both finacial and personal sacrifices for to the point of getting so upside down on my mortgage that I had to re-organize it through the company two years ago. And guess what? It has been worth every single battle that I have fought for it. That is the reason that I came here and humbly asked for advise. As for seperating the classes, it is not part of the core structure of the dojo. It goes against the very philosophies that built the school up in the first place: a dojo where you and your children could practice, grow, and learn together. I actually tried a strictly adult class for six months. It was a total disaster. Yet, taking advise from people who have more or different experiance than myself, I am willing to try to split the classes again. So I thank you all for your ideas. I appreciate them and am willing to impliment many of them because, as I said, the dojo means so much to me that I am willing to experiment with change. But please don't accuse me of making excuses when I asked for help and am attempting to learn from other's experience. I find that unfair and uncalled for.

[TonyU]

When you're giving advise to someone and with every piece the response is but...it comes across as excuses.
You're correct though, I do not know you or your situation so my apologies if I came across as a hard a**.

One other thing I would like to add. When you make significant changes you may loses some students before you build back up. This is normal. Some people don't like change. Do not stress over this, It's normal. You're not going to be able to please everyone. If we could we would all have over a 1,000 students.

[Underdog]

I can appreciate your motives, especially considering it is what you built your school upon. It is deffinately an admirable goal, and a much more unuiqe one in the Martial community.

I would just like to say that on some level, at least to make enough profit to keep the school going, you have to keep in mind that you are selling a product. The product is Martial Art's training. While I do not want to discredit your approach to family martial art's training, for the particular product, I believe there is a very narrow market. It will largely come down to kid's who are wanting to do Martial art's, and even farther down from that will be the group that has the willing parent to train as well.

With this "Product" mentality in mind, there are many other markets in which Martial Arts would be beneficial. Such as a competitive class that perhaps take's part in tournaments, or a Traditional class for those that enjoy the culture of your particular art and wish to learn the History and Forms, as well as the meaning behind it.

I don't mean to sound as though I am emphasizing the marketing of Martial Art's, but rather that the desire to train Martial Art's is different from person to person, and the more you specify certain area's the more likely someone will be able to find something that fit's right for them.

EDIT: I also thought just now that you could also offer private lesson's. There are some people who just aren't comfortable training in front of other people. Or possible private group lesson's as well. I don't know if that's something your interested in doing, but I figured it could fall under the "Every little bit helps" category.

[JWhiteSensei]

Tony: Sometimes we have to come across as a harda** to get a point across. I appreciate your advise.
Victor: Thank you. Believe it or not, my mindset is turning more and more toward the marketing approach. I've alwasy did marketing just enough to get the school's name out there and get a few students in the door. Now I'nm seeing thnigs a bit differentsly. I actually really like the idea of private lessons. I offer them now to my students who need extra training but have shyed away from doing it for just anyone in general because I've felt that to overcome shyness it is good to be around a group. But that is definately something I'm going to begin offering I think

[Underdog]

I myself don't see a strong marketing approach as a bad thing, as long as the product is always genuine. Since your not making your living off of the school, and any money you make from the school can be returned to benefit the school, it's nothing but a positive outcome. Thing's such as new or more gym equipment could be a possibility. As long as the moral behind it is alway's to deliver genuine martial art's training, and it is to the benefit of the gym, then it will only help you succeed. Your student's will recognize it as well and appreciate the effort's, and it will be something they will be proud to be a part of. If your marketing "goal" is to share something your passionate about, with as many people as possible then I really believe only good thing's can come of it.

[wab25]

Just my quick two cents here. I am also taking notes on the the advertising advice being given here. But, my two cents revolves around mixing kids and adults. One thing to take into account, is that you are putting yourself at risk. When you teach kids, you can easily have a background check run on you and any other instructors or helpers of any kind. Basically, anyone that comes into contact with the kids. But, with mixing adults and kids into the class, your control of who comes into contact with the kids is reduced greatly. Further, you don't have to have a real incident to have a real problem. One accusation, even if it is false, will cause you a lot of trouble. While I would certainly invite the parents to stay and watch the class, mixing adults in the class gives another opportunity for some adult to do the unthinkable or for a student to make the claim. At least by controlling who is in contact with the kids, and having done background checks on them, you can claim due diligence.

I am not telling you how to run your school, just thought I would bring it up for your consideration.

[wingchundo.girl]

I can sympathize. It happened to us too. It started with the decline of the car industry here in Michigan. Back around 2006 and 2007 the car companies offered buy outs to employees, offering about 100k. Those that took the buyout knew it would give them an opportunity to do something they couldn't afford to do just a few months before. Either open their own business or get out of dodge.

My school is located in a high to middle class neighborhood. More than half of my clientele worked for or were connected to the auto industry, and those that took the buyout moved out of the state. Since my school is geared toward families, both my adult classes and children's classes almost emptied out. It was scary time. Michigan is the only state in the union to lose population and over 25,000 people left our county alone.

I manage to hang on month after month, never knowing for sure that we would make it through the next two or three months. But eventually it got better.

What helped is that we had a few things going for us. One, our school is a kung fu school, somewhat of a novelty, plus a lot of movies are talking more about kung fu so people started looking for it. We have a lineage that a lot of folks like, it gives us a wow factor. Our chief instructor is the inheritor of the system, so you are learning from the best. And also that our art really works, offering great self-defense skills. This brought back the adults.

The kids didn't. In another thread on this forum I wrote about how I was thinking of scraping the whole children's program and concentrating only on adults.

I decided to embark on a marketing program that was totally dedicated in getting the word out. This year we have had a resurgence in both classes and the marketing done was low cost and effective.

Once you get them in the door and in your classroom then the real work begins. Because what you want to do is build is a core group. A core group is a group of folks that have been with you a long time. They find value in what you do and what to stay members. A lot of people think that folks want to get their black belts. A lot of them do, but what they want more has nothing to do with belts, it has more to do with what the school brings to their lives.

After 24 years in business, our core group has grown steadily bigger. This allows me to have a consistent account receivable, (tuition I can depend on for years.) How do you create the kind of atmosphere where people want to stay for their black belts and beyond.

A lot of instructors have identity crisis - not their own, but what the school's identity is. You get tougher, or softer. Trying different programs that students tell you they think they want. You try all kinds of marketing to get the word out. But if your clientele is going out the back door while new folks are coming in the front, then there is something, maybe something they can't define, but can feel - there is something they need and they're not finding it.

Sorry this is getting so long, but I will give you a list of things we did to get our school noticed and thought of as one of the best in the city.

Jim, I'll list them next.

[wingchundo.girl]

The internet is most helpful in getting the word out. When I ask potential students how they heard about us, it is always the internet. What is really exciting is they are starting to quote things they have heard about us. They don't know where they heard it or read it, but they know we are one of the best. How do they know this?

Because I wrote it that way. Here's the steps I took.

1. Put your school on every dojo locator board, on any martial arts sites that list dojos, martial art classes. Usually they ask for a short synopsis of your business. Make sure you put one in. What you put in your synopsis is important, it defines your school's identity.

2. Put your school on every community calendar available in your area. Start looking for your local community newspapers websites. They let you make a school listing, and post events on the calendar. Again a good synopsis, maybe one with a more community flavor would be good here.

3. If you want to attract kids, check out local children's magazine websites. We have one here called Metro Parent. Also ParentsConnect is a Nickelodeon website which lets you place a listing. Again customize your message here for your audience.

4. Have a website? If not, because of the expense, then get your business a blog page. Many people use their blog as their website and its free. The templates are awesomely easy to use and change. Upload pictures, videos, are super easy. Choose a blog name that has meaning like your school name. Put that website/blog address on all your flyers. Direct people to the blog page for more info.

5. Join local contests, usually put out by local television news or newspapers and list your business. Time for another synopsis.

6. All the above asks folks for referrals on their sites. Get a few of your customers to write referrals.

7. Write a press release regarding your school on a free press release website.

8. Get a local newspaper to do a story of your work with an organization, charity, or fundraiser. Your work with the boys and girls club might be a good public relations story. Or write the story yourself and take pictures and send them in. Sometimes they will print your story because it saves them time and they need a fill story.

9. Facebook presence, although search engines don't quote from this area, at least it is another area where the public can find out about your school.

What does all the above get you? Search engines will pick these items up. When someone uses them your school will start coming up. You might fill up a page or two with all those entries. This gives your school free exposure, a perceived credibility, the opportunity to give your school an identity, one that you want people to come into your school and quote back to you.

In your synopsis talk about what best about your school. Talk about your community involvement with the Boys and Girls club. Check out what your competitors say. They all say the exact same thing. Discipline, focus, better grades, blah, blah. How do you differentiate yourself from every other cookie cutter dojo. Because the public doesn't really care. Its what you can bring to the table, how you effect them personally, that keeps them in the kwoon/dojo.

You are developing your own reputation, credibility, and buzz. You want your customers to find you too and the internet is a free way of getting them to notice you. It's highly cost effective - but one caveat. You have to back up what you write.

Also post copies of any write ups for your customers to read. You want them to know that they should be proud of your school's accomplishments as well.

Now that you have them in the door, how do you keep them.

[wingchundo.girl]

Now you have them in the door, what do you do to keep your clients.

What brought our adult population back? I have to admit, it was our program. For the reasons listed previously we have a few advantages, kung fu (novelty in the area), a cool lineage, and so on.

But what kept them was the teaching method and the atmosphere of the school. Adults are just like children. They want to be mentally engaged and have fun. They do not want to go to yet another place in their lives that is physically draining. They want someplace that can give them that "calgon take me away" kind of feeling.

Our training is all about technique. The students sweat but they don't remember how they got that way, they are so engaged. I can't stand conventional exercises. They're so boring and tedious. It reminds me of a hamster running in its wheel. I always feel like valuable time is being wasted when I could be learning something. Plus most everyone of my students already has a membership to some fitness club somewhere. Every one leaves class with a big smile on their face, slapping each other on the back, and feeling a real sense of accomplishment. No egos are allowed and all my advance students work with basics in every class.

What brought the kids back? The internet identity I developed regarding our children's program did its job. We also won two years in a row the Nickelodeon's Parents Picks Award in 2009, 2010. I can't tell you how valuable this was to creating our identity.

What keep the kids? Well one advantage I think we have is that we are a husband and wife team. Parents seem to really like this aspect of our business. We mimic the family dynamic. Some of the kids look at us as another set of 'parental' coaches that offer great stability in their lives. I have kids from the age of 7 and who are now 17 and in my adult class (core group). We offer a great program, exciting, engaging, and believe me, wipes me out. But its what needs to happen. No child in our school can show negative peer pressure to another. all our kids are highly supportive of one another. How we effect the lives of their children is what keeps parents coming back.

How to we keep parents happy? Our parent gallery is always full. Even parents need a place where they can socialize. Their busy schedules don't allow that as much anymore and they appreciate it when it happens. Our school gives them another opportunity and sometimes their only opportunity, for adult conversation, or reading, using their computers, and relax for an hour. Free coffee and tea are available. For sale is protein bars, gatorades, water, juice, trail mix and granola bars for families on the run. I left a book out once, and realized that seven different parents were reading the same book at different times. I think I inadvertently started a book club.

Behind the parent gallery is a small play area for younger siblings. The moms and dads get a chance to relax for a while hour while they are engaged. It's a win, win.

But we are hard core in developing programs that give our customers what they want. Self-defense and martial arts are the means to an end. Positive growth and personal development for everyone associated with the school from top to bottom through the arts are why our school is successful.

The internet allowed us to tell our story, our philosophy of teaching, and what our ideals were. Soon people were coming in the door and repeating my own words back to me. Enlightened.

Although this is our experience, and you might not feel is relatable to your situation, I hope you find some of it useful. Jim, wishing you much success and hang in there. It's sure to get better with such a dedicated teacher like you at the helm. :bow:

Liz Ambrose

[Brian R. VanCise]

Children, Teens and Adults all need seperate classes. They all have different needs. You may be surprised in the new enrollee's you might get in each class if you can implement this.

[JWhiteSensei]

Thanks, Guys. Liz...you seriously need to write a book.

Good news. A family group of three and another of my oldest students are back. I have signed up two new students and a young lady came in Wednesday night with her mom. She works weekends but is slated to do the 2 free classes I offer to prospective students. She was in another school here locally and hated it.
What sold her on me? All the community service and family oriented atmosphere.
We have not heard back from the Boys and Girls Club but it is still a very real opportunity.
We are seperating the children and adult classes and have implimented the "Family Night" classes.
We passed out flyers at the parade Saturday and I made some good contacts. Even one of my adult students made a couple.
There was something I read in one of the marketing sites I was on or in an e-mail I got. "Teach each student like it's the last time you get a chance to teach them because it might be" (paraphrased) I have adopted that philosophy.
I don't want to speak out of term and jinx the whole damn thing but at least I'm starting to see a little pin point of light at the end of the tunnel

[Abbax8]

That's great, Jim!

Dennis

[JWhiteSensei]

I'd like to ask another question. This one is simply for your opinions. I didn't know where to post it so I thought here would be as good of place as any. (If there is a more proper place, you guys feel free to move it)

I've been doing a lot of marketing research since this began. I have noticed somethig and wanted your opinion on an ethics question.

Is it ethical to use your position or standing in your church to promote your MA school?

To me, it does not. Even though we teach positive qualities in the dojo, I attempt to not bring religion into the picture. some of you know from a few of my early posts here that I am an ordained minister. I simply am not a Christian minister. I know a guy who is a Deacon in his church and uses that position to promote his school. I know there are several "Christian Karate" organizations out there. This is not the situation in this case.

[TonyU]

I'd like to ask another question. This one is simply for your opinions. I didn't know where to post it so I thought here would be as good of place as any. (If there is a more proper place, you guys feel free to move it)

I've been doing a lot of marketing research since this began. I have noticed somethig and wanted your opinion on an ethics question.

Is it ethical to use your position or standing in your church to promote your MA school?

To me, it does not. Even though we teach positive qualities in the dojo, I attempt to not bring religion into the picture. some of you know from a few of my early posts here that I am an ordained minister. I simply am not a Christian minister. I know a guy who is a Deacon in his church and uses that position to promote his school. I know there are several "Christian Karate" organizations out there. This is not the situation in this case.
I wouldn't. I would keep it out of the dojo. Like other things you may attract a few but turn off many.

[Webmaster]

I wouldn't. I would keep it out of the dojo. Like other things you may attract a few but turn off many.

I agree with Tony, keep it out of the dojo. It's one of the divisive things like politics, sexual preference and the like that will cause any group to become polarized. Remember that "positive" for one person may be "hostile" to another.

Having been in the martial arts nearly 40 years now and run BudoSeek since 1997, I have met many folks from various Christian martial arts organizations, and with a few exceptions, I have been... unimpressed. :rolleyes:

[JWhiteSensei]

Well I see we all, so far, share the same idea about it.

Personally I think it's unethical to use your position in a church or any civic organization to promote your school.

[Abbax8]

Not promoting your position but if your church has a church bulletin,maybe you could advertise your school in it.

Dennis

[Cliff Hargrave]

I have met many folks from various Christian martial arts organizations, and with a few exceptions, I have been... unimpressed. :rolleyes:

Me too. They are usually pretty bad at both...

[Jonathan Randall]

Me too. They are usually pretty bad at both...

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!

I was in a "Christian" Kempo school in the 1980's. To my then inexperienced eyes, they were "awesome" karate guys. I left due to immense moral failings of all concerned - but still thought the training I had received was "good stuff". Compared to the ATA from whence I had come, it had its merits. 'Nuff said.

However; older and wiser, I knew by the early 1990's that they had terrible basics, sloppy footwork and their speed had more to do with slapping each other than actual, fight-stopping movements.

Since then, I have been able to find out nothing about their real lineage. They were an independent Kempo school (and org.), so I know believe it was a made-up style with dubious lineage and quality. Oh, and they did the JKD thing too...

Nope. Keep religion out of your dojo. It is a bad combination. Allow your religious faith to show by your personal example of integrity.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Cliff posted quite a bit of good information above! Particularly look at the websites that he listed. :cool:

I have to agree on the religion issue that is some thing in my opinion that should be left out of the Training Hall!

[DragonMind]

I would like to address a specific aspect of your marketing, if I may: Internet traffic. The majority of martial arts school sites are AWFUL when it comes to marketing. Cliff's advice to look at squeeze pages is right on. For those not familiar with the concept, a squeeze page is a page designed to do exactly one thing - get you to respond with your contact information. Remember those long sales letters you get in the mail that all end with Contact us now? The reason you see so many is because THEY WORK. The beauty of Internet marketing is that there is now a better alternative than long sales prose and that is video. Look at the elements of sales copy (and there are tons of good books on that; start with Dan Kennedy) and write it into a script instead. Then do a 3 minute video and put that on your squeeze page.

OK, once you have your page, you need to generate traffic. The hands-down best traffic generator out there is back links. Those are embedded links in articles posted on other sites using the keywords you want to get ranked for in the search engines. For example, let's say you want a squeeze page to focus on your anti-bullying program (you DO have one right?). Your video will show your program's benefits, have testimonials from your students, etc. and collect that contact info. Now go look for sites that are related to your topic (e.g. parent sites, Mommy blogs, etc) and offer to provide them an article on The Bully Epidemic in America in return for allowing you to put some links back to your site. Practically every web master needs a source of good fresh material so it shouldn't be hard to find 20 or so sites like that. Then write (or hire a writer, they're amazingly cheap) a 600-800 word WELL-WRITTEN piece on the topic and put three links back to your site in the article on specific keywords you want to rank for. Just ask yourself, if I wanted to find information on bullying what would I search on and that will give you a good start. Do that 20 times making sure that each article is unique; Google HATES duplicate articles. If you get twenty articles out there with 3 links each to your site on quality sites (page rank 3 or higher), you WILL see traffic. The most basic law of Internet marketing is Traffic + Conversions = Profit (thanks to Ken McCarthy for that).

Oh yeah, put a Blog on your site and update it REGULARLY. Google punishes stale sites.

[wingchundo.girl]

I would like to address a specific aspect of your marketing, if I may: Internet traffic. The majority of martial arts school sites are AWFUL when it comes to marketing. Cliff's advice to look at squeeze pages is right on. For those not familiar with the concept, a squeeze page is a page designed to do exactly one thing - get you to respond with your contact information. Remember those long sales letters you get in the mail that all end with Contact us now? The reason you see so many is because THEY WORK. The beauty of Internet marketing is that there is now a better alternative than long sales prose and that is video. Look at the elements of sales copy (and there are tons of good books on that; start with Dan Kennedy) and write it into a script instead. Then do a 3 minute video and put that on your squeeze page.

OK, once you have your page, you need to generate traffic. The hands-down best traffic generator out there is back links. Those are embedded links in articles posted on other sites using the keywords you want to get ranked for in the search engines. For example, let's say you want a squeeze page to focus on your anti-bullying program (you DO have one right?). Your video will show your program's benefits, have testimonials from your students, etc. and collect that contact info. Now go look for sites that are related to your topic (e.g. parent sites, Mommy blogs, etc) and offer to provide them an article on The Bully Epidemic in America in return for allowing you to put some links back to your site. Practically every web master needs a source of good fresh material so it shouldn't be hard to find 20 or so sites like that. Then write (or hire a writer, they're amazingly cheap) a 600-800 word WELL-WRITTEN piece on the topic and put three links back to your site in the article on specific keywords you want to rank for. Just ask yourself, if I wanted to find information on bullying what would I search on and that will give you a good start. Do that 20 times making sure that each article is unique; Google HATES duplicate articles. If you get twenty articles out there with 3 links each to your site on quality sites (page rank 3 or higher), you WILL see traffic. The most basic law of Internet marketing is Traffic + Conversions = Profit (thanks to Ken McCarthy for that).

Oh yeah, put a Blog on your site and update it REGULARLY. Google punishes stale sites.

Excellent! This advice is invaluable. Thanks DragonMind!

[jjaje]

Both WingChunDo girl and DragonMind had great information.
For SEO (search engine optimization) links for the sake of links do not factor in to page rankings as highly inthe past. SEO consultants that basically do a huge linking service are a little behind the time. More important is what DragonMind referred to as the "squeeze" pages. We refer to it as on page optimization. Basically having a page dedicated to particular topic, the more specific the better.

For example karate is pretty wide open, and there is a lot of search traffic for the term karate. Shotokan Karate would be more specific and easier to optimize for, except not many people are really searching for that. However a page which explains in detail "karate for self defense", "karate and fitness" or even more specific "karate and weight loss" - if you have a page for each of those special topics, with a certain amount of key word density (meaning the term karate and weight loss are in the body of the article a few times), plus a header or two with similar phrases in the article, then it will be on page optimized. From there, if you can get a few links to it, it improves the ranking.

Some basic tips:

Some webpage creation programs put a lot of "stuff" in the background that really is superfluous. Google doesn't like that. Use a web page tool that is google friendly, Wordpress is not only google friendly, but free.
If you use Wordpress, make sure you get the add in all in one SEO, it makes some of the SEO stuff way easier.
Whatever you use for a web page, make sure you use google analytics to follow your traffic trends. As Barry mentioned you are penalized for having ablog that is too quiet. I've noticed that when our blog is active, traffic is quite a bit larger. No brainer, but confirms the theory.
Place good pictures on your page and blog. Enough to be interesting, not so many that people skip looking at them. Use similar keywords for your pictures, and alt text on your pictures. I'm amazed how many other sites have linked to a picture that was on our web page/blog.
Local listings are very important. if you have not done so, claim all the local listings you can (google, yahoo, yelp, manta...) plus list in all the martial arts directories you can.
If your city has a patch (city.patch.com) list there too, place announcements there also.
Setup a facebook business page. Offer a simple free download (a video, pictures or something of value) for liking your page. Then you can create announcements and events for your facebook friends on your like list.
Offer the same cool download to anyone that fills out a form. This allows you to capture their emails, to market to later.
Google Adwords and Facebook ads are inexpensive, and you can control the daily amount. Although research suggests a decent percentage of the population do not click the advertise links, several do. This is a good way to get people to recognize your web page or like you on facebook, for a while, until you end the ads later.
Ask some to students make reviews of your business in google, yahoo, yelp... this really helps. Don't make it look like they are spamming though.
Link Twitter to Facebook posts. One message goes out on multiple feeds.


You have to stay on the internet marketing stuff, and the concept of "inbound marketing" is new to many people. However, it works and it's cheap. Inbound marketing really is more about "sweat equity" than spending money on an expensive ad campaign.

[Underdog]

Not promoting your position but if your church has a church bulletin,maybe you could advertise your school in it.

Dennis

I agree that this is a pretty good idea. That's where I would leave it though, for the same reasons others have stated. Just out of curiousity, would you consider it equally unethical if the situation were reversed, using your Martial Art's title to in some way help your career (Not necissarily directed towards you as a Minister, just a career general) ? Just a food for thought question, I'm not looking for an answer.

[JWhiteSensei]

An update.

Well we are back it seems. I followed a lot of the advise given here and in combination with some other things my student base seems to be picking back up.

One thing I want to mention is a lesson I learned. every year our town does a Trick Or Treat On Main St. for Halloween. Businesses pass out candy...or coupons...to the children. I made up 300 coupons for 3 Free Classes. They were gone withoin 45 minutes of the start of the event. I printed off 500 more and they were gone within an hour and a half. I have had 6 sign ups from those coupons and 3 more possibilities.

We have passed out flyers before at community events but I think the idea of people coming to you and wanting what you're passing out goes a lot further. It may be something in the psyche' that tell people it's better to ask for something and get it rather than have someone shove it in their face.

We also did a 6 week Free Women's Self -Defense Class which generated 1 new student.

Thanks everyone for your help and support. And a special thanks to whoever it was that hooked me up with Mike Masse. I found some great marketing strategies thru him.

[Walt12524]

I hope that this wasn't covered earlier, but here is my history.

I opened my dojo with no business experience at all. First two years I lossed over 30k. At that point I was finally ready to listen to advice. My lessons where 3 free or modestly priced intro class which ended in a positive experience being promoted to white belt, after that was a sales close. All classes that are taught must be upbeat, positive and close with excitement.
I think you have a good marketing plan which gets people in the door but you need to retain them especially during the slow periods July and August and November to January.

I hope this helps in the long run.

[Webmaster]

Great advice Walter. Thank you for sharing. :bow: