Jeet Kune Do: A Non-Eclectic method

[Kenji]

I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but the term eclectic infers that you are adding something just for the sake of adding it. Example: "I'm really good at boxing, so why don't I just throw in some aikido and maybe a little Tae Kwon Do, that should make me an awsome fighter." "Any'ole Tae kwon Do or aikido technique will work, I mean I'm lacking when it comes to kicking and grappling." This way of thinking is wrong,you should instead truly observ each technique , and see how it does when used in conjunction with your natural abilities, and whether or not it fills a gap or creates a knew ability. Then test it in combat to view its level of effectiveness before adding it to your own personal method of combat. This is what I thought widening your technical ability in Jeet Kune Do was all about.:(

[Jeff Burger]

Per forum rules please include your real name.


JKD is not about adding more arts.
The techniques have to flow and blend.
I have done many arts trying to be a complete martial artist but its not that easy when you start to put it all together.
Doing any one thing against someone doing the same thing is different when both people can do anything.
I had problems with the change of ranges. Kick like this style, punch like that style and grapple like this style sounds great.
Problem is the boxing stance didnt allow me to kick well, the Mauy Thai stance makes me open to the shoot, going for the take down too soon gets me hit.
Unless your brought up in a system that covers all the ranges i think your going to have the same problem having a physical and mental stall in the change of ranges (kicking mode, boxing mode, grappling mode).
I say that cause I see a better flow in my students as they are not confused as they have trained with with all 3 as possibilities from the start.

Daily reduction is a principle too.
Bruce Lee took alot out as well.
Alot of JKD schools are teaching traditional Jun Fan Kickboxing and from there taking or adding what is specifically your own.

Bruce Lee studied other style, but not so much to add to his art but to figure out how his art could deal with them.

You may add a technique from another art and still be doing it in a traditional / fixed / stiff / stuck way.

A big JKD principle is simplicity. Simplicity is a 2 sided coin. You want to be as simple as you can be and as sophisticated as you have to be.

I think eclectic is more in your head than in your technique being free to try and do other things that maybe "outside"a given style.
If you spar just spar not thinking about what you have to do to be such and such style.

Its too easy to get stuck or influenced. I know for myself if I have a Karate gi on I fight a little more Karateish, if I have a Kung Fu uniform on I move more Kung Fuish.

Jeff

[Kenji]

I remember when I started studying the ranges I got stuck and very confused as well. Its been about two years since then and I am just starting to be able to move smoothly between them. But it was definately worth the effort. I dominate in sparring because of it.

Your the first person I have heard talk about the influence the uniform you have on can effect the way you fight or train. Its really strange! I know when I am wear my Karate uniform I tend to think on Shotokan Karate terms. But if I am in street cloths, my method of fighting is completly unattatched to any style.

I also try to not stay within just one style when I spar as well. Much to the resentment of my instructor. He just doesn't want me beating up the old crusty brown belts.;)

[Erik]

Your definition is grossly incorrect.

Eclectic -
Selecting or employing individual elements from a variety of sources, systems, or styles: an eclectic taste in music; an eclectic approach to managing the economy.
Made up of or combining elements from a variety of sources: “a popular bar patronized by an eclectic collection of artists, writers, secretaries and aging soldiers on reserve duty” (Curtis Wilkie).

[HwaLangee]

What Jeff says is 100% true.
If you observe Bruce lee movies,you can see the blending of styles...one moment hes in wing chun..and next when hes closer to his opponent he'll blend into western boxing..then a grapple.

[Jeff Burger]

HwaLangGee
Per forum rules include your real full name.

Jeff

[Spartan]

The way I understand it. JKD approach MA as a mean to an end. The end is victory in combat. The mean is any techique, method, irrespective of style, that is simple, direct and economical, that accomplish the end.

In Other MA, people would say, 'if I don't chamber my leg such and such way, then I am not doing XYZ style of MA. So I have to kick this way and punch that way b/c that is the way my style of MA dictates.' In JKD, people would say, 'if I chamber this way, I can get this effect and if I chamber that way, then I would get that effect. And I will use the chamber to deliver the effect needed to win.'

In JKD, the focus is on the result. In other MA, the process is as important as the result. A lot of the time, the focus on the process comes at the expense of the result. The flaw lies in the notion that the techniques within their style are optimal. Hence if you don't perform in accordance to the technical dictate of their style, then you cannot possibly achieve optimal result. Ignorance and arrogance in one package. Very efficient indeed. Any system that is closed, will eventually die of calsification.

Needless to say, JKD is not the holy grail of MA. It is not even a fighting method nor a system nor a style. It is laughable that how JKD has been distorted by its disciples. JKD is nothing more than Bruce Lee's thinking on fighting skills. He labelled it a fancy name and the name stuck. He said so himself.

Some people say JKD is adding of techiques irrespective of styles. Some people say no, JKD is not adding but substracting. The reality is, JKD is BOTH. You add what is useful and substract what is not. Useful for what? WINNING the fight! To hell with tradition. To hell with obedience to the teachings of the founders. To hell with ritual. To hell with philosophy. To win the fight is everything! It is the only thing. If you lost the fight and ended up dead, then all that tradition, philosophy, ritual, and your founders' good grace from the far beyond, ain't gonna add up to a stink pile of monkey crap!

[Bad Karma]

The "flaw" of JKD is the lack of understanding the foundation of JKD. Structure is everything. It is well defined, but so few understand it.

A word to the wise...Bruce Lee movies are NOT the place to find JKD, but he does show you little hints at times.

I would highly recommend someone who's serious about researching JKD to get in contact with Patrick Strong, Jesse Glover, and Lamar Davis. These three individuals...FOUR, if you count Steve Golden (Ed Parker Black Belt and student of Bruce Lee)...and ask the questions. Do a web search and get in contact with them. I've been very fortunate in being able to speak with all of them and their insight, wit, and honesty are just impressive as heck. You couldn't hope to meet better people.

Peace

[Jeff Burger]

How about Dan Inosanto.

Video wise one of Inosanto's students Steve Grody does an excellent job of the Jun Fan Kick Boxong base in his 4 tape series called "Essential Self Defense".

So many saying they teach JKD are not following the whole idea of it.
Thats why I prefer the Jeet Kune Do Concepts (Inosanto) group.

Jeff

[Spartan]

How many of them talk about Bruce Lee's conditioning methods? Do they know how Bruce Lee trained for speed and strength?

An "intercepting fist or foot" would just bounce off the target, if the power and speed are not there to back it up.

[Bad Karma]

Jeff, Dan "The Man" Inosanto is an awesome martial artist but he's not a resource for JF/JKD, IMHO. He's a reputable instructor with a reputable background, but not the guy I would personally seek out for JF/JKD.

Patrick Strong & Lamar Davis are both knowledgable in how Bruce trained for speed and power. Matter of fact, Patrick has a video out for each those. You've not been hit until you've been hit by Patrick...holy living! Patrick impressed me most when he demonstrated some of the basic principles of structure to grappling. That wasn't the focus of the seminar, but I wish we could have gotten more into the subject.

Peace

[Jeff Burger]

I have to say I like Dan's "concepts" approach better. Had Bruce Lee lived JKD would have definately gone through changes. Non one can know what those changes would have been but there would have been some.
All these guys who teach what Bruce Lee did are not teaching JKD in my opinion the are teaching Jun Fan Kick Boxing.

To bad there had to be bad feelings from the nucleus towards Dan. I see it as jealously and want for control over the name JKD.

Jeff

[Bad Karma]

No doubt JKD would have continued to go through changes and the three schools he had (Seattle, Oakland, LA) are a good representation. Each school taught something a little different from the other. The specifics as to why...I can't say for certain. I'm sure there are more than one or two reasons for it. There is such a thing as Jun Fan Kick Boxing, but that's not JF/JKD. There are differences.

I can't comment on bad feelings towards Dan from the Nucleus, but I do know that Dan was invitied to join and Dan declined...as did other people. I think it's a shame if there's bad feelings between the Nucleus and Dan. Your speculation may or may not be accurate, but people are people and they never cease to amaze me. ;) Is the Nucleus even functional at present? I admittedly have not had the time to keep current on things in the JKD world.

Personally, I like that Dan's calling his material or had his material labeled JKD Concepts. It works. It's his.

Peace

[Spartan]

...Patrick Strong & Lamar Davis are both knowledgable in how Bruce trained for speed and power. Matter of fact, Patrick has a video out for each those. You've not been hit until you've been hit by Patrick......Is it the same stuff that Ted Wong talked about?

[Bad Karma]

Dunno what Ted Wong talked about, so... :confused:

Peace