Which would you recommend

[Sean Reilly]

I have a 13 year old daughter who has mild Asbergers (spelling?) Disease (a mild form of autisum). She is mostly a very normal young teenage girl with a few minor social problems regarding mixing with people. But she is getting better each day.

She has always enjoyed physical activities but not so great at team sports and has always needed assistance with her normal school work and yet is a fantastic speller and can remember things like large numbers. She is now interested in MA's.

In her local area there is a JiDoKwan TKD club (9th Dan BB Korean Linegae) and a Judo Dojo.

I have already spoken with her and my Ex-Wife (we finally agree on something) and suggested trying out both arts before deciding plus I have explained to my daughter that it is not about beating anyone else but she must concentrate on being the best MA'ist that She can be.

Sorry, after all that..... Which would you recommend to her and why?

Appreciate your in-put.


Cheers



Sean

[tkdcanada]

Well, when my kids and I decided to take up a MA, we went to all of the MA clubs in our area and tried them out to get a feel for them and the schools. We tried Karate, Kung Fu and TKD. Then, we decided based on which fit in with us the best. It was a draw between Kung Fu and TKD. We chose TKD and it has been a year now and we are loving it. But since one MA is really no better than another, I think it should be all about what feels good to you and your daughter. Probably more important than the art itself is making sure that the instructor is a sensitive one whom your daughter will be able to connect with. This factor was largely my guide and I am not sorry. I believe we have come so far in the last year largely because of the family atmosphere of our school and the caringness of our instructors. On the other hand, that is precisely why I didn't choose Karate (here). I don't think Karate is bad, but in my area the instructor was very couterproductive in his attitude and the way he dealt with the students and that turned me off. It in no way reflects the art, I'm sure but that's why I think it's so important to base your decision on how well you can connect with whoever's in charge.

Hope this helps a little.
Michleine

[lau gar]

what are her aims in martial arts?

[Sean Reilly]

what are her aims in martial arts?

Well Tim, to my daughter the most important requirements are:

1) Have fun.

2) Accomplish as much as possible (not looking for a BB @ this time) but to be able to progress and track that at her own speed (mostly self esteem based).

3) Have fun.

4) Make new friends.

5) Physical activity.

6) HAVE FUN.


Cheers:D

Sean

[Shukyoku]

This is a question that everyone asks, but the answer is so simple. She should do what she wants to do. If she thinks that flipping/throwing people is cool, go with that. If she likes the idea of kicking people in the head, cool beans. But if she is doing what she enjoys most, then she is more likely to pay attention and keep with it.

[lau gar]

Originally posted by Shukyoku
This is a question that everyone asks, but the answer is so simple. She should do what she wants to do. If she thinks that flipping/throwing people is cool, go with that. If she likes the idea of kicking people in the head, cool beans. But if she is doing what she enjoys most, then she is more likely to pay attention and keep with it.
I was just about to recommend something like sport tkd when i read this post. I totally agree.

[shortstick]

Mr. Rielly, speaking as both a father and a person who instructed TKD for 7 years full time, I think the culture of the school will be more important over the style. Make sure you sit down with the head instructor and talk about how he will be able to meet your daughters needs. Hopefully between your two choices they will have a positive atmosphere for kids, so that your daughter will have fun, and build self esteem. Several years ago I had an 11 year old child with mild autism in the TKD school. he had some sensory problems with being touched, that along with the general fact that TKD starting out does not require as much fine motor skills may make TKD the better choice. #1 for me would be the school that seemed to interact with its kids in a positive manner.

Good Luck.

[Sean Reilly]

I understand and agree with all the comments regarding speaking with the teacher, regarding Ellen's abilities & limitations plus the fact it is the culture or attitude of the school that is most important.

Ellen has no
sensory problems with being touched but I appreciate your views Shortstick.

I guess now it is up to Ellen to decide what is better for her, an art based on wrestling like Judo or the stand up style of TKD? So I will meet with both teachers and get Ellen to try out both clubs & styles.

Thank you all for your views so far and I would still appreciate anything further on the matter.

Respectfully



Sean

[Trudie]

Hi Sean,

Its good to meet a fellow Shinbudo student on the Net! Have you looked into the Mighty Mites program through Fight Club? Dimi Tops is still running a Saturday class at Five Dock and Andrew Dickinson is running a Monday afternoon class at North Sydney and will be starting soon in Balmain. Not sure how this fits with your location.

Mighty Mites incorporates all the basic Shinbudo techniques including ground work (which we still do in the adult classes but mainly amongst senior belts ... but probably not as much as when you were there).

Might be worth investigating :wink2:
http://www.fightclub.com.au/

Good luck with finding something Ellen will enjoy!

Cheers
Trudie.

[Sean Reilly]

Hello Trudie

Yeah I would love to put Ellen in Mighty Mites but she lives in Brisbane with my Ex-Wife.

I have been at Dimi to 'wake up to himself' and move to Queensland where Fight Club would go off. Ha, Ha.




Sean:)

[sharonhawker]

Hi
I teach Wado Ryu karate in the UK. I have a student who has Aspergers Syndreome. He has been training with me for five years. He is now aged 14 and a 4th kyu.
When I first met him his balance and co-ordination was poor as was his attention span. He has improved in all these areas and, more importantly, has bags more confidence.
If your daughter finds a martial arts group she wants to join, whatever system, make sure the instructor is patient, tactful and willing to do HIS best to help your daughter do HER best.
Good luck :)
Sharon

[Sean Reilly]

Thanks Sharon

I was hoping to come across someone like yourself with previous experience with such a student.

Ellen has been involved in gymnastics for 4 of the last 6 years which has helped dramatically with her balance (part of the reasson we are happy for her to go with a MA now). And yes she still has some attention problems but according to her specialist that is due mostly to her visual perception. That is, her brain has difficulty in sometimes working out exactly what her eyes are seeing.

So you don't believe it matters (based on her challenges) which of the arts she does? Just like every other teenager out there she just has to enjoy what art she chooses?

Sean

[sharonhawker]

Hi Sean
No I don't beleive it matters which art. It will matter far more which instructor.
As long as your daughter is happy with the group she joins, it doesn't matter how quickly or slowly she progresses either. My student that has the same condition has taken a lot longer to get to 4th kyu but he is still learning and having fun at the same time.
Keep us posted on her progress.
Sharon:)

[Sean Reilly]

For those that are interested......

I spoke with Ellen's mother yesterday.

Judo is off the menu! She spoke with the teacher and he is closing the club in the next month (no idea why).

My Ex & my daughter have an appointment next week with the TKD instructor and my Ex has left a message with the service of a local Karate club too.

Cheers


Sean

[KenpoKev]

Sean,
My 14 yr old son is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome as well. We only realized this after a thorough diagnosis last year, prior to that we assumed ADD. Big difference!

I also have 2 students currently that are Asperger Syndrome. As a general FYI to folks reading this, Asperger's is also called the "Little Professor" syndrome, in that children with Aspergers often retain an incredible level of knowledge in a given area, often an unusual area of specialization. For example, a 5 yr old child who memorizes every model of current production vehicle, it's engine diplacement and general specifications. (your's truly in 1963) Yes, Aspergers is considered hereditary. My son maintains some pretty amazing knowledge in areas of his interest. In your daughter's case, Sean, it is very unusual as Asperger's is largely prevalent in males.

One of the most common difficulties for AS kids is their ability to read social situations and non-verbal communications most of us immediately recognize. I think a good martial art teacher can also help a child develop non-verbal recognition. For the most part, a good counselor can help a child learn these communication skills as well. You will often find an AS child to become highly successful academically...college campuses are largely populated by professors who by all accounts were AS kids. There is hope, Sean.

With the AS kids I have taught, I find a few things have helped. They often loose focus, much the same as an ADD child will, so I keep classes moving fairly rapidly. Some AS kids are highly sensitive to certain tactile issues or physical contact. Be very observant for the initial classes for any cues from your daughter that something may create a negative response. Something as inane as the material of a gi could make a huge difference. If there is a resistance to physical contact as one of my students displays, we overcame it by having him partner with the same child in each class (a year older and couple ranks higher) This strategy took a little while, but has helped the lad get used to physical contact and he now can work with others occasionally.

I assume you have had your daughter's hearing checked in depth. If not, that is another item to look carefully into. AS children often display a slight imbalance in hearing. In my son's case, by placing him in a position so the teacher's voice was directed to his dominant ear, his ability to focus and filter out distracting noises. This may also effect how well your daughter functions in class. Sometimes a quieter dojo will provide a better learning environment.

Here is a link for some valuable information on Asperger's: http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

To repeat what others have posted, the style is of little importance. I would focus on the instructor and the learning environment. With the right fit, your daughter will flourish. Understanding her needs will go a long way towards finding the correct fit.

Please also feel free to email me directly if you have any other questions about Asperger's. If I can't answer them, my wife certainly can! She's a fountain of knowlege on the subject. my email is kevin@annuity1.com

Best wishes for every success,
Respectfully,
Kevin Schaller

[Sean Reilly]

Thanks for taking the time Kevin.

Ellen was finally diagnosed about 16 months ago, after looking at every possible problem first eg: ADD, ADHD, hearing, eyesight and plenty of others.

Her symptoms are not totally text book and the Specialist considers the fact Ellen is a girl is propbably the main reason why.

Thank you for all the insight you provided. Ellen is very excited about doing a martial art and a big part of that is stretching her self to meet new people and make new friends. Although accomplishing that is probably her biggest disability, she is fully aware of that & I am proud of the fact that she is trying her best to over come it.

Both my ExWife & I are very aware that the key to Ellen's success & happiness with MA is going to be the teacher. So all we can do is inform that person as best we can and keep the communication between all of us as open as possible.

Cheers



Sean Reilly

[Sean Reilly]

I know this is an old thread but....what can I say?

One of my daughter's major symptoms is procrastination, caused by the new & unknown.

Ellen finally went to a martial arts class. Her mother tried Judo first but the local club was actually closing down.

Then several months later on my latest return trip from the US, Ellen was staying over & went with me to watch her step brother's Shorinji Kempo class.

That clicked...caused a real spark in her. On our return to my place she asked me to help her do a Google search for martial arts clubs in her area.

We found several but, the one she went with was a large local WTF Tae Kwon Do club. One of the major reasons she chose it was because it was at her school (she had no idea classes where being held there) & the other is because it is not as close contact as Judo (she finds that very uncomfortable with people she doesn't know).

Anyway, a couple of days ago she completed her first class and loved it. They offered her a month of classes free and now she has asked me to take her next week.

This kind of interest according to her specialist should be really good for her because, although she is not good socially with people she also craves friends. And activities like this that let her sample social interation at her own speed allow her to stretch her self with low risk. A real confidence building exercise plus helping to teach her social skills.

Well enough on that.

Thanks.


Sean:)

[johenora]

Forget Judo--she would get injured and your doctor bills will rise steadily.
No hard systems. Use kung Fu and or Tai Chi and related arts. Private lessons at first in the art she likes and most desires.Short sessions at first.

[kage110]

First and foremost I think your daughter should do the martial art that appeals to her most.

Beyond that I would recommend judo as a great art to start with if self defence ability is high priority. Judo teaches you to fall safely, to roll and to grapple with someone who is resisiting. Punching and kicking can always be learned later. Many martial arts do not have a realistic element of non-compliance and so picking one that does is a high priority if you are pursuing a SD route. That is not to say that other reasons for doing MA are not even more worthy, just a reflection of my personal views.

I started in judo when I was 9 years old and only did it for a few years but even now, 20 years later, many of the old judo reflexes come to the fore when I need to protect myself (usually when I slip on ice or muddy ground) and the foundation that judo has given me has served me well in the other MA I now study.

A word of warning though, some judo classes are very competiton orientated and so the risk of injury can be high but the same can be said for many schools teaching karate or TKD also.

Best of luck to your daughter!

[Shantao]

Well, considering that she has no previous martial art experience, I would start with something easier, like TKD. I started with TKD and it worked well for me, as I moved into Mantis Kung Fu and Tai-Chi.

[Sean Reilly]

Thanks Shantao.

Ellen did just that several months ago.

The events regarding her start in martial arts and a lot more that followed are documented in the kids forum under the "Pleasant Surprise" thread.

Cheers



Sean

[Runar Bjaaland]

Hello everyone,

I would like to endorse the previous statement that the club culture is important. The social environment needs to have a will to support an understanding attitude in the long term.

I have a son (13) who has ADD and tried a few different Martial Arts. He has recently been smitten by Judo, and I believe this to be because of the welcoming attitude he met there. Martial Arts make for a high risk sport but as a parent I absolutely expect safety and security for my son.

I also lead a Welfare group for ADHD children. We aim to provide Parental Support and programmes that ensure Socialising Opportunities for our kids, who can somtimes fall by the wayside.
In this capacity I have noticed that the Norwegian Judo association are supporting an initiative for ''reaching out'' to all groups that come under the title ''handicapped'', and for beureacratic reasons this includes kids with learning disabilities.There are currently lessons that include students without limbs who are excellent grapplers.
We shall see if there is support for this initiative amongst the parents and carers in our local group.

Martial Arts appear to have the capacity to embrace all peoples needs, if only parents and interested parties participate in the club and specify those needs.


Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[jjaje]

Shantao,

Welcome to Budo Seek and for participating in the "Children in the martial arts" forum.

Please remember to sign all posts with real first and last names please.

[jjaje]

... Martial Arts make for a high risk sport but as a parent I absolutely expect safety and security for my son.

Runar,

Welcome to Budoseek and thanks for sharing. I agree with your post, and believe that good schools can work well with and be beneficial for children with disabilities.

The one thing I disagree about is the high risk part. I have seen more children hurt on the soccor field and other kids sports than I have seen in karate. I think in large part because one key aspect to the martial arts is the learning of control.

[Runar Bjaaland]

Hello jjaje and thankyou for the warm welcome.

I confess the culture I have experienced with childrens soccer has been unpredictable. This has been due to parental input unfortunately, but to be fair, soccer clubs manage a lot of kids.

In the martial art we practice , Judo, we find several advantages over soccer.
1. The sport is skill based
2. Trainers are usually experienced
3. Parents are not always present.


However I have a problem.
My youngest son is 10 years old and has been very successful ay soccer.
He chose to Judo and because most of his classmates are in the same team. He had to work up his acceptance in the class again. He was the main goal scorer and since leaving the team hasnt been dioing so well.

My problem is with my own concience. Did I do the right thing in allowing him to leave the football team? :confused:

Anyone else with experience on this matter???

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[Runar Bjaaland]

Hello jjaje and thankyou for the warm welcome.

I confess the culture I have experienced with childrens soccer has been unpredictable. This has been due to parental input unfortunately, but to be fair, soccer clubs manage a lot of kids.

In the martial art we practice , Judo, we find several advantages over soccer.
1. The sport is skill based
2. Trainers are usually experienced
3. Parents are not always present.


However I have a problem.
My youngest son is 10 years old and has been very successful at soccer.
He chose to Judo and because most of his classmates are in the same team he has had to work up his acceptance in the class again. He was the main goal scorer and since leaving, the team hasnt been doiing so well.

My problem is with my own concience. Did I do the right thing in allowing him to leave the football team? :confused:

Anyone else with experience on this matter???

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[jjaje]

...snippage...

However I have a problem.
My youngest son is 10 years old and has been very successful at soccer.
He chose to Judo and because most of his classmates are in the same team he has had to work up his acceptance in the class again. He was the main goal scorer and since leaving, the team hasnt been doiing so well.

My problem is with my own concience. Did I do the right thing in allowing him to leave the football team? :confused:

Anyone else with experience on this matter???

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

Runar,

I really can't offer advice, but I can say we were in almost exactly the same situation this summer.
My daughter has been taking recreational gymnastics since 2002, just a Saturday morning thing. Last summer she was invited to "join the team", and we declined, she was only 6 then. This summer she was invited to join the team again and she showed some interest so we did it. This meant practice went from 80 minutes every Saturday to 3 hours on Tuesday and 3 hours on Thursday. She did really really well in class, they moved her to a class with older/bigger children. Now we had to decide whether to keep her on the team for the fall and winter or do something else.

While she enjoys the gymnastics, she sometimes is a little sore the next day, as she tries her hardest and gives 100% during class. So when time came to sign up we talked to her, but there are other things she really wants to try also. She wants to take piano and dance lessons.

Anyways, long story short - we went for the dance. Her abilities that made her good in gymnastics (good listener, hard worker, compact frame) will make her good at dance or whatever she attempts. It is more important to me that she enjoy her activities and have a variety of experiences to draw from,and eventually find that thing she has a passion for.

Some kids find a passion for things early (like hockey or soccor) - sometimes kids do something well, but don't have a passion for it. It is my job as a parent to help my children find what it is that will stir their passion.

So, do I thinkyou did the right thing? Is your son happy? Is he learning new things? Gaining new life experiences? IF you can answer yes to the questions, than you didn't do the wrong thing.

[Runar Bjaaland]

Yes my thinking is the same on this one - It is those values that one must consult as a parent.

Thanks jjaje

Cheers Runar Bjaaland

[gr455h0pp3r]

I think taekwondo is a perfect start, all you have to do is keep her interested
and everything will come into place for her :bow: . Im happy to hear things are going well.