Looking for a sidearm

[Bear]

Might not belong in a Military/LEO forum, but since firearms are part of the trade, I figured this is a good place to look.

In a year or so, I'm going to be old enough to buy a sidearm, and I'm already looking to see what's out there. Right now, I'm looking at a .45 cal Heckler and Kock (H&K) USP . I've held the gun, and the feel and weight both feel really good, but I'm wondering what's the opinion of the gun itself. A salesman will try to sell you anything, so I'm kind of skeptical of the people who are looking to sale me anything.

So what are people's opinions of that particular USP? And of H&K.

Also, any other sidearm suggestions? I'm looking for something with stopping power, and from everything I've heard and read, a .45 is up there in that department. I'm also willing to pay for quality, and my research has said that H&K makes really good, dependable weapons. So any weapon and/or company suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[RA Miller]

Joe-
There should be commercial ranges in your area where you can rent a variety of weapons and try them out. Feel is very important and very individual.

If you won't have time or opportunity to practice much, consider a revolver.

Will/can you get a CCW? Is this a weapon for hobby shooting (in which case .22 is much cheaper and you can still develop basic marksmanship skills) Home defense (in which case concealability is not an issue, but overpenetration is) or street carry? Or something else?

Rory

[Ron Rompen]

The first thing you need to consider is what you need/want a firearm for.

That H&K may feel 'really good' right now, but it may not feel so good when you have to lug it around all day.

If you want something for 'fun shooting' I would definitely recommend something MUCH smaller.....although a .45 is a good manstopper, it is getting hellaciously expensive to shoot (even if you load your own). .22 rimfire is much MUCH cheaper, and requires just as much skill.

If you are looking for a home defense weapon, in my own opinion, a shotgun is a much more appropriate choice. Accurate pistol shooting is a very demanding skill, requiring many MANY hours of practice, and the skill deteriorates rapidly without ongoing refreshing. On the other hand, although a shotgun does require training and practice, it is a much easier skill to acquire.

[John Bennett]

I'm also in the market for an autoloader pistol.

Like everyone said, if you want something for plinking or concealed carry, something else might be better because the USP .45 is big and expensive to operate.

Maybe you're like me in that money is factor. I can't drop $700 on a gun every year to have one for concealed carry, another for open carry, and yet another for plinking. I kinda need one that will do it all.

If money is not a concern, get the HK. If money is a concern check out the Ruger P97 and P90. I've been reading the gun forums a lot lately (both http://boards.hkpro.com and http://www.rugerforum.com ) and the Ruger P's seem to utterly reliable and durable.

Like Rory said, there is NO substitue for renting several because "feel" is very, very important. I thought I wanted a Glock until I rented one. They just sat wrong in my hand.

A pawnshop here has a used USP 9mm that feels absolutely beautiful in my hand. I'm on the verge of buying it, but it shows a lot of holster wear, has no box or manual, and they want $580 for it. I can get a new one for $625.

[Bear]

Well, everyone thanks for the advice. Gave me a couple of places to start looking. Concealed carry isn't all that important to me, since California has very strict laws. This would be mainly for home defense, so yeah, over-penetration would be an issue. Sounds like it's back to the drawing board. I'm going to look around and try to find a shooting range or two in the vincity. Shouldn't be that hard. Thanks again.

[John Bennett]

Since around the house size is not an issue, go for the most firepower you can handle.

Local shop here has a used Ruger P90 .45 for $419.

Incidentally, yesterday on my lunch hour I ran across a slightly used Ruger KP95DC 9mm for $299.

Stainless steel slide, polymer frame, DA/SA with decocker, came with two factory 10-round mags.

I bought it!!!!!

Now I'm looking on ebay for some quality standard capacity magazines (15-rounders).

A large part of the reason why I bought this gun was the availability of cheap pre-ban mags and it's reputation for reliability.

This gun feels hefty, but it's built like a Tank! The price was so good I'll have no hesitation about hauling it around in my bags, on my motorcycle, in my car, etc. and letting it get scratched up.

She's a workhorse not a cabinet queen! :)

I've got her full of 147gr. Federal Hydra-Shok right now.

[Bad Karma]

Home defense? Gotta restate some support for the shotgun. Sawed-off (within legal limits, of course) double barrel is good stuff.

One thing, though, is if home defense is THE issue, you need to include your significant other in all aspects of the decision process AND practise shoots. Who says you will be the one and only person to ever have to use the weapon?

Peace

[John Bennett]

For home defense I built an AR15.

16" Barrel, Tactical Entry Stubby Stock. Very small!

I have a 12 guage Mossberg ATP 500 with an 18" barrel. I just never could get the wife and kids acustomed to the safety on it or racking the action. They would either short stroke it, or not fully engage it.

After much frustrating training time, I gave up. They hated the recoil anyway.

They love the little AR!

Pick it up, flick off the safety, aim, start pulling the trigger!

Much easier for them. It's lighter, shorter, and easier for them to use.

I keep it sitting beside the be with a 30 round clip in it.

I've also been looking into the Saiga line of semi-automatic shotguns. They come in 410, .20, and .12 guages. They have a detachable magazine and use the AK47 action. Very interesting.



I need to get a picture up so you can see it.

[RAZOR_3D]

whatever you get scince it is for home protection look in to a round from remington called the disintegrater it has a thin copper jacket around a lead free compressed metal core. when it hits a wall it prety much flys apart ,unlike the standerd ball ammo which will go through your house and the neighbors like a hot knife through butter. this way you dont risk shooting the kid half a block away when you miss you target. as you can see from my avatar my presonal preferance is the old colt 1911. and NO THAT IS NOT AN A-1. just remember you want maximum stopping power with minimum penitration. hope that this helps in some way.

[Cliff Hargrave]

as you can see from my avatar my presonal preferance is the old colt 1911. and NO THAT IS NOT AN A-1.

So you carry a pre-1926 pistol?

[Webmaster]

Didn't the original 1911 have no grip safety, etc? If you are carrying an original 1911, then I hope you are not pushing +P rounds through it! The only original 1911's I have seen were in museums and were not considered safe to operate even with standard .45 ball ammo.

[ACRAWFORD]

Can't go wrong them. They are rated as one the best brands you can get. However they are pricy. Might want to look into something less expensive for your first one. After you get it you might not like it.



Oh almost forgot my name again.


Andre Crawford

[Cliff Hargrave]

Didn't the original 1911 have no grip safety, etc? If you are carrying an original 1911, then I hope you are not pushing +P rounds through it! The only original 1911's I have seen were in museums and were not considered safe to operate even with standard .45 ball ammo.

The original 1911 did have a grip safety but like you said, I wouldn't trust it to be safe with modern ammo plus they are collectors items.

The changes from 1911 to 1911A1 were:

1. Wider front sight to develop "Patridge-type" of sights, allowing the shooter to quickly align both front and rear sights under various lighting conditions.

2. Longer hammer spur. Both changes 2 and 3 work together to prevent the web between the thumb and the forefinger being pinched between the hammer and the safety spur when the gun is fired.

3. Longer grip-safety spur.

4. Arched spring housing fills the shooter's hand and checkering backstrap provides a better grip.

5. Relief cuts in the frame around the trigger allowing easier access to the trigger.

6. Shorter trigger with knurled face to avoid the trigger finger from slipping.


1911
http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/1911_Army.gif

1911A1
http://www.sightm1911.com/1911pix/historic/1911a1.gif

[Dennis Monk]

Wow Cliff!
I didn't know that a Glock man such as yourself was so well versed in the history and physical characteristics of the Government Model pistol.
Impressive!

[Cliff Hargrave]

Wow Cliff!
I didn't know that a Glock man such as yourself was so well versed in the history and physical characteristics of the Government Model pistol.
Impressive!


:) I still have a fondness for the "old" stuff. I carried a stainless Commander for a few years.

[SteyrAUG]

Didn't the original 1911 have no grip safety, etc? If you are carrying an original 1911, then I hope you are not pushing +P rounds through it! The only original 1911's I have seen were in museums and were not considered safe to operate even with standard .45 ball ammo.

Oh man not a good way to start off in a new inet community by correcting the admin., but here goes. :D

Of the many 1911s I own I have a first year. I have shot them all frequently with everything from ball ammo to modern factory loads. I do not use +p rounds in any firearm specifically not rated for them but the 1911 is a tank and would probably eat them all day.

The ONLY vintage firearm that comes to mind that cannot handle modern factory loads are 1903 Springfields with serials under 800,000.

[maxpress]

if you want a gun just for home deffense i would say the remington 870 with dime loads from bianke.

if you want a handgun thats just gonna sit in a drawer for years till needed and you dont want to worry if the springs went dead then get somthing like a ruger sp101 in 357

i know i carry an auto to so dont laugh to hard at me but for an only handgun there hard to beat. they never jam, you dont have to replace parts if it sits loaded for to long and if ya go camping then a 158gr. jacketed soft point will stop the little bears cali has.

i carry one in my truck at all times and its a pleasure to shoot and to conceal.

hope this helps
chris

[Sgathak]

A revolver does have reliability on its side... but NO ONE who intends to use a firearm for home defense should ever let it "sit in the drawer". Regular (at least 4 times a year) practice should be a virtual requirement... and if you run a few mags through and do a proper clean job afterwards, an Auto should be just as reliable. Plus, "maintenance" gives you a good "excuse" to go pop some cans ;)

[muaythaifreak]

As a former Marine PMI my advice is this; if you are not an experienced shooter, the best thing to learn with is a .22 rimfire, (9mm isn't bad either because the recoil is very light). Regardless of whether it is an auto loader or a revolver, it is much less intimidating to learn how to shoot with this load than any other. Not to mention that you can shoot it all day and your hand and wrist won't feel any worse for ware, nor will your wallet. Shoot with a small caliber until your comfortable with it and you have the basics of marksmanship and firearm safety down pat. Then move up to the big boys. You'll save a lot of $$ on ammo and you'll find that you will be a better shot in the long run in a shorter period of time. The .45's are way too expensive to learn how to shoot with one. Not only the weapon itself, but the rounds are all but free for a .22LR and the fundamentals of marksmanship are the same whether your firing a .22LR or a .454 Casull. It's kinda like learning to ski, you just shouldn't start out on the steepest hill you can find, it's likely to turn you away from skiing and you really aren't learning much if your worrying about breaking your neck. First and foremost, don't take any firearm lightly, even a .22 short can kill you or someone around you. Firearm safety is paramount, and you should have an experienced shooter with you when you start learning the art. And it is an art. As far as "leaving it in the drawer", DO NOT DO THAT. If your going to have a firearm you should always be proficient with it's handling and maintenance. Practice often and practice safely. Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT and continued practice makes perfect.

[TonyU]

As a long standing firearms instructor and self proclaimed gun nut, you guys know your stuff. It was a pleasure reading all your opinions and experience.

[maxpress]

sgathak i agree with you totally. i try to get all my gun owning friends out with me once a season to shoot and give pointers. we go over self deffense for animal and human. my recomedation to them is to shoot at least a case of ammo a year through there carry or home gun even though i go through a case a month (mostly reloads).
the only reason i wrote that is because 80% or more gun owners buy a gun and a box of ammo or 2 and try it out then it goes into a nightstand and is only remembered when trouble happens or a backwoods trip is being planed.
thank you for pointing this out to everyone cause a gun isnt worth anything no matter what caliber if you dont know how to clear a jam or cant hit your target. and is useless if it sits and gets rusty or the springs "go soft".

chris mangold