What about Capoeira

[FistofLegend]

I don't think anyone has mention anything about capoeira here. What do you guys think about the art? Here is a site that discuses its history and another site with some cool clips. I will add some more later.

http://www.capoeiranyc.com/study.html


http://dns.advnet.net/allan/capoeira/esco.html

[Jeff Burger]

Capoeira is a fun workout...dont think Ill be doing an one hand hand stand kicks in a fight though.


Jeff

[Kenji]

All I've heard is that it is too acrobatic and, like you mentioned Jeff, the hands stands just won't work.

Oh yeah, I heard that it was created by slaves from Africa that disguised it as a dance. Maybe deadly dance moves are good for fighting some clumbsy slave trader, but a modern martial artist or street punk, I think not. I'll believe in its effectiveness when a strong practioner of the art wipes the floor with me.

But, it does look nice!:D

And not to undermind anyones effort, but most of the things in those videos remind me of something a skaterboarder might do while not skateboarding.

[rpnp]

Don’t underestimate how “pretty” capoeira looks its very deadly if you get hit
I never thought it would work in a real fight or just sparring until I met my cousin (that I haven’t seen in many years). He’s been training in capoeira for close to 10yrs (also studied jkd for numerous years) and taught me many things that I would of never considered before. For instance I have practiced a lot of martial arts in the past but I currently only train in aikido and it was really hard for me to reverse some of the kicks that he was throwing and the sweeps. I was really fascinated on how quick and powerful some of the unorthodox puches and kicks were.

But in the end I still made him tap.
:rocket:

rpnp

[Kenji]

I'm sure it may be deadly if you get hit, but most of the techniques I've seen couldn't fool or get past anyone's sight. Per se they are very big and telegraphed. But, if I'm wrong, please show me the truth.

[Sgathak]

First you need to consider the history of the art. Its location of development, who it was used by, and who its was used against.

It was developed by slaves from African techniques. It was practiced in Brazil for multiple uses. It taught rythem, it taught movement, it taught teamwork (you dont hurt people in the jogo... but malandregam ['dirty tricks'] are allowed), it built community... This was the CORE of capoeria... its fighting was secondary.

Now, consider its users... poor slaves who needed fast movements and strong footwork as they were often shackled at the wrists, fighting people with a whip, stick, or using their fists... Being far away, agile, and often below their attackers "radar" had its advantages. When they were not shackled, the didnt use their hands for striking very often, but they DID use knives, sticks, and razor blades (including the ability to hold the razor blades between their toes). Since the abolishment of Slavery in brazil, the need for such techniques vanished and they arnt taught very often anymore... It wasnt that important in the first place.

There are now two main schools of Capoeria, Angola, and Regional. The two mostly differ in the application of techniques and rules of play.

It is important to remember that while the HISTORY of the art is rooted in combative applications, it is now a GAME, a DANCE, and for some, a LIFESTYLE... its fighting applications are of little importance to most practitioners.


EDIT: Also, its important to think about the fact that while the techniques are quite telegraphed... their application is unlike anything your likely to see outside the Rota, and so a well placed Rastera (sweep) or quick Vingativa (type of step-behind takedown) can be a great element of suprise

[Kenji]

Makes sense to me.

[Evz]

Hey guys, i've spent many years practicing capoeira, it's very common here in Brazil... well, i think Sgathak said it all... capoeira isn't focused on real fights, the moves were made to be used on the roda, like the one hand stand kick mentioned before, it's used agaisnt headbutts(cabeçada). In capoeira there are no punches, sometimes one can slap you in the face but like Sgathak said, it's maladragem ("dirty tricks") but the all the other things are done with the legs, you only use the hands to defend.

About the stick and razor blades... It's a part of capoeira, it's called Maculelê but that's advanced stuff.

You also learn to play some music in capoeira, it's part of it, a roda without music doesn't have a game. I learned to play the Berimbau and the Atabaque(kind of a drum).

[Jeff Burger]

Welcome to Budoseek Evz
Per forum rules please include your real full name.

Jeff

[black-gi]

I dont know too much about it but it looks cool, the music is neat. I dont know if it is sapposed to have the same purpose today as it did "way back when" in theory everything works but reality is different, I dont think the art has evolved enough to be tottaly effective but I do think it would compliment other style practitioners ( kicks mostly ) then others.. Deffinatly something I would like to learn





Jason Bryant

[M3inline6]

Capoeira is an esoteric art. The fact that the art is underestimated is its greatest ally. What most people see in Capoeira rodas are the equivalent to a friendly sparring match in other arts. If you base Capoeira's effectiveness off of what is seen in the roda, then you are truly viewing it from a limited scope. Capoeira has majority of the things that most of the other arts have. Contrary to popular belief, Capoeiristas DO punch.........we DO have applications intended for purposes of breaking.......and we have many takedowns (rasteira's, banda, and other variations), parry's (esquiva's, cocorinha, etc.), headbutts (cabecada's),etc. There isn't any blocking in Capoeira, but the reason behind that is because the movements are so evasive. Some applications used in the roda will not be used in the street (just like there are some applications in almost every art that aren't considered "street effective"). Any "good" mestre will help you discern between the practical and the impractical in terms of street effectiveness.

It is true that alot of people practice Capoeira solely for the fun of the jogo (game). They should not represent the whole however. There are really good Capoeirista's who are fighters. It takes years of practice to be effective. In the end, it all comes down to the practitioner and his style. What most of you see is Contemporary Capoeira. A means of expression.....exhibition......and intellectual game play.

I also agree that, at times, some things are lost in translation. What art doesn't suffer the same fate? In Brasil, it isn't uncommon for street rodas to turn into BJJ/submission fights, and then revert back to Capoeira. My mestre teaches the fight because that is his focus (along w/ the language, the instruments, and the music). He's very adept at the jogo de' dentro (the inside game).

Again, I think that it is necessary to true peer into the world of Capoeira before making a rash generalization. Do not be fooled by our playful games in the roda. If you have a specific inquiry, please to post back and ask. I'll lend any insight that I can.

[infinite-circle]

The "roda" as stated before is just an excerise if anyone was to step to Capoiera player thinking this guy is going to dance a jig or breakout into song with no shoes on they are mistaken. The people I see who play are strong fast and not easy to "take down" The main part of the game is to win without showing people what you can do. Many mestre will let a younger stundent get all fancy spinning and jumping and crazy circus junk, but then the mestre moves in and places a hand here, puhses there and "bam". next player.

As far as fighting goes, if a fight breaks out in the roda the common rule is to wait and let the two fight it out and then they sit down or leave and the game continues with or without them, like life.

Deception is key to this art. just like masters in other styles who purposely change their forms when showing others.

On the other hand their are people who are fakers out there just like in every other part of life. :bow:
Adrian Stockman Capoiera fan

[nosh276]

I want to study it. I don't think there's a school in my area though.

[J4d3]

if you go to www.multilevelmoves.com there is a video there of a guy named capokurt who seems to effectively tag opponents as far as sparring goes atleast.i would say capoeira looks like a lot of fun.i'd love to try it.
Jade Parker

[Mikey Triangles]

My friend was born in Panama and he helped me to learn a few Regional/Senzala techniques(I really only know really a few basic things, but I may go back to it and learn more some day). I probably wouldn't fight someone as a Capoeirista, but throwing in one of those wicked kicks every now and then can really throw someone off... not to mention how impressive some of them look(the reason I was interested in the first place :p). Also if you mess up a handspring or lose your balance during a hand stand while practicing you can land in a "Negativa" and come up with a "Macaco" and look like you did it on purpose :)

[tmac]

Thank you for your comments on Capoeira.

Many people misunderstand the art, mainly because what is usually shown is "presentation" capoeira or the *game* played in the roda. A capoeirista that is in a real fight will *not* play the way they would in a demonstration or roda. There would be no backflips or handstands or headstands - and definitely, no smiles. A knowledgable capoeirsta can be a very formidable opponent when challenged. There is a reason the art was outlawed for so many years in Brazil. There was even a detention camp, or prison, specifically for capoeirstas. This art is very much about deception and should not be underestimated.

I trained in Capoeira for a few years and return to my training whenever time allows. Currently, more time is spent in my study of TKD - but I will always be a capoeirista.

tmac



Capoeira is an esoteric art. The fact that the art is underestimated is its greatest ally. What most people see in Capoeira rodas are the equivalent to a friendly sparring match in other arts. If you base Capoeira's effectiveness off of what is seen in the roda, then you are truly viewing it from a limited scope. Capoeira has majority of the things that most of the other arts have. Contrary to popular belief, Capoeiristas DO punch.........we DO have applications intended for purposes of breaking.......and we have many takedowns (rasteira's, banda, and other variations), parry's (esquiva's, cocorinha, etc.), headbutts (cabecada's),etc. There isn't any blocking in Capoeira, but the reason behind that is because the movements are so evasive. Some applications used in the roda will not be used in the street (just like there are some applications in almost every art that aren't considered "street effective"). Any "good" mestre will help you discern between the practical and the impractical in terms of street effectiveness.

It is true that alot of people practice Capoeira solely for the fun of the jogo (game). They should not represent the whole however. There are really good Capoeirista's who are fighters. It takes years of practice to be effective. In the end, it all comes down to the practitioner and his style. What most of you see is Contemporary Capoeira. A means of expression.....exhibition......and intellectual game play.

I also agree that, at times, some things are lost in translation. What art doesn't suffer the same fate? In Brasil, it isn't uncommon for street rodas to turn into BJJ/submission fights, and then revert back to Capoeira. My mestre teaches the fight because that is his focus (along w/ the language, the instruments, and the music). He's very adept at the jogo de' dentro (the inside game).

Again, I think that it is necessary to true peer into the world of Capoeira before making a rash generalization. Do not be fooled by our playful games in the roda. If you have a specific inquiry, please to post back and ask. I'll lend any insight that I can.

[Cameron]

Does anyone know of any capoeira schools in the Daytona Beach, Florida area? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Whiskey Jack]

Not knowing Florida all that well, you may want to check out the school list over here (http://www.capoeirista.com/schools.html?q=United%20States&state=Florida).

I've seen one profile over on Capoeira.com (http://www.capoeira.com) from a guy in Daytona Beach who's driving about 90 minutes to attend class, though I don't know how recent his profile is. If FL is anything like Iowa, you can go from no capoeira schools to dozen or so in a couple years.

[KitEskrima]

Capoeira is an excellent work out and I find it generates alertness and awareness when playing the game(a non close contact sparring session done to music) at the end of each session. I think it compliments a lot of Martial Arts and keeps you flexible. Check out my blog for some pictures of the Capoeira class I attend.
http://kittomainia.blogspot.com/2005/10/my-week-in-martial-arts-oct-9th-to.html

I also find it interesting as we learn the cultural aspects and play instruments in the art as well. But above all its great fun.

Thanks

[khujo78]

My best friend has been doing capoeira for about 11 years now and the actual fighting aspect looks alot less like that dancing you see. Yes the dancing was used as a diversion to teaching people dangerous moves. However, when it actually came to the application, many slaps (I've seem some punches) and alot of grappling goes on. The full contact aspect looks alot like rythmic boxing almost. Many of the moves seem to simply draw someone's attention away from the attack. For instance, my friend did a handstand for the sole purpose of getting his opponent (from a different ma) to sweep. He then did some sort of cartwheel and got around to apply a choke hold.
However, MOST schools focus more on the dancing aspect, which is why is seems useless, most of what is taught really is as far as combat goes.

[hizaguchi]

From what I have seen, it looks like alot of fun. I can definately see the practical applications too. I mean, just think about how often you actually get in a fight or have to defend yourself...... and now think about how often you're goofing off at work and the ability to do that acrobatic stuff would come in handy........ I rest my case. :D

[hizaguchi]

I got started looking into it, and now I've got a question, since there seems to be a few knowledgable capoeira people here. How much would I actually get out of a class about once per month? There is a school back where my parents live that accepts payment on a per-class basis ($5), and I'm thinking maybe I'll make a habit of going to visit my family occasionally. :) I should clarify that I'm not looking to really advance in the art or anything. It just seems interesting. Is there a worthwhile amount of material that can be practiced alone, assuming occasional correction and criticism is available? Or is the game as much a part of the practice as rolling in BJJ, and practice alone therefore only very slightly productive?

[JujitsuMunky]

The game is very important to capoeira, it helps you learn to feel your opponent and to get good at evasive tactics. If you want to see capoeira in action check out jean silva's HL video at jeansilva.co.uk

[hizaguchi]

^ Oh yeah, I'm sure that without regular sparring practice I would be really out of place trying to use the techniques. I'd just like to improve my agility and learn to deal with being upside down. Some of the things I've seen done in the style must take alot more positional awareness than I have, and I'd be interested in improving myself. Plus, I may come across something I can throw into my TKD sparring sessions to spice things up. :up:

[Grei]

Well, I don't do capoeira... (which isn't to say I don't wish I did, but it's inaccessable)

However, you could probably practice the performance of individual techniques alone and just work on stringing them together in the rhoda.

[hong_kong_phooey]

it is *essentially* a game/dance. the moves all have martial applications, but you probably wouldn't use them in a real fight. some movements are telegraphed, while some are very quick.

that said, if you are an advance capoeirista, you are well versed in tricking your opponent, reading their movements, avoiding attacks, and delivering devastaing counter-attacks, which will certainly can be used to defend yourself.

[hong_kong_phooey]

hiza, grey....

let me say that achieving competency through capoeira practice can be intense and long, but also rewarding. there is definitely a several month to even years learning curve before becoming comfortable with the movements. i would say that the minimum practive schedule should be once/week, otherwise your training will progress very slowly.

also, learning the movements and applying them in the roda are VERY different things, and neither can be done without an instructor.

[Yang Wei Xin]

from what i understand, the dancing was done to disquise the art so that slave masters thought that it was harmless, my only question is, if there is no more slavery, then why still disquise the martial aspects? why not focus on them?

[riku]

from what i understand, the dancing was done to disquise the art so that slave masters thought that it was harmless, my only question is, if there is no more slavery, then why still disquise the martial aspects? why not focus on them?
Historical reasons, to keep tradition alive, cultural convention of the art, to list few... Several arts (including, as far as I know, some of you've listed in your curriculum) have elements that are not directly linked to pure fighting skills: there are rituals, and traditions, kept alive for multiple reasons.

Riku Ylönen

[Yang Wei Xin]

all of my karate katas have corresponding bunkai (practical application)

and all of my Tau Lu(chinese forms, probably spelled wrong) have applicable technique in the moves, after completing a set, sifu always demonstrates the practical application of the move, otherwise how would you picture your opponent in your mind.

i know that due to modern wushu many people think kung fu, and praying mantis in particular is just about flowery movement, but every move in traditional praying mantis forms corresponds to a principle of movement or a particular basic technique, and is therefore directly related to fighting skill.

[khujo78]

I think capoeristas (like all martial artists) know the limitations of their art and do cross-training. I know my friend who has been doing it for a while has done MT and is looking to join the school I'm at (mma, bjj, mt). The fact that they have a good rhythm helps out and it really helps with footwork. As I've said before they do some sparring (although I think most U.S. schools focus more on the dancing aspect). And when they do spar it can get ugly. This same guy went against a few TKD and HKD folks (no bashing) and pretty much dominated. This can be mainly be due to the school, which practices alot of contact as opposed to most here. Still, original capoeira is very dangerous, believe it or not, as it incorporates the use of blades in places like between the toes and fingers (which is why those circular moves SEEM so harmless), also headbutts and alot of other 'dirty' tricks. And who would expect that from a dance?

[FightersSpirit]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this site, but am looking forward to good discussions. :)

Well in the next coming months, my friend wants to take up a martial art. And he wants me to go learn it with him. I already am learning Hapkido (and loving it) but I'm gonna start learning another MA with my friend. Well our choice is either Capoeira or Muay Thai. But I need to know if there are any good Capoeira schools in Illinois. We found this one place that teaches it, but we want to see what other schools are available.

[Cameron]

Google it or try this site (http://capoeira.com/news.php) Someone postedit when I asked about Capoeira awhile ago, and it was helpful. Sadly... no places within like 90 min. of me. But anyway, sign up and ask around on the forums.

[Cameron]

Actually, I spoke to several capoeiristas on Capoeira.com and most said they had very little flexibility when they started, but that it improved with time.

[RPelletier]

I have fallen in love with Capoeira after only 3 classes. Its an awesome martial art that I have found a lot of respect for. I have trained in TKD, Muay Thai, Hapkido, and BJJ. IMHO, Capoeira is far more physically demanding than the rest. I'll be 34 next month and I wish that I have trained capoeira a lot sooner. I still train BJJ, but have been out for the last 3 months because of tennis elbow. I will still train BJJ when my arm is better, but I dont think I will ever stop training in Capoeira, its too much fun.

Roland Pelletier

[capoeirascience]

Hi,

I havent posted on this thread before. I am the webmaster of capoeirascience.com and if you guys love capoeira then I would hate you to miss the clips that I have up there. Although I train with CDO I put clips up of whomever I can film, they just have to be really, really good to get on there. Cant talk too much right now.. im all talked out!

If a picture can tell a thousand words then a 33 second video at 25 frames per second can tell.. enjoy the capoeira video clips (http://www.capoeirascience.com/clips.html)!

cheers, cientista

[Gordon Nore]

Mr Eadie,

Just a reminder. You've already posted about your website on another forum, Member Announcements. Posting the same information on multiple forums is considered cross-posting and is discouraged. You are free to add your weblink to your signature, and then it is available to all who see your posts. Please see Forum Rules (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10752).

Thanks,
Gordon

[capoeirascience]

sorry gordon. wont happen again.

dion, I definitely agree with wilbur. I am by no mean an awesome capoeirista but I know some things. when I started I was stiff as a brick, I couldnt touch my toes but like everything else you train flexibility. many of the guys you admire for their skill did not start out flexible. capoeira, like other martial arts requires extreme levels of ability that are beyond the norm so training is everything - in the beginning we are all in the same boat! I know one story about a street kid called Piabinha, he was so stiff Mestre China tied him between two trees in the slum where they lived and left him there for hours, apart from that he stretched that kid day and night. Piabinha grew up and now can put his feet on the back of his head when he does cartwheels. I have old videos of him but theyre on 8mm.

... No need to go all van-damme on yourself like those guys ... I imagine it has been posted on this forum various times but here is Brad Appleton's stretching and Flexibility FAQ (http://www.afn.org/skydive/sta/stretch/stretching_toc.html)