Are brazlilian ju jitsu guys tuaght to guage out eyes or bite or pinch?

[Hardcore Fighter]

There are a lot of moves in brazlilian ju jitsu where you can just poke someones eyes out or bite the guy or pinch him or grab his balls and rip them off.
Do you guys get tuaght those moves?
Cause a lot of brazilian ju jitsu is sport oriented.

[Jeff Burger]

Some schools do more self defense than others.

As far as ripping someone balls off I think you been watching too much Sony Chiba.

JMB

[jabonn]

BAAAA HHAAAAAA Sonny Chiba.


When you grab someone's balls in Judo and JJ we call that 5 on 2. (If you don't get it look at your hand = 5 fingers)

Sometimes when the guy is on his stomach and you want to get him on his back and you grab the seat of his pants you get a little personal sometimes. Then you get the 5 on 2. We do not do this intentially - it's something that just happens.

[Jeff Burger]

I think its the first Street Fighter where Sony Chiba rips a guys groin off.

I got a bunch of Chinba flicks...the Street Fighter series is really the only ones worth watching.
Some of his flicks are just terrible.

Who did the flick where they rip the guys heart out???
I thought it was Sony Chiba.
If so...what flick?

Jeff

[Skye]

I've recently started grappling, and there was a guy having his first night. I thought I'd give him some basic pointers. One thing was the simple guard pass where you drive your elbows into the insides of their thighs. He promptly drove both elbows into my groin.

We don't get taught those things in my classes though. It's pretty hard to teach ripping someones balls off or poking out eyes. The class would end being the blind leading...ok bad joke. Biting is too unsanitary for most people. I've read of people trying it in classes but you have to be ready to drink their sweat...eww. That might be good enough reason to avoid the technique generally, just the chance of disease.

Jeff: An evil priest guy ripped a guys heart out in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

[jabonn]

Hey Jeff which one is the one where he smashes the head of a guys with his hands and the head explodes? That is a great one.

[Jeff Burger]

Hmmm Sister Street Fighter I think is where he hits him in the back of the head and his eyes pop out.

Jeff

[jabonn]

No not that one, he smashed the head with his palms (like clapping your hands) and the head explodes like a watermellon. Ill try to find a clip. Its great! (Just like Tony says)

[John Bennett]

> "Do you guys get tuaght those moves? "

No because there is nothing to teach.

That being said, I guarantee that a BJJ guy would do better at it because he would be on top, possessing the leverage, and controlling the position.

[Antares33]

Originally posted by jabonn
No not that one, he smashed the head with his palms (like clapping your hands) and the head explodes like a watermellon. Ill try to find a clip. Its great! (Just like Tony says)


I'm pretty sure that one is from the Movie Riki Oh: The story of Riki. Sonny Chiba isn't in it, but it is certainly one of the most comically terrible movies I have ever seen.


As far as the eye gouging, pinching and peach stealing stuff in BJJ, my school doesn't teach it, but I learned a few decent dirty dirty techniques in a year of kung fu. All in all I'd say that dirty tricks are always a good thing to know, but not being able to practice them in an environment where you're able to do the technique against a resisting opponent doesn't help.

They're certainly a good thing to have in the back of your mind though, I can see how it would be very easy to forget how simple it could be to eye gouge in a stressful situation if you're not used to thinking about that kind of thing.

[Jeff Burger]

"An evil priest guy ripped a guys heart out in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom."

Nah Im talking way back...like in the 70's.


Dirty tricks...
I always wondered why groin, eyes,biting....is considered dirty.
Someone is making me fight how is that fair? Why would I want to fight nice?
I think it bad old American good guyness...too much John Wayne.
Personally Im glad its like that...less people doing thsoe things on the street means a less likelyhood of me being on the recieving end.
As for me...I challenge myself to come up with "dirtier" tricks.
Constantly peel off the layers of your social conditioning...we have alot...especially in the west.

Jeff

[Skye]

Against a bite you can lessen the biting power by pushing into their mouth, and pulling their head into it. Basically driving yourself down their throat. Teeth and jaws work much better at ripping backwards so pushing into the bite reduces the power. Also as you push in you open the jaws, so the jaw muscles are extended and much weaker. You can get a gagging reflex too which can help you get out of the bite.

[De_Franza]

Dirty tricks...
I always wondered why groin, eyes,biting....is considered dirty.
Someone is making me fight how is that fair? Why would I want to fight nice?
I think it bad old American good guyness...too much John Wayne.
Constantly peel off the layers of your social conditioning...we have alot...especially in the west.

Jeff [/B]

A-****in-men, brother! There is no dirty fighting. There is defeating and living. People don't seem to get it; when someone threatens your life, they sacrifice their claim to their own in the process.

[De_Franza]

Originally posted by Skye
Against a bite you can lessen the biting power by pushing into their mouth, and pulling their head into it. Basically driving yourself down their throat. Teeth and jaws work much better at ripping backwards so pushing into the bite reduces the power. Also as you push in you open the jaws, so the jaw muscles are extended and much weaker. You can get a gagging reflex too which can help you get out of the bite.

Good to know. Thanks for the tips! Any advice for administering a bite attack?


To anyone: this is probably urban legend (like jamming the nose into the brain for instant death) but I've heard the ears can be ripped off with relative ease... anyone know?

These are the logical next questions to ask. I swear I'm really not a sicko, :ticks:

[Skye]

Any advice for administering a bite attack?
A couple of links..
http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/bando/kachin.html
That's a thread that was archived. A little over half way down it goes into biting. Lots of stuff there, and it's from a forum like this so it's pretty casual.

http://ejmas.com/jmanly/jmanlyframe.htm
Big article on biting and gouging in The South during last century. The link doesn't send you straight to the article, you have to click on "Vol. 2001" on the side menu then scroll down to the article "Gouge and Bite, Pull Hair and Scratch."

[Jeff Burger]

Paul Vunak has a tape on what I believe his says is a subdivision of Kali called Kino Mutai (??? spelling)...the art of biting, pinching and gouging (or something close to that).

I think biting and pinching can make great windows of opportunity and could leave some scars...but unless someone is biting on my throat I dont see it as a fight stopper.

A window the user should be ready to take full advantage of...cause if that fight continues you have probably raised the nastiness of the level.
You hurt someone they will want to hurt you back...somewhat of a human instinct seems to be to want to do the same thing back...I want you to feel what I feel or something.

Gauging in the eyes can certainly be a fight stopper...dont count on it though.
I have seen people get poked and guaged in the eys just get infuriated...granted they are probably a weakend machine cause sight maybe impared...but they decide to fight they maybe well POd.

From the eye shots I have seen I think panic and feeling disabled is as much or more than the pain for stopping the fight.

Ask Rory he seems to have alot more of the psych understanding than me.

Jeff

[Sanjuro]

Hardcore fighter, which do you think is a more efficient method of defeating an opponent:

Attempting to "grab his balls & rip 'em off" or choking him unconscious?:rolleyes:



I can't believe people are still talking about the whole "well I could poke you in the eyes/gouge/bite you" thing. As John said, the JJ man is gonna be in control and more able to administer punishment.

[migo]

Well, it should be integrated into training. There's always ways of modifying moves that don't leave you open to eyegouges and stuff like that, if "dirty" tricks aren't a part of the training the BJJ people (and most martial artists actually) are more likely to get hit by them.

[Jeff C.]

I began the conversion of a highly trained and proficient fighter from another system to my way of thinking/fighting/training during a sparring match when the ball-ripping thing DID NOT WORK for my opponent.

I won't bore you with the details of how all of this developed and transpired. The important thing is this: The sensei wanted to spar me on our first meeting. After some hard banging from a distance, we closed to a clinch. I executed the takedown and set a strangle at the same time. Sensei decided to give my jewels a tickle and a tug. Sensei had a very good grip, classic apple-picking style.

After sensei tapped out (the lights were going out), sensei was baffled about the testicle technique failing. Sensei was certain that ripping, tugging, gouging and pulling of the testicles was foolproof.

Defending against this sort of thing, and dealing with this technique once it is "set" is ridiculously easy. Should we start another thread about this? Share techniques on how to defend and/or endure this sort of thing?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[migo]

Yes, I think that would actually be a good idea. I'm just as baffled as the other guy as to why it didn't work. I've heard some people have prosthetic testicles but that's not a route I'm willing to go down (until I have kids anyway).

[Cliff Hargrave]

Just to add........

Having seen enough real fights and aftermaths over the years I would trust a technique that chokes someone out or breaks a limb over a bite or ball grab any day. I have seen some folks fighting with hunks sliced and bit out of them and I have personally kicked the heck out of folks in the groin with no effect whatsoever. Sure later they hurt alot but in the heat of the moment they took all I gave them.

[WIL BRANCA]

To anyone: this is probably urban legend (like jamming the nose into the brain for instant death) but I've heard the ears can be ripped off with relative ease... anyone know?

I used to be a pro wrestler and studied at the Killer Kowalski school in Boston, MA.

"Killer" got his nick-name by doing just that: he ripped a guy's ear off during a match. He says it was an accident. I don't know about that, but I do know he's been a vegetarian ever since...

WIL BRANCA

[DuckofDeath]

After sensei tapped out (the lights were going out), sensei was baffled about the testicle technique failing.

Good thing you had a kimono and undershorts on or it might have worked.

[Dennis Monk]

When you grab someone's balls in Judo and JJ we call that 5 on 2. (If you don't get it look at your hand = 5 fingers)



Just reading old threads and I have to say I'm glad I read this one.
I just hope my wife doesn't stumble across this. She gets mad when I practice my round kicks and armbars on her, and she is always looking for a way to get back at me. :up:

[Erik]

Defending against this sort of thing, and dealing with this technique once it is "set" is ridiculously easy. Should we start another thread about this? Share techniques on how to defend and/or endure this sort of thing?
Yes, actually, it might be a good idea.

I had a run in with this this weekend when my cousin and I did some MMA and protecting my eyes (one has a nice shiner today - we have a board meeting tomorrow for R & D - bad timing) forced me to adjust my technique more than I expected.

I think there are some uncomplicated solutions to protecting our jewels, eyes, and the like, but they ought to be discussed instead of glossed over. It merits some measure of conversation.

[starkjudo]

Just to comment on the biting thing...I'm surpised no one has mentioned about the sheer unsanitary aspect of it.

In the world of aids and other HIV-related diseases we have around us, there's tons better ways to attack/defend than biting.

[Erik]

In the world of aids and other HIV-related diseases we have around us, there's tons better ways to attack/defend than biting.
Yes, true, but if your opponent is psycho, chemically altered, desparate or panicked, this may not be on the forefront of his mind.

A friend of mine took a big bit of my shoulder when we were wrestling on the beach (he was drunk, I was just plain stupid). He had side-control and I brought up my leg, put it under his chin, and pressed him back with the leg. Somehow, he bit into my shoulder and got a good mouthfull. It could have been a nasty injury if I were not wearing a thick fleece. What a moron (I mean myself, for grappling him while he was drinking).