Knife training

[Kumsul Player]

I was wondering if anyone does any knife training. If so, where did you learn it? Was it from another art or within the art you are training in?

[glad2bhere]

Dear Jeremy:

For the art I practice (Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido) knife is the sixth of the six traditional weapons. Three problems come up with this weapon that I have run into repeatedly.

The first problem is that most Hapkido teachers almost uniformly teach knife from the standpoint of defense which is to say, someone assaults with a knife and the defender must counter with whatever is at hand, usually empty hand technique. As far as teaching knife as an offensive tool it is becomeing increasingly hard to find people who teach traditional Korean offensive knife-fighting. This also ties into the next issue.

The second problem is that traditionally use of the knife within the context of Korean martial science was usually what we might call here in the States as "woodcraft"or "camp craft". In this way the knife was less a weapon and more of a camp tool for tasks in the field.

The third problem is that while we usually think of knives as moderately sized tools, there is a form (hyung) in the MYTBTJ which addresses the combat use of "knives" which are described as having blades of some 18 inches long. Some folks might easily consider these short swords rather than knives. I am identifying a number of moves which at first examination might be used for either knife or short sword (as such), but a whole lot more research needs to be done. I can't say that I have found anything on the order of, say, tanto-jutsu as some styles of Japanese Ju-jutsu or Ken-jutsu. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[Kumsul Player]

Mst. Sims,

One problem I see is that too many instructors teach knife defense without understanding how to use the knife offensively. This too me is a huge drawback. I teach knife tactics and defense that I learned from Kali and arnis. Plus some combative knife I learned in the military. It makes a huge difference in the they way I teach self defense against a knife. It pains me to see the cookie-cutter tactics that many instructors use.

[glad2bhere]

Dear Jeremy:

".......One problem I see is that too many instructors teach knife defense without understanding how to use the knife offensively. This too me is a huge drawback....."

I think I know what you are saying, and perhaps this is a good time to be blatantly honest about Hapkido--- or Korean MA in general if it comes to that.

Since the WW II vets first started bringing MA back from the Orient and starting their commercial schools there have been two forces that nobody really wants to talk about. One force is the sense of "elitism" that comes from learning something dramatic and exotic. All kinds of mystical claims rose up around folks who practiced Oriental MA. Among these were things like Black Belt holders had super-human powers, or martial artists were trained to kill with a single blow. On the other end was another force that said that for a commercial school to work martial arts had to be available for everyone--- that MA WAS for everyone. As with everything the truth is neither one thing or another but somewhere in the middle. However, all this verbage is to say that there is something that keeps getting glossed over by BOTH ends of the spectrum.

First off, MA is NOT for everyone. MA can be boring, repetitive, painful tedium. This is the reason that so many teachers have to import material from other arts. Any SINGLE art can become relentlessly boring after a relatively short time.

The other point is that no single art is going to be all things to all people. For instance, the sword training I have studied in HwaRang Kumdo is many times over what I would have learned had I stuck only to the sword taught by GM Myung, Kwang Sik. And though there is ground-fighting in Hapkido it is nothing as extensive as that which is done in Brazilian Ju-Jutsu. And though I have only a passing introduction to Korean staff, I'll bet there is nowhere near the material one might find in Chinese or Okinawan MA.

I understand what you are saying about knife-fighting, but if someone takes Hapkido with the idea that they will learn an exhaustive catalogue of techniques across the entire range of MTHand, and weapons, they are terribly mistaken. The Hapkido arts will teach a sound foundation or introduction and then support the individual as they delve deeper. In your case, you would probably seek out other arts to expand your knife competence. For me, I would probably move in another direction.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[DragonMind]

I was wondering if anyone does any knife training. If so, where did you learn it? Was it from another art or within the art you are training in?

From another style: specifically Modern Arnis (Prof. Remy Presas) and Sayoc Kali (Tuhon Ray Dionaldo). If you've seen the movie The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones, that was Sayoc Kali. Both of these styles teach offensive use of the knife and show that most MA knife defensive moves are actually dangerous and stupid. What I've observed of Krav Maga - and I claim no expertise in it - is pretty realistic about the dynamics of a knife fight and techniques that work.

[ELBOHEMIO]

http://www.dsystem.com/catalog.htm

Dan Gum Sul

Tape D-01) Dan Gum Sul - the High Art of Knife Fighting
Street proven, military proven knife fighting tactics, never before revealed training drills and techniques, trapping, shadow tech, knife retention, forms, sparring and more ! This tape is a must for all serious martial artist!


Tape D-07) ADVANCED Knife Fighting Vol.1
Knife series continues. Complete knife long form, Drawing the blade for combat, Knife picking, Disarms, Reverse grip tech, Angle entry control drill, Reverse grip 5 point flow drill, Double edge knife tech, and much more!

Tape D-08) ADVANCED Knife Fighting Vol.2
Knife series continues. Snake cutting tech, Escape-hurt-destroy, Knife chopping tech, 5 point flow drill, Stand up grappling w/knife, Ground grappling w/knife, Environmental training, Double knives tech, and much more!

Tape D-09) ADVANCED Knife Fighting Vol.3
Knife series continues. Combined flow drills, Double knives tech w/mixed grips, Mixed weapons - knife and stick, Knife and stick flow drills, Knife sparring, and much more!


Coming Soon!....... New Intructional Tapes from De Alba Productions:

- Advanced Knife Fighting Vols. 4, 5 & 6
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You can Also check:

http://www.cqdt.com/Video.html

Phase III Weapons

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http://sammyfranco.com/warblade.html

http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/Videos/FSWeapons.shtml

Extreme Knife Fighting 1~4

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http://www.shootersbookshelf.com/index.shtml/15

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http://www.ichf.com/videos/weapondisarmvideos.htm

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Search the Japanese Version:

Tanto Jutsu

or check this websites

www.fcskali.com

www.sayoc.com

www.modernarnis.com

[Kumsul Player]

http://www.dsystem.com/catalog.htm

Dan Gum Sul...

Actually I am part of the DeAlba System. His tapes and knife fighting methodology is great.

[ELBOHEMIO]

Hello,

We are too part of GM De Alba Organization.


http://www.dsystem.com/images/PR2004index.html

In the photos you can see our Master, our Instructor and the rest of the group.

[Kumsul Player]

Hello,

We are too part of GM De Alba Organization.


http://www.dsystem.com/images/PR2004index.html

In the photos you can see our Master, our Instructor and the rest of the group.

Well small world brother. ;) If you look at my avatar, it was taken at the 5th Annual Warrior's Quest this year. I am the Chicago group he mentions from time to time. :)