View Full Version : Hardest Part of Martial arts "training"
MartialWarrior
09-02-2003, 18:42
What would you take?
None of the above.
I've seen MT, and it certainly is not the art I'll use for self defense.
WT, good concept, too bad I haven't seen any instructor or MAer that can teach it correctly (none of the WTers hailed as greats:Leung Ting, William Cheung; have any of the legendary skills told by people)
I don't like TKD-nuff' said.
Ron Rompen
09-02-2003, 20:44
TKD and Wing Chun are definitely not suitable for a person of my age and body type (and VERY limited flexibility)
MT is, although an excellent art, something which does not interest me at all, other than to watch.
Karate, specifically Goju Ryu, is what I would choose (and have chosen).
MartialWarrior
09-02-2003, 21:32
Hey arde, well what about Ving Tsun by Wong Shun Leung? Is it good?
I'm sorry about my previous statement...let me retract that back.
Wing Tsun has an interesting and sound concept, too bad that the people right now that claims to be the true grandmasters of WT (Leung Ting, William Cheung, Emin Boztepe) to get WT as part of the hype are merely that: HYPE.
I haven't seen Wong Shun Leung yet nor any other true WT martial artists yet: I spoke based on my previous experience with a WT school in San Antonio-it wasn't the best of experience, I guess.
However, like anything in the world, there are always 2 sides of the coin. While Leung Ting, Cheung, and Emin continues to make a mockery of the WT system in public, I'm sure other WTers are trying their best to keep the true philosophy and spirit of WT alive.
I've seen some WT techniques and concepts although I've never had the luck to try it with a true WTer. But from what I've seen of it, it's not quite suitable for me because I'm not too dexterous.
I'm more pro Baji-an aggresive direct hard straight through style even somewhat more aggresive than MT-although it's sometimes classified as an internal style (an aggresive internal style?!?! what is the world becoming to?:D )
Since I'm small, not very dexterous nor very agile, I see Baji as the perfect art for me-the one I'll certainly use in self defense.
Again with my delusional .02 dollars.:D
ninjandrew
09-03-2003, 17:16
Id like to study them all, than hack away the unnessentials.
But if I was to choose one, it would have to be WT or TKD.
TKD can be pretty intimidating once you get real good at it, and not many people expect so much kicking in a fight (of course it has punching and throws to). But WT is awesome for simple h2h, also it's simplicity and fluidity is a definite asset.
Does any1 else think WT lacks body movement? Like bobbing and weaving? Whenever me and my WT/JKD friend spar, he just stands in one place and either advances, or stands his ground. This could just be him, but I dont think Ive seen much body movement in WT in videos either.
47martialMan
11-18-2004, 09:54
None
Although the art develops the practitioner-
-it is the practitioner that "makes" the art effective.
Muay Thai is very good for sparring. But not soo good for self defense Judo and Aikido have some pretty good self defense moves as well as TKD and WC.
Why isn't tai chi on there? That would be the first thing I would take. I think it is very effective.
I think Mandeigh would agree with me.
Rasputin
11-21-2004, 22:17
TKD...has punching and throws to[o]...
I must admit, I have the barest layman's information in regards to TKD in all its forms, but I have never heard of any throws which are integral to the art. Would you mind enlightening me as to them? I would truly appreciate it.
Tribalweapon
11-21-2004, 22:48
I am going to have to go with Muay Thai. Nothing against Wing Chun or TKD(I am currently taking TKD).
I would only take TKD if you were built, flexible, and very fast, it is not meant so much as for the elderly and the people just looking for the "peace" of the sport in my opinion. Atleast where i learned it, it was very challenging and had much more to do with strength and flexibility than anything else.
On some earlier threads you said aikido was a good self defense art. You were correct friend! Aikido works more with disabling your oponent, and there are very few strikes, kicks, or jumps involved. Making it better for those of you without a build or high flexibility level.
Just puttin in my 2 cents :karate:
On some earlier threads you said aikido was a good self defense art. You were correct friend! Aikido works more with disabling your oponent, and there are very few strikes, kicks, or jumps involved. Making it better for those of you without a build or high flexibility level.
Yep, I concur.
Lawrence
11-26-2004, 18:17
Hi there.
I must admit that non of the above. But each has their own positive input for todays self defence.
I personally, if I was looking for a goshin experience, would choose Krav Maga, quick effective and brutal for todays standard.
Personally though, I think prevention is better than defense. You always have options, if you can defuse a situation great! If not, escape, if you can't escape then defend. But make sure you defend to the best of your ability for the given situation.
But try to be nice to people. If all I had for the last resort it would be Muay Thai, because at least then you know what it feels like to have the living turnip kicked out of you!!! :D
Take care, and good luck!
Lawrence Fisher.
But try to be nice to people.
Thats whats so great about Aikido, after you come out of that dojo, your usually giving off such a great essence/aura, nobody would ever hit you...Idealy thats the best self defense, cause you never have to throw a punch or step off-the-line
I would have to visit each school and see how they trained. Picking an art solely based on reputation can be a big mistake. However, if I were to see all these arts advertised in the yellowpages, I would keep looking for hapkido. :D
jakmak52
02-03-2005, 16:02
None of the above..Krav Maga or Aikido :)
DragonMind
02-03-2005, 16:19
#1 call in artillery
#2 Sniper rifle at 500 yards
#3 45 cal handgun at 25 feet
#4 Large, sharp knife (e.g. tusok bolo) or solid stick
#5 Large, angry dog
#6 PO'ed, drunk ex-girlfriend with PMS (might violate constitutional issues of cruel and unusual, though)
#7 Some form of unarmed combat with good realistic training
bloodymonkey117
02-03-2005, 18:10
i dunno... never really needed much flexibility for wing chun. And actually, isn't it meant for small people? trouble is finding a good teacher...
-Gabe
#6 PO'ed, drunk ex-girlfriend with PMS (might violate constitutional issues of cruel and unusual, though)
I don't know, Barry. That kind rings number one to me.
All three originated from military/combat use. They all work, but it depends on the particular curriculum of the school. MT and TKD have their military versions, which use maiming techniques not permitted in sport sparring. WC/WT can be a deadly art if you put power behind the techniques. (The same can be said for just about every striking art. :rolleyes: )
Self defence does not take years to learn. 3 months of training in a competent curriculum, you can save your bacon, under most circumstances. Besides, self defence is not all about fighting. Fighting skill is the last component in personal security. Fighting skill alone is insufficient to ensure your security. Precaution. Situation awareness. Avoidance. proper De-escalation. All of these come first, and are the primary deterministic factors of your security. You can greatly enhance your personal and family security immediately, w/o years of martial art training, if you pay attention to the factors mentioned above.
Self defence does not take years to learn. 3 months of training in a competent curriculum, you can save your bacon, under most circumstances. Besides, self defence is not all about fighting. Fighting skill is the last component in personal security. Fighting skill alone is insufficient to ensure your security. Precaution. Situation awareness. Avoidance. proper De-escalation. All of these come first, and are the primary deterministic factors of your security. You can greatly enhance your personal and family security immediately, w/o years of martial art training, if you pay attention to the factors mentioned above.
Hot damm Ken, you hit the nail right on the head. I agree that most situations can be avoided with situational awareness.
Also something that's not mentioned alot is ego. I work in 2 innercities and many fights, stabbing, and shootings occur because of ego in my opinion. Who looked at who wrong, or a male walking by a group of gangbangers because he wants to show he's not afraid. All could be avoided if ego was not let to get the best of them.
DragonMind
02-04-2005, 07:48
Hmmm...missed one
#3.5 2nd 45 cal handgun at 20 feet (1st one's clip is empty by now)
Hmmm...missed one
#3.5 2nd 45 cal handgun at 20 feet (1st one's clip is empty by now)
Ugh, .45's don't hold clips. They have magazines. M1 Garands have clips. Come on Barry you should know that. Didn't they still issue Garands when you were in. :D
Clips, magazines, rounds, bullets all pet peeves of mine.
DragonMind
02-04-2005, 10:44
Ugh, .45's don't hold clips. They have magazines. M1 Garands have clips. Come on Barry you should know that. Didn't they still issue Garands when you were in. :D
Clips, magazines, rounds, bullets all pet peeves of mine.
Nah, we got pointy sticks. Just as I mustered out they were bringing in bows.
Magazines go in bathrooms...
:laugh:
..... I work in 2 innercities and many fights, stabbing, and shootings occur because of ego in my opinion. Who looked at who wrong, or a male walking by a group of gangbangers because he wants to show he's not afraid. All could be avoided if ego was not let to get the best of them.
That is so true. Not only you have to keep your ego from getting the better of you, you also need to pay attention not to provoke the ego of a scumbag with a deadly weapon on his hand and a piss-poor attitude to match. The recent shooting in NYC is a textbook case of what not to say in a hold-up.
KineticEngineer
04-20-2005, 15:08
quote:The man whose profession is arms should calm his mind and look into the depths of others. Doing so is likely the best of the martial arts.
- Shiba Yoshimasa
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain -- and most fools do.
- Dale Carnegie
Haha spot on my friend spot on, it is stupid to talk about this that, the seceret isnt the system its the application. I class myself as a man, not a system. My system has helped me to develop myself, but the way I further enlighten myself is not lim,ited by what art I do. I prefer to look att the essence, train hard and use what works. If I train on my own, with the correct questions, and have the knowledge i need, I dont need a system to make me what I am, So In essence all that realy matter in a self defence sittuation is the outcome, it is the way of conflict, and ma has nothing to do with that. Ma can help you discover how to be More "effective" and has new ideas, but when we fight it is war. Animal to animal. and remember all systems and sytlyes are developed by people duting war times, who have had tofight and as a result they know their sysytem works. They are warriors, I would challange anybody who was iggnorant enough to say a system could defeat me. We have always engaged in conflict since the beggining of time, so the idea that TKD or Wing Chun is effective in a streetfight is stupid, only the person can be effective. If Im sitting having a cup of tea and someone trys to hit me, and i move, he falls over, and I leave or whatever. Did I use taekwondo, no I used human movement. The Art of MOvement and The Way of Conflict. I take paret in mma open style fighting, so I leave nothing to speculation. I use what works because If it didnt I get my *** kicked.. sorry for ranting HT
ninjandrew
04-20-2005, 22:10
i dunno... never really needed much flexibility for wing chun. And actually, isn't it meant for small people
Yes. Doesnt wing chun mean short hand something? :confused: I do remember looking up some wing chun related stuff on the internet, and discovering their is a style which meant `long` hand (something). Basically wing chun for lankier guys ,like myself. I wish I could remember, it was interesting. Ill do a search...
None of the three mentioned originally. Judo is useful because of the throws and especially the strangles/chokes and armlocks, however I wouldn't take any martial if what I wanted was self defence. If you want to learn self defence then take a self defence class. They focus solely on practical and effective techniques including some "dirty" ones. If your life's in danger, anything goes.
Richard
For self-defence I would prefer to employ my feet...to run away. Second to that I would use the cane...since I frequently have that with me. (My two guns, being disassembled and at home in a drawer would not serve.) Then, of course, there is always the car...or my 750-lb motorcycle if it be in the summer.
After all of the above, I'd fall back to TKD if they were mid-range, Jujutsu if they were closer, my pearly whites if they were closer yet. :D
As for the hardest part, that would have to be those little accidents you have with your sparing partner which tend to result in corporeal asymetries. At the moment I have one thumb swollen half again the size of its mate.
Jared Sutton
12-09-2005, 17:35
I'm not sure but I think that when MW put this thread up he meant, "What's the most you would/could take when it came to training?" I think the poll was unrelated. This would be more in tune with the title, "hardest part of martial arts training." :bow:
baralaba
12-10-2005, 09:50
I thought the question asked is what style would you take. My answer is take the style of the best teacher you can find in your area. Personally my styles have been Tong Long, Aikido ju jitsu, Brazilian ju jitsu and currently zosaro ju jitsu. I seem to have taken a liking to ju jitsu. I think that those who teach it (ju jitsu), and practise it, are good people. A certain type of person is attratecked to ju jitsu. those of us who have done other styles and resprect the true knowedge end up doing some form of ju jitsu. my opinion only of course. I coud be wrong.
.... I think that those who teach it (ju jitsu), and practise it, are good people. A certain type of person is attratecked to ju jitsu. those of us who have done other styles and resprect the true knowedge end up doing some form of ju jitsu. ....
I've found the same thing with judo. All the judoka I've met have been very sound, solid people (solid in both senses of the word :D )
Richard
SportKarate
12-18-2005, 03:44
Most of the martial art classes, regardless of style, isn't really focused on the practicality of real fights. These classes are designed to learn the art of what ever style they are teaching.
Self-Defense specific classes are the most effective type of classes. Unfortunate, you don't find a lot of them in a regular scheduled basis.
But if you're talking what style is more effective, I'd say none of them and all of them. It all depends on the skill of the martial art practitioner.
kenpo123
12-18-2005, 12:08
BUnko aki ju wan foo shogon tai chee woooo would be my first choice, of martial arts training
Hardest Part of Martial arts "training"
Poll Options
What art is the most effective in your opinion? (for fighting & self-defense)
Muay Thai
Wing Chun KungFu
TaeKwonDo ITF
How does this topic relate to this poll?
I'm guessing: zero, zip, zilch, nada, nuffin' etc ad nauseam.
Besides, the 'what's the most effective martial arts' threads have been posted on these forums quite often. Flogging a dead horse, if you ask me. The general consensus is that's it's the martial artist, not the art that matters. Perhaps something to keep in mind when reviewing the ' Sticky: Please read before starting a thread'-thread.
Dion Wilbur
12-27-2005, 09:16
None of the above...but I have taken concepts from each, more from Muay Thai then the other 2, over the years I have learned what suits 'me'..
Yang Wei Xin
12-27-2005, 10:48
those arent really the three i would pick in a "whats the best contest", but of the three i chose mt becuase it seems to have the greatest flexibility of range.
and the hardest part of martial arts training is not giving up when you make an *** of yourself.
Khali Varsha
01-12-2006, 14:29
Yes. Doesnt wing chun mean short hand something? :confused: I do remember looking up some wing chun related stuff on the internet, and discovering their is a style which meant `long` hand (something). Basically wing chun for lankier guys ,like myself.
Wing Chun is designed to work really well for small people. The mythology behind it's beginnings was that a small Shaolin nun devoloped it, and while that is not proven, it does illustrate that a small woman can easily utilize it.
As far as which of the 3 arts are more effective, that is a pretty vague question since it depends on how you are using it personally. Wing Chun is designed to be better for close range without as much regard to personal strength and size. TKD will be of more use to someone who's looking for sport competition, though I here ITF is a lot more effective than just for sports. Muay Thai will be of more use to someone who has a lot more physical speed and strength.
But that is just how the arts are thought about in general. In reality, what will be most effective is the one you can find a good teacher for and can dedicate yourself to and enjoy. Anyone who is good in any of those three martial arts will be better than anyone who is mediocre in the other two.
Or, that is my opinion at least ;)
TroyRoget
01-16-2006, 14:48
None of the above..Krav Maga or Aikido :)
That's a very interesting combination there.
Jeff Burger
03-23-2006, 08:05
Ditto Jabonn
This was great....
"Self defence does not take years to learn. 3 months of training in a competent curriculum, you can save your bacon, under most circumstances. Besides, self defence is not all about fighting. Fighting skill is the last component in personal security. Fighting skill alone is insufficient to ensure your security. Precaution. Situation awareness. Avoidance. proper De-escalation. All of these come first, and are the primary deterministic factors of your security. You can greatly enhance your personal and family security immediately, w/o years of martial art training, if you pay attention to the factors mentioned above. "
Jeff
I must admit, I have the barest layman's information in regards to TKD in all its forms, but I have never heard of any throws which are integral to the art. Would you mind enlightening me as to them? I would truly appreciate it.
Traditional Tae Kwon Do is much closer to its Shotokan/Shito-Ryu/Shudokan roots and includes a lot of hoshinsul (selfdefense) techniques along with one and three step sparring drills. Also, the very first of the Kwans established in Seoul started off as a judo school that also taught karate. Hoshinsul techniques include throws, trips, and joint locks for use against armed and unarmed attackers. These hohsinsul techniques in traditional Tae Kwon Do are derived from the judo/jujutsu that was taught in Korea during the Colonial Period. I also suspect that there was a lot of interaction between Hapkido and proto-Tae Kwon Do in their formative years. However, Tae Kwon Do's hoshinsul is not nearly as refined as that of a pure jujutsu ryu like Daito-ryu or Aikido. Also, most TKD schools these days tend to be competition and sport oriented and only treat hoshinsul as an afterthought, so these techniques are usually taught at an even lower and less refined level. Unfortunately, a lot of the TKD schools out there are McDojos that are only interested in making money by churning out half trained black belts that mistake what is effective in tournaments for effective selfdefense.
All that said, I agree with the posts here on unarmed fighting as being the last resort in self defense and that it is the practitioner and not the art that is going to make it effective. If it comes down to me having to use my Tae Kwon Do and Aikido, I have most likely screwed up somewhere along the way to find myself in this position. Anyways, this topic has been beat to death in several other threads recently (Questions about Self-Defense, Toby's New Article, Ishin-Ryu vs Aikido). I think the whole, "which MA is most effective for self defense" question is kind of silly and the title of this thread is misleading, since it states that it is a question about training, not selfdefense. See my posts in the Ishhin-Ryu vs Aikido (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14584&page=3&pp=20) thread for my opinions of martial arts and selfdefense.
Ninjalord
03-23-2006, 21:29
The Cooper Colour Codes pretty much sum up how I feel about self-defense, and defense of others.
The Cooper Colour Codes pretty much sum up how I feel about self-defense, and defense of others.
????? :confused: ?????
Pardon my ignorance, but I am unfamiliar with this.
Yang Wei Xin
03-24-2006, 11:11
http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States%20of%20Awareness.htm
Thanks. Jeff Cooper usually has some valuable insights.
#1 call in artillery
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
BTW-This is my first post here. Hello everybody! Excellent website! Great resource! I will be using the search button often!
lazancot
04-12-2006, 11:03
I would say that without a doubt that Muay Thai is the most effective for raw power and simplicity. The others are more suitable to other body types in my opinion. I have incorporated many techniques from all three of the arts and they are all useful arts but in much different ways. Muay Thai is not going to teach you very effective blocks unlike Wing Chun. Also is in regards to one on one or a street self defence situation?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
BTW-This is my first post here. Hello everybody! Excellent website! Great resource! I will be using the search button often!
Welcom aboard, sir.
if somone can what is your opinion on what would be the most effective, external or internal martial arts? and what really is the difference?
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