View Full Version : Going up against a woman...
I talked to a few people about possibly joining our WMKS class here at school, or just taking karate in general. Some of the people I tried to coax in seemed interested, but they seemed turned off by the prospect of fighting a girl. I don't know what it was - be it losing and looking bad, worried for her sake, whatever - it just kinda stopped right there.
I don't know what it is; is anyone here apprehensive about fighting a woman, for whatever reason? I...really don't; I mean, an opponent is an opponent, right?
Jeff Burger
10-04-2003, 06:16
Im not. Id like to know about the person so I can go at their level.
Or help them with what they need.
Im very conscerned about safety so almost everybody in our school spars with me first.
I also dont like unknowns going against each other at our place.
I like them to know how hard they can go on each other or if someone doesnt have a good attitude towards sparring...
I know I punch Fightgrrl full power in body and she will come back for more, and now she is even ok with the blackeye thing.
I dont even let the newbies see that cause they think Im going to abuse them like that (I hope to someday but its a progression).
Jeff
thebigj8
10-04-2003, 07:16
I don't mind mixing it up with the ladies. In fact, there's a gal in my class who always challenges me when it comes time to spar.
It makes sense. I'm a man. I stand about 6'2 and weigh roughly 220lbs. If she's really gonna need her skills, it'll probably be against someone like me (physically).
She's probably the most technically sound students we've got. Throws beautiful kicks and conducts herself with a great deal of poise.
Every week, when I'm stowing my gear after sparring, I always quitely hope my daughter grows up with that kind of focus and guts.
I like to train with different type of people, don't care about gender, political position, religion or anything like that... Only that matters is the persons capabilities and skills, and the commitment of training.
But some women friends of mine have told that there comes sometimes problem with some young guys who can't stand for loosing for girl ..
With respect,
Riku Ylönen
Originally posted by riku
But some women friends of mine have told that there comes sometimes problem with some young guys who can't stand for loosing for girl ..
Their egos are probably too fragile; I see where they're coming from.
As I said, I really don't care most of the time if it's a guy or a girl. What really bothers me is fighting little kids. When we would free-fight back in my TSD school, I would often find myself fighting a red- or black-belt who couldn't have been more than 11 years old. Most of the time they weren't any taller than my stomach. I'd have to kneel down to throw a center punch to their head.
The biggest hangup I have is that the moral battle is clearly a lose-lose situation. Win and it's like, "Hey, did you see my fight? I won!" "Well I should hope so, you're thrice his size...", but lose, and it suddely becomes, "Man, I got worked by that kid out there, man." "(pointing) BWA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA!!!"
tkdcanada
10-05-2003, 11:48
Look at it from the little kid's point of view. He/She starts right of in a position of disadvantage. They are obviously less experience and if they're not, their brains usually are not able to comprehend all the psychology that goes into sparring (just yet anyway), they are obviously much smaller and weaker. But...they wouldn't be able to get good at it if they didn't have the chance to spar with older, better people. So, our job as adults is to give them a good challenge and show them through experience how they can improve.
I don't really see it as fighting a girl, just training with them.
My view on this is reflected on my faveourite quote, which I think was either from here or possibly E-Budo.
"All I see is gi" !
That's how I train and that's how I teach.
Fire_Wings
04-06-2004, 19:42
I'm not sure if anyone's considered this, but it's quite offencive when people hold back due to geder.
Macho men who come to class laughing and thinking they'll win due to being "big guys" (not all are like this, of course) well, they often laugh when a 100-pound-teenage-girl walks up to them. Choking stops laughter. :up: hehe.
point is, nobody should be afraid to grapple/spar/train with a female.
I am apprehensive when fighting a woman. They generally are more aggressive and have a MUCH higher pain tolerance than men.
I'm not scared for them. I'm scared for ME.
My right-hand "man" is a woman - her website is www.goshinryuwabujitsu.com . I would put her up against ANYBODY (except me, of course! ;)) She has almost handed me my testicles on a few occassions.
When engaged in high-risk security operations I have had to engage women in fights many times. I learned real quick to handle them like men. I have seen women "on the street" beat up many men - and these women weren't "trained" in the conventional sense.
Violence is not gender-specific. Evil intent is not gender specific. Fighting ability is not gender-specific. I have trained under many very competent female sensei who taught me very good lessons while knocking the crap out of me.
Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu
torbjorn
04-10-2004, 01:09
agree with Jeff C. generally, and specifically:
- Violence is not SEX-specific (it IS gender specific, in that males are usually conditioned into using and accepting violence as an acceptable method of social interaction, and I'll stop myself there before this turns in to a Ph.D. thesis...)
- Women (in the martial arts at least, and this may not be representative for the population as a whole) can take surprising amounts of punishment.
Also, I have found that most women in the MA are more proficient technically than (most) men at the same grade level, and so I tend to respect them as sparring partners as much as I do any man. When I was a beginner, it was routine for me to have my hindquarters kicked by higher-ranked women, and even today I occasionally take the odd foot to the head (my blocks being slow).
Overall, I feel that it is most beneficial for women to spar with men, as it mimics (to a degree) the situations they will find themselves in, and I find it excruciatingly annoying when men say that it's "unfair" to spar with a woman. Particularly when a lot of the same people would probably turn a blind eye to some doofhead beating his girlfriend or wife (or daughter, the powers forbid) senseless every weekend.
Jeff Burger
04-10-2004, 07:18
Sparring is not fighting, and I think man vs woman sparring is an ever greater difference.
Few fights start at the squared off position, even less when a man attacks a woman.
Also chances are the woman will know her attacker an that can play a large role in what kind an how much force she is willing to use.
I see women's self defense classes that teach all these deadly / crippling strikes and hype it up with alot of scenario fear.
Striking eyes, throat... against some unknown in a dark alley has its merits but its not as likely to happen.
You think of more likely scenarios like a inlaw or family friend getting to grabby and she is not as likely to use harsh force.
Example...
A woman ( 17 at the time) is attacked by her sisters fiance.
She didnt want to do anything cause she worried about her sisters happiness.
While striking can keep distance an has potential to end a fight quickly I think grappling needs to be a major part or of solid self defense especially for a woman and it seems to be a art fewer women do compared to striking.
Jeff
While striking can keep distance an has potential to end a fight quickly I think grappling needs to be a major part or of solid self defense especially for a woman and it seems to be a art fewer women do compared to striking.
Jeff
I absolutely agree. Grappling teaches you self defence against a resisting partner. There is no choreographed strike here and then I will do that. In my classes we are taught different moves and counter moves that may be the focus of the class for that day, but when in a full resistive sparring situation they all go out the window and you use whatever technique you can to get a submission.
In a situation where your attacker gets you down to the ground a woman needs to be able to think fast and defend herself with hopes of getting him off of her and getting away. I doubt that I would ever be able to pin an attacker until help comes but if I can sweep him off allowing me time to get away it could may make all the difference.
Good advisor
11-15-2004, 06:58
When I sparr with a women or girl or children I go very light on them since ages becuse I feel they are weaker then me, I nevre go fullout but I never let them win.
I agree that grapping is suited for women then men.
Estrella
11-15-2004, 08:51
You wouldn't get away with going very light on me, Mr. Good Advisor. As soon as I realise that a male sparring partner is going light because he thinks women are "weaker", my ego sort of takes over, and then I end up sparring out of anger at people who think I'm too weak to handle a normal sparring power rate because of my gender. Which is not supposed to happen- sparring is so you can learn from it, not beat up people who think I can't handle it. :( :mad:
So don't try that trick with me- your ego will end up bruised as well as your body!! :mad:
I tell all them men they aren't doing me any favors by "being nice" to me when they fight. Fight me so I can learn here and be more ready on the street. I plan to learn more grappling...I think this is also a good idea. :t2:
Estrella
11-15-2004, 08:58
I tell all them men they aren't doing me any favors by "being nice" to me when they fight. Fight me so I can learn here and be more ready on the street. I plan to learn more grappling...I think this is also a good idea. :t2:
My feelings exactly...if you ever get attacked on the street, your attacker isn't going to be nice and gentle, is he?
Sparring against a woman with equal or better ability, I will not "go easy" on her, but I also won't hit her full on, as I might a male, if those are the conditions we are sparring under.
In other words, I won't let her get away with mistakes, but I'm also not looking to knock her out.
Against a man or woman with lesser abilities, I'll let them know they made a mistake, but I'll also leave them more openings to encourage their aggressiveness.
Mandeigh Wells
11-15-2004, 16:02
no I don't think men and women should be put up against each other, and for no other reason than their gender....I hate having to go easy on a bloke :up:
:laugh:
Sometimes it's tricky.
I cannot help it - I just don't like administering pain to women. It's not that I don't take them seriously and certainly not that I mean to be disrespectful, but I have psychological block. I can get over it with grappling but when it comes to striking, this mental block makes hitting feel like I'm moving through molasses. It actually feels physically harder to move my body.
I don't mind being beaten by a woman any more than by a guy. I respect people who have worked hard and become good at what they do. If she can beat me and a 3rd party makes fun, I'l let that 3rd party take her on and find out and I'll respect her even more.
Also, sometimes I run into a specific problem when training with women.
If I go hard, I risk really pissing them off. They seem to take things more personally than guys do. Either that, or I can read guys' expressions and body language more intuitively and can spot the warning signs more quickly. Don't know which.
If I go too lightly, I risk pissing them off because they don't think they are being taken seriously, which is not how I mean it. I'm just trying to find a groove with a new training partner. Since I'm 210 lbs, I usually out-size them by quite a bit and they can tell that I'm not giving it 100%. This is especially true if they wind up winning a round.
If I am clumsy in trying to ask "how's this for a tempo?" then they get pissed off again, as if I'm asking them a question I wouldn't ask a guy (in their mind) and am thereby insulting them and then they get angry again.j
When I'm teaching, I don't usually have this problem. I can ask how the tempo and intensity is for them and somehow, apparently because of the position, they take it differently.
In clubs where there are a few women already, if only one of them and I understand each other in terms of workout intensity, I'll soon find a groove with the rest of them. I guess that the one who "gets it" explains it. From there on out, we're teammates and work well together. But before breaking that ice it's really hard.
I really miss the women at my old Judo club while I was in grad school. Great teammates. Tough, highly capable, healthy, robust and resiliant egos, and they loved the sport as much as I did.
They also enjoyed the learning process and saw that it was different for different people (and sometimes genders) and had nothing to prove.
They seemed to understand the difference between "going technical" without my emphasizing my strength and weight vs. going all out.
redqueen290
11-15-2004, 22:06
I like sparring guys. There usually ALLOT harder on me, well the guys in my school that is. They know me, and know that I can take the hits. But when we go to other schools as visitors or they come to our school, the guys are alwayse really really nice to me. So I make sure to inform them that they can hit me just as hard as they hit everyone else. They usually ignore me untill I start pounding the crap out of them. Then they realize what I mean, and spar me hard. I hate sparring light, I need to feel the pain of getting hit, I don't know, it gets the adrenaline going. :D
Erik,
Sorry for your "women" training problems..but I have to admit that sometimes we can be hard to figure out. I like to train hard and must fight the guys.. there are only a few other women in my school and they are not skilled enough to be a challenge...that's why I'm clear when I tell the guys to fight me..if I fall a few times or get a good shot and they feel bad and start apologizing.. I jump up and tell them to keep fighting...after they realize I won't break if they hit me, they seem to be OK with the fighting... for the most part no one appreciates getting the cr** beat out of them by someone alot more skilled -male or female- and senior students should have enough control to fight color belts at their level so they can learn, but if someone is mentally ready to fight hard...its OK to knock them down - How many of your women friends know what it feels like to have the wind knocked out of them? How many of them have been hit in the head hard? I have felt all these things because of karate...and I know if it happens to me on the street I won't crumble. It may hurt, but I CAN still fight(even if I can't breath or my head is throbbing). I won't stand there in shock.
To some degree this applies to kids as well...if one of kids takes a good shot in fight class -well the first time they may cry and be very upset, gingerly/carefully I make them finish the present fight...its important that they realize they may feel pain,but they are OK-they can keep fighting. When it happens to them again on another day they are not surprised and, usually, don't need my encouragement to keep going.
Chris Wade
11-16-2004, 09:00
I'm not sure if anyone's considered this, but it's quite offencive when people hold back due to geder.
Macho men who come to class laughing and thinking they'll win due to being "big guys" (not all are like this, of course) well, they often laugh when a 100-pound-teenage-girl walks up to them. Choking stops laughter. :up: hehe.
point is, nobody should be afraid to grapple/spar/train with a female.
I agree with you completely. I think it's insulting to the female student if you refuse to fight/train with them.
I train in jiu-jitsu, and we have a new male student, who is probably about 6'2" tall. He was sparring with a female green belt. It was obvious he didn't want to hit her. The funny part is, she picked him as a partner specifically because he was so big and she wanted to work on fighting someone larger.
I explained that we are all equal here and told him "hey, it's okay to hit her, she signed the waiver" :D
To respond to the comment about "winning" or "losing", as an instructor, when I spar or grapple with a student, I don't look at it as winning or losing. Sure, I could probably beat them soundly, but what good does that do either of us? We promote fighting to your partner's level, or slightly above. So a black belt grappling with a yellow belt will step down and provide the student with a challenge. Soimetimes, this means you get caught in a technique, armbar, strangle, or whatever. Instead of seeing it as "damn, they got me", think of it as "hey that was a great technique. My instruction probably lead to them being able to do that.".
Also, you need to let the student apply the technique sometimes so they can get the feel for completing the technique, not just attempting it and having you block it.
Dennis Monk
11-17-2004, 07:56
At our school we only have one female that comes regularly, and a few that come just every so often. I really enjoy sparring with the one that comes regularly. The reason is this. When I first started there she and I sparred. I walked onto the mat thinking, "OK, you have nothing to prove here, just do what you can and learn." She and I started to go at it and and I was kind unsure of how to handle this. I had never done anything physical with a female, uh let me re-phrase that, I had never sparred with a female before, and I was actually thinking about not hurting her. The next thing I knew I caught a ridge hand strike to the right side of my head and it dazed me. I thought, "What just happened? How did that happen?" When we were through she came over and said that I keep dropping my right hand when I throw my left back fist. :eek:
I spar her now every chance I get. :D
tkdcanada
11-17-2004, 08:03
There is one pretty big guy in my school and we are a good match for sparring. One day he caught me with a kick straight down onto my nose, they could hear it at the other side of the gym (didn't break, but bled a lot). Anyway, I think he was more bothered by it than me, he was apologizing so much! :p We all know what we're getting into when we step into the ring and as women, we wouldn't be there if we thought we couldn't handle it.
We all know what we're getting into when we step into the ring and as women, we wouldn't be there if we thought we couldn't handle it.I'm not so sure, Michaeline. It seems that some (certainly not all) women seem to be thinking more along the lines of health, fitness, dancing and grace (worthy goals) as opposed to coming in and getting beaten to a pulp and asking for more like a boxer.
Those who stick around for a while certainly know what to expect, but with new ones... I don't know. These ones sometimes freak out when they take a hit or when they feel helpless being tied up on the mat.
Everyone (of both genders) suffers from some panic and anxiety while they are getting used to grappling. It's scary to be on the ground with a massive body holding you down and there's absolutely nothing you can do. I've felt it, too.
And pulling guard is rather personal for women. It takes some time to get used to.
I'm still trying to figure out how to be a supportive training partner. I don't think it's something that 210 lbs of muscular male can engender (I look like Igor Vovchanchen mixed with our moderator Cliff). I think these ones need a woman who can help them get used to it.
I grew up with three adorable little sisters, each one cuter than the other (hands off, guys!), and it really throws me to be seen as a scary guy and have a woman panic while trying to work out instead of as a supportive and safe (within the realm of our sport) influence.
It's really hard for me to do this. It's something of a problem and I really struggle with it.
(I'm still only referring to the subset of women in paragraph 2, not all women, of course).
tkdcanada
11-17-2004, 11:48
I guess you're right, Erik. I must admit I'm guilty of not really seeing that side since I'm one of those women who enjoys getting hit as much as doing the hitting. (ONLY IN A SPARRING SITUATION, NOT IN REAL LIFE, LOL) I just have a lot of fun. By maybe I'm like that because I do feel safe while I'm sparring, so I am not likely to panic. The guy I was talking about is in the 200 lbs or so range and i suppose, to turn the tables around, you guys don't really know what we are thinking and how we will react. All you know is that you are almost twice our size and much more powerful. So in that respect I can understand. It's just not something I think about, I tend to go in with no fear. Good point.
That's why we're glad for women like you.
You can explain the subtilties of the rules of the mat to the new women and help them feel comfortable enough in finding a tempo that works for them and encourage them to feel comfortable communicating with the guys. It really helps.
Sorry for misspelling your name, Michleine, by the way.
tkdcanada
11-17-2004, 14:32
Sorry for misspelling your name, Michleine, by the way.
No problem, 95% of people botch it up, I'm used to it. :p
Pacificshore
11-17-2004, 15:39
When I trained in Shotokan several years back, I would spar with a female bb( now a good friend of mine). She would be the one to give me a good sparring session. She'd always trade shot for shot, and never a whimper. Heck, the only hard sparring session I recalled that involved a male counterpart was with a 3rd dan :cool:
DragonMind
11-19-2004, 13:22
No problem, 95% of people botch it up, I'm used to it. :p
And the other 5% can't pronounce it correctly either! :laugh:
tkdcanada
11-19-2004, 17:32
And the other 5% can't pronounce it correctly either! :laugh:
You should hear them say my LAST name!! :eek: That's how I usually know if telephone solicitors are calling me - If they can't pronounce my name, it's no one I know and probably a solicitor! :wink2:
I find this thread interesting because my instructor is actually a woman. I have taken from several men, several different times in my life, but my Sensei is really the only one for me. At the time that I met her, it almost looked weird to me to see a woman wearing a karate gi, much less teaching the class. However, she was so knowledgeable and skillfull that I had to switch from my Sensei of 4 years to her, it was just the right move.
While she does take it easier on us than was done to her, she still tries to push us. Probably the thing that helps her best is the fact that when she was coming up (in the late 60's early 70's), there was only men - and usually testorone driven ex-gi's brandishing their style of karate on anyone stupid enough to believe it was the real-deal. Basically, after fighting men for so long and getting pounded on enough, she basically became (for better or worse) fearless. It's almost scary in a way. She is the only woman I've ever met that, at least to my knowledge of training with women and meeting others that did martial arts, remained true to what she did, loyal, and never ask for anything just because she was a woman. And some of instructors we mean son's of b$#*hes too.
However, aside from some injuries that sustain her now, I would not drop a dime to taking it easy on her, because I know when she wants to she could still have her way with me. It's basically because when you're a woman, you have to use what works, why, and then be able to apply it. Granted I said "use", not "learn", because sometimes learning can be heresay. She was a police officer for quite some time, as well as having some other sticky situations develop, and most of her syblings do martial arts or boxing also, so she had to know - not guess or be told - what is effective and what isn't. That's is one of the reasons why she's such a great teacher. It's kind of like preparing to fight a caged animal...am I stronger than her - yes, but by sex-genes really. Am I in better shape - well definately not for the wear and tear, but maybe. Would she still own me in anyway possible - absolutely. Why? Because in the end, she will only resort to what works because it has to, plain and simple.
That is why I feel I am fortunate to have a female as a Sensei. I'd crawl into a fox-hole with her anyday!
FearlessFreep
01-27-2005, 21:27
We have one female in our class. She's about 15 and more experienced then me and quite a bit quicker than the other adults in the class.
I figure she has the uniform on because she wants to learn and practice; she wants to be there,so that's good enough for me. When it comes to it, it's just a hogu to target and a set of hands and feet to avoid. It doesn't really matter to me if she is female, just that she is quick and more experienced, so I have to be on my game to spar her.
Bottom line is, you put on the hogo, you put on the dobak, you step on the mat; means to me you want to be there and are ready to compete. Male, female, young, old...just a different set of skills and experiences and mindset, but just a competitor and just an opponent
To be honest...I know very few (and by that I mean none) 15 yr. old girls that scare me. It would just be too easy to capture and smuther them with strikes. In general I've found that - by given rules or subliminal messages - we (guys) take it easier on girls in sparring....Now wheter or not this is wrong or right, or advantageous to either group, is up for discussion. However, I would submit that most men in any case, could smother a 15 yr. old girl no matter what, but based only on muscle development and genes. Like I said, my sensei is a woman and I would never want to mess with her...but age is age....
Many respects to the women that truly practice the arts though! I am honored...
Rasputin
01-29-2005, 09:00
Now for the million-dollar question: for all of the females who have so graciously contributed to this thread so far, would you still advocate sparring against a male of equal rank if the sparring was full contact? Point-sparring and light-touch are not in consideration. Gloves, no gloves, boxing or kyokushin bare-knuckle all apply.
I know that there are some among us who do so on a regular basis, but one must admit that they are statistical outliers.
Having had two older brothers and no sisters growing up- I'd say absolutely, I have no qualms about sparring with males of greater or equal rank. I've actually had the most problems with males of lesser rank who want to "prove" something.
FearlessFreep
01-29-2005, 11:48
However, I would submit that most men in any case, could smother a 15 yr. old girl no matter what
I probably could if it came down to it Right now, though, at this point in my training, when facing any opponent my mindset is more along the lines of working on footwork, tactics, and any particular techniques I'm working on developing or trying to work on for that session. Whether the opponet is male or female doesn't matter to me so much as recognizing and reacting to how fast or slow or tall or whatever..
I find this thread interesting because my instructor is actually a woman. I have taken from several men, several different times in my life, but my Sensei is really the only one for me. At the time that I met her, it almost looked weird to me to see a woman wearing a karate gi, much less teaching the class. However, she was so knowledgeable and skillfull that I had to switch from my Sensei of 4 years to her, it was just the right move.....
Ronin81,
I know this is going to sound weird, but back in the late 70's early 80's I trained under a woman who sounds a lot like your instructor. Just to clearify, this was in Florida so there's probably no chance that this could be the same person. However, she was a police officer, and so was I. She was teaching a whole group of us "law enforcement types." :) She taught Shito Ryu, Seishin-Kai.
I remember leaving her classes dripping with sweat, and feeling like I had been run over by a mac-truck. She made us run before class. Anywhere from 2 to 7 miles, depending. She was really fit and would lead the group, while we struggled along behind. After that we would go into the dojo (which had no ac and concrete floors), and do stretching and basics, and that was just the first part of class.
Next we would do kata and bunkai, followed by the specific police related training (handcuffing, wrist locks, jujitsu). Finally, we would fight, and she would fight all of us. There were no women in our class. It was just her and us, and she beat the crap out of us! We didn't wear any pads back then, and there was no mat. If you were swept, which she did often, you landed on the concrete.
Since then I've seen more women in karate, some good some not. But to this day I've never met a woman like her, and I doubt I ever will. I would have had her be my partner in the street, without a doubt, but she worked alone.
But that was a long time ago, and I don't know if she's even training anymore. We lost contact over the years, and now she probably wouldn't remember me. But if your Sensei is my Sensei, tell her Ted said "hello."
Although women and children often seem to lack the same kind of power that men generate (don't flame me!), technically they can be very proficient in sparring. I never hold back when sparring them, because that would diminish their training and mine, but I do utilize as much as control as possible. Meaning, I will hit them, but with less force than I would a male counterpart. This is not meant as an insult, but merely that a 200 pound man seems to absorb a side kick better than a 120 woman. But of course, these aren't absolutes, and it definitely depends on the woman and the man. peace
tkdcanada
02-17-2005, 16:56
Ted,
Please remember to sign your full first and last name at every post as per the rules you agreed to when you registered. Welcome to Budoseek!
Akuma,
You do have a point and no one would have any reason to flame you, it's reality. I think that when you are much larger than your opponent (in a training situation where you aren't trying to flatten the other person but just make it challenging) that it is a good idea to use good judgement such as maybe using a little less force with some (but also realize which women can take it). When you get to know your training partners, you learn who can take what. In other situations it doesn't matter because you are either in competition where you are pretty evenly matched, or you are in a real fight where you WANT to flatten the other person.
XP
Im a girl~
And if i were a man i would simply do my best~!
#1-so the girl will learn frm u
#2-so you prove to urself that *uhhh* u beat that girl (???)
#3-you are an impression *claps*
#4-uhh... an opponent is still an opponent, yeah
>>>If the girl says "That man is going against a woman! how dare he..."
Then that girl will never be a good fighter
Because if a she thinks is "The boys will give me way~"
Well, she'l never be the best, and she wil never bring honour to herself~!!!
I think one of the things to think about is what style of martial arts you are sparring in. For example, in TKD no one actually goes full force unless it's in a competition(at least not at my school), or if you know the person really well, so it's always the same, with everyone. Now in Judo, I think I would crush a lot of the girls(and guys) at the place where I go if I went full force on holds likeI do with the guy I spar with(5'10", 240lbs, been in Judo for 6 years). But then there's the other side of things, I probly wouldn't be half as good at this point if the guy that I spar with in Judo wasn't putting up more and more struggle everytime I sparred him. I guess that it's just control.
rockatear
10-28-2005, 03:21
Each person I sparr and fight is assessed individually regardless of gender. However, not regardless of rank unless they're upper belts and then it doesn't matter. Everybody's got weaknessess and everybody thinks differently when sparring. If they're bigger than my wits have got to be better and my legs are going to do be doing a lot of work. Does weight and size matter-gender or othewise...well yeah. Funny tonight we were sparring without any gear and doing some drills. My partner was a female black belt and in the drill I forgot to protect my face...so yeah I got knuckled in the left bottom eye. But it didn't happen again that night.
Size, weight and gender count, but I can't let any of them stop me just because they may be taller, heavier or male...an artist is an artist and frankly, if all else fails, I say run...run as fast as you can and don't look back ;) .
iron claw
10-28-2005, 08:04
I think it would be disrespectful to hold back against anyone, however i would be quite apprehensive to choke a woman or put on an ankle lock or arm bar on the mat. Similarly i would be apprehensive at striking below the knee or to the thigh because size and strength are nearly all the time on my side. Now i'm not saying that i'm better than any female MA out there, i know that there are probably as many female MA as male MA that could literally hand my *** back to me.
tkdclassicsgeek
11-13-2005, 22:49
I've had problems with this sort of thing: guys who go easy on me just because I'm a girl. This seems to be extremely disrespectful in many ways. I know that many guys could probably beat me, as I might be able to beat some of them, but as long as they use good control, I'd prefer they not hold back that much because I will never improve if they do. So to all the guys out there - use good control of your techniques - but please don't go easy on us!
Adele
When I was teaching TKD we always sparred like this, if you we sparring a lower belt regardless of age or gender it was the higher belts job to drop their technique level down just above the other persons so they were encouraged to chase you. In this way students were always just behind you nipping at your heels. They knew if they trained a little more they would be at the level you were sparring at. Sparring at BB level full on with a yellow belt is generally going to crush their will to learn or even return. There are a few exceptions (I was one of those mule headed students) but generally speaking it’s better to dangle a carrot just out of reach rather than prove it’s on the other side of the universe.
I had a 15yr girl training with me in HKD one day a friend of mine came to train for the night, he was an instructor in another style (I wont mention which one) which has a huge amount of rolling & throwing. Anyway when it came time for throwing practice he partnered up with the 15y old. He grabbed her & she throw his across the room injuring his shoulder (the throw was correct). He jumped up & stated her throw was wrong, I just said NO you landed incorrectly & coming from an instructor I could only conclude the main injury was to his ego.
I believe in teaching not beating to get the lesson across, some people male or female want or need the teaching to be as hard as possible for there own reasons which is fine as long as it’s made as safe as possible in the confines of what it is.
I only wish I had more female students their technical grasp seems to be better & quicker than the average male. I think I learnt why when I was building a house with my ex-wife, males tend to be the builders of the big picture while the women are concerned with all the little details, colours, tiles, taps, switches, etc. They can see all the small things that make the big picture whole (or maybe that’s just me).
The only reason you should hold back when training with someone is that you are very much better than them and if you go full whack all they'll learn is that you're better than them. Sparring should be a time to try out your techniques, improve your speed, learn to apply your blocking/throwing etc. Sex should not be a factor. Your partner's body size, strength, speed and technical level should all be a factor, and all of these are influenced by their sex. But whether or not they're female should matter.
Having said that, just as I wouldn't try to crush someone's testicles, I would try not to strike full-contact on a woman's pelvic/pubic area: there is a risk of causing damage to the reproductive system. And it hurts. Similarly I try not to hit a female partner square in the breasts.
I only wish I had more female students their technical grasp seems to be better & quicker than the average male.
Martial artists say this all the time, but I'd argue against it. Initially I do think women use less force and graps the technique better, depending on the martial art. But I think after a few years males tend to get over "You must use strength" mentality, and concentrate on the technique and underlying principles (if they're any good at the martial art). So over time it balances out. Saying 'women are technically better than men' is just as sexist as 'men should hold back when sparring with women'.
Sorry I've double posted here, still learning my way around. :bow:
[I only wish I had more female students their technical grasp seems to be better & quicker than the average male.]
As I also said “Quicker” so we agree, in the long run it all depends in the individual regardless of gender. I also agree that it depends on the style in HKD non strength during learning techniques gives a person a huge head start. But I’ve found & this is only from my merger experience that women just have that important eye for the subtle details that make all the difference. What they do with it from then on is up to them as it is for everyone else.
Oh & by the way I meant no offence, sexist or otherwise one way or the other, I was just offering a little from what I’ve seen first hand.
If you've taken offence to anything I've said, well I'm sorry but its almost impossible to say anything in a large group without being taken to task by someone.
Oh & by the way I meant no offence, sexist or otherwise one way or the other, I was just offering a little from what I’ve seen first hand.
Oh, now you're making me feel all bad!
No offense taken; this is a discussion forum, not an agreement forum.
Having said that...
All of you Stop using "Gender" when you're talking about SEX!
Gender is a grammatical term that, in english but not some other languages, equates with 'he' and 'she'. If you're talking about Male and Female, you're talking about SEX.
Don't believe me? Take it from the Oxford English Dictionary:
Gender (n): Each of the three (or in some languages two) grammatical ‘kinds’, corresponding more or less to distinctions of sex (and absence of sex) in the objects denoted, into which substantives are discriminated according to the nature of the modification they require in words syntactically associated with them.
Sex (n): Either of the two divisions of organic beings distinguished as male and female respectively; the males or the females (of a species, etc., esp. of the human race) viewed collectively.
And those boys at Oxford are never wrong...
And those boys at Oxford are never wrong...
Yah, I'll have to remember that.... :)
Welcome to Budoseek!
And those boys at Oxford are never wrong...
Sorry, I meant "People".
Don't want to engender conflict, but 'gender' comes from the Latin root as 'genre' and 'genus'. It means 'kind' and is used to refer to sex as a noun, not the wonderful verb. :D
Don't want to engender conflict, but 'gender' comes from the Latin root as 'genre' and 'genus'. It means 'kind' and is used to refer to sex as a noun, not the wonderful verb. :D
lol. Guess those Oxford kids don't know everything. :laugh: Actually, word origins have never been my forte - you both sounded most impressive!
Maybe someone can tell me the origin of THREAD DRIFT! :up:
Don't want to engender conflict, but 'gender' comes from the Latin root as 'genre' and 'genus'. It means 'kind' and is used to refer to sex as a noun, not the wonderful verb. :D
You have made an ENEMY OF ME!!! ;)
Thread Drift: "Something that is associated when jailess posts".
Huh. Guess those OED boys really are never wrong...
So, another Scot is kicking my behind. I should be used to THAT by now. :laugh:
If you would wear a dress when we fight that would put the thread back on track, I think.
Oh, sorry, that's a kilt.... :laugh:
DragonMind
11-16-2005, 16:21
All of you Stop using "Gender" when you're talking about SEX!
Gender is a grammatical term that, in english but not some other languages, equates with 'he' and 'she'. If you're talking about Male and Female, you're talking about SEX.
Don't believe me? Take it from the Oxford English Dictionary:
Gender (n): Each of the three (or in some languages two) grammatical ‘kinds’, corresponding more or less to distinctions of sex (and absence of sex) in the objects denoted, into which substantives are discriminated according to the nature of the modification they require in words syntactically associated with them.
Sex (n): Either of the two divisions of organic beings distinguished as male and female respectively; the males or the females (of a species, etc., esp. of the human race) viewed collectively.
And those boys at Oxford are never wrong...
From the OED:
gender
• noun 1 Grammar a class (usually masculine, feminine, common, or neuter) into which nouns and pronouns are placed in some languages. 2 the state of being male or female (with reference to social or cultural differences). 3 the members of one or other sex.
— DERIVATIVES gendered adjective.
— USAGE The words gender and sex both have the sense ‘the state of being male or female’, but they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender tends to refer to cultural or social ones.
— ORIGIN Old French gendre, from Latin genus ‘birth, family, nation’.
Note definitions 2 and 3. Gender is the appropriate term.
Also:
sex
• noun 1 either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions. 2 the fact of belonging to one of these categories. 3 the group of all members of either sex. 4 sexual activity, specifically sexual intercourse.
• verb determine the sex of.
— DERIVATIVES sexer noun.
— ORIGIN Latin sexus.
As you can see from the first three definitions here, the nouns sex and gender are fundamentally synonyms and interchangeable. When standing alone, gender is preferred since it can only be a noun and thus unambiguous. Also, note that sex as a verb by itself does not refer to intercourse (aka The Happy Dance); although it is used as such in colloquial speech.
Far be it from me to disgree with man who quotes Wilde. It is interesting how the meaning of this thread "Going up against a woman" lends itself to the same sort of naughty misunderstanding as "sex" or "Gender". This is a zeugma. Andrew Simonsen, take note. You can use it in your English class.
However, to get this thread back on course, I think J. McCrae (jailess) might quote his countryman:
First, in the Sexes' intermix'd connection,
One sacred Right of Woman is, protection.
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