To Attack,Counter,Or Defend??

[jmd161]

I was wondering there are many different people from many different styles here.

I wanted to find out what philosophy each uses towards fighting.

For instance black tiger's philosophy is to always attack the attack.Meaning we do not sit and try to defend or counter an attack.The moment an attack is launched towards us.We instantly attack that attack by beating their strike to us with an strike to them.usually this is done by not attacking the incomming limbs but an whole different attack that also protects us from their attack.

I know when some styles attack the attack.They go directly at the attacking limbs of the attacker ,but this is not always the case in black tiger.If someone throws an attack at for instance my face.Chances are my attack is going to come over,around,or thru their attack aimed at the same spot of their attack.

This is the reason speed is so important in black tiger.The idea of beating them to the attack is stressed all the time in black tiger.Although we condition our arms to take hard attacks and dish out punishment in return.We rarely use this manner in fighting.

In most cases we will just overtake the opponents attack with ours.In the delivering of our attack we swallow up the persons attack.

So how do most ou you guys/gals styles deal with attacks?

1.Do you defend and then attack?

2.Do you counter attack? Meaning do you avoid the attck then look for an opening?

3.Or do you just do a combonation of 1 & 2 in some shape or form.

4.Does your style share Black Tigers philosophy of attack before they attack?


I'd like to hear what each styles philosophy is on this matter.


jeff:)

[sean_stonehart]

I can't say for sure. I just do what I do. If it means I'm pre-emptive to an attack, then ok. If I backup & defend for a minute, that's good too.

In my studies, I've come across all sorts of different ideologies & techniques. I've boiled it down to my own personal philosophy... "Hit first, Hit hard, Hit often". It doesn't always work that way when I'm class with working the senior students... they always seem to just not worry about what I do & pound on me... :D

[jmd161]

It doesn't always work that way when I'm class with working the senior students... they always seem to just not worry about what I do & pound on me...

Ha Ha yeah tell me about it i know the feeling.:D

The sad thing is i usually pound my sihing ,but then sifu pounds me haha.:p





jeff:)

[sean_stonehart]

Hehehe... oh no... sihing pounds me... Sifu laughs... I pound sidai, Sifu shakes his head & says "Why didn't you do that when.... was kicking your ass?" ... I just shake my head & get back to it... :D

Sifu handles all of us like kids without trying too terribly hard... normally doesn't even break a glisten...

[jmd161]

Not only does it hurt to spar sifu,but it's degrading as well :D lol


Because he seems to know what you are going to do 3 moves before you do.So when you attempt it he just knocks it down before it even gets started.:(


But yeah my sihing used to get the best of me.Now the tables have turned and i really enjoy it haha;)

But it's all in good fun!

The funny thing is he's a teacher at a high school ,and when he goes back to school after a good training class with sifu and i.He looks like he's been beat to near death.He's black & blue from us banging arms and everything else.:p




jeff:)

[rubberband]

The mind should be aggressive... the body should be relaxed... if you see an opening attack... if you don't, bait and counter attack... if not herd your opponent and attack when he is 1/2 way in his movement...

commonly there are four types of fighter:

aggressive: most common, attack oriented toward over powering

counter fighters: will take punishment to get in their power shot or to set up a combination

elusive fighters: have amazing footwork and se

[rubberband]

The mind should be aggressive... the body should be relaxed... if you see an opening attack... if you don't, bait and counter attack... if not herd your opponent and attack when he is 1/2 way in his movement...

commonly there are four types of fighter:

aggressive: most common, attack oriented toward over powering

counter fighters: will take punishment to get in their power shot or to set up a combination

elusive fighters: have amazing footwork and seem to come out of nowhere

cheaters: use tricks and distractions to get a sucessful attack

each can out manuevre the others... so the highest order is to understand all four...

and to understand yourself... this way you will know yourself and know your enemy... take care, steve

[Musubi Dojo]

I always tended to defend/avoid to set up a powerful counter strike/throw/jointlock. (Unless I was pissed off, then It was a blitz type response)

My Wing Chun instructor is trying to break me of that habit. His philosopy is to attack the attack and keep moving right through the opponent. (Chain punches and low kicks) I found it difficult to change my mindset at first but now find the Wing chun 'Barrage' of strikes puts me into a great position for entering throws and joint locks.

Cheers
c

[riku]

Can't really say for sure... I tend to take defending attitude, but occasionally have got feeling 'Oh, what the h*ll I'm waiting, let's get it on..."

I think that emphasizing legal aspect might sometimes over-emphasizing defending techniques and strategies.

With respect,
Riku Ylönen

[wab25]

My first sensei taught me never to punch a puncher, never kick a kicker and never grapple a grappler. They are comfortable there, and probably practice that a lot. We trained to do the opposite of what the other guy wanted to do. If he wanted to kick, then I make him grapple. I would apply the same here. Whatever he does, countering, attacking, avoiding... I will make him change his game. I want him not to be familiar with the way things are happening.

[Jeff Burger]

Attack attack attack...even your defense shoul be have that feel of going after him.

Interecept / Sectors
Sen No Sen / Go No Sen


Jeff

[Dim Wit Mak]

Currently, I am studying two martial arts, kenpo karate, and five animal kung fu. I guess this is a roundabout way of dealing with the question, but the tiger approach (attacking the attack and solving the problem by ripping it up) comes very natually to me. The leopard approach (has tiger elements, but is more sneaky and delves into more options) is the approach I'm most comfortable with. I have to work harder on the crane and snake stuff because they aren't dominant in my personality. Having said that, the harder I work the better I get. The dragon has elements of all the other aproaches and I am going to continue to learn dragon ways for the rest of my life.

I guess what I am trying to get across is that I am most comfortable attacking the attack, with elements of sneakiness and surprise.

Larry Barber

[Jeff Burger]

To build that crane an snake "flavor" try fenicng.

Coming from a kick boxing / karate background I just wanted to smash everything.
The finesse that fencing brought out helped alot....you dont need to smash eye jabs.

Jeff

[Dim Wit Mak]

Jeff: I see your point.

Larry Barber

[Antares33]

In standup I definitely lean toward the aggressive side of the spectrum, I prefer to be on the attack, but grappling on the ground I find myself being much more defensive waiting for my opponent to make a mistake before I counterattack.

[SenseiMayer]

Heh, it all depends on the situation. That is why it is wise to train in a well rounded art or a combination of arts that will give you options. Not every situation needs a kick to the knee or choke someone out. Of course this descission will need to be made in a split second. That takes training and practice. Sometimes after you use force a well rounded art will allow you to lessen or increase the amount of 'pain compliance' to get someone to re-think an attack on you. Personally, I have run the gambit of using a finger lock then releasing and causing no permenant damage to palming a guy in the face breaking his nose. If you can only attack attack or avoid or counter attack then at sometime you will come up short in defense and in liability. Train wisely: Avoid before block, block before lock, lock before stun, stun before damage, damage before kill.

[WolverineGuy]

STRIKE FIRST STRIKE HARD NO MERCY SIR!!!

:D

I just do whatever comes naturally, honestly. I suppose I attack the attack, but I haven't been in a real fight in a LONG time. So who knows how I'd react to that.

[tkdcanada]

This is a problem I just noticed recently with myself. When I'm fighting someone in class that I know is much better than myself, I tend to avoid attacking and concentrate on countering - I'm not afraid, but I guess I just don't want to walk into an attack that's already planned in their head (we are often taught to lure the opponent into an attack, then attack them). So what happens is that we end up spending the whole two minutes sizing each other up and getting very few kicks in. So, I've decided I need to be more agressive in these cases so I can learn to deal with their attacks in a way that works in my favour. It wasn't a conscious decision to not attack in these cases, just something I've noticed recently - too much thinking again. :rolleyes:

[Jeff Burger]

If your always defending that can put you in a bad position.

In sparring / matching I try to shut down the other persons offense...putting them in a defensive mode.

From there I can just attack, draw their counter, fakes / trickery...

Make em pay for any attempts at changing the tide.

Even defensively we emphasize beat efficiency / aggressiveness.
Defensive progression...worst to best...
Get hit
Block
Evade
Block and counter (2 beats)
Evade and counter (2 beats)
Sabaki and or Gunting (constructive or destructive blocking)
Sectoring (simultaneous block or evade and counter)
Intercept

I try to have the mentality of not even letting the other person have a chance to play.
I want the score to be lots for me and zip for them....no matter what sport I play.

Jeff

[tkdcanada]

I like that thinking. I guess I just have to get in there and not get out and keep on them. I tend to stay out of their range, and look for an opportunity to attack. Maybe I should actually get in and stay in and attack from there where they can't get me because I'm too close. (I'm generally shorter than everyone, so being close would be an advantage for me, I think. Any thoughts?

[Jeff Burger]

Dont hide...HUNT.
Dont wait for opportunities make them...but dont be foolish or careless.

JKD attacks
Direct attack
Indirect attack (fakes, progressive indirect, trickery)
Broken rhythm
Attack by drawing
Immobilizations
Attack by combination

There will be times of course where you will have to defend.
Make them as progressive towards your as possible.

Constructive or destructive blocking, sectoring, intercepting

Good evade and hit (kyushu mikiri) is a better version of evade and hit would almost be like constructive blocking / sabaki.
Kyushu mikiri means evading a blow but stay within striking distance.

There could be times when just letting the situation run time is to yuor advantage ( you know help is coming).
But other than that Id say do things that egt the job done...ASAP.

Jeff

[DARKSON]

attack

[Taliesin]

I'm with you on the 'keep in close thing' TKDCanada, because I'm in the 54k, 5'4" category.
When sparring with the big lads in the Dojo, I tend to be quite aggressive because I'm able to really strike with power without actually inflicting injury on them...(think little boney knuckles not much muscle!). When I fight other girls, I tend to soften down and practice more defensive techniques and footwork. This works for me. I have fought in a Knockdown Competition which is really aggressive and loved it!

P.S. this is my first ever post! :D

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Taliesin
P.S. this is my first ever post! :D


Welcome aboard!:D



Hope it's the first of alot more post?




jeff:)

[tkdcanada]

Welcome Lucy. We need more women here. :D

[Jeff Burger]

Welcome aboard Lucy.


"We need more women here"

Yup

And she is a Kyokushinkai player as well (thats good in my book anyway).

Jeff

[Taliesin]

I'm very chuffed at the outstanding welcome.

Thankyou. :toast:

[Taliesin]

Back to the original thread though... my Sensei always said if you can find a peaceful solution use it, if you can't, then go in hard, fast and strong and don't give them the chance to even think about it! :


Do you feel lucky punk?:bandit:

[jakmak52]

You know most of us can "smell/sense" an attack coming on, and I surely like to avoid violence altogether except when the threat is to myself or a family member, but most places I hang out these days aren't breeding grounds for "jumpers". I try to be defensive in sticky situations. I like to pick my own battles as well. ;)

[Jeff C.]

Mr. Clark,

Good question. Are you referring to controlled sparring/tournament fighting, or self-defense, or combat?

This is a very complicated topic, and your answer to the above will greatly focus the discussion. Each choice above may denote a different response to your question.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[franzen]

I'm currently taking kung fu jong keun system and we learn to defend and attack at the same time. If your always defending and attacking your doing nothing wrong. It's very difficult to explain how this system works it needs to be shown. Lets say a punch is comming to my head I will simply use "core movement" which is key to learning this art, and turn to the side not moving my feet but my body while my arm comes up through momentem to block my head and my other arm is tucked tight to my body on the other side and hits the guy around mid section . We use our leg strength to get power in our hits. We never go force against force because theres always somebody bigger and stronger than you. Our system fights very close combat about one elbow length apart.

[franzen]

Your exactly correct in my opinion. Fighting close minimizes a lot of what your opponent can use for an attack such as kicks. If your opponent decides to back up to break the distance just move with him and don't let him get that break. Just keep pounding him at close range and don't let up untill hese on the ground. In the system of kung fu I use we don't fight strait on we pivot to the side as we punch and block to avoid the attackers attacks as we continue to drill him.

[redqueen290]

in class, were I know that are no legal obligations, I am usually very aggressive, but on the street, i never like to throw the first strike, but once they come after me I switch back into aggressive and cheater or what i would like to call "an aggresive cheater" lol.

[tkdcanada]

franzen,

You need to post your full first and last name at every post. You agreed to these rules when you registered. Fix it in your user CP to not have to repeat it every time.

[AntMan]

Well like what my sensai jeff taught me if you cant avoid the fight its best to attack first.

[nickjman]

"Know yourself and know your enemy." - Sun Tzu

Be flexible in your fighting, take notice of what your opponent's weaknesses are, and find any way you can to use your strengths to exploit them.

Nick Jamison

[cajunfu]

I just try to stay relaxed, feel them out a bit, then work off of that. I guess I don't have a particular "style", unless it would be maybe sneaky. Ok...I'm a dirty fighter, and I like the up close and personal fighting. But then, I AM old, female, and on the small side.... :up:

[Tribalweapon]

I usually find myself defending more until I get hit one good time. After that I am more aggressive. I have tried going all out but I usually get more than I give so I just focus on what works best for me.

[47martialMan]

I believe it depends on the situation and the opponent per.

[Dennis Monk]

47martialMan, please read the mods replies to your other posts.

[Ronin81]

Attack attack attack...even your defense shoul be have that feel of going after him.

Interecept / Sectors
Sen No Sen / Go No Sen


Jeff

To go along something of these lines (Sen, Sen no Sen, Go no Sen, Sen Sen no Sen), I would like to add that your mind should always "be attacking", no matter what. In this sense, when you back up, you do not do so because you're defending, mainly baiting. When you move in, you do not do so because you are agressive - that is a given, but rather because you're expunging his openings.

I tend (for better or worse) to be a counter fighter, therefore by definition I'm more of a defender. However, I've found that it is more demoralizing (and if you get the chance to think about it before you're finished, scary), to be counterattacked, or have your attacked demandingly stifled, than to land an agressive attack. This not only breaks the attack, but also the psyche.

Now, that being said, by admiting my counter-fighting demeanor openly shows I need more practice in what I'm talking about here. Mainly that, whether passive or agressive (or apathic, anyone ever try that one on?), your mind is always on the agressive side. This should not be a huge cognitive process (because concentrating about not concentrating is still concentrating), but rather a willingness to, at least mentally, always be the agressor.

What does everyone else think?

[Bad Karma]

A fighter's heart/spirit (indomitability) is normally agreed upon as unteachable. The person either has it or he doesn't. Being aggressive or passive doesn't reflect anything other than your nature and situational comfort zone. These two things, your nature and comfort zone, can be altered, but the "will" to fight/survive cannot (general concensus).

Every action you give or receive can be considered an attack. Question and rationalize the backing away/avoidance as an attacking action?! Is this to make you feel better or is there truth behind the words? There are so many different levels to consider it can make your head spin.

I would also disagree that being close means less to worry about. I would think the more distance the less you have to worry about because only certain things can reach you? Being close does not limit the possibility of being effectively kicked, either. Never been stamped or had back of knees raked with the heel, you say? :eek:

47martialMan, you need FULL NAME in every post. Edit your "UserCP" signature block by placing your full name in it and then check the box to always sign. This way you don't have to remember to do it and stay off the "S-list." ;)

Peace

[Spartan]

Simultaneous counter AND attack at the same time. Hit hard. Hit fast. Land the effective strike first.

[lightninrod]

To go along something of these lines (Sen, Sen no Sen, Go no Sen, Sen Sen no Sen), I would like to add that your mind should always "be attacking", no matter what. In this sense, when you back up, you do not do so because you're defending, mainly baiting. When you move in, you do not do so because you are agressive - that is a given, but rather because you're expunging his openings.

I tend (for better or worse) to be a counter fighter, therefore by definition I'm more of a defender. However, I've found that it is more demoralizing (and if you get the chance to think about it before you're finished, scary), to be counterattacked, or have your attacked demandingly stifled, than to land an agressive attack. This not only breaks the attack, but also the psyche.


I definitely agree with most of this - except the part about the mind always attacking. To me the mind should be empty. Anything else can only interfere with the flow of things. As for the rest of it, it is definitely true that having one's attack completely thrown off track by a blending counter attack throws most people for a mental loop. By their perception, nothing is as it was supposed to be, and their mind stops. I've been on both the giving and recieving ends of this. I dislike the categorization of attack and defense, though, when speaking of defending against an attack. It's all defense, even if it's pre-emptive. For me it's all about blending in. If you just "go with the flow", then attack and defense become meaningless.

Justin Mears

[GreenTiger]

It Generally takes much more focus to be able to block a spree of attacks that are comming your way. If u have to... Attack, Attack hard and fast before they understand what's going on. If they feel the hit, It can have a serious effect on they're Mind and how they work. Though understand i am not disreguarding control. Your mind should be clean and empty, to effectively move with your opponent. To couter, block, attack everything comes with the perception of your opponent. Keep your mind clear but when u see the opportunity, Put your heart into your attacks and you will not fail. If they open tear them open, if they do not open make sure they do.

[Peter Rehse]

I definitely agree with most of this - except the part about the mind always attacking. To me the mind should be empty. Anything else can only interfere with the flow of things. As for the rest of it, it is definitely true that having one's attack completely thrown off track by a blending counter attack throws most people for a mental loop. By their perception, nothing is as it was supposed to be, and their mind stops. I've been on both the giving and recieving ends of this. I dislike the categorization of attack and defense, though, when speaking of defending against an attack. It's all defense, even if it's pre-emptive. For me it's all about blending in. If you just "go with the flow", then attack and defense become meaningless.

The mind always attacking is straight out of the Life Giving Sword (Yagu) and is quite an attractive concept.

Mushin is often misunderstood as literaly empty mind but again if you read the Life Giving Sword it is more clearly explained as the non-lingering mind. In other words a lack of preconceptions about what will happen and what you will do. You mention "their mind stops" which means you have read this or similar texts - the concept is not particular to the Yagu school. I think another way of examining the phrase as "mind always attacking" is to use the word engaged or actively seeking opprotunity. The opposite puts the initiative (sen) in the other court putting you at a disadvantage and limiting yourself to go no sen timing.

In the end I basically agree - attack and defense are the same.

[kwan kune]

it depends if my opponent is a kicker i usually evade
a puncher i defend. a grapler you have to take out quick with strikes

[Peter Rehse]

Just to be contrary.

For a kicker I prefer to close distance as quick as possible and quick strikes are not going to stop a grappler.

[kwan kune]

i'm a striker not a grapler so i have to take em' out as fast as i can before they get me to the ground which is the opposite of with a kicker were i can wear them down by evasion. they can't kick forever

[lightninrod]

The mind always attacking is straight out of the Life Giving Sword (Yagu) and is quite an attractive concept.

Mushin is often misunderstood as literaly empty mind but again if you read the Life Giving Sword it is more clearly explained as the non-lingering mind. In other words a lack of preconceptions about what will happen and what you will do. You mention "their mind stops" which means you have read this or similar texts - the concept is not particular to the Yagu school. I think another way of examining the phrase as "mind always attacking" is to use the word engaged or actively seeking opprotunity. The opposite puts the initiative (sen) in the other court putting you at a disadvantage and limiting yourself to go no sen timing.

In the end I basically agree - attack and defense are the same.

Put that way, I agree with it 100%. When I saw the phrase "mind always attacking", I interpreted it as if the mind was trying to "push the issue" so to speak, or in other words, not do what's appropriate to the situation. (Imagine feeling the need to move a certain way, but having your mind insist on aggressively attacking.)
I've always liked the concept of being a mirror. I don't really remember where I got this concept from, but I've worked on it alot, and it seems that when I just empty my mind and wait, with awareness, I more often than not manage to decisively finish things without alot of effort on my part. Sometimes I happen to pre-empt the other person just as they begin to attack, other times I just somehow "slip" right into what they're doing in such a way that it completely unbalances them. I'm not really looking for an opening or opportunity, but I seem to find it nonetheless. Not having had much in the way of "formal" training, I'm not real familiar with the "sen no sen" and "go no sen" terminology. Maybe you can explain a little about how it relates to the experiences I describe above? I'm always willing to learn something new.


Justin Mears

[Peter Rehse]

Sen = Initiative

Go no sen or Ato no sen = Reactive timing (someone elses initiative)

Sen no Sen = Siezing the initiative. Basically picking up the subtle or not so subtle clues that the person is about to attack and beating him to the punch. Movement of the hand, sucking in the breath, blinking of an eye, etc.

Sen sen no sen - where you ability to pick up on the clues is so finely tuned it looks like you are reading their mind.

[Ryunosuke]

It's all situational. If it's a real threatining situation I would fight with Ninjutsu principles in my mind. I would I would fight very defensive and try to lure my opponent in then try to inconpacitate them by knocking them out or breaking bones. If was an even fight I would probably stand toe to toe with the enemy, be really agressive and pound them out.

[ninjandrew]

I like most people tend to simply do what comes naturally. But I also tend to be on the defense alot. Between offense and defense, apparently offense is preferred by most people (not just considering the poll). But if I am doing one of the two, it is almost exclusively defense. Ive always had luck using the old viking tactic (though it was originally done with a sword) of stepping back just as the opponent launches an attack, allowing me the opportunity to either counter, throw of the opponents timing and/or balance, or use their own weight against them. I believe the `step back` is also used in Aikido alot. Many attacks can be launched from after a `step back`, because the opponent must now finish his attack and bring it back. It allows for something like a `long range counter` I suppose.
Move last, connect first.

[DARKSON]

attack, counter, defend. In that order. In Muay Thai we block kicks with shins so these blocks can be attack/attacks also. Also stop hits with front kicks and knees.

[Mikey Triangles]

It depends completely on the situation for me, but I've been taught not to hit first.

Here's a good example of 'Hit hard, hit first': http://www.m90.org/gallery/video/pimp%20beaten%20by%20karate%20master0-1953.wmv

[Dennis Monk]

I have always been taught, not to get hit first.

[Mikey Triangles]

I have always been taught, not to get hit first.

Same here, but that doesn't nessacerily mean you have to hit them ;)

http://www.m90.org/gallery/video/pimp%20beaten%20by%20karate%20master0-1953.wmv

[Dennis Monk]

No, there is always a good argument for a swift takedown to back mount and a rear naked chocke.

[Mikey Triangles]

No, there is always a good argument for a swift takedown to back mount and a rear naked chocke.


:D That's what I'm talkin about!



:bow:

[TigerCrane]

I prefer they Choy Lay Fut philosophy, attack and drive. Each strike is a block and each block is a strike. That and in the stepping within the techniques you always grab ground and drive your opponent backwards. Unless its your Sifu then he is the one who is grabbing all the ground :laugh:

[ninjandrew]

What usually happens when both people try that technique??

[TigerCrane]

Typically, as it happens in class, someone gets stopped and eventually is forced backwards or to the ground. It all depends, there are a lot of variables involved.

[topgun3442]

"One style or one way will never be the answer, because at any given time a certain style maybe useful in a certain situation". Danny Insanto

[Peter Rehse]

I disagree - a particular style should cover attack and defense, counter and counter counter. What you could say is a style will reflect a prefered positioning which goes to say the student must find the style which suits his personality.

[DragonWolf]

A. Fighting is stupid, so I avoid fights with words or running away.
B. If I am attacked, I usaully go for a counter since I won't fight unless I am attacked. I like Knife hand to the neck and run. Any more than that and you could go to jail. If that isn't an option I don't know what I'd do since I haven't been in a fight since I was 17 and even then, it was a real fight.
C. In Sparring, I am quite aggressive. I like to throw simple repetitive kicks and then all the sudden completely switch kicks and even stances. It throws people off like mad. I make all my kicks look the same as my leg comes up so they have no idea which way it will go.

As for the "no mercy" comments and the Attack! Attack! and more Attack! comments. Is it really worth the risk of taking someones life? Sure you saved your butt or whatever but now you have to live with the fact you seriously disabled someone or worse. When is too much, too much?

Also, never get mad while you fight or sparr. People let their emotions go and leave themselves open all over the place, even experienced fighters.

[DragonWolf]

BTW. Jack Mak you seem to hit the nail on the head quite often in my eye. :bow: You seem to have your priorities in order.

[Iron Dove]

depends on the situation

[Jared Sutton]

Situation really does make a difference. If I am in the dojang, I will be rather aggressive because in the dojang, everyone has learned the same basic approaches and it is a question of who is more confident in making the first attack.

If I am in a public place I tend to let my opponent be the aggressor so I will have less responsibility in contributing to the fight and damages. Most of the time if I'm in a scuffle with a non-martial artist, I will let them attack in whatever way, I'll let them get close in and then put them on the ground(since most of the time the regular person will try fight you with his body; spear, lift you up against the wall).

If it is a martial artist in an actual conflict(which has never happened), I think I would let him have first attack, see what he starts out with, and if he kicks I will play counter, if he strikes I will aggress with kicks. That is just my perspective. I think the first move can say what the opponent has the most confidence in.

I hate when the kids at my dojang try to kick at the same time. :mad: "They're kicking, I should to!" Not denouncing shin blocks though, they're really effective if you got the shins.

[ilbumy]

Counter attack.

Always start off the attack. Very aggresively with a hopping front leg side kick. (Kinda like what Bruce Lee did, but not cause he did it.) I feel my legs are real naturals at these probably cause of all the pushing from Breaststroke back when I was young.

But after a couple swings I go pure counter attack. Usually blocking a kick then combination punches. Countering a kick with a kick. Evading punches into a kick or punch. Rest of my sparring fights end up this way.

[gwmma]

i say counter attack and footwork, two most important things.

at ym taekwondo school most people are VERY agressive which makes it easier for me to counter them, after sparring with the same people as we went up the belts i became a counter attacker who uses footwork to evade their strike then counter with 2 kicks, for every kick of theirs you do two of your own. in my expierence ive noticed that counter attackers including myself usually win fights if they are against a aggressive fighter, they seem more relaxed and can look at the situation and think what they need to do instead of always thinking of attacking like a aggressive fighter would.


im not saying aggressive fighters suck im just saying that in my experience ive just noticed that counter attackers seem to have a higher success rate :)

[Jason T Gatts]

I prefer the counterattack (simultaneous to the attack if possible) because every opponent creates an opening whenever they attack (the groin or standing leg when kicking, the face when punching low, the solar plexus when punching high, etc.) I think that it is safer to sit back, in a protected position (limiting access to your vital points) and wait for you opponent to provide you with a target.

[Mikael151]

If your opponent decides to back up to break the distance just move with him and don't let him get that break.
Exactly. Your opponent will have a more difficult time trying to fight on his heels.

[FunSPE]

I have always been a firm believe that a good offense is a higly effective form of defense.

FunSPE

[iron claw]

It depends entirely on the situation.
Whilst sparring or competition i would definately be offensive all the way and attack full on.
In confrontation i will always try to avoid fighting with words and try to calm the situation down. if fighting is unavoidable i will be full on defensive, block or evade as much as i can and then go for a finger lock or just grab him by the nose as hard as i can because striking may put me legally in the wrong
If attacked,(mugged,robbed etc.) well i'll do the only thing i can and that is take their damn head off.

[TroyRoget]

In the dojo I tend to counterattack unless the person I'm fighting is using the same strategy, in which case I usually feint and then attack. I very rarely attack head-on.

In a fight where there is someone to take care of things (bouncer, campus security) I would just defend until I can get a joint lock and hold my opponent until the reinforcements arrive.

In a fight on the street, I would run, but if that's not an option I would counterattack, unless there are weapons invovled. If it's a gun I would attack with intent to disarm and disable, if it's a knife or blunt weapon, I would wait for their attack and go for a disarm.

In a mugging I would generally just give them what they want and hope they go away. If one of my loved ones is involved, though, I would attack to be sure that any use of the weapon is focused on me and not the other person.

[sifulawson]

Jeet kune do we focus alot on intercepting an attack on a have beat which means alot of our tecnique are performed in the middle of our opponents attack.Put in my philosphy is that exsplosen the is best way what i mean by that is when you begin and engagement you need to exsploied with a fury of tecnigues to get in close and trwo your opponents timmeing off and alot of people are not good close in or in a grappling situation so you need to learn to flow if you are fighting or spare an opponent with equal or more skill than you. it turns in to a timeing thing more than a attack or a counterattack you have to learn eachs others timeing and learn each others weakness so you feel each other out in a fight until you have a good opening or can break the timeing you have devloped with the opponent in the beginging of the fight and then you can attack or intercept your opponent.

[poetic misjustice]

i would have to say counter attack, wado-ryu and chut sik are very almost passive in philosophy, i mean look at the name wado-ryu way of peace, we try not to fight but if it is neccasary to defend ourselves then we fight, also chut sik has some devastating counter attacks

[STORMCROW34]

It really depends on the situation as some here have previously stated.

From a self defense perspective I believe that most situations will have the uke attacking me with commited force. So I believe directing them into something nasty is a good idea. "When they come, welcome them. When they go, send them on their way." So I guess evade and counter would be my natural self defense reaction.

When I was boxing, I liked to put a lot of pressure on my opponent with jabs and double jabs to keep them off-rythm and desperate to do "something" positive to score. That desperation could lead to an off-rythm reaction that was sometimes easy to anticipate, which in turn created openings. So I guess from a dueling/sparring perspective I would have to say that being in a state of reaction is a bad idea.

I think the reason for the difference in philosophies lies mainly in the ramifications of law enforcement possibly being involved in a real situation. When you have a family to take care of, I don't believe a pre-emptive barrage of strikes makes a whole lot of sense. Unless of course it is a life threatening situation or my family is somehow at risk.

[Rich]

If it's in a self-defence situation and I'm being attacked I turn his attack against him. Being a judoka that means: -

1/ If he's attacking from my front with a punch - in one motion block & grab the arm and turn in for seoi-nage (shoulder throw) using his forward momentum to throw him.
2/ If he's attacking from my front with a kick - block & grab the leg and do O-uchi gari (major inner reap/foot sweep)
3/ Attack from the side with a punch - block & grab the arm and do deashi-barai (advanced foot sweep)
4/ Attack from the side with a kick - depending on the kick and angle, grab the leg and some form of ashi-waza (foot sweep)
5/ Attack from the rear attacking my neck - ippon seoinage (one armed shoulder throw)
6/ Attack from the rear kick or punch - I won't see it coming so if I'm still conscious (now mightily p!$$#d off) get my hands on the b@$!@&d and do kata guruma

The point is, if attacked, I just want to get my hands on him and then it's all over. :D I'm not worried about blocking, counterattacking or dancing around. With a grip, I throw him then finish it on the ground with a strangle (my favourite), choke (nasty) or an armlock (if I want to make him pay) :up:

Richard

[TroyRoget]

The point is, if attacked, I just want to get my hands on him and then it's all over. :D I'm not worried about blocking, counterattacking or dancing around. With a grip, I throw him then finish it on the ground with a strangle (my favourite), choke (nasty) or an armlock (if I want to make him pay) :up:

Richard

My concern with this is, what if he has a weapon? Taking a knife in the stomach to pull off a throw doesn't sound like a good strategy to me. And if you aren't used to taking punches, a punch from a big guy is probably just as likely to end the fight.

Basically, the "if I'm still conscious" phrase in your #6 is what worries me, though I would expand that to "if I'm still able to fight", since it's quite possible to be conscious and unable to fight.

[Rich]

My concern with this is, what if he has a weapon? Taking a knife in the stomach to pull off a throw doesn't sound like a good strategy to me. .

That's a good point. Your best bet is to bug out fast, however if you can't run, you can throw a guy who attacks with a knife. Depending on the direction and angle of the attack you can throw with O soto gari (to his rear), seoinage (to his front) or deashi barai (to his side). You then have to go into an armlock to get the knife. Alternatively, you could not go for the throw but instead go straight after the knife arm and go for a standing armlock/wrist break.


And if you aren't used to taking punches, a punch from a big guy is probably just as likely to end the fight.

After many years of judo I'm pretty sure I can take a punch. Being thrown hard over and over, sometimes landing head or even face first has seen to that. I've got the permanent lumps and bumps to prove it! :laugh: But again, a good point. If someone can't take a punch, they're in trouble. Then again, they should be running at the first sign of trouble anyway if they have no self-defence ability.


Basically, the "if I'm still conscious" phrase in your #6 is what worries me, though I would expand that to "if I'm still able to fight", since it's quite possible to be conscious and unable to fight.

That was me being realistic. If someone attacks from behind me I can't see them. I was acknowledging the fact that a surprise attack means they get the first shot in. You could be Mike Tyson but if a bloke steps up behind you and gives you the good news with a tyre iron you're going down. So, as I said, if you're still conscious, you react.

Richard

[SportKarate]

It really depends in the situation. Where you are, who the person is, how big the attacker is, is the attack a surprise, etc. So many variables...but that's why we train, to act instinctively.

[Thai boxing badger]

I chose attack, not because i like starting fights but if i fell threatend id prefer to act first and getting the jump on my opponont. Plus thats bassically what Muay Thai has taught me. get in first or your more likely to give the other person chance to think up a plan also your more likely to have someones shin wrapped arcross your neck.

[IronGong]

personally, I prefer the way of no fighting... they say the greatest samurai is the one who's sword rusts in the scabbard.(I think that's the way it goes, anyway)
but if that's not an option, I prefer to flow. Sometimes attack, sometimes counterattack, sometimes defend. It depends on what's most available.

[Jeff Burger]

Sword maintainance was pretty important to a samurai.


Jeff

[IronGong]

Sword maintainance was pretty important to a samurai.


Jeff

It's a metaphor...

[Oelier]

In class, I mix it up. Some times I get aggressive, sometimes I counter attack. My favorite technique (at least to start off with) is play the waiting game. I have had sparring rounds where no punches/kicks were thrown, yet the other person was panting because he kept circling me trying to find openings. Usually what happens is frustration sets in and the other person attacks wildly.

In terms of animals, my primary fighting style is snake and my secondary is tiger. Usually this means I wait and counterstrike hard and fast. Aggressive counterstriker?