Realsim in Self Defence

[Jeff Butterworth]

I am a black-belt Taekwondo instructor who also trains in jiu-jitsu.

I am hoping that fellow BudoSeek members can give me some suggestions on how to improve the realsim of the self defence training I teach to the teen and pre-teen Taekwondo classes.

Although the students normally take the various self defence situation to their logical conclusion (finishing strike, lockup, run, etc), I feel the beginning of the situations are too artificial. Normally the scenario begins when the attacker, who is facing the defender, initiates physical contact.

I would like to provide the students with additional tools to de-escalate the situation (when appropriate) and expose them to a wider range of scenarios (attacker lunging at them, verbal confrontation that is escalting, etc).

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts, insights, or suggestions that fellow BudoSeek members may have as to how they incorporate realism into self defence training.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Jeff Buterworth

[Mandeigh Wells]

Jeff...this has been discussed before and I think we really thrashed out some difficulties with this. I think one of the major problems was the fact that it starts form such an artificial situation ie a class environment. Let me see if I can find the thread and get back to you.

Mandeigh

[Mandeigh Wells]

click here for a thread (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4712&highlight=training+realistically) this was one of them but not the main one I was thinking of.....I'll keep looking

Mandeigh

[Jeff Butterworth]

Mandeigh,

Thankyou for your prompt reply.

I completely agree with the philosophy of the posts in your enclosed thread, however I am more interested in the "specifics" of how other schools/clubs achieve the realism in their self defence training, while balancing off against the risk of injury.

In the classes that I teach, only 5-10 mins of every other class or so is dedicated to actually practicing self defence techniques such as escapes from chokes, collar grabs, headlocks, etc. The rest of the time is spent practising kicking, punching, forms etc, which although form the basis for self defence, are not specifically parcticed in the in the context of self defense.

Even in the Jui-jitsu club where I train we focus mostly on the techniques themselves and and not on how to deal with the situation before it actually turns physical.

Therefore, what I am really wondering is (specifically) how do other schools/clubs incorporate the realism of the self defence training into their classes and/or what has worked well and what has not.



Jeff Butterworth

[Sochin]

You will have to get into scenario practice.

Your whole student body will have to learn how to be a mutant bad guy, how 'fights' develope and proceed. In the context of this, set up practice for certain difficlulties...dealing with the shoot, dealing with two guys etc.

Everyone has to learn how to be an actor so they can give realistic stress to the 'victim'. Everyone also has to learn to be an actor so they can give back a realistic response to the strike from the 'victim'...nothing looks dumber than uke doing full body troque punches to tori's chin, compleat with ferocious kiai, and tori just stands there looking off into the sunset.

One of the best set of drills along these line that helped me along were from Richard Dimitri, I believe, tape 18 called Functional Combative Drill training. (Find him at http://senshido.savi.ca/). I'm sure others have good stuff too.

[JujitsuFreak]

While I agree with the above, my school will often have 'real scenario practice'.

Assailant with a knife will have a comment or casual conversation to draw the defender in... ie: 'Hey pal, Im looking around for a good place to jog... you look like you're in shape, know of any?' 'excuse me my friend, may I ask you what time it is?' then immediately attack. I find situations like these help prepare us for the casual talk amongst would-be attackers and defenders etc.

We get to points such as the attacker starts to escalate his verbal assault.. ie, 'hey dude, how are ya?' (defender):'ok pal, just passin through the bar' (attacker):'i see, hey-were you checkin out my woman?' (and then from there escalating as you wish)

We also get to points where the attacker is yelling and swearing trying to disturb the defender etc.. I find very useful because even in class Ive been known to get nervous and screw up :). Last week I took a scenario too seriously.. 'hey bud, Im trying to find Dunkin Donuts, know where it is?' (i knew what was coming so I hesitated and freaked) 'nah bro, sorry can't(then attack)help ya' ended up falling on my face and getting 'stabbed'. But it makes ya realize the reality of what could've taken place.

[WIGGY]

If you are finding a confilct between oriental forms and real violence{martial
/miltary]fighting forms I sugest you look at more bujitsu or equevilent arts
for self defence purposes its no secret that those of us in more traditional
arts if thats a term that makes sense may not be to keen on tkd but
I have never found a conflict between the dojo and the street because
we dont really have to learn techs stances etc but just how to move like
a fighter and it has saved my arse on many an bad night but I have never
roleplayed .learning not to freeze on the spot just comes from experience
no matter how good we are in the dojo realistic training for violence comes
from experiencing real violence but it is not the warriors way to put them
selfs in the way of violence so the whole concept get very cloudy for us
who train i hope you can just train in your arts for the wonderfull things
they are but watch out for that tkd arthritis

I live in de shadows I hide in de dark
jim bujuinkan budo taijitsu

[StanLee]

Try www.nononsenseselfdefence.com

I have also been recommended the book "the gift of fear" by Gavin de Becker.

Haven't finished reading it yet but quite good so far.

Wiggy, I see you are from south of the river. You should understand the problems we have (similar to rest of the world I guess) in terms of street attacks etc.

JujitsuFreak, the "have you got the time" line has been used on me twice. The first time I was drunk and coming home late and got clocked around my face, but not before I stuck back at the same time. The attackers prompty left.

The second time, the guy put his hand on my shoulder, I pushed it away and he kindly invited me round the corner to show me his knife. I declined. Should have had my shinken with me and shown him my "knife" :laugh: .

These days, when the person asking for the time looks dodgy, I get ready.

But at the end of the day, situations like these can be avoided. We all just better situational and surrounding awareness.

[riku]

Wiggy-
remember that forum rules demand everyone to sign all posts with real, full name (first and last) or have nic that includes full name.

Riku Ylönen

[jm_460]

Hello everyone,

It's good to hear that you're adding conflict rehearsals to your training. A lot of people have given you some good suggestions, such as someone playing the role of a transient asking for money, and all of a sudden, between your sentences, the transient makes his move and starts attacking you to rob you.
I have personally trained with Jim Wagner in his reality-based system(He writes for Black Belt Mag under HIGH RISK).

As a Security Officer, I have been in numerous tense situations, and in 2 fights while on the job(Not to brag or anything, but I'm gonna make a point here, I promise). When we simulated realistic scenarios, I remember feeling the same way I did when I encounted those tense moments, and fights. Now, when we did realistic scenarios, not only did I simply fight off the attacker and run, but we simulated calling the police. We also simulated scenarios under low light conditions because a lot of conflicts occur under these conditions. Mr. Wagner has all his windows covered up, and he has his entire class painted in black, so turning off the lights really adds more realism to the scenario. Sometimes he'll attach a small flashlight or two to the ceiling because it gives it that dark "street", "subway" or "alley" look...and really does look like it.

You say you're training a class of teens and pre-teens. You can also simulate situations that they're most likely to encounter. For example, I myself am a 20yr old male, and I'm less likely to be bullied, or kidnapped(you never know, but the chances are minimal). I am more likely to encounter a robbery, a conflict between another guy just because he simply thought I was looking at his girl, etc. However, a teen or a pre-teen is more likely to encounter those bully and kidnapping type of situations. You could get someone to act as a kidnapper, and simulate different types of scenarios. There are times when kidnappers just want to get out fast and unseen, so they simply just grab a kid and shove them into their vehicle. There are other times when the kidnapper might want to blend in with everybody else, and try to talk the kid into going with him. You get the idea. By using some imagination, you can add some great things to your training. I hope this info is helpful for you. You can email me if you have any other questions

[bifcake]

It's actually a very difficult topic. I don't know that there is such a thing as "realistic training". I think the best you can hope for is to approximate an adrenaline rush, put your trainees under stress and fear. Even combat training isn't all that realistic. The police rookies really get their experience on the job, not in a training room. There is a big difference between troops that have seen combat and those who have only trained for it.

I don't mean to suggest that there's nothing you can do to make your training more effective, but I think you have to drill it into your students that as good as this simulation may be, it's just a simulation and unless and until they get into an actual altercation, they really don't know what it's like.

There are other things that you can't really recreate in a dojo like terrain, snow, stairs, cars, curbs, rain, heat, smell, heavy coats, heavy shoes, etc. All of these things play a vital role. There too many variables to be able to train effectively for all of them. I think the best you can do is induce stress and hope that techniques your students have learned will take over.

[Jeff Burger]

Its very important to realize we all train in an artificial environment.

A style is not a street fight, sparring is not a street fight......
We can only get as close as we can get and try to realize the differences, and do the best we can to get ready for them.

Jeff