Shorinji Kempo videos wanted

[shorinjikenshi]

Hello everyone. I am in Canada, and I would like to purchase the following Shorinji Kempo videos (used, copy, or new ; Japanese or English; VHS or DVD):

i) 5353 (Video) Shorinji Kempo Techniques -3rd Kyu
Curriculum, NTSC (Japanese)

ii) 5352 (Video) Shorinji Kempo Techniques -2nd Kyu
Curriculum, NTSC (Japanese)

iii) 5351 (Video) Shorinji Kempo Techniques -1st Kyu
Curriculum, NTSC (Japanese)

iv) 5354 (Video) Shorinji Kempo Techniques -1st Dan
Curriculum, NTSC (Japanese)

http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp/sale/

v) Shorinji Kempo techniques DVD (Region All, NTSC)
covering 2nd Dan curriculum Released
The 3rd volume of the DVD series, Ichi no Sho,
covering 2nd Dan techniques on 2 DVDs, in
Japanese/English language.

http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp

(please note that due to past injuries, I am no longer affiliated with any branches)

Thank you for any assistance.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Hi Ned

As you know from discussions on other boards, these videos are not available to the general public and can only be obtained through a Branch Master. If you're not training, you won't be able to have the videos. If anyone supplies you with them, they run the risk of serious disciplinary measures being taken by WSKO. It isn't worth the possible consequences and you shouldn't be asking them to do such a thing.

I wish you good luck, and hope your injuries recover enough to rejoin the club scene in due course. You could always share a vicarious membership by tuning into the discussions here and on other boards (as I do). I have not trained since 1988, and although I miss it terribly, I find that some of the discussions can help me to keep he spark alive.

[shorinjikenshi]

Hi there,

I am happy to say that I have already received some positive replies from some people who are willing to sell me their pre-owned videos (or videos given to them by a friend).

On another note, the thought of there being a penalty or discipline by WSKO to a kenshi who sells their own previously purchased videos to another person is absurd and outrageous. Such an action by WSKO would likely lead to a successful lawsuit in the courts seeking damages (perhaps a class-action suit against WSKO if enough "disciplinary action" were to happen).

In order to understand why anyone can legally sell these pre-owned videos, take a look at the following example. One person purchases a Sony Stereo from a members-only store, such as Costco, and resells it to another person by placing an ad in the local paper. Perhaps the stereo is even resold in a garage sale, or at a flea market. This is perfectly legal (provided that taxes are collected where necessary and that the seller does not promote themself as an "authrorized Sony merchant"). Such commercial activity happens all the time and has formed the basis for global commerce for thousands of years, namely trade!

Regarding the "secrecy" of the sk techniques...there is nothing secret about them. They are detailed in many Japanese-language & Spanish-language books that can be found at most bookstores. Similarly, translations of the original two English books by Doshin So can still be readily purchased (I even own them), although the English versions are now rare. While the combinations and sequences of some of the techniques are unique to some degree to sk, the principles and foundations can be found across other martial arts. for both the philosophies and techniques. Doshin So did do a splendid job with putting it all together in a concise manner.

On a final note, I want to clarify that the purposes for wanting to obtain these videos are purely educational. So, if anyone wants to sell these videos to me (see beginning of thread), let me know!

Take care,
Ned Soo

[Kimpatsu]

Ned, how long were you a Shorinji Kenshi? You certainly never internalised the philosophy. WSKO is perfectly within their rights to restrict the sale and resale of WSKO videos and books, which is why, for example, the Kyohan is clearly marked "Not for resale" (Hibaihin). From your posts here and on e-budo, (www.e-budo.com) I get the impression you're pissed off that Hombu doesn't behave as you want them too: dishing out all manner of videos and books with no regard for the consequences, or the hands into which they might fall. How long did you train? When did you last train? And where did you train?

[sandra2000]

So whereabouts in Canada are you? I am presently taking shorinji kempo classes in NY as I am also attending school there, so I can get some of these tapes from one of the instructors. I would be happy to help you out. How much are you prepared to pay for them above cost?

FYI, there are some great videos available at www.budovideos.com and I see them pop up on eBay every now and then (I can't remember the titles though so they may not be the same ones as you are looking for).

Sandie
:bow:

[riku]

Welcome to Budoseek, Sandra2000, hope you enjoy being here! Please remember that forum rules obliges everyone to sign all posts with real, full name.

Once more, welcome.

Riku Ylönen

[Kimpatsu]

So whereabouts in Canada are you? I am presently taking shorinji kempo classes in NY as I am also attending school there, so I can get some of these tapes from one of the instructors. I would be happy to help you out. How much are you prepared to pay for them above cost?
Sandra, who's your branch master, please?
Kesshu.

[Joseph Aaronson]

Hi Ned,

Send me and email and let me know which videos you are missing in your collection. My friend is currently taking this martial art in Toronto, so I can ask him if he can order these for you and help you out. Then you can deal with him directly.

I actually took shoringi kempo a year ago when I was studying there and I really enjoyed it. However, I did not like the fact that there were salutations to a person on a picture frame and the references made to budha (it did not seem to go with christianity). The class that I took was actually full so I am surprised there are only a few people discussing shoringi kempo here ...perhaps it is not as popular now)

Later!
Joseph Aaronson
:karate:

[Joseph Aaronson]

I just noticed the other person's posting here stating that these are restricted videos, so you may have a problem, Ned. My friend is likely not qualified to buy them. I will try asking him anyways, but why not check eBay!

Joseph Aaronson
:karate:

[Kimpatsu]

I just noticed the other person's posting here stating that these are restricted videos, so you may have a problem, Ned. My friend is likely not qualified to buy them. I will try asking him anyways, but why not check eBay!

Joseph Aaronson
:karate:
Shronji Kempo training videos are restricted and thus not available on e-bay. Any Kenshi caught passing on said videos is liable to WSKO sanctions.
BTW, Joseph, what is the name of your friend at the Toronto branch?

[Joseph Aaronson]

Tony, What do you mean by "WSKO sanctions"?

As you can appreciate, I won't post my friend's name here without obtaining consent (and he is a very private person!)

BTW, I was curious as to why you are wearing the black coat on top of your judo uniform? Is it heavy with the thick belt? What rank do you have to be to wear one of those?

Joseph Aaronson
:karate:

[Kimpatsu]

Tony, What do you mean by "WSKO sanctions"?
The ultimate sanction would be dismissal from WSKO. Other sanctions may be at the discretion of the branch master.


As you can appreciate, I won't post my friend's name here without obtaining consent (and he is a very private person!)
If he's a Toronto Kenshi, he won't be hard to find; I know the Toronto Branch Master very well.


BTW, I was curious as to why you are wearing the black coat on top of your judo uniform? Is it heavy with the thick belt? What rank do you have to be to wear one of those?
Ask your friend.

[Joseph Aaronson]

The ultimate sanction would be dismissal from WSKO. Other sanctions may be at the discretion of the branch master.

OUCH!

If he's a Toronto Kenshi, he won't be hard to find; I know the Toronto Branch Master very well.

DOUBLE OUCH!

Ask your friend.

MAJOR OUCH! (now that last one is cruel!)
:bandit:
Joseph Aaronson

[Kimpatsu]

MAJOR OUCH! (now that last one is cruel!)
:bandit:
Joseph Aaronson
Why? If you really have a friend in the Toronto branch, he should be able to answer all such questions.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Visitors to the forum,reading this thread for the first time may be wondering about Tony's cautious and guarded replies.

I will point out that on another discussion forum (Ebudo.com) the character who originally signed himself "Ned Soo" was told he couldn't buy the videos and came back on the board under varous pseudonyms to try and "support" himself. This did not go unnoticed by the Moderators and his membership was terminated. He can contact the Admin to see about getting back on...

So any "New" member that suddenly appears on this thread to support Ned, is being viewed with a certain degree of suspicion. I hope that this does not upset or offend anyone who may think it is all rather "cloak and dagger".

Ned's request for restricted videos was declined. If WSKO members give away or sell these videos then they will be in breach of various agreements. Ned knows this, but is still trying to persuade genuine Kenshi to run the risk of expulsion, just to help out an old "ex-leper"....


His tactic in the new pseudonym guise, was to come on the board and ask the innocent basic question that would lead to an informed person spending a few minutes carefully crafting an answer. Ned, it would appear, has already got all the books and videos that he is allowed, and would already know the answers that he asked for...

[Kimpatsu]

Visitors to the forum,reading this thread for the first time may be wondering about Tony's cautious and guarded replies.

I will point out that on another discussion forum (Ebudo.com) the character who originally signed himself "Ned Soo" was told he couldn't buy the videos and came back on the board under varous pseudonyms to try and "support" himself. This did not go unnoticed by the Moderators and his membership was terminated. He can contact the Admin to see about getting back on...

So any "New" member that suddenly appears on this thread to support Ned, is being viewed with a certain degree of suspicion. I hope that this does not upset or offend anyone who may think it is all rather "cloak and dagger".

Ned's request for restricted videos was declined. If WSKO members give away or sell these videos then they will be in breach of various agreements. Ned knows this, but is still trying to persuade genuine Kenshi to run the risk of expulsion, just to help out an old "ex-leper"....


His tactic in the new pseudonym guise, was to come on the board and ask the innocent basic question that would lead to an informed person spending a few minutes carefully crafting an answer. Ned, it would appear, has already got all the books and videos that he is allowed, and would already know the answers that he asked for...
Indeed, David; I think our latest correspondent is also the same "Ned Soo": however, being unable to compare his ISP with the ISP used by his various sock puppets on e-budo, (www.e-budo-com) I can't be sure.
Kesshu.

[Cebu]

Tony,

I too am curious about your (dogi and obi?) I have often noted their uniqueness and have meant to ask before. My older brother has just started training in the Chinese art of Kenpo. Are the two styles related? Could you provide me more information?

Respectfully,

John

[Kimpatsu]

I too am curious about your (dogi and obi?) I have often noted their uniqueness and have meant to ask before. My older brother has just started training in the Chinese art of Kenpo. Are the two styles related? Could you provide me more information?

No, John, the two styles are not related. Despite "Shorin" and "Kempo", Shorinji Kempo is not related to any other style so named.
The pic of me is wearing a hoi. This is a long black garment worn over the dogi, and tied with a big thick belt that looks like a German sausage. Only black belts are allowed to wear hoi, and we only wear them for special occasions. The rest of the time, we wear normal dogi with a coloured belt system, just like everyone else.
HTH.

[Cebu]

Tony,

Thanks. I went and browsed the WSKO website for more knowledge, but didn't see any other pictures or information relating to the hoi.

I did however see some pictures of practioners wearing the hoi on a branch website from Iowa.

So it is more of a ceremonial garment for senior practioners than a training uniform?

From what I could tell your style seems to blend the hard style of karate and the soft style of Aikido. Hopefully I have not misunderstood or oversimplified it. It appears to be a very thorough art...How long have you been training in it?

Didn't mean to hijack the topic...just curious. I got a very late start in the MA and I'm becoming more and more fascinated by the various styles.

Regards,

John

[Kimpatsu]

Not merely ceremonies, John; we also wear the hoi for demonstrations, and other public events.
Shorinji Kempo goho superficially resembles karate, in that it comprises punching, kicking, blocking, etc., and juho superficially resembles aikido, yes, but there is more to it than that; however, as a one-line explanation, it serves fine.
Don't worry about "hijacking" the thread; I think this bonehead's attempt to get hold of classified Shorinji Kempo videos is at an end. In future, however, it would be better to start a new thread in the Shorinji Kempo forum. As the moderator, I monitor all traffic through the Shorinji Kempo forum.
Best,

[Zero]

I agree that they should be able to sell the videos. I think it would be ridiculous for WSKO to take any action against an instructor that gave access to those videos. Do you have any documentation on past situations? What would WSKO actually do? Give him a pay cut? (note: they don't actually get paid) Send an investigation team over to check the teacher out? Beat him up? Take away his students? Fire him, so that all his students would lose their sensei, and Shorinji Kempo would possible lose some kenshi? Firing instructors who are the very framework of Shorinji Kempo over video access is ridiculous. I might understand if the level of skill on the videos is low. Then they would want to hide them. But for the most part, the level is acceptable. Is that the reason?

Remember, the goal of Shorinji Kempo is a utopian society where people truly love and care for each other, half for themselves, and thinking half for others.

What intellegent reasons do you have for witholding the videos?

The kyohan was written many years ago, when many things were different.
I await your intellegent responses.

Zero Nero

[Ewok85]

Does the person wanting the videos even meet the requirements? Ie. to buy the 1st kyuu video must have completed 2nd kyuu etc.

The point here is that the videos are for kenshi who want to see more on how to do the techniques, not to further some persons video collection. The videos are the intelectual property of WSKO and as such they have every right to ssay how they are sold.

Why do they even want the videos? Just go to training and you'll learn 1000% better how to do it.

The main point that is being made is that if you want Shorinji gear (which is a registered trademark) then you simply ask your branch manager, who would be more than happy to do so.

[Ewok85]

*sigh*


On another note, the thought of there being a penalty or discipline by WSKO to a kenshi who sells their own previously purchased videos to another person is absurd and outrageous. Such an action by WSKO would likely lead to a successful lawsuit in the courts seeking damages (perhaps a class-action suit against WSKO if enough "disciplinary action" were to happen).

Thems the rules, when you became a member you agreed to such things.


In order to understand why anyone can legally sell these pre-owned videos, take a look at the following example. One person purchases a Sony Stereo from a members-only store, such as Costco, and resells it to another person by placing an ad in the local paper. Perhaps the stereo is even resold in a garage sale, or at a flea market.

Thats a stereo that is sold to the general public. This is a video made by the WSKO for the education of WSKO memebers.



Regarding the "secrecy" of the sk techniques...there is nothing secret about them.

Correct.


They are detailed in many Japanese-language & Spanish-language books that can be found at most bookstores. Similarly, translations of the original two English books by Doshin So can still be readily purchased (I even own them), although the English versions are now rare.

And? These books were meant to be sold like that.

Look its not hard to understand. The videos alone are meaningless unless coupled with training under a proper teacher. Theres no point to just sell them to anyone, you'd get fake wannabe sk clubs popping up and it would ruin the whole idea.

[Zero]

I believe the real question is, why are those videos restricted? Unless you address that question, we cannot understand this. Simply saying that access should not be granted simply because hombu says so is absurd. Obeying the rules just for the sake of rules does not lead to any progress or thinking. The last comment about the videos being meaningless unless with an instructor is not solid. I understand the point, that without a teacher, the essence of the techniques are not transfered, ect. But what if the person wants the videos for enjoyment? To own something rare? To compare Shorinji Kempo to other arts as a reference source. To practice with? Getting some knowledge and skill out of the video is not impossible. Of course learning is facilitated with an instructor, but the videos are not meaningless without an instructor.

[Ewok85]

But what if the person wants the videos for enjoyment? To own something rare? To compare Shorinji Kempo to other arts as a reference source. To practice with?

I did write up a big point by point thing but im not in the mood so its gone. Heres the best example i can think of.

You've been to McDonalds yeah? They are everywhere. They sell sauces. Mustard, sweet chili, sweet and sour. You can only buy these sauces from a mcd. Just go in and get one. But you cant buy 100 and then sell them yourself.

Plus the videos arent that exciting. Its 2 guys talk while holding hands on the main. Its just for people who want to grade and get on with it. I dont even know anyone with the videos besides my branch manager, who offered them to me but i wasnt interested. But you're still ignoring my last post. What grade is this person? I cant get anything above 1st dan videos because i'm still Ikkyu.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Zero, I'm curious to hear your relative position within the debate. You mention being in a minority position, which is true when compard with the respondents thus far. What is your position within Shorinji Kempo? Are you a very well-read mudansha or a seasoned yudansha that has no time for bureaucracy?

It is not always easy to see reasons behind some rules... certain cultures promote a healthy disregard for unnecessary restrictions or "red tape". Is this your background? Are you distrustful of shadowy figures that seek to keep the doors closed?

What is your rank and where did you train? Is your contrary attitude a result of cultural differences?



There is a certain amount of guesswork involved in trying to work out why some things are restricted. But the struggle to work it out is irrelevant. The tapes are an in-house thing. They aren't supposed to be sold on. If it is to prevent unscrupulous fakers getting hold of teaching materials, or to allow Hombu a greater freedom to save money on production costs... it really doesn't matter. The tapes are distributed to the people who need them, by the people who are best able to determine whether they can be trusted to have them...

[Zero]

Mentioning that seeing reasons behind rules is sometimes difficult is an excellent point. It is true, and that is why most people simply accept rules without thinking why we have them. Shorinji Kempo tries to bulid leaders, who can think critically, and act. However you approach it, one should always look into the root of things, trying to find the essence, the "why" to find true meaning. To gain wisdom and intuition, one must look deeper into the true meanings behind everything, this is what I believe. Only when you find the true reason should you accept something as being "right". I wouldn't call this distrust or suspicion, but a heathy way to improve your critical thinking skills and awareness.

The reason for the distibution policy does matter. Should we always discard ideas that we don't understand? I don't understand Bush's reasons for going to war. Shoud I just accept it because the guesswork is too difficult and it is an "in house" (the country) thing?

I do not think it is reasonable to believe that the people trying to get these videos are unscrupulous fakers. There may have been a time in Japan and/or Indonesia that Shorinji was popular enough that non-kenshi would try and use the name to get rich. Shorinji is not very popular now.

The "best example" with the sauces is not the same, in that the goal of the corporation and the goal of Shorinji is different. The goal of the corporation is to make as much money for the shareholders as possible. If they let people sell sauces, then where do they draw the line? People start selling cheeseburgers on their own, and the corporation possibly loses business. The difference is the goal. I do not understand how these examples are the same.
Anybody can go in and buy one sauce, but you cant go in and buy 100 to resell. This situation is totally different in that not anybody can buy these videos. One must have proper certification from hombu.

Please elaborate specifically on how hombu can have greater freedom to save on production costs. I did not understand that point.

In this discussion, I do not think the excitement and entertainment value of the videos is relevant. While one person may find it boring, another may find it facinating. Different eyes see different things.
How do you know that the videos were made for people who just want to grade and get on with it? Did your instructor tell you that? Who told him that? I am interested to hear the rationale behind that point. Saying that the videos are boring is not a real reason to restrict access.

[syzygy]

I await your intellegent responses.

Zero Nero

Intelligent might be difficult, but I will give it a try.

I can come up with two reasons why the videos are restricted (not saying that they are my opinions, just possible explanations).

The first is so that kenshi will not mess up the lesson plan. If I get the videos for grades above what I learn at the dojo and practice them at home, without supervision, I am bound to get them wrong. And we all know what a pain it is to relearn a technique. If they are restricted for kenshi, it would just be plain stupid to let everyone else go buy them.

The second is so that noone can get the tapes, practice a bit at home, try a technique on his friend, break something off and then tell everyone that is was Shorinjikempo and give us a bad reputation.


Try turning the question around: Why should we NOT restrict the videos?
I can not think of even one good reason for that!


__________________
Magnus Gustafsson

[Ewok85]

How do you know that the videos were made for people who just want to grade and get on with it?
What other purpose do the videos have? Its not to make money, as they obviously dont sell many. Its not for entertainment or promotion as they sell to kenshi. So besides being for the education of those learning the techniques in the videos what else can they be used for?

If you really want shorinji based videos/dvd's go here: http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=304
I've been told they are alot better and were made for entertainment.


This situation is totally different in that not anybody can buy these videos. One must have proper certification from hombu.
Merely ask your friendly branch manager, they'll get it in for you.

But the point is that the videos were made for kenshi. You have to be a certain grade to buy a certain video, in the same way (as syzygy mentioned) that we are taught techniques in a meaningful and planned manner. Dont take it so personal that you cant go buying thrm willynilly, I cant either and I accept that.

Ona a side note has anyone watched the videos? Are they anygood or am I just as well off learning under half a dozen 5thdan and 4thdan sensei's? :D hehe

[Tripitaka of AA]

Major corporations and large companies make "training videos" for their staff. They often feature well-known faces (actors, Presenters, Sports personalities, etc.) yet are made to a reduced budget compared with anything intended for broadcast or public sale.

The savings come from trimming any unnecessary decoration or introductory niceties. The videos are "fit-for-purpose" if they get straight to the point and educate their target audience.

These videos are produced on the understanding that they will never be broadcast, or sold to the public. The performers have clauses in their contract guaranteeing this (much like US Movie Stars that make TV Ads "For Japan Only"). The quality of the product may be fit for purpose but everyone knows that it is not appropriate for wider distribution.

[Zero]

I am afraid you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. I do not take it personally that I cannot simply go and buy these videos. I have no desire to own these videos. I simply disagreed with the reason for the restriction that was put forth.

The two reasons put forth as to why they should be restricted are appreciated. If we are talking about the same videos, it is my understanding that the videos were produced by hombu to set and raise the standard. Too many dojos were changing the form and execution of techniques to their own style. Hombu felt that to keep Shorinji accessable to the public, the techniques should be uniform. The videos are for instructors to watch, and to see the basic form to teach their students. Why would a student need a video if he can watch his instructor do it? The reasoning is weak in that while it is true that learning techniques out of turn is not the best way to learn. At the same time, this is not so important. If it was, classes would be split into different rooms where lower ranked belts could not see higher techniques, lest they become confused. No one would have access to the kyohan, which has all the techniques. With that reasoning, the kyohan should be released in parts, based on the kenshi's level. The fukudoku hon would not have all of those stances that you do not learn yet. Pictures with text in the days of the kyohan are today's video. Yet anyone with shodan can have a kyohan.

Saving the reputation is a good thought. That may be a strong part of the real reason why they are restricted. The videos are low production, nothing flashy. If the public got these videos, they may think that videos produced by the organization are no good. But, if they are so boring as pointed out earlier, why would non-kenshi choose these videos over a more well known flashier video. What stops non-kenshi from seeing a released video, copying the movements and breaking their friends wrist? In a production video, they show techniques, just like in the videos in question. Therefore, reputation may be a factor, but I do not think for the reasons given.

Why should we NOT restrict the videos?
Situations like this arise. When you can't get it people want it. People then copy, steal, sell material, and hombu does not get any money for them.
More access means a wider audience. Anything that the organization can offer in terms of information is a plus as even if one person watches the videos and gains greater understanding of the techniques, then that is a huge plus, for him and the organization, as the very concept of Shorinji is built on the quality of the members. I can think of a few more reasons, but can any of you? Is it possible to take your strong view on this issue and put it aside, and join the other side, simply to explore the issue? Can you find something you never thought of before? Being the devil's advocate yourself will always help one gain understanding on both sides.

Zero Nero

[David Dunn]

Ona a side note has anyone watched the videos? Are they anygood or am I just as well off learning under half a dozen 5thdan and 4thdan sensei's? :D hehe

Leon, unequivocally they are excellent. My Sensei told me that Arai Sensei insisted that each hokei performed (by Kawashima Sensei on the whole) was in accordance with the Kyohan. The DVD is navigable, and as Zero says is really more of an instructors's aid to check the correct hokei. If you have never received any instruction in Shorinji Kempo they would not give away any 'secrets'. They serve the same purpose as the Kyohan, which is uniformity of hokei.

[John McCulloch]

Hi Ned,

Send me and email and let me know which videos you are missing in your collection. My friend is currently taking this martial art in Toronto, so I can ask him if he can order these for you and help you out. Then you can deal with him directly.

I actually took shoringi kempo a year ago when I was studying there and I really enjoyed it. However, I did not like the fact that there were salutations to a person on a picture frame and the references made to budha (it did not seem to go with christianity). The class that I took was actually full so I am surprised there are only a few people discussing shoringi kempo here ...perhaps it is not as popular now)

Later!
Joseph Aaronson
:karate:

The above post is purely fictional - we have never had someone named "Joseph Aaronson" train at our dojo. The description of what we do is wrong too.

John McCulloch
Branch Master
Shorinji Kempo Toronto Branch

[Zero]

That sounds like a pretty good description from someone who just took it for a year and didn't really understand what was going on.

Many dojos make it a custom to gassho a picture of kaiso. They do not do this at hombu, except for Kawashima sensei (or was it Arai?), but this is still normal. I believe that it is to acknowledge the founder, and to always stay true to his teachings. Whenever the organization goes astray, everybody knows to go back to Kaiso's teachings. The gassho is a gassho to ourselves, to remind ourselves to stay true to the path. By facing a picture and doing this, it strengthens the image/thought connection in the brain.

References to Buddha are not directly made in the prayers. Dharma is mentioned in
"mindful that our spirits come from dharma and our bodies from our parents..."
but talks about something buddha simply found and talked about as well.
If you really study and understand Kongo Zen, you will find that it does not go against Chrisianity at all, although you may find that you simply decide reject Christianity when find Kongo Zen and begin to understand dharma. It is getting smarter, and seeing things in a different way. It is unfortunate that people reject Kongo Zen for fear of "betraying" their gods. Do you people really think that your gods would really frown upon a way designed to make man love each other and help each other? Kongo Zen strives for peace on earth, all man loving each other in peace and excellence. Logically, it does not make sense that teachings so full of love and caring, would be a rejected by gods whos own teachings teach love.
You are missing out.

The previous post was not purely fictional. There is a lot of truth in that post. Just because he lied about his name and the location does not make it so.

Zero Nero
666 dan

[Colin Linz]

It doesn’t really matter what we think about WSKO’s policy on distribution of training resources, WSKO has a policy on the matter and our opinion of it won’t change the reality of it. We are all free to make our own choices and live with the consequences.

Cheers
Colin Linz

[Zero]

That adds nothing to conversation. And I think as kenshi, our opinion matters. Of course it matters. WSKO is simply the representative of us. We are WSKO. Jeez. If every single kenshi were to request for the videos, do you think WSKO might change the policy? Is it impossible? Is it not worth discussing because you know it won't happen? What's the use of talking about world peace then? Or anything for that matter?

Zero Nero

[Ewok85]

If every single kenshi were to request for the videos, do you think WSKO might change the policy?
As per WSKO policy, yes, we would receive the videos.

Hi Colin! *waves*

[Colin Linz]

That adds nothing to conversation. And I think as kenshi, our opinion matters. Of course it matters. WSKO is simply the representative of us. We are WSKO. Jeez. If every single kenshi were to request for the videos, do you think WSKO might change the policy? Is it impossible? Is it not worth discussing because you know it won't happen? What's the use of talking about world peace then? Or anything for that matter?

Zero Nero

It hasn’t happened yet, and until it does happen this is the policy. We work within the hear and now, this does not stop us from trying to change a situation, but until it is changed the policy remains and if you decide to ignore it, then you do so with the understanding that you are acting against the policy.

Colin Linz

[Ade]

Shorinjikenshi

You are not kenshi, you will never get the dvd set.

It has been explained to you at length why.

We know you want to copy and sell them on e-bay.

So be a good fake and get back in your sad box.

Adrian Foster-Starr