Rape Avoidance

[John Bennett]

This is the new thread to discuss rape avoidance.

[Jeff Burger]

I do free women self defense seminars about every 2 or 3 months.

I STRONGLY advice those doing a seminar to be sensitive to the group.
You have people who are at least worried about it.
You will have a certain # who know someone who has been raped and some who have been raped.

I have women trained to help me with the seminar as I have had women freak out cause the technique hit too close to their situation.

They just feel more comfortable with anotehr women than some strange man.

Jeff

[Sgathak]

Since the posts have already been chopped of most of the pertinent discussion, it may not be of any value here - but you may want to split the thread in the womens section and move it here. that would at least open that thread back up to more topic oreninted discussion.

Jeff - It is psychologically important to have a woman work with a man - however before doing any of that work it is even MORE important to train a woman how to effectivly deal with men/situations that make them uncomfortable.

We recently held a seminar on rape prevention, it was a two day class of which fully 1/4 of the class - the first 4 hours - was spent teaching the students how to deal with men/situations both in training and in daily life that are uncomfortable and threatening. This is done progressionally. Starting with what behaviors are inappropriate and how to spot them, legal rights, verbal responses and eventually moving into stand up defences and only ending with ground work on the last day which is obviously VERY upclose, personal, and the crux of the issue for most... however this is long after they have been given the tools they need to deal.

No, two days isnt enough to undo the damage of past wrongs. Nor is it enough to train a person in a martial art. Its about empowerment more than anything.

[Jeff Burger]

Got a cirriculum of what they are teaching?

Im always looking to learn more.

Jeff

[Sgathak]

I can probably get a copy of the hand out we used. The legal info wont be the same in many cases between CO and MA, but the psych, psych prep, and mental/verbal response stuff is universal.

Let me see what I can do.

[Jeff Burger]

Cool thanks

Jeff

[Musubi Dojo]

"I can probably get a copy of the hand out we used. The legal info wont be the same in many cases between CO and MA, but the psych, psych prep, and mental/verbal response stuff is universal."

If you don't mind I'd like to see that material as well. I've never been taught anything specific (pertaining to mental/verbal response) in this area and would like to learn.

musubi_28@yahoo.ca

Many Thanks
Chris

[dao]

It sounds like a number of us, including me would like to see the information you pass out so maybe with our dear, Benevelant Dictator's help we can find a way to have it posted here on Budoseek.

[De_Franza]

Me too! My teacher runs a "women's self defence" class every so often, so it would be great to expand the material he's working from.

[J.J.Smith]

(edited by moderator)

[Cliff Hargrave]

I edited J.J.'s post (to avoid offending anyone), but for those that didn't read it, he was basically asking if doing something to "gross" the attacker out would be a valid defense.

I have actually heard about that before from a women's self defense advocate on TV. They suggesting vomiting (or other bodily things) as a last ditch defense. I guess it could work on some attackers, however I have personally arrested a rapist that continued on with the attack after something similar. I will not get into the details, but I just wanted to make the point that it is certainly not a perfect defense. For someone to be a rapist, they are already twisted in their thinking, so their reactions to things will be different from the rest of us.

[Sgathak]

Cliff is right, I read the post in question before it was deleted, and tried to formulate an appropriate way to answer but couldnt come up with one.

Some rapeists, though not all, actually get a raised arousal when their victim exhibits physical fear responses like those in question.

As to the rest of this thread... Im still working on getting the info. there are some legal issues that still need settled before I feel comfortable passing this out over the net. I dont own the copyright on the info, ya know?

[J.J.Smith]

Oh come on, my post wasn't that bad :D
But I shall bow to your suppieor ettiquete.

"it is certainly not a perfect defense. For someone to be a rapist, they are already twisted in their thinking, so their reactions to things will be different from the rest of us."

True. I'm thinking like a sane person.

[dao]

Unfortunately, there is no perfect defense or we would have found it long ago and everyone would be using it. Also different situations call for different measures so its all about accessing the risks and forming a plan and following through with it. I also think it is important to run through scenarios in your head and remain alert in public- especially when you are alone and know your limits what you will and will not do. These are some of the best ideas I've ever heard for preventing random attacks (for this sake of clarity I'm going to refer to possible attackers as him):

- my favorite is based on the assumption that even crazy people don't like to attack crazy people because they are too unpredictable if you are alone and you see or feel someone sizing you up start proclaiming in as loud as voice as possible "THE VOICES IN MY HEAD ARE TELLING ME THAT, THAT MAN OVER THERE WANTS TO HARM ME. HE'S A WHITE MAN ABOUT 6'2" WITH A BALD HEAD AND WISH HE WOULD LEAVE ME THE *EXPLICATIVE* ALONE! HE'S ABOUT 280 LBS AND I REALLY WANT HIM TO GO AWAY BECAUSE HE'S MAKING ME FREAK OUT...". and at the same time queitly dial 911 on your cell phone. I've acutally used this once in on an almost empty subway platform called the man call me a "crazy *****" and walked away. There is a trade-off here though because in letting him know you can describe him, if he does still attack you, you've upped the stakes considerably and it's more likely to be a lethal attack. But, I think most would be rapists would rather find an easier target.

- Don't quietly let him take you to another place. In most cases if he gets to choose the environment of the attack- the attack will be much worse. Also if I'm going to be stabbed or shot I want it too happen in as busy place as possible so that even if I die chances are better that someone will see something. Also its a sad fact that it is still easier to prove that its an attack if there is a visable wound. How many times do rapists claim that it was consentual? Have you ever heard a someone who has stabbed someone else claim that the victim wanted it? And even if they did what statement is more plausable? I haven't survived a gunshot wound or a stab wound but, I have survived a rape. And if given the choice I'd opt for a gunshot or stab wound over being raped.

- Don't drink anything a man gives you in a bar unless it comes in a sealed bottle or you see the bartender make it and the bartender hands it directly to you. Also never drink anything which you have left unattended. The statistics on driug assisted rapes are frightening.

- Tell your attacker that you have AIDs and if he has sex with you, he will die.

- Never yell "rape"- yell "fire" instead. If people think there is a rape occuring they probably won't want to get involved, however, if they think there is a fire they are involved becuase they want to know where the fire is and if it is coming toward them. Also if someone calls to report a fire the police come too.

All that said in the end the most important thing is keeping thinking through the attack and follow your instincts. Remember he is trying to harm you so harming him, lying to him, cheating him or stealing from him are all acceptable behavior. The most important thing is you survive. The only rule is that there are no rules.

[Erik]

I edited J.J.'s post (to avoid offending anyone), but for those that didn't read it, he was basically asking if doing something to "gross" the attacker out would be a valid defense.

In high school, an acquaintance of mine actually raped a girl who had puked all over herself and lay passed out in a chaise lounge by the pool. I was horrified that he would do such a thing and felt a little responsible as the girl, who was far, far too drunk, asked me for a ride home. She passed out a little later and puked all over (I mean everywhere) and we figured she would be fine at this "gentleman's" house.

We were wrong. Poor girl.