hebology real and proven

[laotzu]

herbology has tons of double blind studies to prove it, and amny against western medicine, to see which worked better.get any chinese medical journal from beijing or shanghai, they are printed every month, and they test acupuncture and herbs all the time. as far as yin yang, its not an energy, it can be viewed as alkalinity or acidity,etc, balance of these two is homeostasis
theres nothing mystical about it, also any herbal materia medica list the chemicals in each herb an example is this-
zao jiao-chinese herbits properties are acrid,warm and slightly toxic, actions-dispells phlem useful for cough, wheezing,etc,helps for facial paralysis,reduces swelling, unblocks the bowels,
major ingrediants-triterpenoid saponins,including geldinin,gledigenin,gleditchia saponin,ceryl alchohol,nanacosane,stigmasteral,sitosterol
antibiotic effect- has been shown to have effect against gram neg bacteria
and has been shown to increase secretions in st and respiratory tract.

this was random out of my materia medica. all these herbs have been tested, its not mystical or just belief system, here in america there is no money in herbs because they have no patent, so our country will not do the studies, however there are certain placesn that do, columbia presbyterian hospital uses herbs to help cancer patients, and i believ sloan kettering may as well.also its hard here, to test herbs for a headache lets say, because in tcm they have many patterns for headache, so we wouldnt all be given the same herbs.
also germany has the comission-e, which is then fda of herbs, herbs are given as prescription, and all studies are done on them, the comission e monographs is a book out on some of theirn testing. the world is huge, we are just in the matrix with american policy, an example is ephedra taken off the market. this is a great herb for asthma, one of the best, however vitamin companies found that it raises your heart rate and burns fat, so they put it in weight loss products, so of course people died, now its off the market, made the headlines, etc. non steroid anti inflamatory drugs are the leading cause of gi bleeding,they are not mentioned on the news, paxil has caused many suicides and paxil was sued for its withdrawel effects and the personn won a huge settlement, the antidepressant serzone causes liver failure in certain people, and its on the market, but kava caused maybe 5 people liver problems, and it was yanked from many shelves, its a joke.if you want to learn about herbs, just get bensky and gables materia medica, its a start
as far as tcm lingo, its just lingo, energy is qi, its proven the body works on electricity, you can measure acupoints for electricity, yoin and yang can just be alkaline and acidic, yin is fluids and electrolytes,yang can be b-vitam9ins,minerals,things that release energy in the krebs cycle,etc.dont get caught up in the language barrier, its just language

[John Bennett]

"laotzu"

This is your THIRD and last warning.

Per the Budoseek rules you agreed to, you must included your real, full name in all your posts.

[laotzu]

,if your gonna be anal about names, i will go elsewhere, ive written my name many times,i was hoping this would be a good place to learn and exchange.i have nothing to hide, and i dont really like leaving my name, because i have dealt with some loonies on the net before.so if its your rules, so be it.

[Mandeigh Wells]

,if your gonna be anal about names, i will go elsewhere, ive written my name many times,i was hoping this would be a good place to learn and exchange.i have nothing to hide, and i dont really like leaving my name, because i have dealt with some loonies on the net before.so if its your rules, so be it.thats a shame, your posts were getting interesting. We post our names (and our photographs) because we stand by our comments. I haven't seen your name 'many times'....if you have nothing to hide...whats the problem? You don't need to post your Tel no, your address, your email ...or even your location...there is nothing anal about it...these are the rules that you sign up to when you join Budoseek.

Mandeigh

[Kimpatsu]

Despite Laotzu's stroppy attitude and sloppy grammar, the post was interesting, but I think it misses the point. No one has ever claimed that herbs do not have certain effects. Ergoty bread was used as a rudimentary penicillin long before Alexander Fleming isolated and synthesised the modern variety. The dispute is over what causes the observed effects. A TCM practitioner will tell you that the "spirit of the fungus (bark, etc.)" is bringing your yin/yang back into balance. A pharmacist will tell you that the antibiotic effect is caused by binding to the T20 receptor cell of the bacterium and destabilising the cell wall. Now, given that they can't both be right, which do you think is correct? I know which one my money's on.

[Harutomo]

if i get the plague, i'll call Dr. Fleicher. but when it's unimportant bunk like the common cold i am quite pleased with my yin/yang. it doesn't matter since they are basically the same in the fact that they treat the problem. "ancient chinese secrets" have been used to heal for ages, and then recent "medical science" has discovered that the same herbs used in for the same reasons as in chinese medicine, actually work(ooooooh....hocus pocus got the goods.) but then there is the fact that modern medicine spends time making synthetic drugs that do the same thing as herbs but on a higher degree.

but I still think it's sad that we have no cure for cancer/AIDS/etc., but we have a synthetic pill that can give an 80yr old man 3 hour erection. what was the purpase of that?!

[Harutomo]

correction. we have 2. Viagra and Cialsis. why????? :confused2

[kenkyusha]

I sincerely hope that when I'm 80, anything will help in that department. Actually, viagra was developed for some other condition (blood pressure possibly?) but was found to have an effect on people suffering from ED.

Be well,
Jigme

[Musubi Dojo]

The dispute is over what causes the observed effects. A TCM practitioner will tell you that the "spirit of the fungus (bark, etc.)" is bringing your yin/yang back into balance. A pharmacist will tell you that the antibiotic effect is caused by binding to the T20 receptor cell of the bacterium and destabilising the cell wall. Now, given that they can't both be right, which do you think is correct? I know which one my money's on.

Why can't they both be right?

Cheers
c

[Flame Element]

I don't know about the whole sprit of the bark thing.. but herbology is effective. As is the use of essential oils. I'm not talking about the oils that are just for scent that you buy at 5$ a bottle, but the bottles the same size that cost from 20$ to 150$ or more that still have the plant living within the bottle(not sure how that is.. but it is) There's even a cure for the common cold, it's not to get it in the first place. The oils will save you from colds 99.9% of the time, that's a proven fact. My cousin hasn't had a cold for years now, since she started using them. And she's healed other things from car accidents, etc but it's none of my business to be posting them on a forum.

Oh, and they both CAN be right. The effects of medicines you buy will work because of reactions, etc. But, things have certain properties that will heal you, things in nature. I duno about the spirit of the bark thing, or whatever, but it works. Also, stones have generative properties that can HE:P with healing. Bloodstone helps halt bleeding, but grab a bloodstone AFTER you grab a bandaid. If you care.. get the book "Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Creystal, Gem, and Metal Magic". It's all real stuff, just check it out. If you aren't Wiccan, ignore the religion things he says.

Over the counter or prescriptions medication helps your body, but there are things in nature just as strong if you know what you're doing. Using oils, making mortars from stones, all just as good. I know someone that was in a car accident and they were going to (without discretion) rip out a section of her spine and fuse the loose ends together. He/she practices yoga and martial arts and wouldn't have that happen, seeng as it would GREATLY limit mobility. They said "Okay, well, I'm going to try this my way first." So they used oils and these creams with oils, all natural things, none of it medicine you can buy at a pharmacy, for about a year. His or her back was completely healed. I swear that's a true story. But don't try this unless you've studied it for like three years, like the above mentioned person has.

[Flame Element]

Oh, and I'll change my signature so that it has my name. =\

[kodanjaclay]

Zach,

They would not "rip out her spine". My wife is fused from her neck to her lumbar region. She teaches Yoga, and is a sabum of Korean Mudo. You might want to think a bit before you type.

Viagra was indeed created for heart issues (of which I am certain the participants developed more of :D ). It was discovered during clinical trials that it had a rather interesting effect, notably when young attractive nurses walked by.

As far as neutraceuticals and pharmaceuticals... neutraceuticals can be very effective; however, one should not try and give advice as to their use without proper training and licensing. It can be both a civil and criminal liability... particularly if someone listens to you and they get worse, or pass on. Just some food for thought.

[Flame Element]

You don't get it; seeing as that person was explained in detail what would happen and that she'd have incredibly limited mobility by an experieced surgeon, I'm going to take her word before your opinion about her situation. Either way, the treatment worked, and that was my point.

[kodanjaclay]

Zach,

First there is no need to be rude. Second, you need to do more research into science before making dramatic assumptions. That is why we have a scientific method. As far as pharmaceuticals and neutraceuticals go, I work with them for a living. My job is to ensure their safety and efficacy, and to ensure that no part of the process violates the CFR or affects the safety, integrity, strength, purity or quality of the product.

[Flame Element]

I'm happy for your wife that she's teaching yoga and doing the things she's doing, but knowing my cousin she's seeing the best of doctors she can, and your wife's situation may not have been the same. 'Ripping out' isn't realistic, but people got the point if they're smart enough to know that no surgery would involve 'ripping out' someone's spine. I don't need to know how it works until I get into applying the methods myself in a few years, but I know that it works- which was the original point. I didn't mean to be rude and I apologize.
Oh, okay, me having to know more about science.. that was about an earlier post. Well I can assume that over the counter & prescriptions would work(not always..), and I know that for many things the natural methods would work, having had them used on myself and seeing a couple others helped with small to serious problems, and testimonials from other healers in chat rooms, etc. (who of course I can't be sure of the accuracy of what they say, having only spoken to them for a few minutes) I do however know what I'm talking about with the properties and uses of stones (there's no profession I know of involving that, so there's no real backup to what I'm saying, but either way I've studied and experimented-not recommended...), not a very strong healing technique but the generative properties have had some strong effects when cleansed, charged, and put to use, but that's another topic...
Oh, and there goes the thing about it being none of my business to be posting that on a forum..

[Dennis Monk]

Oh, and there goes the thing about it being none of my business to be posting that on a forum..

He just keeps pushing and pushing.....

[Spartan]

It is all good when you are a teen and try to make sense of the universe, that you form your own opinions. But, my young friend, it is best NOT to draw you conclusion on any subject or issue, way too early in your learning process, which you have really just begun to make the first few steps.

People here know that I have my share of disagreement with Frank Clay. But I'll tell you this, my friend. One would be truly honored if he bothers to share his knowledge and expertise with you, Zack.

[kodanjaclay]

Kenneth,

Thanks. I appreciate your comments. To go a little further with your comment... I remember being an avid student of both Zen and the Complete Reality School of Taoism. I remember thinking about how much I knew and the answers to this or that that was embodied within my being... almost like I was a sacred thing... lol. Today, I realize just how little I really do know. Isn't it funny how time changes perspective?

Zach,

I don't recall ever saying what you indicated. Now let me see if I can help you put this in persepctive. You have not been involved in any long term clinical trial. Nor have you received any substantiative training. My wife had this issue when she was a child and will be dealing with for life. She saw one of the best Peds Surgeons in the United States, who upon having to remove the Harrington rods, noted that he had never seen quite so much calcification.

My advice to you is this. If you seriously want to study the healing arts, then do so. But don't give advice until you have completed your course of study.And an internet message board is not the place. Tell me, how would you feel if someone took your advice over that of a physician and then died? Sure there may be something to the healing properties of certain stones due to their vibration. I think we have all heard or seen something about this at one time or another. BUT just because I have seen something about it, does not mean that I am going to go and give my half baked opinion on it to someone as I am unqualified to do so. Make sense? Sure, I can tell you that TCM holds that ginger has the capacity to sooth the external sheathings of a nerve for women in PPD, and that some believe that this may help PPD. I would be more likely to tell you that a neuron passes information using a cascading effect of alternating positive and negative current with the preceeding reverting back to its original state. Why? Because one is well documented, and decidely non-medical, whereas the other is me providing medical advice. There is a big big difference. One you can learn in any health/PE class, and the other has not been verified by medical science, so far as I am aware.

I hope this helps.

[Spartan]

Kenneth,

Thanks. I appreciate your comments. To go a little further with your comment... I remember being an avid student of both Zen and the Complete Reality School of Taoism. I remember thinking about how much I knew and the answers to this or that that was embodied within my being... almost like I was a sacred thing... lol. Today, I realize just how little I really do know. Isn't it funny how time changes perspective?
.You are welcome. But it is simply a matter of calling it as we see it.

Isn't it funny that when we were in high schools, we have all the answers to the world's problems (except that nobody wants to listen), but eventually it comes to where we have all the problems in the world and no solution to any of them?

[kodanjaclay]

ROFL. Oh yeah. I wish I knew now what I thought I knew then. Bill Gates would be working for MicroFrank Inc. :D

[yamatodamashii]

MicroFrank Inc. :D

I'd REALLY think about re-naming that corporation. Some people might not know your name... :up:

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, for anyone who was interested but not yet aware, that no TCM practitioner would ever attribute the efficacy of his treatments to the "spirit of" the remedy. The fact is, the Chinese were never exposed to Aristotle's "four-element" theory ("Earth, Water, Air, and Fire"...which we would understand today as "solid, liquid, gas and plasma"), the three-thousand year aftermath of which is the modern Periodic Table of Elements, as well as modern physics.
Rather, working from the Daoist taiji symbol, the Chinese formulated a system of five elements (Water, the "lesser yin" is "descending energy"; Metal, the "greater yin", is "contracting energy"; Wood, the "lesser yang", is "ascending energy"; Fire, the "greater yang" is "expanding energy"; and Earth is the "balancing energy". There is also a system by which element gives rise to or impedes another. This may seem primitive from the modern Western viewpoint, but that is because, unlike the West, the Chinese did not completely revise their system every time a new phenomenon was discovered.
In the West, the relatively simple elemental system of Aristotle has transformed into vast array of systems known as "science", which provide an excellent predictive matrix but requires a huge store of knowledge and mathematical ability to use to its fullest advantage.
The Chinese system does not match the predictive power of the scientific method, but it does *have* predictive power, and is relatively easily applied to a wide variety of topics. A TCM practitioner might prescribe a treatment to combat "an excess of fire in the kidneys", but it would not be any form of spirits (except alcohol spirits, which are used in the making of tinctures).

[kodanjaclay]

I think when he talks about spirit he is talking about either intent, or more in the case of some new age medicines, essence. There are more than a few that contain essence of this or that. When I asked what that was supposed to mean, they said it was the vibration of that particular element that they were trying to capture.. I was like OOOOO KKKK....