Supplements

[Waspe]

What do people think about Protien Whey and Protien Bars at GNC. Like pros and cons? What about side effects? Is there anything bad about them. I am a bit skeptical.

Any input is appciated.

[Cliff Hargrave]

First, unless you are serious weight lifter or athlete you probably do not need them. You should be able to get your protien needs from food.

If you are a weightlifter or you work out pretty hard then you can get much better prices on the internet. GNC is the most expensive way to buy supplements. The only thing good about them is sometimes you can buy just one bar and try it and see if you like it first before you buy a whole box. But now even our local Wal Mart carries most of the major brands of supplements.

I buy whey by the ten pound bags. http://www.dpsnutrition.com

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/images/editor/ON056.gif

The best tasting bar:

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/images/editor/NN092.gif

[peacefulwarrior]

Even if you are a pro body builder or pro athlete, you do not need them.

" Still there is little scientific proof to support their use , even athletes on extremely heavy routines. The protein requirement for these athlelets are not much higher than those of seditary individuals."

Fit and Well: Core concepts and Labs in
Physical Fitness and Wellness, 5th Ed.


Also you can have side effects like loss of vitamin B and Iron.


If you are going to take these things, i would only use them as meal replacement, and be sure to take a multi vitamin as well.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Even if you are a pro body builder or pro athlete, you do not need them.

" Still there is little scientific proof to support their use , even athletes on extremely heavy routines. The protein requirement for these athlelets are not much higher than those of seditary individuals."

Fit and Well: Core concepts and Labs in
Physical Fitness and Wellness, 5th Ed.


Also you can have side effects like loss of vitamin B and Iron.


If you are going to take these things, i would only use them as meal replacement, and be sure to take a multi vitamin as well.


No matter what you say concerning a topic there is always a group of folks who disagree. Especially in nutrition. (of course they are probably little, skinny, weak guys :D )

There are so many new studies out there, and nutrition and training programs are constantly changing. Today's athletes are bigger, stronger, and better as a result.

RDA is .8 grams per kilo of lean body weight. I think you would hard pressed to find any athlete or weight lifter that could make any gains consuming that small amount of protein.

I never heard of those side effects either, do you have a link to anything about it?




Here is a quick cut-n-paste that talks about some studies.

*************************

Exercise adds a new dimension to the issue because the body, with an increased need for protein, has to rely heavily upon dietary sources rather than draw from it's own stores. If this need is not met during exercise then the body will start to draw upon its muscle tissue as a source. Though it may seem that humans don't need much protein, the facts haven't been established as to how much an exercising individual should be taking in. Recent research shows that the RDA doesn't appear to meet the needs of exercising adults. One of the top researchers in this field, Dr Peter Lemon, stated in a recent review paper that, "the RDA for those engaged in strength training should be about 1.7 – 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body mass per day". Dr Lemon came to this conclusion after citing several studies (Fern, 1991, Tarnopolsky et al., 1992) which used amounts of protein ranging from 1.3 – 3.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight. At Kent University researchers tested 3 different groups of people: 1) on a low protein diet which was 0.9 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight; 2) another group eating 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight; and 3) a group eating 2.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight. Both sedentary and strength training groups were involved. The results showed that 1.4 grams resulted in protein synthesis while there were no changes in the low protein group and, finally, the group that ingested 2.4 grams of protein did not see any more increased protein synthesis than the 1.4 grams of protein group.

Another study conducted at the Letterman Army Institute of Research in San Francisco showed that subjects on a higher protein intake (2.8 g/kg/day), coupled with intense strength training, gained a whopping 3.28 kg (7.2 lbs) of lean mass. The study was done over a 40-day period and the subjects were trained to near exhaustion (2). Another study of weightlifters over a 3 month period, with the protein increased from 2.2g/kg/day to 3.5 g/kg/ day, resulted in a 6% increase in muscle mass and a 5% increase in strength (3). Susan M Klieiner, who holds a PhD in nutrition and human performance from Case Western Reserve University, states in her book, Power Eating, that for muscle building an intake of 1.6-2.2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight is recommended. Dr Michael Colgan, in Optimum Sports Nutrition, claims that the RDA doesn't meet the needs of athletes who train in an intense fashion. So, the evidence provided by some of the highly regarded "experts" in this field indicates that the addition of extra protein has been shown to display positive effects which produce muscle growth.

[Waspe]

Interesting stuff. I will definately eat a multi-vitamin, but I am wondering if I actually need the supplements.

I will be using them as meal replacements and probably won't use them everyday. I found a calculator online and it said I should be getting 111 grams of protien a day. I only get 90 grams though. I am 192 pounds, 6'1 tall, and 16 years old. I trying to lose just a little bit of weight, so I can see all my abs while I try and gain muscle. I run 2 miles a day, then weightlift. It consists of benchpressing, and curling. Problem is I get to a certain stage, and then never see results again. I am thinking it might be because of lack of protien.

I am always on the go because of school, running, Jujitsu. So, i don't exactly make anything or eat right all the time. I eat A LOT of cereal, it is like my main staple food. Then sometimes I might grab a few carrots as I run out the door, or a turkey sandwich. I know supplements are the best, but i hoping i can at least get some good nutritent than none.

What do you think do you think I should get some Protien Whey or Pro Crunch or Detour? I will probably buy just a few of each type of thing.. find what I like then get it online if I use it and see a difference.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Well the first thing you need is a better workout routine :)

read here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/

or here:
http://www.crossfit.com/

or here:
http://www.trainforstrength.com

Abs - all depends on body fat percentage. I have never seen mine but I know they have to be there somewhere!

Get your diet down right. Lean meats, lots of veggies, whole grains. Cut our sugar, white flour, and fried stuff. Plan ahead for your meals so you are not always rushing around and grabbing junk food for the convienance.

Read this about calories http://www.hussman.org/fitness/deficit.htm

Figure your BMR http://www.hussman.org/fitness/bmrcalc.htm

Start with all of this. Learn how to eat and work out, then worry about supplements.

[peacefulwarrior]

I don't have a link, but i will look. The book i quoted is my text book, for college.

Not to start a agrument or anything, but Waspe is only missing 21 grams of protien, that is a verry small amount, it can be easly brought into the diet without supps.

Also just to let everyone know, i use a protien supp as well. I use Muscle Milk. I use it as a Meal replacement when time is short, and as a snack to up my cal. SO i'm not a total non-shake person. I just don't like it when people and companys try to make it sound like thier shake will turn you into a huge fit person.

[peacefulwarrior]

Glad to see there are people that still give good advice about working out.

[Waspe]

After eading many of the Articles at BodyBudiler.com I have created a workout:

The Workout

Monday: Benchpress 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Military Press 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Tuesday: Barbell rows 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Deadlift 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Wednesday: Nothing

Thursday: Dips 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Barbell curls 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Friday: Squats 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Calf raises 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio


How does that look?

Now, on the note of nutrition I run into problems. Now, I am not a big eater at all like these guys, on bodybuilder.com eating like 3000 calories. I alsounderstand the fact your suposed to bulk before you lift, and once you get mass, start cutting. However, What If I am just trying to go for a medium Build and am cutting all the time.

I don't like a lot of meats, and those that I do have to much fat in my opnion. I am thinking of taking the suggestion of getting like a Pro Crunch protien bar and eating it for lunch. I normally just eat cereal everyday. Nobody cooks around my house, and I try making sandwiches, but after awhile it just doesn't taste good, But cearl does. If there is something I can get prepackaged that I can eat that is low fat, high nutrients and doesn't take a lot of money, I would be interested. Any suggestions?

Also, How much do Gyms cost to workout at, and do you think it is worth it for me to go to one? Right now I workout at my friends house, but sometimes he can't make it or is doing something else, so i can't lift, and try to do something. I was thinking I could get my own weight training things here at my home, but my parents are slobs and leave there stuff all over the house, they have attachment issues and can't get rid of anything. So, We have no room for anything. Maybe There is a way to make some makeshift things for the excersises. Any suggestions? Comments?

[Cliff Hargrave]

After eading many of the Articles at BodyBudiler.com I have created a workout:

The Workout

Monday: Benchpress 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Military Press 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Tuesday: Barbell rows 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Deadlift 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Wednesday: Nothing

Thursday: Dips 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Barbell curls 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio

Friday: Squats 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Calf raises 6-8 sets 4-10 reps
Cardio


How does that look?


Not bad. My personal preference would be to do more than one exercise per body part. Like on Mondays you have a chest and a shoulder exercise. You could also do something like:

Chest - benchpress 3 X 10 and then dumbell flys 3 X 10
Shoulders - military Press 3 X 10 and then side raises 3 X 10

This gives you six sets of ten reps per body part.

You could add a little weight each set and on some days if you feel good add a third exercise per part.

Whatever you do, change it up at least every eight weeks.


Now, on the note of nutrition I run into problems. Now, I am not a big eater at all like these guys, on bodybuilder.com eating like 3000 calories. I alsounderstand the fact your suposed to bulk before you lift, and once you get mass, start cutting. However, What If I am just trying to go for a medium Build and am cutting all the time.

I don't like a lot of meats, and those that I do have to much fat in my opnion. I am thinking of taking the suggestion of getting like a Pro Crunch protien bar and eating it for lunch. I normally just eat cereal everyday. Nobody cooks around my house, and I try making sandwiches, but after awhile it just doesn't taste good, But cearl does. If there is something I can get prepackaged that I can eat that is low fat, high nutrients and doesn't take a lot of money, I would be interested. Any suggestions?

If you are not a "bodybuilder" don't worry about all that bulk and cut stuff. Just eat some good foods, and try for five or six small meals instead of three big meals. You can use protein bars or powders as replacements for some of the meals. Try oatmeal instead of cereal. I use Splenda as a sweetener, add a little cinnamon and some fat free skim milk, yumm yumm.

As you progress you will learn how your body responds to different foods and you can make your own adjustments depending on what your goals become. Remember this is a life long process. If you stop you will go back to your old ways and look. Take your time and continue to learn as much as you can.

Lean proteins: turkey, chicken, fish/tuna, lean beef cuts, egg whites. Also eat lots of veggies good carbs like oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat bread, and some pasta. Avoid sugar, white flour, and french fries!




Also, How much do Gyms cost to workout at, and do you think it is worth it for me to go to one? Right now I workout at my friends house, but sometimes he can't make it or is doing something else, so i can't lift, and try to do something. I was thinking I could get my own weight training things here at my home, but my parents are slobs and leave there stuff all over the house, they have attachment issues and can't get rid of anything. So, We have no room for anything. Maybe There is a way to make some makeshift things for the excersises. Any suggestions? Comments?

Gym costs vary so much depending on where you live, the stuff they offer, and the "social status" of the gym. I go to a plain old muscle head gym that has lots of weights and 24 hour access. It's cheap. There is a another gym close by that is the big social gathering place for people. It has 25 tread mills, bicycles, aerobics classes, pretty paint and carpet, limited access and cost four times as much as my gym. I go in to workout, not visit. I am in and out in 45 minutes.

You can do alot at home with a pair of dumbbell bars, some plates for them, and a regular bench you can make yourself. It doesn't take up much space and it's fairly inexpensive. You can do almost every exercise you have listed with dumbbells, including squats.

"Newbies" make really good progress when they start out. After about six months or so you will level out and strength and muscle gains (and fat loss) will slow down. That is a sign to tweak your workouts, change some things up, and maybe alter your eating. Don't get discouraged when that happens because it happens to everyone. You may even want to take a week or two off when that happens and then jump back into it.

Good luck and take a picture of yourself and take your measurements. Do that every four weeks or so and you will really appreciate your effort. Good luck!

[Waspe]

Cliff,

What do you think about this bar?

Optimum Nutrition Complete Protein Diet Bar Choc Mint 1 Bar

It would be used as a Lunch Bar, but I was wondering how it tasted? If you have tried it.

and this shake?

DYMA-LEAN 20 pouches Creamy Vanilla.

I was wondering how this tasted as well.

For the supplements I want to know if there is any health risks, and if it tastes good.

I recently have been making a meal plan to go along with my workout.
My meal plan goes as follows:

Breakfast:
3 Servings Of Quaker Apple Cinnamon
Calories 390 4.5g Fat 99g Carbs 36g protien

Lunch:
Optimum Nutrition Complete Protein Diet Bar Choc Mint
Calories 180 2.5g Fat 19g carbs 20g protien

Dinner:
sandwich with three slices of deli turkey and one half cup of lettuce on two slices of whole wheat bread.
calories 318 41g protien 26g carbs 8g fat


Snacks:
DYMA-LEAN Creamy Vanilla (probably used after workout, not sure if I need it yet(If I will be hungry))

Assorted vegetables

I am not worried about the redunancy, for the past year I have been eating the same thing everyday.


Any Suggestions?

Thank you for all your input and help so far

[Cliff Hargrave]

Cliff,

What do you think about this bar?

Optimum Nutrition Complete Protein Diet Bar Choc Mint 1 Bar

It would be used as a Lunch Bar, but I was wondering how it tasted? If you have tried it.

and this shake?

DYMA-LEAN 20 pouches Creamy Vanilla.

I was wondering how this tasted as well.

For the supplements I want to know if there is any health risks, and if it tastes good.

I haven't tried that Dyma-lean but I have had the Optimum bars. They are ok. Kind of dry and chewy but most of them are. The Dyma-lean is a meal replacement which means it contains protein and carbs. they are usually more expensive than just protein powders. As far as health risks if you stick to "food" supplements like protein bars and shakes then their shouldn't be any risks. Of course you should always consult your personal doctor (<-- my disclaimer).


I recently have been making a meal plan to go along with my workout.
My meal plan goes as follows:

Breakfast:
3 Servings Of Quaker Apple Cinnamon
Calories 390 4.5g Fat 99g Carbs 36g protien

Your math is wrong on this one. 1 gram of carbs and 1 gram of protein are both 4 calories each. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories. Your breakdown comes out to 580.5 calories. Check the label again.


Lunch:
Optimum Nutrition Complete Protein Diet Bar Choc Mint
Calories 180 2.5g Fat 19g carbs 20g protien

Dinner:
sandwich with three slices of deli turkey and one half cup of lettuce on two slices of whole wheat bread.
calories 318 41g protien 26g carbs 8g fat


Snacks:
DYMA-LEAN Creamy Vanilla (probably used after workout, not sure if I need it yet(If I will be hungry))

Assorted vegetables

I am not worried about the redunancy, for the past year I have been eating the same thing everyday.


Any Suggestions?

Thank you for all your input and help so far

The only thing I would suggest is eat some real food for lunch. Use the bar as a mid morning snack and the meal replacement drink as post workout. You need more calories than that if you want to lift and get good results.

Go to this site http://www.hussman.org/fitness/bmrcalc.htm and figure out your BMR and get a calorie range to work with. Unless you are a real small person it should be somewhere between 1500 and 2000.

[Waspe]

What about Molecular Nutrition Whey Fruity? Does that tase ok?
I think Dymatize ISO-90 is the best but I can't find it on DPS nutrition.com.

I am trying to find a protien shake that will actually be economically feasible, but still be low in Carbs and Fat.

I know I should eat something at lunch, but I really can't, Thats when I do my homework, and at school the lunch food is deadly. So I normally go to the library and do my homework, and technically I am not suposed to eat there. I am thinking maybe I can add on someother place.

[Cliff Hargrave]

What about Molecular Nutrition Whey Fruity? Does that tase ok?
I think Dymatize ISO-90 is the best but I can't find it on DPS nutrition.com.

I am trying to find a protien shake that will actually be economically feasible, but still be low in Carbs and Fat.
I haven't tasted everything out there!

Go for a straight whey powder and stay away from the full meal replacement powders. Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Protein comes out to about .65 cents for a double scoop if you buy it buy 5 pounds. MRPs are about $2 each. If you want to add carbs then add a cup of fat free milk, some oatmeal, or fruit with it.



I know I should eat something at lunch, but I really can't, Thats when I do my homework, and at school the lunch food is deadly. So I normally go to the library and do my homework, and technically I am not suposed to eat there. I am thinking maybe I can add on someother place.

Well, I guess you could try to eat something immediately after school. Good luck........

So what is your BMR?

[Waspe]

it is 1972 - 2282.

For Fat loss 1580- 2170

[Cliff Hargrave]

it is 1972 - 2282.

For Fat loss 1580- 2170

So try to shoot for 1800 a day (which is in the middle of your fat loss range). It doesn't have to be perfect, just try to stay in the range. You may need to tweak it a little as the weeks go by depending on your progress. Pay more attention to measurements than to what the scale says since you are going to be lifting.

[Waspe]

I hardly ever go on the scale.

[Waspe]

Cliff, do you know any chain of stores that has the Optimum Nutrition things, just so I don't buy it on DPS and find out I don't like any of it?