View Full Version : Which Kwan is your style of TKD from?
Just curious to see what more people are studying these days. And, actually, I'm also curious to see how many people actually know this about their art.
sidekick
05-07-2004, 10:26
My lineage: Kyo Yoon Lee > Kyu In Baik (Deceased) > In Hui Won > Me
Mike Dunn
silverhand
05-08-2004, 08:07
My linage = Hwang Kee, founder of the Moo Duk Kwan(Deceased) > Sok Ho Kang > Charles Raines > Me
BUDO BULLDOG
05-08-2004, 08:25
Hello,
Past: Moo Duk Kwan
Today: Mu Duk Kwon with the same forms but chambers held high, similar to a boxing hand position. Blocks are preformed with the double bone side not the single bone side of the arm.
Joint locks, throws, chokes and groundwork are emphasized equally to stand up percussion techniques.
Still loving it and learning it after 21 years.
Ed Barton
An Old American TKD MDK
My lineage,
Gen. Choi & Nam Tae Hi > Kim Bo Kyum > Charles Bateman > Me!
TAEKWON!
Michael Bateman
Kumsul Player
05-13-2004, 08:37
Jidokwan lineage (with some mixed Chungdokwan)....
Chun, Il-sup -> Park, Kyoung-ho -> Me -> future generation
David4516
06-07-2004, 14:29
Chung Do Kwon
Past: Chang Do Kwan, Ildokwan & Moo Duk Kwan
Chang Do Kwan -Under Master Oliver Lee East Treamont School
Moo Duk Kwan -Under Tiger Kim Tiger Kim Academy
Ildokwan-Under Master Andy Davies UK
kodanjaclay
06-14-2004, 11:04
I have two distinct lineages:
ChungDoKwan - Master Lim=>Park, Hae Man=>Um, Un Kyu=>Lee, Won Kuk
(I also received teaching from Master Bowman who obtained his yuk dan from Lee, Won Kuk.)
Moo Duk Kwan [Tang Soo Do]-Pak, Ho Sik =>Lee, Hon In=>Lee, Pal Young=>Cha, Yong So=>Hong, Jong Soo=>Hwang, Kee=>Yang, Ku Chin
These days I am not particularly active in Taekwondo. I prefer the Tang Soo Do approach, as I feel that that method of execution is better rooted in the principles of No Ja, and that really speaks to me.
spyder man
06-22-2004, 14:12
I am aware that my style of Taekwondo is Moo Duk Kwan, but I'm not so sure about the differences of styles. Could someone please explain what makes one kwan different from another? :confused:
Spider Man,
Are you familiar with the history of TKD, the merging of the kwans, ect.
If so, Moo Duk Kwan was an original Tang Soo Do gym. When several of the original kwans merged (1955) to form Taekwon-Do, the Moo Duk Kwan was devided. Some practitioners stayed with their Tang Soo Do Grandmaster while others opted for the TKD merger.
Tang Soo Do is literally Japanese Karate-Do...same patterns and all...often still with Japanese names!
To the best of my research the Moo Duk Kwan is the only kwan devided along these lines. The others are either TKD or TSD, but the Moo Duk Kwan style has been devided.
P.S. All the kwans were technically absorbed by the Kukkiwon and Kido Federation. Now they are nothing more than a number or worse! Chung Do Kwan still exists in Korea but as a social society. Some of the original kwans are still in existence, however they are now located in other countries.
TAEKWON!
Spookey
P.S. This is like the quick "Idiots Guide" translation...if you would care for greater detail feel free to email me at michael@batemantkd.com
Chang Moo Kwan:
Nam Suk lee, Mi Yung Kim, Bill Buckley, Me
blessed_samurai
07-03-2004, 07:09
Han Moo Kwan 96-00
Ji Do Kwan 00-04
my Lineage > Master Kang Ik Mu & Grand Master Park Bu Kwang > Frank Santarose > me
mike booth
10-07-2004, 20:48
My Grandmaster, Jon Chung Kim, Allentown, PA, trained in Moo Duk Kwan. He has remained loyal to his sahbumnim, earning his 8th degree in Moo Duk Kwan, before returning to Korea for his Kukkiwon promotion. GM Kim did join Kukkiwon, in high school, with his GM's blessing, as a career move. (GM Kim was a war orphan, with very little future in Korea.) GM Kim went on to win a college scholarship, through Kukkiwon, as did his older brother. He has always supported Kukkiwon, but as the last of the 1st generation Korean masters in the US, I have noticed he staunchly adheres to a lot of Moo Duk Kwon training and philosophy, as did his late brother. He gets away with it, but Kukkiwon has "attached" a young, Korean assistant to him. LOL, TKD as I once knew it is a thing of the past.
kodanjaclay
10-10-2004, 11:14
Mike,
I would not say he is the last. Master Son, Duk Son still teaches in NYC. He was the 2nd president of the ChungDoKwan.
Wlerp,
Were you passed along the old Chuan-fa forms from the Chang Moo Kwan such as Doju San, Chang Kwon, Dan Kwon, Tai Jo Kwon, etc?
Robert McLain
Ji Do Kwan lineage for me is,
Gay Byun Yung (ji do kwan founder)> Chong Gil Hong > Choon Mo Yang > Me
Jidokwan
11-29-2004, 09:29
Jidokwan Taekwondo - for those who don't know - Get knocked down 9 times, get up 10!
dwolf868
01-03-2005, 16:07
I currently practice Moo du kwan, but would be interested in learning more about actual technical differences between the kwans. Does anyone here trained in different kwans and what differences are there in technique?
jakmak52
01-03-2005, 20:50
Chang Hon (also called Chang Hun, Chang 'On or Chon-Ji) forms developed by General Choi Hong Hi. I'm surprised they weren't listed in the original poll.
DragonMind
01-04-2005, 14:51
Chang Hon (also called Chang Hun, Chang 'On or Chon-Ji) forms developed by General Choi Hong Hi. I'm surprised they weren't listed in the original poll.
Those are the forms (hyungs) but Choi's kwan was Oh Do Kwan.
My Jidokwan line as far as I know it
Lee Jong-Woo -> Lee Tek-Myung -> Park Jong-Man (Matti Heikkinen)->Me
Jared Sutton
02-24-2005, 17:09
I study Oh Do Kwan under 8th Dan Charles Willis. It has a bit of Hapkido thrown in though. Most people don't recognize the fact that General Choi actually pushed all of the different Kwans into the one Tae Kwon Do though.
Dear Sir,
I am inquiring as to whether you are receiving instruction from an Oh Do Kwan instructor or a Chang Hon instructor. Remember Oh Do Kwan is Chang Hon however all Chang Hon is not Oh Do Kwan.
There was but one Oh Do Kwan and there are not many Americans that are actually Oh Do Kwan certified instructors. Bare in mind that the Oh Do Kwan was a Korean Military kwan and was not available to civilians!
TAEKWON!
Spookey
J_eremiah
07-29-2005, 23:18
Chung Do Kwon
keiOffice
07-30-2005, 23:05
i take WTF TKD, Grand Master Moo Yong Yun 9th Dan, ummm... not sure were that fits in! Help?
Jason T Gatts
07-31-2005, 07:24
Chang Moo Kwan:
Nam Suk lee, Mi Yung Kim, Bill Buckley, Me
This is my lineage as well.
Rick Fine
08-02-2005, 17:09
GM Yoon Byung In (YMCA Kwonbup Dept.) > GMs Lee Nam Sok (Chang Moo Kwan), Park Chull Hee (Kang Duk Won), & Hong Jong Pyo (Hung Moo Kwan) > GM Kim Soo (Chayon-Ryu) > me
ipscshooter
08-02-2005, 21:54
Rick: I had a very good friend who was a 2nd Dan under GM Kim Soo. He studied at the Downtown Houston location back in the 70's and early 80's, I believe. He died in a plane crash a number of years ago. GM Kim Soo was a very positive influence on his life. His picture is on the Kim Soo web page, as "world's highest flying sidekick", taken while he was skydiving. The guy had some cool hobbies... His approach to life had a huge influence on my progress in TKD.
As I understand it, my lineage is:
Gen. Choi ==> GM Van Binh ==> Charles Morris ==> Me.
Rick Fine
08-03-2005, 05:48
Scott, I'm glad to hear from an old friend of Bill Fincher's. GM Kim used to talk about Bill quite a bit, and he's sorely missed. Coincidentally, I wrote the brief obituary that accompanies the photo you mentioned:
world's highest flying side kick (http://www.kimsookarate.com/gallery-present/paraKick.htm)
Best wishes,
Rick
world's highest flying side kick
That's seriously pretty cool.
From what I can gather, the GM I study under is affiliated with Yun Moo Kwan although when I research this I find that this particular Kwan ceased to exist during the Korean War. I believe his instructor kept it active even though the official gym may have been absorbed by the Ji Do Kwan. At least that's what I have been able to find out. I wonder how important this really is considering how diluted TKD has become, at least under the WTF. If anyone has any insight on Yun Moo Kwan existence/demise please let me know. Thanks!
KD Tiger
08-04-2005, 09:39
Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan.
We were never affiliated with ITF or WTF and as far as I understand we were an independent school.
My Dan certificate has my teachers W.M.A.F ID number which might stand for World Martial Arts Federation but I'm not sure. If it is it could be Danny Lane's organization but at the time I didn't ask questions. My Gup certificates do not have an ID number on them. We also practiced Tang Soo Do Hyung instead of ITF or WTF forms.
Dave
I simply do not know. I have never been asked. My lineage includes Grand Master H. U. Lee of the ATA, my current instructor Grand Master Jack Pierce is former Tang Soo Do (military in Korea) I know one side would be Oh Do Kwan (the General) but the other side's what's getting me. I'm going to sit with GM Pierce and figure this out. :toast:
Dear Sir,
Regarding Taekwon-Do and its kwans...being of the H.U. Lee lineage would make you either Chung Do Kwan or Oh Do Kwan. Presumably Chung Do Kwan, I believe, as this is the original kwan of H.U. Lee to my understanding.
Tang Soo Do is a bit tricky as well...most of the same kwans we associate with Taekwon-Do originally called what they taught Tang Soo Do. This includes the Chung Do Kwan...you might want to ask you instructor!
Taekwon!
SpooKeY
Dear Sir,
Regarding Taekwon-Do and its kwans...being of the H.U. Lee lineage would make you either Chung Do Kwan or Oh Do Kwan. Presumably Chung Do Kwan, I believe, as this is the original kwan of H.U. Lee to my understanding.
Tang Soo Do is a bit tricky as well...most of the same kwans we associate with Taekwon-Do originally called what they taught Tang Soo Do. This includes the Chung Do Kwan...you might want to ask you instructor!
Taekwon!
SpooKeY
Thank you for the info!
I will speak with him. :toast: Is not EGM H. U. Lee, directly under the greneral? May I ask about the other branch, as of whom? I may need to read some of his history to get that answer. I know he was originaly trained in China, but by who?
Dear Sir,
From all I have read (yes you made me look) I cannot locate any text that indicated the lineage of H.U. Lee as being specifically Chung Do Kwan, however I have found plenty to state that he held a BB prior to the opening of the Oh Do Kwan!
All the ATA websites I have located indicate that Mr. H.U. Lee received his BB in 1953 or 1954. Several of them do state that he did learn the Chang Hon Hyungs from General Choi. Please bare in mind that General Choi was over the Chung Do Kwan for quite some time. Also, several of the premiere stars of the Oh Do Kwan and later the ITF were originally from the Chung Do Kwan. Two major contributors to the Chang Hon Hyungs were from the first class of BB promoted by the Chung Do Kwan. Specifically Nam Tae Hi and Han Cha Kyo!
TAEKWON!
SPookeY
Again, thanks for the info. I'm cracking open my Philosophy and Tradition volume of "the Way" it should have a good chunck of his history in it.
Here is a post from another discussion group I'm a part of, I need to keep the Grand Master's name out of it, but it's some great history. Enjoy.
<<Grand Master Hwang and I discussed it several months back. My
understanding is that he was the #2 man in ITF under General Choi and
the President of ATA when it was a NGB (National Governing Body) under
the ITF umbrella. >>
Guh Kang is a typo from GM CHO Hee Il's book "Man of Contrasts". That
photo you have up on your webpage is from GM Cho's book. the boy in
the right side photo is GM Cho's son Jacob.
His name is GM KANG Suh Chong, who was in the first group of 1st Dans
promoted by GM LEE Won Kuk at the Chung Do Kwan. He founded his own
kwan, the Kuk Mu Kwan during the 1950's, which was based in Inchon. GM
Kang taught Taekwondo at the UDT school in Inchon, and was EGM LEE
Haeng Ung's original teacher. Inchon, which is the port city where
General MacArthur landed during the Korean War, was a place with a lot
of North Korean refugees. EGM H. U. Lee, who was born in Manchuria and grew
up in the North, was one of those refugees and ended up learning from
GM Kang.
GM Kang was best friends and training partner with GM SON Duk Sung,
who served as Chung Do Kwan Jang from 1952-59. When GM Son was removed
as head of the Chung Do Kwan, he joined the Kuk Mu Kwan that was run
by his friend GM Kang. He eventually moved to New York City and
founded his own World Taekwondo Association.
In the late 50's, I want to say 1959, EGM Lee and some of his
classmates under GM Kang (GM LEE Tae Sung) got a job at Osan AFB, and
while there, they opened up the Osan Chung Do Kwan. It was there that
EGM Lee met Rick Reed (I think that is his name), who sponsored EGM
Lee to the US.
Because GM Kang was teaching ROK military personnel at the ROK Navy
UDT school, his dojang and organization fell under the jurisdiction of
the Oh Do Kwan, which was populated with many of his classmates and
juniors from the Chung Do Kwan. When General Choi formed his own
private International Taekwon-Do Federation subsequent to his removal
as KTA president, GM Kang joined him.
EGM Lee stayed with the Chung Do Kwan, and when GM UHM Woon Kyu
succeeded GM Son as Chung Do Kwan Jang, he became EGM Lee's teacher.
It is the custom in Korean Martial Arts to consider the head of your
organization to be your teacher, even though you may never had taken a
single lesson from him. The Kwan Jang is still your Kwan Jang, and
hence your teacher.
GM SON Duk Sung and General Choi did not enjoy a positive
relationship, and so when GM Kang joined General Choi's ITF, it caused
the relationship between GM Son and GM Kang to go bad. GM Son felt
betrayed by GM Kang, and they have not been on good terms since.
GM Kang moved to the US in the late 1960's, and as the senior ITF
person in the US at the time, he was selected to head the ATA when it
was founded. Most of the members of the ATA at that time were students
of his under the Kuk Mu Kwan. This includes practitioners such as GM
CHO Hee Il (who spent time growing up in Inchon), Dr. He Young Kim (a
Kuk Mu Kwan 5th Dan), GM LEE Kwan Sung (the person who purchased the
Osan Chung Do Kwan from EGM Lee and eventually ended up in Kentucky as
the USTU Kentucky state president) and others.
GM Kang went his own way and formed his own organization, the North
American Taekwondo Association, or something like that, and EGM Lee
became the new President of the ATA. At some point, the ITF created an
NGB, the USTF.The ATA I believe was never the official ITF NGB in the
US, because I don't think it was that organized back then.
Anyway, that is why the ATA was an ITF based organization back then,
because GM Kang and his students, including EGM Lee, were ITF members.
That's who Guh Kang is, and that's his role in the ATA.
Mr. H,
So then (merely based on your previous post) it is fair to say that the primary lineage is Kuk Mu Kwan which is itself of the Chung Do Kwan line!
TAEKWON!
SpooKeY
samurai_24
09-30-2005, 10:33
Song Moo Kwan :bow:
I have trained in two primary lineages. Currently in a Moo Duk Kwan school (which still uses some remnant Chan Hong forms from the school´s own transitions; and Oh Do Kwan.
TCBA_Joe
10-09-2005, 00:00
mool sul kwan
My local TKD Club is Chung Do Kwan (which I never joined and decided to take Ju Jutsu instead) , but follows the WTF sylabus/style.
Does this apply to all Chung Do Kwan Schools ?
Dear Sir,
Primarily this will be dictated by the generation of your teachers instruction. Many instructor of Chung Do Kwan Taekwon-Do will adhere to the Chang Hon system if they are from the period in time when the Oh Do Kwan and Chung Do Kwan were sister kwans.
On the same note, the newer generations will quite often adopt the Kukkiwon style Hyungs (either Pal-Gwe or Tae-Geuk depending on the generation of the instructor).
The Chung Do Kwan has been fortunate enough to maintain there individual status as a kwan in Korea without being merely recognized as a number at the Kukkiwon. However, this generally takes place under the guise of being a social club.
TAEKWON!
SPooKeY
toryander
01-31-2006, 11:05
Heck, I don't know. But it's been good for me anyway.
Jonathan Randall
02-06-2006, 02:15
Moo Duk Kwan
My TKD lineage:
1st dan in Jidokwan - Yun Kwei-byung - Choi Bong-young - Sean Owen - me
2nd dan in Songmukwan - Ro Byung-jik - Yu Yong-kyu - me
3rd dan in Odokwan - Choi Hong-hi - Yoon Tai - me
Even though I'm most removed from the founder in Jidokwan, I still consider that to be my roots, so I voted Jidokwan. Of course, I could also follow my Jidokwan lineage back to Mabuni Kenwa and Toyama Kanken and my Songmukwan and Odokwan lineage back to Funakoshi. Also, I can't exclude the influence of Mudukwan from my best friend and training partner in college.
Jidokwan Taekwondo - for those who don't know - Get knocked down 9 times, get up 10!
Kind of the "weables wobble but they don't fall down" school of TKD. :p
TKDchick
03-31-2006, 10:10
Chung Do Kwan
anyone know any schools in NYC?
anyone know any schools in NYC?
This search took me .11 seconds. Click Here (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=martial+arts+schools+in+NYC&btnG=Google+Search)
I thought you were more into boxing?
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15508
Rev. Rob
05-22-2006, 11:32
Youn Wha Ryu is an advanced fighting system from a wide range of martial arts. Youn Wha Ryu’s complexity calls for foundational martial arts training before it can be fully understood. Grandmaster Han decided to use traditional Tae Kwon Do as the foundation of teaching Youn Wha Ryu, as Tae Kwon Do can be learned by almost everyone. Training in the traditional Tae Kwon Do that Grandmaster Han teaches enables his students to build on their own strengths gain confidence while learning to overcome any physical and/or mental obstacles.
I honestly have no idea. I am going to ask my instructor tommorrow evening.
I don't exactly know my lineage. But the style I currently study is Chan Hun, as my teacher has told me, the style that General Choi founded the martial art as in 1955.
DragonMind
06-02-2006, 10:35
I don't exactly know my lineage. But the style I currently study is Chan Hun, as my teacher has told me, the style that General Choi founded the martial art as in 1955.
Actually, Gen. Choi founded Oh Do Kwan. Chang Hon refers to the set of hyungs that start with Chon-Ji.
Actually, Gen. Choi founded Oh Do Kwan. Chang Hon refers to the set of hyungs that start with Chon-Ji.
Which according to my teachers and the ITF website is the style General Choi practiced/created. Unless it was just the 24 patterns based on the 24 hours that he created.
DragonMind
06-03-2006, 18:14
Which according to my teachers and the ITF website is the style General Choi practiced/created. Unless it was just the 24 patterns based on the 24 hours that he created.
Maybe we're just crossing wires here. Gen. Choi, Hong Hi and Nam, Tae Hi founded the Oh Do Kwan. This would be considered his "style" of TKD. The Ch'ang Hon are the set of 24/25 hyungs that were created and promoted under the governance of the ITF. I took a look at the ITF site and don't see what you're referring to. Would you provide a link so I can see what you're describing? There's a pretty decent article on Wiki that talks about the 5 original TSD kwans and the second generation kwans that helped create the TKD originally headed by Gen. Choi before his split with the Korean govt. and continued in Canada as the ITF.
Yes, yes, yes. Our wires definitely twisted. >.<
I understand now, I was confused as to what was truly his style. Sorry for the mix-up.
DragonMind
06-04-2006, 18:13
Yes, yes, yes. Our wires definitely twisted. >.<
I understand now, I was confused as to what was truly his style. Sorry for the mix-up.
Not a problem, glad we could clear it up.
My lineage is Yon Mu Kwan
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