Poekelon?

[Erik]

Has anyone heard of this system? I believe it's Indonesian or Malaysian, somehow similar to penjak-silat, but I know very little about it.

There's a school in or near Portland, OR.

I'm curious to learn more.

[Alex Fowler]

Man I work at K-Mart, people are buying those friggin cards all the time.


;)

[Jeff Burger]

Ha ha good one.

Jeff

[Oniw17]

Man I work at K-Mart, people are buying those friggin cards all the time.
haha, that's good

6/04.............lol oops

[Chrono]

Man I work at K-Mart, people are buying those friggin cards all the time.

That's actually what I thought of when I saw the subject title.

By the way, it must get really busy working at K-Mart. You're a cashier, right?

[DatuSadiq]

Poekolan is a system of Silat that is headed by Pendekar Barbara Niggel. Pendekar was a student of Willie Wetzel, a popular instructor in Pennsylvania. There are several schools under Pendekar Niggel's leadership.

The beginning aspect of the system looks similar in some aspects to Ju Jutsu in that there is a lot of self-defense that has similar throws, takedowns, ect. My advice is to see it for yourself.

Peace & Blessings!

[Erik]

Hi Darrell,

Thanks for your serious response. My cousin does poekelon and he and I do mini-MMA matches when he or I visit.

His club is, well, somewhat curious, to put it politely.

Could you tell me more of the culture and technique set?

Thanks heaps.

-E

[Chrono]

Thanks for your serious response.

You mean ours were serious? :D

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next month where they will be teaching penjak(sp?) silat. You think there's any similarity?

[bustr]

Poekoelan is a type of Kaffir martial art from Indonesia. It has Shaolin, Hindu and Dutch influences. The poekoelan I've seen is a stripped down form that looks like it was distilled in Bare knuckle matches. In essence it looks like old bare-knuckle pugilism with some low Savate kicks, some Shaolin animal techniques and and some peculiar elbow and knee moves that might be related to Muay Boran.

[Erik]

I meant Darrell's was serious, you goofball. :laugh: :laugh:

Mike & Darrell - have you heard of the poekoelan that has several animal styles in it? And drunken-style?

The club in Portland is very... curious. And very femi-dominant. It's almost like a cult (from how it looks on the outside - I shouldn't judge).

[DatuSadiq]

I know that Barbara Niggel was one of the top fighters on the East Coast at a time when women had to get busy against men sometimes. She was also famous for her forms. Nobody was familiar with Kuntao then.

I know that after their initial part of the system, students are then introduced to various animal systems such as Monkey, Tiger, ect.

In seeing their basic information, it looked like a Jiu Jitsu type of system, but there are many systems of Pencak Silat that emphasize joint breaks, arm breaks, ect.

Chrono:

Where is the Pencak Silat seminar that you will be attending? I am scheduled to teach at a Pencak Silat Camp in California. Who is teaching? and what style of Silat will be taught?

[Chrono]

Chrono:

Where is the Pencak Silat seminar that you will be attending? I am scheduled to teach at a Pencak Silat Camp in California. Who is teaching? and what style of Silat will be taught?

I'll be attending a seminar called Warrior's Weekend in Columbia, South Carolina on June 10 - 12. It will be taught by Guru J. Miller. It says the style is Penjak Silat El-Amen. I hope that makes sense.

[Erik]

Hi Darrell - Where and when in California? Please say N. Cal. as I'm most curious about this.

And what kind of fighting was Barbara Niggel known for? Did she do open kickboxing, MMA, or specific tourneys within the Pencak Silat community?

[Oniw17]

That sounds pretty tight. You said it was like ju-jitsu, so I'll assume that there are strikes and throws, and you said there are joint locks/breaks. Are there any holds? What's the stance like? What is the main focus of the art, or does it depend on the teacher?

[bustr]

Erik

Here is John Malterer's site. He gives a little background information on it. I'd be careful about ordering anything from his site though. Several people have told me they sent in money orders and never got the merchandise.

http://www2.1st.net/kingdrgn/

[DatuSadiq]

Erik:

I know that the camp will be in the Valley, I guess near Burbank or something. I will be confirming the address with the Bapak soon.
The dates are the second weekend in June. If you wish to attend, I can probably clear with Bapak.

If I am not mistaken, Pendekar Niggel did both point fighting and some full contact fighting. When she fought, MMA did not have the tourneys like today.

Chrono:

Penjak Silat El-Amen

I believe that I have heard that name. Let me make a phone call and check on it. If I can save you a wasted seminar, I will.

Oniw17:

Yes, it contained all that you said. It was quite a while ago, but the stances were not that different. Nothing stands out that I can remember. I believe that the first aspect of the system was strictly self-defense.

[Oniw17]

I've done some reading online, and plan to visit one of the 2 schools in my area for Poekoelan...Here are some of the points I've noticed:

I think you take "Cun Tao" for the first 18 weeks,then there are 4 animal forms, each with 3 variations, there are many different stances, It's like a Kung Fu/Pentjak Silat hybrid. At each level of training the student makes a <I forget the word> based on their own fighting style, that bonds them to that fighting style. Meditation is a very important part of the style as is believing in a higher power. The four animals are Monkey, Tiger, Snake, and Crane. I think that laterin the training, the Indonesian Dragon's form is learned. I think that's all right.

[poekoelan1320]

The club in Portland is very... curious. And very femi-dominant. It's almost like a cult (from how it looks on the outside - I shouldn't judge).

can you be more specific about the school you went to? Is it the one on 43rd or the one in St. Johns ???

Thanks

[Erik]

Sorry, I don't know my way around Portland well enough to remember which street or neighborhood it is in.

It's called One With Heart and as you walk in there is a desk with some gear for sale on the left side (including some perfect-fitting MMA gloves that I regret not having purchased).

There are a bunch of rooms with some weight-lifting equipment. As you walk forward from the entryway, there is a hallway with a closet on the right and a hardwood floored room on the left which contains a variety of MA gear, including spears, swords, and various hanging bags and the like (as I remember it, at least).

The culture of this place (maybe all Poekelon clubs?) was such that the people behind the desk seemed quite comfortable with each other and with being there, as if it were a family outfit and they are all family. They were quite friendly, as well.

Does this help?

[poekoelan1320]

Erik,
Thanks for your quick response. Yes it does help, when I first read your post about the school I thought you were refering to the one in St. Johns which is the one I go to. "One with Heart" I have not yet been to but hope to visit it soon although we all train together often.

We strive to make everyone feel like family but, as the way with people some get the Idea that we are cultish. I am sure to some one who isn't familiar with this system it would seem that way, heck it seemed that way to me at first, but as I got to know the people and started to understand and asked alot of questions I became aware that it is all about respect.

I think the great thing about Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen is that more women take this martial art then most (at least this is what I have been told). If you come up to portland oregon again please stop by the Tulen Center in
St. Johns. We would love to see ya. Here is the Address & Phone Number

Tulen Center for Martial Arts and Wellness
8641 N. Lombard St.
Portland, OR 97203

503-283-1313

If I can answer any questions for you I would be happy to help all I can. I don't know a whole lot as I have just passed my speed through and am now a white sash but I will do what I can.

Deepest Respect,
Angel Schmeer

[redwolf139]

My friend is teaching Poekoelan Tjimindie to me. I am in 1st phase, and he is in 2nd phase. He put a thread on this website, search poekoelan tjimindie and look for the history and emmence effectiveness of poekoelan tjimindie pt.1. pt.2 is on the same thread.

[Erik]

Hi Angel,

Great answers. Yes, I got the strong sense it was some sort of femi-dominated cult but that there must be more to it than that.

I did not want to be the first one to use those words in the thread as I am trying to understand it a little more as opposed to insult it.

Why so many women? Not a bad thing, I'm just wondering, though.

Please tell me more.

Thanks,

-E

PS - Next time in Portland may be Thanksgiving. It'll be a while....

[GodofGamblers]

i'm very interested in this "poekoelan". i'm indonesian and i've never heard of it. is it something like "kempo", an art that was created in the states? as far as i know, it is not taught anywhere in indonesia.

"Poekoelan", or rather "pukulan" in indonesian means "punch" or "fist". is it all hand strikes?

any info would be appreciated. this is most curious.

(erik, i sent you a PM with the results of my enquiries.)

K

[redwolf139]

short history and emmence effectiveness of poekoelan tjimindie, search it.

or just poekoelan.

[GodofGamblers]

red wolf, i just read this on the link that you recommended:

"One of the monks, Huang Wu Wen, brought this art from the Wu-Tang Temple, which he called the Original Ultimate Fist, with him to Indonesia. In Indonesia, Pak Serak the wise one, was the shaman of the Badui people in the 19th century. He had only the use of one arm and one leg on opposite sides of his body! Serak created a fighting art which bears his name, and he was extremely formidable in actual combat despite his handicap!
Mas Djut was Serak's friend and training partner who learned Serak's complete art. After Pak's death, Mas Djut became a nomadic wanderer who traveled throughout Asia periodically for many years observing and learning various fighting arts!

Huang thought he had the ultimate art until he ran into Mas Djut! Mas Djut shocked Huang with his lower body leg kicking art. Mas Djut was impressed when Huang got around his lower body art and broke thru Djut's upper body guard! Both masters became great friends and practiced together for 3 years merging their fighting methods into a new eclectic art named Tjimindie after the village in Java where they first formulated their new combined art!

Willy Wetzel was a student of Huang. He came to America in 1956 and opened his school in 1960. I started classes in 1961, and am a 3rd generation student!

About 30 years ago, the Indonesian government undertook a survey to document the various fighting arts throughout the islands. They found approximately 200 various Tjimindie styles! If someone says they know Tjimindie, okay which one? Each Tjimindie style will have one or more names preceding or succeding it in order to identify which Tjimindie style it is!"

there are literally thousands of styles of silat in Java. the MA are not regimented the way they are in japan.

the part about the Badui people is very interesting. the Badui are sort of like "Amish". they don't use technology and have their own language and ways. there are 'inner Badui' and 'outer Badui'. no one has ever contacted the inner badui. little is known about them; they refuse to mix with any outsiders for any reason.

you can speak to the outer badui and they are weeeeeiirrrd people. completely in their own world of magic and supersticion. if you give them some ciggies, they will talk to you (though i personally have never met them).

so learning from a Badui is bit unusual, but not impossible (if you are willing to buy a lot of ciggies he he).

i will look into this; thanks for the info, redwolf.

K

[GodofGamblers]

i found this interesting link:

http://www.desert-dragons.com/ddsite/AboutPTT.html

in fact, poekoelan was invented by a dutchman from silat and is taught abroad (i.e. outside indonesia). as far as i know, it is not taught here, but i will check into it. it looks interesting. one interesting thing is that wetzel claims that kwan ying helped him discover it! that's interesting as kwan ying is a chinese goddess... nothing to do with indonesia at all, unless he met with indonesian buddhists.

erik, there is a description of the forms in that link, though it is a bit vague. looks like it would be tough to spar against. best to shoot for the legs right away and go into grappling mode.

[bustr]

Here's a new Yahoo group on the subject.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pukulan_Tjiminde_Malay

[Erik]

Erik, there is a description of the forms in that link, though it is a bit vague. looks like it would be tough to spar against. best to shoot for the legs right away and go into grappling mode.That's what I do but my cousin is pretty smart and has learned to keep his distance. If I grab a sleeve to get into judo-range, I risk getting my wrists torqued.

The take-downs tend to be kinda rough. He really makes me work on my closing-to-take-down game, which is great, if very difficult.

Next time, we're putting on some light boxing gloves, Muay Thai leggings, and going full contact. He gets in 1,001 little tiny jabs when I shoot for legs but it's usually to the top of my head where it's skull-hard.

Both of us are too polite to each other (unlike anyone else in the family!) to say "well I hit you 10 times" "but it wasn't hard" "but I still got you" "but it wouldn't be enough for real" "but if it were for real, I'd hit harder" and so on. I know we're both thinking it but we don't say this as it is a totally absurd argument.

Thanks for all your research! I really appreciate it - and the PM, as well!

:D

--E

[GodofGamblers]

my pleasure. it's a learning experience for me too. the interesting thing is that it seems to be more interesting than a lot of the homegrown indonesian arts.

the one thing where i think indo arts have a leg up on the japanese ones is int the katas ("Jurus" in indonsian).

i had a brief stint with Silat and i hate katas... but in Silat each Jurus actually has two ways of doing it: one attacking and one defending. in other words, you can go through the jurus as the attacker one time, then as the defender the next. you can do it alone or with a partner. now imagine a kata defending where instead of waving your arms around in the air you are blocking REAL punches and REAL kicks to the head, stomach, groin; suddenly, the dry, boring katas are not so boring any more!

i think this is one big advantage of silat. i wonder if 'poekoelan' has retained this basic of silat.