MA Myths

[The Nephilim]

After reading this thread http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5931 about registering yourself as a black belt, I wondered if there are any other myths surrounding MA in general.

The main ones of the ninja... dissapearing in a flash and smoke. Lycanthropy and walk on water are all myths. But what about the rest of the MA world. What have you heard that makes you chuckle?

[Paul B]

Jeesh!! I don't think there's enough space in here!!:laugh:

I find the "dodging bullets" myth pretty hilarious though!

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Chrono]

I find the "dodging bullets" myth pretty hilarious though!


This may be one of the most popular myths in martial arts, especially reguarding ninja. I've also heard a myth about ninja being able to take bullets and still live.

Jon

[Paul B]

LOL- yep, I've heard that one,too!! I was thinking along the lines of "dodging" ala "Remo Williams"!!:laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[The Nephilim]

Well I heard one of a guy that had really rock hard stomach muscles that he could stop bullets. If it was true, then it would be great. Unless you was a terrible shot and hit him in the chest. :D

[Paul B]

LOL! Did he wear a red cape and blue bodysuit with a big "S" logo on the front? :laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[The Nephilim]

dunno. Would be good to test someones claim to that.

Maybe work it up to a .50 rifle or a 7.62 machine gun.

But then, if a bomb exploded nearby, his stomach muscles would survive intact hehehe

[Paul B]

O.K. seriously,now..In regards to "strong stomachs", in February our school hosted a Chinese Martial Arts group, in one of their demonstrations, one of the Chi-Gung guys was hit repeatedly in the stomach with a sword! Before the actual "hitting" part, one of the other guys stuck 3 pencils in the performers belt, and sliced them in half , although they looked jagged.(I say good control), after that, he then proceeded to "whack" the other guy with the sword in the stomach, miraculously sustaining no damage, just a few red marks, I have often wondered if I had brought my own shinken or live sword(which is razor sharp,by the way), if the results would have been the same! Hmmmm.....this might be how rumors get started....

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[The Nephilim]

True. Shame we can not seperate Ashida Kim from his ego. Now that would be a myth buster.

[The Nephilim]

This may be one of the most popular myths in martial arts, especially reguarding ninja. I've also heard a myth about ninja being able to take bullets and still live.

Jon


Ooooh that is so true. That is why when you are faced with a ninja your gun just says "Click" instead of "Bang!". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :p

[Cliff Hargrave]

....I wondered if there are any other myths surrounding MA in general.

I tried to resist posting here, I really did...........



Myths, hhhmmmm, how about:

Chi
Ki
Qi
Combat Ki
Dim Mak
Death touches
Pressure Point knock outs
No touch knock outs
Kiai knock outs
Seeing "auras"
Pulling hearts out of chests

and my favorite.......being too deadly to spar!

How about those for a start?

[The Nephilim]

What about having your hands as deadly weapons? Walk around with them in holsters do they?

[Andrew Green]

Dragon Ball Z is "real" martial arts seems to be a more recent one...

Asian Martial arts are far superior to anything else anywhere...

Combat sports would suffer a quick and deadly defeat at the hands of "Tiger Claw" technique in a REAL fight...

People that train in a sport form (BJJ, Submission, boxing, mma, etc) are forbidden by the laws of the universe to use techniques not allowed in there given sport.

There is nothing of value in traditional martial arts.

Ninja Penguins are anything less then the supreme Grandmaster of all things Martial arts. :D

[Paul B]

LOL!---I bow to you, Great Grandmaster Penguin!!!

And to you, Cliff....absolutely priceless!! :laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[The Nephilim]

It seems that the myths are better than reality lol :laugh:

[jmd161]

I tried to resist posting here, I really did...........



Myths, hhhmmmm, how about:

Chi
Ki
Qi
Combat Ki
Dim Mak
Death touches
Pressure Point knock outs
No touch knock outs
Kiai knock outs
Seeing "auras"
Pulling hearts out of chests

and my favorite.......being too deadly to spar!

How about those for a start?

Hmmm

I don't know about alot of those ,but i don't see your point about Chi,Qi,Ki or Dim Mak which means Death Touch. As far as most of that stuff it's just "bull crap" ,but chi,ki,qi is just another way of saying energy or life force. Of course ppl add BS to the meaning ,but that doesn't mean that Chi or energy doesn't run through the body.

As far as Dim Mak there is no great mystery there either. The body has meridans that run all through it ,if you disrupt any of those meridans (Strike them hard enough or at the right moment) , it can cause serious injury or even death.

Like striking someone between heart beats can cause the heart to fail ,that is known medical fact ,no mystery there. I do admit that some of the stories that follow Dim Mak are just made up trash though.

jeff:)

[Cliff Hargrave]

Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.



http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/

[The Nephilim]

Meridiansare good for medatating. But only if you imagine the colors. Apart from that, it's a bit new age for me.

[Paul B]

Wow!! You know, I do remember hearing about that a few years back,hmmm...a heavy bag,you say? I think I'll quit trying to poke my fingers through a pop can and start working on that!!!! :laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[jmd161]

Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.



http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/

Nothing wrong with being a skeptic or not beleving ,it doesn't make it anymore or less true. Some don't believe in God ,some didn't believe the earth is round.

jeff:)

[Cliff Hargrave]

......some didn't believe the earth is round.

jeff:)

Isn't it kind of oval shaped? :)

[Andrew Green]

Of course that is another myth cause no one ever believed the earth was flat...

Well ok, maybe a few uneducated folk, but good luck finding any references to a flat earth.

It looks round, and can be shown to be round very easily without any fancy equipment.

[The Nephilim]

Of course that is another myth cause no one ever believed the earth was flat...

Well ok, maybe a few uneducated folk, but good luck finding any references to a flat earth.

It looks round, and can be shown to be round very easily without any fancy equipment.

What? The earth is not square? :mad: www.timecube.com

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Ewok85]

I beleive in Ki! Yet then again my perception of the matter is ki = air... by controling my 'ki' im breathing. Amazing!

One of my favorites is how becoming blackbelt is like an instant switch from doing a MA as a hobby to becoming an ALL KNOWING MASTER AND KILLING MACHINE!! bah

[Posiview]

Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/

I'm with Cliff on this matter!

I've seen many people demonstrate their 'powers' on TV and have watched James Randi systematically demostrate that the 'powers' are fake/false!

Show me the proof!! :D :D

[muaythaifreak]

I think I'm siding with Cliff as well on the whole dim mak, ki controversey. By the way, how does one practice dim mak without going to prison? The masters must lose a lot of students to sparring. :D :rolleyes:

[The Nephilim]

Dim Mak is a home study course. You try it out at home and get a certificate to fill out after your court sentance.

[Chrono]

I beleive in Ki! Yet then again my perception of the matter is ki = air... by controling my 'ki' im breathing. Amazing!

I'm with you there, Leon.

What about breathing to help heal? I mean, like they advocate doing in Tai Chi and QiGong.

Jon

[Bugeisha]

My pet peeve is when someone makes a comment about driving a person's "nose-bone" into their brain and killing them. It makes me want to drive their nose-bone into their brain and kill them.

[The Nephilim]

I was discussing this with an ex navy guy that is training with us from the USA. Basically you have to break the entire nose for the bone to go into the brain, not one punch as is always stated.

[riku]

About k/ch/qi.. until participants define what the concept of ki might be (oriental medical, oriental philosophy of nature, mental aid for concentration and visualization, something similar to ancient theory of body fluids, something different) there's very little reason to argue if there is such an phenomenon ;) ..

Riku Ylönen

[peacefulwarrior]

guys there is no "bone" in the nose, sorry.


My favorate about the whole Ki thing is people that clam you can hit someone from across the room with it,.

[The Nephilim]

Science have monitored Ki or Chi. In a experiment they monitored the effect of Chi/Ki. The response was eye opening. But to explain it they had not much to answer. Maybe Randi could be used to dispel it.

[Cliff Hargrave]

guys there is no "bone" in the nose, sorry.


I was gonna post the same thing! No bone in the nose, just cartilage. The only thing you get when hit the nose upward is a mashed nose. Imagine how many dead boxers from uppercuts there would be if that was true.

[The Nephilim]

From what was said in the discussion, the nose has to be broken first for it to perform said action. This would require a double punch of good hitting in a certian area for it to take effect.

But if you hit there first, the chance of hitting a second time will be as good as punching air. People usually fall away after the first punch anyways.

[Bun-Bun]

Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.



http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/
I don't "believe in" many of those things either, meaning I don't assign any special power to it; but that doesn't change the fact that some of that does exist and does work.

Acupuncture, for example. Acupuncture does work for some things. I mean, Cliff's own link says this:

In 1995, George A. Ulett, M.D., Ph.D., Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, University of Missouri School of Medicine, stated that "devoid of metaphysical thinking, acupuncture becomes a rather simple technique that can be useful as a nondrug method of pain control." He believes that the traditional Chinese variety is primarily a placebo treatment, but electrical stimulation of about 80 acupuncture points has been proven useful for pain control [8].
Chi is another one. I don't "believe in" chi the same way that some people "believe in" god; but it exists. The problem is that the translation is bad-- the term encompasses a lot of stuff, some of which I think is real, and some of which I think is malarkey. I mean, how many people here would say they don't believe in "Energy" or "Power"?

In martial arts, I keep hearing "Chi" used to explain proper body structure. So, in that regards, I believe in chi-- *and* I can prove it to anyone who asks. (Yes, I am going to look at the Randi offer, and see if my parlor tricks qualify.) It should come as no surprise to any of us that small adjustments in the body can have dramatic effects in performance.

I'll give you one experiment to try for yourself. Get a friend, preferably one who's somewhat larger than yourself. Hold your arm straight out, close your fist, and have your friend push straight back while you try and resist. Your shoulder and body will get rocked back, no matter who is stronger or bigger.

Next, hold your fist right in front of your shoulder, and have your friend push again. Your arm is going to collapse inward some, regardless of strength.

Now, we'll place your arm in the position where the "Chi" is strongest. Make a natural bend in your arm, like you're reaching for something. Line your fist up with your shoulder, and keep the natural bend. Now, have your friend push.

See the difference? That is one application of Chi-- proper body mechanics. You can't really argue with the value of proper body mechanics, although you can ignore the other junk that comes with it.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Well I can't make the leap from body mechanics to chi.

Once I had an aikijutsu guy tell me that whenever he trained with this certain high ranking guy, the master's "ki" was so strong that he would have diarrhea for two days afterwards.

[peacefulwarrior]

I have been hit by a guy that gave me the runs for a week, but that was because he hit me real hard, :eek:

[Paul B]

I always learned that "Ki" was focus, and yes,sometimes interpreted as "breath", but everytime that it's used elsewhere,(outside the Dojo), it seems that people automatically associate it with outlandish claims,like Cliff was talking about.For me,"Ki" is focus. Say your executing a choke, or an armbar, your focus is on the joint or gi, or whatever you are using to execute your technique, another way to look at it, is you are using "KI" to achieve those results. This is not to say I haven't heard all the tall tales that usually circulate in the "Ki" Arts I have(am) studied. As far as "ki" that makes you have the "trots", maybe he ate some Japanese food, it always does the trick for me!!!!:laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[lightninrod]

So do I understand correctly that chi is a myth because no one here believes in it?
Everyone says "Show me proof!"
I say "Go find it for yourself!"

I've seen just as much media "evidence" for chi as I've seen against it. Yes, many people have been proven fraudulent. They all seem to have something in common, that being the "no-touch"/light-touch knockout. I'm in agreement that I will believe in it concretely only if a) it gets done to me, or b) if I were able to do it myself. It seems really far-fetched.

However, this discrediting of a few people in a few organizations hardly constitutes irrefutable proof that chi doesn't exist. I was in a motorcycle accident about ten years ago whick turned the bones of my left thigh and shin area into splinters, and I almost bled to death. Nothing has ever been the same since. Thankfully, my knee was undamaged. My left foot is now prosthetic and my thigh is very weak compared to the other one. I stand on my feet for 10-12 hours a day at work, six days a week, at a strenuously physical job (I'm a mechanic now, and I was a framer) with almost no pain. Before I found chi kung, this wasn't possible. My balance over uneven surfaces was totally unreliable, and remaining on my leg all day every day resulted in severe pain after work. Now it's all good. I can even exercise after work. At times, I would swear I feel the ground under my foot again. And that's really interesting considering that I have no foot there. Call it phantom sensation if you want to, but I've had phantom sensation since my foot got cut off and I'm therefore qualified to say that this feeling is very different. Obviously, I have no proof other than my own experience, which is proof to no one other than myself.

Since this is obviously unprovable except by direct experience, I'm finding my own proof. There have been other interesting benefits/experiences too, few of which are directly MA-related, and these are also provable to no one other than myself.

So my point is, I guess, that the truth isn't going to fall into anyone's lap, and no one can just give it to us. We have to find it for ourselves. This is true in all aspects of life. Legends/fables all have their roots in reality, but you have to get past the hype to get to the core of things. And, the sure thing is, that if you spend all your time focusing on what's not real, you will eventually blind yourself to what is.

Just some things to consider....


Justin Mears

By the way, chi kung got me off of drugs, too. It made me much more sensitive to the drugs' effects on my body and mind and helped me see past my negativity. Feeling calm and centered is a much nicer feeling.

[Paul B]

What is that old saying about God? "You don't have to believe in him,he believes in you!" I think it is the same deal with ki,chi,qi whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, you have it, I have it, everybody does! If you can type on the computer, that's ki in work! The fact that you are alive is also ki in work! I think that these people(and myself ) are referring to the more outlandish claims that are made from some people out there,many of which I am sure you have heard yourself! Also, I should have cleared in up in one of my posts on this thread that I have no disrespect at all for Chi-Gong practitioners, that one example I gave was just one of the more extravagant displays I have seen! I have also seen a Chi-Gong practitioner break a steel bar over his head, and I personally inspected the bar before he broke it,yes, it was"real",and so was his "chi"
FWIW.

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Oz82]

Lightninrod, thanks for sharing that, it was truly interesting, and I'm glad to know you're doing so well. Have you been able to help anyone else in similar situations?

Paul, I'd like to see that steel bar trick myself (seriously; I'm not trying to impugn the fact that it happened). Seems to me that it would be easier to just use a hacksaw, though. :D

[Chrono]

I always learned that "Ki" was focus

My former aikido instructor told us that we use ki when we throw a baseball. The focus that was used to throw it at the target.

Jon

[Paul B]

Yeah, I hear you Oz82, When my Teacher told me that they were going to be doing this, I was VERY skeptical..when the assistants made their way up through the bleachers banging the bars together I made sure that I was on the endseat to get to grab one and take a look, all I can say is they had a little rust on them, and they were VERY heavy, I still can't explain it, they kind of "pinged" when banged together which means they were "drop-forged"= real steel, I get this type of "ping" from my Estwing hammers at work, which are also drop-forged.I think the same group from China will be coming by probably this fall or early next year,so I'll be sure to let everyone know when they are coming,so they will have a chance to see for themselves. On a sidenote, they usually hang out at our school for the weekend,so it's pretty cool to trade some Hapkido and Kung Fu together!

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Oz82]

My former aikido instructor told us that we use ki when we throw a baseball. The focus that was used to throw it at the target.

Jon

Funny you say that! My son, who is very active in the dojo and also very active in sports, has told me that he uses ki to enhance his athletic skill. One of those is his pitching. If his ki is focused, he'll strike out everybody. If it's not, he couldn't hit a barn. Sure, this is universal to everyone, but isn't that the point?

Paul, I'd love to get together just to contrast our different hapkido styles. Adding in some kung fu would just be gravy!

[Bun-Bun]

Here's the thing. I can "prove" that Chi is real, by demonstrating some simple body mechanics tricks. Certainly they overlap with chi principles. Rather or not you choose to believe in the rest is uo to you; but if you accept that body mechanics are real and provide incredible effects, you accept that Chi is real.

If I told you that I could improve your technique by 30%, simply by altering one or two minor body mechanics, you may be a bit skeptical but you'd believe it. (Especially if a demonstration were provided.) If I told you that I could improve your technique by 30% by teaching you proper application of chi, many people wouldn't believe it, even *with* a demonstration. However, I might just be teaching you the exact same trick as before.

Bottom line-- don't automatically dismiss something simply because they use terms you don't like. You can still learn a lot of valueable stuff.

[Paul B]

Anytime at all!!! I'll be there with bells on!! As for adding Kung Fu, my Teacher is MUY big into CMA, in fact he just arrived back from China tonight from visiting Jet Li's old teacher! He goes over there(and Korea) at least 2 times a year. But anytime, and I mean anytime you want to come up, or you have something going, just give me the word,and we'll go from there!

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Andrew Green]

Well I can't make the leap from body mechanics to chi.

Once I had an aikijutsu guy tell me that whenever he trained with this certain high ranking guy, the master's "ki" was so strong that he would have diarrhea for two days afterwards.


Cause he was so full of Sh##?

Sorry, couldn't resist it :D

Effects of "Chi" (in relation to martial arts) can usually be explained as body mechanics...

Same as my watch. It has a little magical being inside with a magical marker. It changes the time on my watch. I can prove it exists because my watch face changes.... or I could explain it in terms that don't the laws of physics...

Just cause someone can explain something using Chi doesn't mean chi exists.

But that also doesn't mean that everything explained by it is bogus either. Just cause the magical being in my watch doesn't really exist doesn't mean that my watch doesn't work.

[Oz82]

In one thousand words or less, describe what chi means to you...

Seriously, I don't think it's proper mental focus. I also don't think it's proper body mechanics. I think it's a confluence and harmony of both of those.

I also don't think there's anything at all mystical about it.

Kobe Bryant demonstrates chi when he drains a three over two or three defenders with less than a second left in the game.

Hank Aaron demostrated chi when he stroked all those homers, even with the pressures he was under.

Tiger Woods used to demonstrate chi, but I think he's lost his grasp on it.

I demonstrated chi a few weeks ago when I maneuvered my car around a wreck in progress at 90+ miles an hour without becoming involved in it.

Lightninrod has already explained how he uses chi, and I don't think I could argue with his experience.

To me, it's a repository of mind-body harmony that we all have access to, but we also all have different names for.

I also believe in God, and that belief isn't shaken by charlatans who would use God for personal gain. In the same way, neither is my beleif in chi shaken by those who would warp it's meaning for personal gain.

There, I'm done, and WAY under a thousand words!

[riku]

Back to original topic... how about the measuring rod of art, the mystic 'real life situation', the criteria used to taunt some other art than own ("But in real life, that won't work")?

Legitimating art, the myth of founder who fight hundreds of streetfights and illegal bare-knuckle fights, that's pretty fun, too...

Riku Ylönen

[SteyrAUG]

I tried to resist posting here, I really did...........



Myths, hhhmmmm, how about:

Chi
Ki
Qi

Do you also not believe in accupuncture?




Combat Ki
Dim Mak
Death touches

Basically accupuncture theory in reverse.




Pressure Point knock outs

Seen it, done it and been vitcim of them. Get a copy of Grays anatomy for pete's sakes. :D



No touch knock outs

Never heard of it.



Kiai knock outs

Not their purpose.



Seeing "auras"

Blame hippies.



Pulling hearts out of chests

Coroners do it all the time.



and my favorite.......being too deadly to spar!

How about those for a start?

I'd show ya but it's way too dangerous. :D

[SteyrAUG]

Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.



http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/

Do some objective research.

Western medicine discounted accupunture/accupressure for centuries until the 1940s when someone actually did some genuine scinetific evaluation. The science of accupuncture/accupressure is a reality and has been proven over and over.

That said there are as many quacks in the field as there are in chiropractic medicine and not everybody knows what they are doing or talking about.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Do some objective research.

Western medicine discounted accupunture/accupressure for centuries until the 1940s when someone actually did some genuine scinetific evaluation. The science of accupuncture/accupressure is a reality and has been proven over and over.

That said there are as many quacks in the field as there are in chiropractic medicine and not everybody knows what they are doing or talking about.

Still don't believe it. Everything i have seen concerning it only addresses accupuncture with limited pain relief and that was only slightly better than placebo treatments. I haven't seen a thing proving treatment of any illnesses. Same with Chiros claiming to treat illnesses. I think they are good for certain back and neck pain but not much else.

Do you have any sites you can point me to?

[Oz82]

"I just learned a technique / move / hold (take your pick) that has no counter!"

When somone says this in our dojo everyone's eyes get big and there's a line waiting to play with this "uncounterable" move. It usually takes less than 10 minutes for someone to come up with a counter, and we usually find multiples. It only takes a couple of seconds if Sensei hears about it, and the poor sap dumb enough to say it is usually in some amount of pain! :laugh:

[The Nephilim]

Do some objective research.

Western medicine discounted accupunture/accupressure for centuries until the 1940s when someone actually did some genuine scinetific evaluation. The science of accupuncture/accupressure is a reality and has been proven over and over.

That said there are as many quacks in the field as there are in chiropractic medicine and not everybody knows what they are doing or talking about.

Billy Connelly said on stage about alternative healing and aromatherapists:

"There was this big car crash on the motorway. Bodies everywhere and this truck driver was outside his cab screaming in pain. Bleeding profusely and his arm severed and lying on the tarmac. People could not help until someone barged through carryng a case.

Now that looks nasty, said the person, let me rub some lavinder oil onto it. this will help you relax. See your slowly tilting to one side and relaxing.

No said the driver, I am trying to reach to my other arm and hit you with it you *******" :D

[Andrew Green]

Basically accupuncture theory in reverse.


Rejecting a theory does not mean rejecting all of the things that theory is used to explain.

Just because I reject the theory that the little magical being lives in my watch to make it work does not mean I reject the fact that my watch works.

[SteyrAUG]

Still don't believe it. Everything i have seen concerning it only addresses accupuncture with limited pain relief and that was only slightly better than placebo treatments. I haven't seen a thing proving treatment of any illnesses. Same with Chiros claiming to treat illnesses. I think they are good for certain back and neck pain but not much else.

Do you have any sites you can point me to?


Let me look around and see what I can find.

But trust me western medicine would NEVER declare anything genuine unless it actually could be proven in controlled conditions.

That said it is limited in application. Anyone thinking they are gonna cure AIDS or cancer with accupuncture is gonna die.

I'll briefly explain how it works.

Western medicine is far more proactive and addresses the cause as well as the symptons. In other words they give you medicine that fights the virus, infection, etc.

Eastern medicine does this to "some" extent with herbal remedies etc. but they are far less effective and ar comparable to western medicine in it's infancy when cure alls consisted of herbs, roots, etc. It works, just not as well as most of the stuff we do today. It should be noted that very few people in the East rely exclusively on herbal remedies except in the most rural areas, and then usually because modern medical services are unavailable.

Now within Eastern medicine is the practice of accupressure/accupuncture. The basic theory is to correct the bodies basic systems (these include chi circulation but also address proper blood flow, etc. if done properly) and let the bodies natural defenses correct any problems. There is a comparative in the West whenever things like white blood cell development is promoted to combat illness. In the East herbal rememdies are occassionally used to correct the function systems of the body.

Again, I must stress that even in the East accupuncture/accupressure and any herbal rememdies are usually done in conjunction with modern medicine and ONLY used in areas where they have been proven to be effective. In some, usually rare, cases Eastern methods have fewer negative results than Western methods and are preferred for that reason.

The problem from all of this is misunderstanding and misrepresentation.

People who actually believe or promote the idea that seriosu medical conditions can be needled away are idiots spreading stupidity. This is tantamount to the chi guys who claim their chi can kill you from across the room. Chi is far more beneficial to protecting the body than for attacking an opponent.

Chi is simple really and does have very practical uses. If you take away the mysticism and ******** often attached to it and demonstrate it in a real, unexaggerated way people will understand it and apprectiate it for what it is, though it won't be nearlly as cool as some of the ridiculous notions floating around out there.

Dim Mak (Tien Hseuh) is simply accupressure theory in reverse. If certain points of the body can be manipulated to promote corrective health then the reverse is true. And 500 years ago that meant a person got sicker and occassionally died as a result. Obviously "death touch" techniques can easily be reversed by the same process so they aren't nearlly as lethal (or dramatic) as they are often portrayed.

I'll try and find some credible, western sources regarding meridians and chi circulation for your research. That said your instincts are correct, even secure in the knowledge that it is real I'd say roughtly 85% of the so called "practioneers" I encounter are either knowingly or unknowingly FOS.

[SteyrAUG]

Cliff, here's what I have so far...

http://www.fitresource.com/Living/Acupunct.htm

Specifically, acupuncture and acupressure are intended to rebalance the flow of the body's emotional and physical energy, resulting in pain relief and restored health.

The World Health Organization has proven that some acupuncture/acupressure points do exist, and has identified 104 conditions that acupuncture can treat including addictions, asthma, colds, gastrointestinal disorders, migraines, myopia (nearsightedness), paralysis from stroke, sinusitis, tennis elbow and osteoarthritis.

http://www.tcminternational.com/traditionalchinesemedicine.htm

There was a time when Traditional Chinese Medicine was dismissed by Western doctors, many of whom still say there is no scientific proof it works. Most of the massive data supporting TCM comes from clinical observation. Dr. Mui ICTCM,Victoria founder, insists there is plenty of scientific data, “but not enough interest from Western doctors to seek it out.” For example, a 1985 French study proved by using radioactive tracers that the acupuncture meridians essential to TCM theory actually exist.

http://www.acupuncturedoc.com/scientif.htm

One of the studies cited by the NIH was conducted by
Abass Alavi, M.D., chief of nuclear medicine at the
University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, who
showed that acupuncture affects the flow of blood in
the brain. He used SPECT (single photon emission
computed tomography) to view the brains of four
people with pain and five pain-free people who
served as the control group. Dr. Alavi found that after
acupuncture needles were inserted, all of the patients
had increased blood flow to the thalamus, the area of
the brain that relays pain and other sensory
messages. Because the brains of the pain-free group
showed the same reactions as those with pain, the
changes in blood flow couldn't be attributed to
placebo.

"We've used acupuncture at the Mayo Pain Clinic
since 1974," says Lee A. Nauss, M.D., an emeritus
anesthesiologist at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. "If
patients don't respond to the types of treatment that
usually work best — medication and nerve blocks —
then we consider acupuncture.

[lightninrod]

What is that old saying about God? "You don't have to believe in him,he believes in you!" I think it is the same deal with ki,chi,qi whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, you have it, I have it, everybody does! If you can type on the computer, that's ki in work! The fact that you are alive is also ki in work!
I agree, with the assertion that ki is this and more. Someone said above to define ki/chi in 100 words or less. For me it is simply energy. Nothing religious about it. Spiritual, yes. Religous, no. It is another aspect of ourselves just as much as physicality or mentality. Just as we can learn to focus our physical and mental energies, it makes sense to me that we should be able to exercise, focus, and express our spiritual energy. The problem is that just as the functions of the mind are harder to pin down than those of the body, likewise are the functions of the spirit compared to the functions of the mind. I intend to search this through and see for myself what is underneath it all. Hopefully I won't get lost along the way..... :bow:



I think that these people(and myself ) are referring to the more outlandish claims that are made from some people out there, many of which I am sure you have heard yourself!
I understand the disdain created by the frauds, and I only wanted to point out that these frauds are the few bad apples that spoil the bunch for everyone. I think people are selling themselves short by not looking past this kind of stuff. It's a bad stopping point.


Also, I should have cleared in up in one of my posts on this thread that I have no disrespect at all for Chi-Gong practitioners, that one example I gave was just one of the more extravagant displays I have seen! I have also seen a Chi-Gong practitioner break a steel bar over his head, and I personally inspected the bar before he broke it,yes, it was"real",and so was his "chi"
FWIW
What is "FWIW"?
Let me ask you a question. You say you have seen someone break a steel bar over their head. How does it feel when you say this? Do you think "Man, no one is going to believe this. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut."? That's how I feel when I want to tell about some experience that I have had. (No, I can't break bars over my head. All I can do is twist off nuts and bolts with a wrench!) I think alot of people who are actually skilled (I'm not) with chi feel this way, maybe even more so, and that is why there isn't any more positive evidence for this sort of thing. It's much easier to just keep to myself rather than give people suspicion that I'm a nut. :t2: But, if I am a nut, that's cool too. I'm having a good time. Chi kung has also taught me to let go.


Sincerely,
Justin Mears

[Paul B]

Hey Justin,

FWIW=For what its worth,I think.

Yes,that is exactly what I felt when I wrote that, but I also had to see for myself before I could relate a story like that,and I have video of it that I watch every once in a while,just to kind of keep myself in check. Maybe I should go pop the tape in!:laugh: I'm no expert,either,in anything,period.Just a student looking for the truth,or an approximation thereof.I am very sorry if I oversimplified things, maybe in the future I will be able to see things more clearly,but time will tell,eh? We all just have to keep pressing forward and keep our minds open to new experiences,how else will we learn anything!
FWIW.

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Jeff Burger]

There is a problem with much accupunture that you MAist can relate to.
Certified but not qualified.

I had a Chinese friend who swapped languages with me. I taught them English and they taught me Chinese.

They were an accupunture teacher in China. But in the USA they ha to go through school and get certified.
She did but told me if I go for accupunture to go to someone who learned in China. Reason being is that the teachers here didnt know so how could the students.

I worked part time at Mass General Hospital and they had ( may still have) a accupunturist on staff.

I had some good results from accupunture.
Maybe placebo but I went in semi skeptical.

As far as chi, ki, prana ..... cant say it doesnt exist.
Better martial artist than me over the centuries say its there.
Sadly there are so many charlatans out there it just puts a bad taste in everyones mouth.

I can accept it as a possibilty but Im not about to put my life on the line with it.

Alot of myths come from fish stories. Others from fantasy books and movies.
Chinese didnt have super heros like Spiderman, Superman .... like we do.
So they hype up martial arts legends. Every time the story gets told they jump a little higher or have mystical powers .....

Jeff

[Ewok85]

My Dad has laser accupuncture for an old back injury. He says it helps, so at the very least it makes him feel better.

[Jeff Burger]

Laser accupucnture sounds like a placebo money scam to me.

Besides its not puncturing, it would fit more into moxybustion.

Jeff

[lightninrod]

There is a problem with much accupunture that you MAist can relate to.
Certified but not qualified.

I had a Chinese friend who swapped languages with me. I taught them English and they taught me Chinese.

They were an accupunture teacher in China. But in the USA they ha to go through school and get certified.
She did but told me if I go for accupunture to go to someone who learned in China. Reason being is that the teachers here didnt know so how could the students.

I worked part time at Mass General Hospital and they had ( may still have) a accupunturist on staff.

I had some good results from accupunture.
Maybe placebo but I went in semi skeptical.

As far as chi, ki, prana ..... cant say it doesnt exist.
Better martial artist than me over the centuries say its there.
Sadly there are so many charlatans out there it just puts a bad taste in everyones mouth.

I can accept it as a possibilty but Im not about to put my life on the line with it.

Alot of myths come from fish stories. Others from fantasy books and movies.
Chinese didnt have super heros like Spiderman, Superman .... like we do.
So they hype up martial arts legends. Every time the story gets told they jump a little higher or have mystical powers .....

Jeff

I like the "certified but not qualified" thing. There's alot of that in MAs in general. And you are right. These charlatans put a bad taste in my mouth too. But, taking the larger view, I have to admit that they do have their purpose. Chi kung isn't for everybody, and it's especially not for anyone who can't be honest with their self. Such schools are the perfect place for the self-delusional "power-seeker". Real chi kung would only make them worse due to their whole mind-set. It has to be approached with good intention.
As far as putting your life on the line for something - I'm not advocating doing any such thing. Chi only amplifies your natural proclivities. It's not some "force" that one relies on like in Star Wars. My experience thus far has been that chi comes into play on it's own, when it is allowed to. I can't willfully "make" it happen, I can only keep my mind out of the way and "allow" it to happen. In fact, the more I willfully try to do it, the further I am from being able to do it.
And super heroes aren't exactly what I had in mind concerning legends and fables. I was more referring to historical figures who's exploits have made them legendary, or caused them to become fable-ous. (I think the correct word here would be "fabulous", but it doesn't convey the right connotations.) But the phenomenon is similar. As you pointed out, the Chinese and Japanese didn't have stuff like this, so they made legends out of actual historical people. But that's not to say that these people didn't have extraordinary skills and abilities. There are people living today who I think are perfect examples of this. They have real skills which are far in excess of what most people achieve in their lifetimes. They aren't super heroes, they're just individuals who, through practice and experience, have learned to "push the (perceptive) envelope" of what is and isn't possible. They are examples to me that I don't have to be like everyone else, and that I, too, should feel free to explore the reality of my own limitations. Sometimes we aren't nearly as limited as we think we are.

Hope I'm making sense.


Justin Mears

[Luebbers]

I thought of another modern-day myth that I hear quite often.

"Tons of people have been killed in those UFC fights."

You would be amazed how many people really believe this.

[Andrew Green]

I thought of another modern-day myth that I hear quite often.

"Tons of people have been killed in those UFC fights."

You would be amazed how many people really believe this.

UFC 2 advertised that a match could end by the death of a fighter...

That is the after effects of some really good marketing for a spectical but really bad advertising for a sport.

And by good I mean "Made people give up $ for it"

[The Nephilim]

I thought of another modern-day myth that I hear quite often.

"Tons of people have been killed in those UFC fights."

You would be amazed how many people really believe this.


To me the UFC has become what it has feared all along. where are the Wado Ryu versus Wing chun fighters? The Aikido versus boxing? The Gracie Ju Jitsu versus the Shoot wrestlers? That is what the UFC started off to find out, and now look at it. It is full of MMA fighters.

I think there should be just another type of UFC where styles are fought but only on the style alone. Match the style against another like Karate V Kung Fu and keep the bands seperate until the finals and then do what the UFC did right in the beginning.

[Jeff Burger]

"over specialazation "

Never thought of it that way, but I like it.

Jeff

[lightninrod]

I spent the evening after training with my partners watching some MMA stuff last night. I like the stuff in a traditional boxing ring better than the cage matchs like the UFC. The cage is like having someone else in the ring pushing the fighters around disrupting posture and position. They use it for leverage on the ground and when they bump into it, standing the impact breaks the position of the fighters. In the standard boxing ring, although they get entangled position is not lost. I really like the idea of moving them into the middle once they fall into the ropes in the same position with the dominant fighter still in his supperior posture.
As far as styles go I like the break down occuring in them. I think there was to much over specialazation before the modern MMA fighters.
Having the cage there to use as an advantage just makes things more realistic, I think. Repositioning fighters because of some "unfair" advantage gained through use of enviromental factors (the fence) is cheesy. The whole idea behind the UFC was supposed to be "realistic" MA combat. There's nothing at all realistic about stopping things and moving people back to the center of the ring. Heck, if they really want to get really realistic they should put furniture in there. Or lamp posts. Or a brick wall. Simulate some real fight conditions. There should also be various furniture/decorative objects which could be used as improvised weapons. And for an extra dose of realism, there should be someone there to start kicking people when they are on the ground for more than a couple of seconds!
Of course, I know none of this will ever happen, but it's interesting to think about. It would be one heck of a fight, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

So.... I know everyone is going to bite my head off over this, but my favorite MA myth is that the UFC is realistic. I've been doing MAs on and off for a long time, and I have yet to fight anyone in a cage, half-naked, in an environment free of concrete, furniture, objects, or dirt, with no one else able to jump in and gang up on me when I've done something that on-lookers don't consider to be "fair".

Justin Mears

[DvividYMAA]

Good topic. Very important subject matter, lots of confusion here.

"Myths, hhhmmmm, how about:

Chi
Ki
Qi
Combat Ki
Dim Mak
Death touches
Pressure Point knock outs
No touch knock outs
Kiai knock outs
Seeing "auras"....

The Chinese word Qi is over 5,000 years old. Initially the word was constructed of two characters, which were the words "No Fire". The meaning of this is 'perfectly balanced energy', meaning not too positive (Yang) or too negative (Yin).

The word Qi is used for all kinds of energy in the universe. Most often, people use it in reference to the Qi in the human body.

In more recent times, the word Qi has been constructed of two different characters, which are the words for "Rice and Air". At some point, the ancient Chinese who were interested in Qi realized that the food and air the took in were directly related to the amount of energy in their body. Its no mystery, its just the metabolism. You eat bad food or breathe bad air, you get dirty Qi. Stagnation. Illness.

Qi (Chi, Ki) is the bioelectric energy in every one of the 60 trillion cells within your body. Western science is doing a lot of research on bioelectricity and it confirms everything the Chinese have known for centuries. The more air you breathe, the more you allow the body's natural circulation of Qi and blood. Qi is not Air.

The more you focus your mind's intent on something, whether hitting a bag, or a baseball, or a nosebone into a brain (haha), the more you lead your Qi to achieve your goal. The Mind leads the Qi.This doesn't mean that the Qi leaves your cells and goes to your target, it means that the Qi in your body is led by your focus toward whatever your intention is. Qi is not Focus.

If your body's alignment is correct, or ideal, meaning you are connected from the bottom of your foot to the tips of your fingers when striking, Qi will flow smoothly through your body. "Generate power from your legs, control it with the waist, and manifest it in the hands." Qi is not Alignment.

Every time you tense a muscle, Qi stagnates there. When you are relaxed and loose, Qi flows smoothly.

Jin(Jing) is the Chinese word for Martial Power, and it refers to muscular power supported by Qi. External (Hard) Styles like Kung Fu use a lot of muscle supported with a little Qi. Internal (Soft) Styles like Tai Chi use as little muscle as possible and a lot of Qi. Soft-Hard Styles like Shaolin White Crane (the origin of Karate) are loose until the moment they strike, and then tense up.

Through the body's proper alignment, Jin can be transmitted through the body like a whip, from the feet to the hands, and Qi is led smoothly to support the mind's intention.

Tiger Woods trained Tai Chi as a child. He is healthy, full of Qi. His mind is focused, his alignment is excellent, his Jin is connected and smooth. He hits the ball real far. (maybe lately he thinks about endorsements and supermodels too much or something)

As far as acupuncture, meridians, dim mak, et al...In China, they perform Open Heart Surgery without anesthesia, and the patient can speak to the doctor, thanks to acupuncture(remember ancient history, Nixon's visit to China?). Acupuncture is based on the existence of meridians. Some of the meridians are connected directly to the internal organs. If you study the meridians, and the natural timing of the cycle of circulation through them, you can learn to affect the organs for better or worse, ie Dim Mak. With strong Qi, and good Jin, a strike or even a touch to the correct place at the correct time will cause serious injury or death.

Bruce Lee's One-Inch-Punch: Short Jin, very little muscle, lots of Qi.

Very few people train Internal Arts nowadays to the point that they can emit Qi across the room, and kill without a touch. That's why its hard to find someone able to demonstrate these things to you in today's instant-blackbelt martial society. Look here, so much disagreement that the foundation of Internal Arts even exist!

I know its funny to be cynical and try to debunk the myths of martial arts, and there were some really funny posts in this thread, but there is so much confusion regarding Qi, and so little of the ancient arts being transmitted here in the West, that it is dangerous to dissuade people from taking these subjects seriously.

My humble opinion only, based on study, research and experience. Peace.

Reading Books Is Real Good
Energy Medicine (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1879181584/103-9243450-3340649?v=glance)

Qi is Bioelectricity (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688069711/qid=1088690701/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-9243450-3340649)

My Personal Favorite (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/PJ65E16BBF94/qid=1088690843/sr=5-3/ref=sr_5_3/103-9243450-3340649)

[lightninrod]

Qi (Chi, Ki) is the bioelectric energy in every one of the 60 trillion cells within your body. Western science is doing a lot of research on bioelectricity and it confirms everything the Chinese have known for centuries. The more air you breathe, the more you allow the body's natural circulation of Qi and blood. Qi is not Air.
"Bioelectric" energy is what I, too, usually use to explain what chi is. When I feel my chi in my hands, feet, and head it is a very warm, tingly sensation that is kind of like a low-voltage current flowing through me. It is very energizing.


The more you focus your mind's intent on something, whether hitting a bag, or a baseball, or a nosebone into a brain (haha), the more you lead your Qi to achieve your goal. The Mind leads the Qi.This doesn't mean that the Qi leaves your cells and goes to your target, it means that the Qi in your body is led by your focus toward whatever your intention is. Qi is not Focus.
Although I can intentionally direct my chi while doing chi kung, I haven't been able to intentionally use chi in a MA application. It only seems to work for me when I have no intent. Specifically, I just stand there flat-footed just like I do in line at the grocery store, and I just empty my mind and wait. Then, when the attack comes, I'm just along for the ride. Sometimes I do things that I have never practiced or been shown, and other times I do something that I have learned, but never really got the hang of. (Some of these techniques were techniques which I used to think were too "soft" to be useful. Man, was I mistaken.)
If I don't approach a sparring match or a fight in this manner, I have no flow whatsoever, and it becomes just another contest of strength and speed, where it is difficult to quickly do anything that's really decisive.



If your body's alignment is correct, or ideal, meaning you are connected from the bottom of your foot to the tips of your fingers when striking, Qi will flow smoothly through your body. "Generate power from your legs, control it with the waist, and manifest it in the hands." Qi is not Alignment.

Every time you tense a muscle, Qi stagnates there. When you are relaxed and loose, Qi flows smoothly.
I would only add to this that the mind must be empty and relaxed, too. A properly aligned body is no use if the mind is "stopped", or distracted, or trying to force things into a "mold".


Jin(Jing) is the Chinese word for Martial Power, and it refers to muscular power supported by Qi. External (Hard) Styles like Kung Fu use a lot of muscle supported with a little Qi. Internal (Soft) Styles like Tai Chi use as little muscle as possible and a lot of Qi. Soft-Hard Styles like Shaolin White Crane (the origin of Karate) are loose until the moment they strike, and then tense up.
The soft-hard thing is the most effective in my opinion. It leaves a person able to move freely and blend in, and then apply power when and where it's most effective. It is also the most conjunctive with the way chi works, I think, considering the whole yin/yang cycle.


Anyway, what is your take on what I said about no intent? Am I just misunderstanding the whole "intention" thing? Maybe I have the intention of openly recieving whatever comes. Does this count as "intent" the way it applies to chi usage?

Justin Mears

[DvividYMAA]

Maybe I have the intention of openly recieving whatever comes. Does this count as "intent" the way it applies to chi usage?
Justin Mears

Yes, it sounds like your intention of receiving an attack is a good way to approach a fight or sparring situation. Until you train Jin with a master for a long time, it is very difficult to actually lead the Qi to be very effective in a strike.

Its true that the only time you may experience it is when you're relaxed, and not "trying too hard", your body's reflex or memory takes over and suddenly you hit or throw something much better than you would usually. And you feel it when that happens like, "whoa what was that?" A bullseye.

I don't know much about it, especially for fighting, Im only a student. I recommend studying Qi and Jin with a master because they're very deep subjects that can only be experienced through training, with guidance.

Real Intent in Qi useage is more like the above-you need to learn to feel Qi, and learn to store it in your abdomen (Intestines), the place the Chinese refer to as the Elixir Field (Dan Tian), which Western Science now refers to as 'the Second Brain'. Only then can you study proper body mechanics and 'leading Qi during a strike'.

One way to think about it is this: If you think about your fist when you are punching someone's nosebone into their brain, Qi stops in your fist. The muscular strength in your fist is supported by Qi. If you think about your friend's nosebone as your target, Qi won't stop in your hand, it is transmitted.

However, without strong Qi, and proper alignment, your Jin will be stopped somewhere in your body and Qi wont flow. For instance, if your shoulder is too tight, Qi stagnates. This is probably a bad example, because punching someone like this is a pretty Hard or External exercise, which is mostly muscle. If it were a soft-hard martial style, where you were using a whipping motion in your body to generate force, then all of this theory comes more into play.

Anyway, it is endlessly interesting to me. thanks, back to work...

[Luebbers]

I don't know if calling something like the UFC "realistic" is a myth, per se, or more a facsimile. Of course it's not the same thing as a "real" fight, however, it is the closest thing that our society will allow to be organized. You can see the evolution since the first UFC, which had almost no rules at all. Sanctioning bodies will simply not allow the event to take place if you have a literal "no rules" environment, much less trying to recreate a street fight situation. I do think that if you want to learn how to fight, in the street or in the ring, MMA training is the way to go.

I also agree that the ring is better. The cage was kind of a cheesy concept to begin with to make the whole thing seem more dangerous and add to the air that the only way out of the Octagon was either victorious or unconcious. I hate it when people stall up against the fence, either on the ground or standing up; it slows the action down, it's boring to watch, and it's cheap.

[Cliff Hargrave]

As far as acupuncture, meridians, dim mak, et al...In China, they perform Open Heart Surgery without anesthesia, and the patient can speak to the doctor, thanks to acupuncture(remember ancient history, Nixon's visit to China?).

Ok another new one on me. Open heart surgery? What does Nixon have to do with that? Did he witness this?

[lightninrod]

I don't know if calling something like the UFC "realistic" is a myth, per se, or more a facsimile. Of course it's not the same thing as a "real" fight, however, it is the closest thing that our society will allow to be organized. You can see the evolution since the first UFC, which had almost no rules at all. Sanctioning bodies will simply not allow the event to take place if you have a literal "no rules" environment, much less trying to recreate a street fight situation. I do think that if you want to learn how to fight, in the street or in the ring, MMA training is the way to go.
I understand what you're saying about sanctioning bodies. In some states, such tourneys are actually illegal, I believe. And I want to make it clear that I'm not saying anything concerning the realism of MMA. It's obviously a very effective style of fighting, although I don't think it's the only way to go for street self-defence. I think there are other MAs that have alot to offer, too. Concerning the UFC, I'm only speaking specifically about the environmental, psychological, and situational differences between a planned tournament fight and an actual self-defense situation.



I also agree that the ring is better. The cage was kind of a cheesy concept to begin with to make the whole thing seem more dangerous and add to the air that the only way out of the Octagon was either victorious or unconcious. I hate it when people stall up against the fence, either on the ground or standing up; it slows the action down, it's boring to watch, and it's cheap.
Yeah, stalling on the fence is definitely boring to watch. But honestly, if somebody like Mark Coleman were after me, I'd be holding on for dear life! I would have a death grip on that fence! But I wouldn't put myself in there with him anyway. And I would prefer a round ring myself. But larger than in karate tournaments. And maybe put a wall of some sort around it. There shouldn't be ropes there that would cause a reset.
What I really appreciated about the early UFC was that most of the fighters were fairly average people. Most of them weren't hulks, and most of them weren't professional fighters. Things were alot more unpredictable back then. I still think Kimo would have whooped Royce if he hadn't had that topknot of hair for Royce to hold on to. Those fights were so much more entertaining than what I see nowadays. Know what I mean?


Justin Mears

[lightninrod]

Yes, it sounds like your intention of receiving an attack is a good way to approach a fight or sparring situation. Until you train Jin with a master for a long time, it is very difficult to actually lead the Qi to be very effective in a strike.

I read somewhere a long time ago that it's not possible to attack someone without opening yourself. So I spent alot of time with a good friend of mine figuring out ways to draw an attack, and then attack the attack. It seemed to work pretty good. Later, I joined a ninjutsu dojo, and the white belt training focused on the earth element, which involves standing like what I was talking about, and doing the techniques from there. I have read since then that this is something that should be really studied on, so I have tried this alot when practicing with my friends. Chi kung seems to really make it work well.
Do you study any particular art(s)? What kinds of things do you do when you practice? Have you had any interesting experiences with chi?




Its true that the only time you may experience it is when you're relaxed, and not "trying too hard", your body's reflex or memory takes over and suddenly you hit or throw something much better than you would usually. And you feel it when that happens like, "whoa what was that?" A bullseye.
That's exactly what it's like. Sometimes I really surprise myself by how suddenly I go into motion, and everything is a blur for a moment, and then they're down, and I'm not believing how smoothly it happened. I wish I could lock into this and make it happen every time. It feels great.


However, without strong Qi, and proper alignment, your Jin will be stopped somewhere in your body and Qi wont flow. For instance, if your shoulder is too tight, Qi stagnates. This is probably a bad example, because punching someone like this is a pretty Hard or External exercise, which is mostly muscle. If it were a soft-hard martial style, where you were using a whipping motion in your body to generate force, then all of this theory comes more into play.
I've read that the chi can lead the body into the position/alignment that it needs, if we will relax enough to let it. What is your thinking on this? This seems to be more like what I feel happening.



Anyway, it is endlessly interesting to me. thanks, back to work...
Me too. I look forward to picking your brain more in the future. You may be "only a student", but everyone has something to teach.

Later!

Justin Mears

[Erik]

Once I had an aikijutsu guy tell me that whenever he trained with this certain high ranking guy, the master's "ki" was so strong that he would have diarrhea for two days afterwards.
I have had that problem. Usually it came from either 1) working out way too hard or 2) not the ki but the fists and knees in the gut.

Hey, what's up with that timecube guy? Is there some context to that website or is s/he as full on psycho as s/he seems?

[Jack Stay]

Acupuncture, like Chiropractory, is legal in Massachusetts and is recognized by insurance companies for treatment.

But curiously, in one of the URL's provided dismissing acupuncture as bunk, it pointed out that if improperly performed, acupuncture can cause fainting and convulsions, among several other risks. But if Acupuncture is a fake, shouldn't it produce no symptoms at all?
_____________________
John 'Jack' Stay


Sorry but I don't believe in any of that. Meridians, Chi, accupuncture, accupressure, dim mak, death touches, etc.

Just count me as a skeptic.



http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html
http://www.randi.org/

[Jack Stay]

Again: In 1968 Aaron Banks hosted a whole series of mixed martial arts matches in Madison Square Garden; boxers vs. Judokas; Karatekas vs. Boxers; kick-boxers vs. wrestlers; wrestlers vs. boxers, and on and on.

A well known mixed martial art style emerging from this era was Jeet Kune Do.

It appears that UFC learned nothing from Aaron Banks and did the same thing all over again.
_____________________
John 'Jack' Stay



To me the UFC has become what it has feared all along. where are the Wado Ryu versus Wing chun fighters? The Aikido versus boxing? The Gracie Ju Jitsu versus the Shoot wrestlers? That is what the UFC started off to find out, and now look at it. It is full of MMA fighters.

I think there should be just another type of UFC where styles are fought but only on the style alone. Match the style against another like Karate V Kung Fu and keep the bands seperate until the finals and then do what the UFC did right in the beginning.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I always heard Banks shows were exhibitions (fake) . Just a big show-biz thing to promote martial arts. Big MA variety show with demos, glitter, and music.

The fact remains though, whatever he did didn't become popular while the UFC did. So apparently they learned something. I would bet my retirement money on any UFC fighter today against any of those guys.

[Jack Stay]

I always heard Banks shows were exhibitions (fake) . Just a big show-biz thing to promote martial arts. Big MA variety show with demos, glitter, and music.

The fact remains though, whatever he did didn't become popular while the UFC did. So apparently they learned something. I would bet my retirement money on any UFC fighter today against any of those guys.

I realize this is one of those 'what if' questions which historians discourage, but if Bruno Samartino were still in his prime, he would clean the clock of any UFC fighter.

And yes, Aaron Banks did do the big show-biz thing, but in my opinion, not to promote the martial arts, but just to exploit them. Also, his shows were not really exhibitions, those fights were real. Its just that he used a lot of hold-overs and also-rans fighting against each other. And they were watched just as closely as Royce Gracie challenging other fighting styles against his BJJ. (And his obvious victories against selected opponents.)

But I still maintain my hypothetical and unprovable assertion: If Bruno Samartino were still in his prime, Royce Gracie would not have a snowball's chance in a furnace.
_________________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[Cliff Hargrave]

But I still maintain my hypothetical and unprovable assertion: If Bruno Samartino were still in his prime, Royce Gracie would not have a snowball's chance in a furnace.


You cry about BJJ's overhyped marketing but your hero is a professional wrestler? Vince McMahon would be proud.

[Jack Stay]

You cry about BJJ's overhyped marketing but your hero is a professional wrestler? Vince McMahon would be proud.

Yes, a 1960s era professional wrestler and the Gracies would still get trounced. Using fire against fire, or rather, hype against hype.
______
John 'Jack' Stay

[Cliff Hargrave]

and Bruce Lee would pull both of their hearts out so they could see them before they died......