View Full Version : Even been a successful Kung Fu guy in UFC or any full contact MMA?
Just curious.
Brandon Coker
Just curious.
Not that I know of. There was a guy in UFC2 that billed himself as a Kung Fu student. He fought Royce and lost to an armbar. I heard rumors that the same guy had gone to the Gracie Academy for a challenge match and lost.
Mike Slosek
Kingb-
please remember that forum rules demand everyone to sign all posts with real, full name (first and last):
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Riku Ylönen
Kingb-
please remember that forum rules demand everyone to sign all posts with real, full name (first and last):
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5142
Riku Ylönen
Edited....sorry about that. I forgot. :o
Brandon Coker
John Bennett
06-28-2004, 09:28
Brandon C.
Please include your real, FULL name, first and last.
Thanks.
Brandon C.
Please include your real, FULL name, first and last.
Thanks.
Just out of curiosity, what's the purpose in posting your real first and last name?
Cliff Hargrave
06-28-2004, 10:41
Just out of curiosity, what's the purpose in posting your real first and last name?
Rules of the Webmaster
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raindown
06-28-2004, 10:48
the nature of kung fu would not be advantagous considering the rules of ufc.
no strikes to the eyes, no strikes to the throat, no strikes to the groin (i think?) . these techniques are the nature of most kung fu styles. ripping and striking the eyes and throat.
punching someone in the head until they fall over is not efective martial art. and thats why they dont really concentrate on that.
someone correct me if im wrong. (i often am)
raindown
06-28-2004, 10:49
i belive in a true no-holds(or strikes) bared fight, some forms of kung fu might be quite effective. especialy the ones like snake that do fast jabs strait to the throat.
John Bennett
06-28-2004, 11:27
i belive in a true no-holds(or strikes) bared fight, some forms of kung fu might be quite effective. especialy the ones like snake that do fast jabs strait to the throat.
That seems reasonable.
However, there have been many true no-holds-barred fights over the years which allowed such techniques and their effectiveness was not as great as one might assume.
raindown
06-28-2004, 11:47
im not sure if any completely traditional martial art can really be applied in the manner of a ufc bout. i mean, the systems of kung fu where developed for a lot of reasons beyond beating someone to death. also they where developed by bhudists, who had to add some sort of iconic natural form to them (i guess to justify the violents in them.) also, kung fu was developed by little chinese dudes =). i mean im beeing serious here. the guys in ufc are really big muscle guys. in aincient china no one ever got that big and muscely(spell?) because of no work out equipment, dietary supliment, growth hormones and dare i say steroids. Not to say that kung fu is unaplicable, or that ufc is for big dummies, im just saying they are differnt. but to be honest, if a little chinese kung fu guy coudnt beat the ufc guy the kung fu guy could choose one of his many weapons (ie duel broad swoards, or 9 section chain chain whips) and prolly beat him down. just a thought. :laugh:
ps.
i argue for the sake of argueing allot. someone stop me if i go overboard.
I am just curious is the question posed in and attempt to discredit kung fu because I dont think the UFC is a qualifying event to gauge the benifits you can recieve from training. The guys who enter that event are in top atheletic condition and they have evolved their own style of fighting for what works in that event. The UFC is a style by itself now in my oppinion. So is the Pride and KI. Three diffrerant styles each requires a diffferant type of training. I dont see any traditional style stand up or grappling haveing a lock on what works in these events.
So what is your point?
I would never try to discredit any art. That was not at all what I was trying to get at. The reason I'm asking is because I'm considering training in Wing Chun ( or some form of Kung Fu) in the near future. So I was just curious how it had held up in a full contact situation. I'm one of those guys who wants a traditional art but at the same time wants something effective in a time of need. Know what I mean? I'm weighing my options.
Brandon Coker
Luebbers
06-28-2004, 12:54
By the way, that fighter was Jason Delucia (http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=22)
I've heard that he had challenged the Gracies in Brazil and lost and had been talking trash about it later or something. That, supposedly, is why Royce put a little extra on that arm bar.
However, he went on to have a very successful MMA career in Japan in the Pancrase event. In fact, if you look at his record, he has quite a few victories due to submission, so he was apparently able to adapt his kung fu with submission wrestling and fight effectively.
raindown
06-28-2004, 12:55
again i have to interject.
ufc is not a full contact situation. its 2 people in a controled environment with rules. the pure knowledge of many weapons, acrobatics, and movement that one gains with studying kung fu would come into effect in a "real" situation. like i said, full contact doesnt just mean punchign someone in the head. it means precise strikes to vital areas that cannot be defended against by simply gaining muscle. also in a "real situation" like lets say a pool bar: i would bet that the kung fu guy knows more on how to beat someone down with a pool cue then the ufc guy.
Just puting my dimes worth out there. :wink2:
raindown
06-28-2004, 12:58
( i know im terible :p )
but one more thing. Geting someone in a figure four arm lock on a padded surface is not necesarily the best translation to a real fight. I mean, the biggest problem with intensive ground work is that no matter how hard you train, YOU CANT GRAPPLE MORE THEN ONE PERSON. while your on the ground his buddy can stomp on your head. Kung fu does a lot of training for multiple enemies. Again, this is not to say kung fu is better then ufc, its just to say that ufc is not a fair way to measure kung fu.
sean_stonehart
06-28-2004, 13:02
Reilly... how long have you studied Chinese Martial Arts?? Martial Arts in general??
raindown
06-28-2004, 13:08
ten years. for martial arts. i have only started chinese ma this year.
raindown
06-28-2004, 13:12
..............................why?
sean_stonehart
06-28-2004, 13:14
just curious... personal edification...
the nature of kung fu would not be advantagous considering the rules of ufc.
no strikes to the eyes, no strikes to the throat, no strikes to the groin (i think?) . these techniques are the nature of most kung fu styles. ripping and striking the eyes and throat.
punching someone in the head until they fall over is not efective martial art. and thats why they dont really concentrate on that.
someone correct me if im wrong. (i often am)
Its funny actually, because there is a similar debate going on over at MT. I'll say the same thing here as I've said there. Every time someone talks about MMA and the rules, its always the same thing. "Well, if I got mounted, I'd do an eye gouge." Ok..fine...but, if that is how you need to win the fight, thats pretty sad IMO. Why does it take an eye gouge or groin hit to win, considering that the stand up artist has soooo many other things that they can do. Are their punches and kicks not effective??
Limiting yourself and putting yourself at a disadvantage or into the "What If" situations only helps your training, not hurts it. I've had sparring classes where I've had the students just throw punches, just throw kicks, one person punches, the other kicks. etc.
Mike Slosek
( i know im terible :p )
but one more thing. Geting someone in a figure four arm lock on a padded surface is not necesarily the best translation to a real fight. I mean, the biggest problem with intensive ground work is that no matter how hard you train, YOU CANT GRAPPLE MORE THEN ONE PERSON. while your on the ground his buddy can stomp on your head. Kung fu does a lot of training for multiple enemies. Again, this is not to say kung fu is better then ufc, its just to say that ufc is not a fair way to measure kung fu.
Ahhh...another comeback regarding grappling vs. mult. attackers. Keep in mind that many of the grappling techs. can be applied standing as well as on the ground. Applying a choke while standing and using that person as a shield against the others sounds like a pretty good defense to me.
Mike Slosek
I would never try to discredit any art. That was not at all what I was trying to get at. The reason I'm asking is because I'm considering training in Wing Chun ( or some form of Kung Fu) in the near future. So I was just curious how it had held up in a full contact situation. I'm one of those guys who wants a traditional art but at the same time wants something effective in a time of need. Know what I mean? I'm weighing my options.
Well, since you mentioned Wing Chun-- Bruce Lee got into many street fights as a child and as an adult. He only really studied Wing Chun, and not that much of it, and he won every street fight anyone's ever discovered.
Granted, much of that was because Bruce was a fanatic, but the style didn't hurt matters. Wing Chun does work, and it does work well.
Well from what I understand (and seen in videos) Wing Chun has got some very nice hand techniques. To tell ya the truth at times it even looks similar to boxing with all the quick jabs and whatnot. I guess the best bet is to train in Wing Chun for the hands and something else for ground fighting. Wile we are talking about ground fighting, how does Japanese jujitsu compare to BJJ?
Also I was just thinking, in a street situation do you really have to worry so much about you opponent training in BJJ? I mean really...what are the odds. Sure it's better to be safe than sorry and even if he doesn't train in BJJ it really give you the upper hand....but you aren't in the UFC where everyone is training in BJJ.
Brandon Coker
Also I was just thinking, in a street situation do you really have to worry so much about you opponent training in BJJ? I mean really...what are the odds. Sure it's better to be safe than sorry and even if he doesn't train in BJJ it really give you the upper hand....but you aren't in the UFC where everyone is training in BJJ.
Well, how can you tell what background your opp. has until the fight actually starts?? As for running into a BJJ guy on the street...again, who knows. There are other grappling arts such as wrestling and judo that people train in. In addition, many times, the fight ends up in a clinch. Having an understanding of grappling will be a big help to you in that situation.
Better to be safe than sorry, IMO.
Mike Slosek
Well, how can you tell what background your opp. has until the fight actually starts?? As for running into a BJJ guy on the street...again, who knows. There are other grappling arts such as wrestling and judo that people train in. In addition, many times, the fight ends up in a clinch. Having an understanding of grappling will be a big help to you in that situation.
Better to be safe than sorry, IMO.
Mike Slosek
That's basically what I said. It is better to be safe than sorry and something like BJJ will give you the upper hand. Still now that I think about it you can't say Kung Fu isn't effective just because it hasn't done well in UFC. It's obvious that if you can ground your opponent you will have the upper hand (assuming you have some BJJ experience) ...and it's not all that hard to ground someone. Still the odds a probably fairly thin your going to run into someone with that BJJ experience on the street....then if you do go to the ground you are probably evenly matched assuming you don't have BJJ under your belt. Know what I mean? I was curious how well Kung Fu held up in UFC and now I can see other than one fighter the answer is "not very well". Still that doesn't discredit Kung Fu.
Brandon Coker
raindown
06-29-2004, 12:21
"Well, if I got mounted, I'd do an eye gouge." Ok..fine...but, if that is how you need to win the fight, that’s pretty sad IMO.
Mike Slosek
hmm... pretty sad??? hmmm...
do you mean sad as in "not cool" or , "not manly." I mean a lot of CMA train in hand positioning that is meant to strike vitals much more then just punching someone. Its more effective, and requires less work. Also, in bujinkan (yes I studied that too) we rarely threw punches, it is quicker easier and more effective to strike the throat, eye, or groin. Does that make the ninjas "wussies?" I guess if in your mind throwing precise strikes that end a fight is not "hare core enough " or in your words, "sad." then we simply disagree on the nature of martial arts.
I find it funny that bjj guys always talk about the "REAL" fight, but doing the simplest and more effective strikes are "pathetic."
Lets pretend that I want to play your game for a while: ok, so striking someone in the eye is "sad" and "not manly." how about rolling around on the ground with a guy, wearing only underwear and knee guards, wrapping your legs around him and squeezing his necks while you push your face into his chest. hmm.... Couldn’t I say,,, if we are playing this game... that if that’s the only way you can win, then that’s rather "sad".
Oh and as far as using grappling against multiple opponents.
Get anyone that has had sufficient martial arts training into a standing choke and see if they are completely oblivious on how to get out of it. While your holding on to someone’s neck and trying to fend off the other attackers they will probably do one of many things the average karateka is taught on how to obliterate someone who puts them in a standing choke. I mean cumon. I know in the movies that you grab a guy and he just flails like a rag doll but real martial artists don’t work like that. I’ve been put in a standing choke, full nelson, bear hug, Russian, and all sorts of standing grapples and I know how to get out of all of them. White belts do to. As far as being taken to the ground that’s another story. I don’t know how to get out of a choke on the ground. I don’t know how to get out of a Russian once my head hits the floor. So in that respect, I understand the validity of grappling. But to pretend you can hold one person standing and then fight the others off is just silly.
--- ok done playing your game.
ON that note,
This is my last post on Budoseek.
Things get way to combative and immature on this site.
I was simply posting my view, and I repeatedly said that I mean no disrespect to either style. but if your going to call one technique "sad", or tell me my "head is in the clouds" or any other personal attacks then its not fun any more. good bye everyone.
"ON that note,
This is my last post on Budoseek.
Things get way to combative and immature on this site.
I was simply posting my view, and I repeatedly said that I mean no disrespect to either style. but if your going to call one technique "sad", or tell me my "head is in the clouds" or any other personal attacks then its not fun any more. good bye everyone."
No need to go because of what some people say on the board. I appreciate your post...stick around.
That said, I agree. If you're talking about a real situation you'll do whatever it takes to get through it. Real world isn't UFC. If I have to bite someones damn lip or nose off to survive I'll do it.
Brandon Coker
sean_stonehart
06-29-2004, 12:57
hmm... pretty sad??? hmmm...
do you mean sad as in "not cool" or , "not manly." I mean a lot of CMA train in hand positioning that is meant to strike vitals much more then just punching someone. Its more effective, and requires less work. Also, in bujinkan (yes I studied that too) we rarely threw punches, it is quicker easier and more effective to strike the throat, eye, or groin. Does that make the ninjas "wussies?" I guess if in your mind throwing precise strikes that end a fight is not "hare core enough " or in your words, "sad." then we simply disagree on the nature of martial arts.
Really?? So you mean the 4 years I spent wearing my black gi, going to Taikai to see & train with Hatsumi... all those boshikens, koppokens, shikankens, fudokens, etc... weren't really punches?? Damn... that's disappointing.
I find it funny that bjj guys always talk about the "REAL" fight, but doing the simplest and more effective strikes are "pathetic."
Different methodology... different mindset
Lets pretend that I want to play your game for a while: ok, so striking someone in the eye is "sad" and "not manly." how about rolling around on the ground with a guy, wearing only underwear and knee guards, wrapping your legs around him and squeezing his necks while you push your face into his chest. hmm.... Couldn’t I say,,, if we are playing this game... that if that’s the only way you can win, then that’s rather "sad".
Well if I'm in a ring match, then gouging an eye is sad. If I'm in a bar dealing with a drunk, then gouging an eye is sad. If I'm fighting for me life, then it's part & parcel...
Oh and as far as using grappling against multiple opponents.
Get anyone that has had sufficient martial arts training into a standing choke and see if they are completely oblivious on how to get out of it. While your holding on to someone’s neck and trying to fend off the other attackers they will probably do one of many things the average karateka is taught on how to obliterate someone who puts them in a standing choke. I mean cumon. I know in the movies that you grab a guy and he just flails like a rag doll but real martial artists don’t work like that. I’ve been put in a standing choke, full nelson, bear hug, Russian, and all sorts of standing grapples and I know how to get out of all of them. White belts do to. As far as being taken to the ground that’s another story. I don’t know how to get out of a choke on the ground. I don’t know how to get out of a Russian once my head hits the floor. So in that respect, I understand the validity of grappling. But to pretend you can hold one person standing and then fight the others off is just silly.
:bow:
--- ok done playing your game.
Yay!!
ON that note,
This is my last post on Budoseek.
Things get way to combative and immature on this site.
I was simply posting my view, and I repeatedly said that I mean no disrespect to either style. but if your going to call one technique "sad", or tell me my "head is in the clouds" or any other personal attacks then its not fun any more. good bye everyone.
Well no... things got way too annoying to you since we didn't rush right out & tell you what you thought you wanted or expected to hear. When questioned about your experience, it comes back looking like you spent more time in front of the very movie scenarios you were dashing above...
Trust me when I say the attacks never were personal...
But Bye anyways! Have fun!
Here we go again. Step into the new millennium people.
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?s=&name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=11
Description: Kung Fu stylist challenges a MMA fighter to a no rules fight at his school. The rest, like the Kung Fu fighter, is history.
MMA does have many lightwieght fighters under 145 pounds who would whip most kung fu guys.
Here we go again. Step into the new millennium people.
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?s=&name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=11
Description: Kung Fu stylist challenges a MMA fighter to a no rules fight at his school. The rest, like the Kung Fu fighter, is history.
MMA does have many lightwieght fighters under 145 pounds who would whip most kung fu guys.
I'm all for cross training (My plain is to train in Jujitsu and Weng Chun) and Jujitsu obviously has the upper hand if they get you on the ground. In fact if you have no ground training you're basically screwed. But does that mean we shouldn't bother training in other things or that training in Kung Fu wouldn't be an advantage with someone who wasn't a MMA trainer? I don't think so.
Brandon Coker
I have not seen a Kung fu fighter that I have been impressed with.
I train in Muay Thai and GJJ with a little boxing, judo, & wraslin.
Crosstraining is good if you are going to train in competent styles. I would reccomend western boxing over Wing Chun and GJJ over most grappling styles.
hmm... pretty sad??? hmmm...
do you mean sad as in "not cool" or , "not manly." I mean a lot of CMA train in hand positioning that is meant to strike vitals much more then just punching someone. Its more effective, and requires less work. Also, in bujinkan (yes I studied that too) we rarely threw punches, it is quicker easier and more effective to strike the throat, eye, or groin. Does that make the ninjas "wussies?" I guess if in your mind throwing precise strikes that end a fight is not "hare core enough " or in your words, "sad." then we simply disagree on the nature of martial arts.
What did I mean by sad?? Let me explain. Seeing that the typical comeback from stand up guys regarding grappling is, "Well, I'll just poke em in the eye." I'm simply saying that there should be other options besides that. Again, the grappler can bite, kick, punch, poke, etc. as well. Just seems like people think that the eye shot is some secret tech...it isnt!!!! Are they good shots?? YES!! But, the grappler can do them too!
I find it funny that bjj guys always talk about the "REAL" fight, but doing the simplest and more effective strikes are "pathetic."
Again, we're talking about street vs. sport...2 very big differences here.
Lets pretend that I want to play your game for a while: ok, so striking someone in the eye is "sad" and "not manly." how about rolling around on the ground with a guy, wearing only underwear and knee guards, wrapping your legs around him and squeezing his necks while you push your face into his chest. hmm.... Couldn’t I say,,, if we are playing this game... that if that’s the only way you can win, then that’s rather "sad".
Ahh..thats the difference...it isnt the only way the BJJ guys can win.
Oh and as far as using grappling against multiple opponents.
Get anyone that has had sufficient martial arts training into a standing choke and see if they are completely oblivious on how to get out of it. While your holding on to someone’s neck and trying to fend off the other attackers they will probably do one of many things the average karateka is taught on how to obliterate someone who puts them in a standing choke. I mean cumon. I know in the movies that you grab a guy and he just flails like a rag doll but real martial artists don’t work like that. I’ve been put in a standing choke, full nelson, bear hug, Russian, and all sorts of standing grapples and I know how to get out of all of them. White belts do to. As far as being taken to the ground that’s another story. I don’t know how to get out of a choke on the ground. I don’t know how to get out of a Russian once my head hits the floor. So in that respect, I understand the validity of grappling. But to pretend you can hold one person standing and then fight the others off is just silly.
Another typical comeback...the fact remains that if you have the guy, and you're striking him, while holding...you know, doing those eye rakes...dont you think that doesnt give a little intimidation to the others watching their friend get pounded??
--- ok done playing your game.
And what game would that be???
ON that note,
This is my last post on Budoseek.
Things get way to combative and immature on this site.
I was simply posting my view, and I repeatedly said that I mean no disrespect to either style. but if your going to call one technique "sad", or tell me my "head is in the clouds" or any other personal attacks then its not fun any more. good bye everyone.
Dude, with all due respect, if you're getting this offended by some simple discussion, then I guess the forums are not for you. I've been a member on many forums and have had many verbal debates and arguments online. Its hard to get across your point at times online, but again, its a simple chat. Like you, I was posting my view. I was stating the most common comebacks to grapplers from stand up guys. I'm a stand up guy too as well as a grappler, but I'm not the one walking around talking about the 'ultimate shots'
Again, I'm NOT saying that those are bad shots, but people who say those things make it sound like if the stand up guy does not do them, then they wont win!
Mike Slosek
Here we go again. Step into the new millennium people.
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?s=&name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=11
Description: Kung Fu stylist challenges a MMA fighter to a no rules fight at his school. The rest, like the Kung Fu fighter, is history.
MMA does have many lightwieght fighters under 145 pounds who would whip most kung fu guys.
AWESOME clip!!! Thank you for posting it. Watching it, it seemed like the kung fu guy was attempting some grabs toward the face area, but with no luck. Looks like he found himself in a pretty nasty arm lock too!!
Mike Slosek
I'm all for cross training (My plain is to train in Jujitsu and Weng Chun) and Jujitsu obviously has the upper hand if they get you on the ground. In fact if you have no ground training you're basically screwed. But does that mean we shouldn't bother training in other things or that training in Kung Fu wouldn't be an advantage with someone who wasn't a MMA trainer? I don't think so.
Brandon Coker
The fight can end up on the ground regardless of if its a MMA fighter or not. Again, the 'dirty shots' that we're all talking about here do have their place. However, as I pointed out, people always talk about doing them but seem to forget that the grappler can do them also. Something to use for an example. If you're mounted, the guy on top, has more reach then the guy on the bottom. Where is that eye job going to come into play? Sure if the top man leans in, yes, there is the chance, but if you watch some MMA fights, you'll see that the bottom guy is more concerned with protecting his own face rather than thinking about his own counter strikes.
Mike Slosek
"The fight can end up on the ground regardless of if its a MMA fighter or not."
I realize that, that's why I said in a earlier post "it's better to be safe than sorry and even if he doesn't train in BJJ it really gives you the upper hand". The chances of running across and getting into it with a MMA is fairly slim I think. Not impossible but slim. Anyway, there is no doubt that if the grappler gets you on the ground you've basically lost if you have no training in ground fighting. That does not mean every single fight ends up on the ground. I've seen lots of fights (back in the good old drinking day) and many don't end up on the ground. In fact one night two of my friends got into it in my front yard and it was a one punch fight. That was it. One was standing and the other was completely knocked out in my yard with a shattered jaw. But the point is I've seen lots of fights like this. I know people say 90% of fights end up on the ground but I can honestly say from what I have seen that's just not true. From what I have seen it's more like a 50/50 thing but I guess it could just be coincidences I don't know. Anyway yeah I believe ground fighting is a must but that doesn't mean you can count out everything other that ground fighting. All I'm saying is that both have their place.
Brandon Coker
"The fight can end up on the ground regardless of if its a MMA fighter or not."
[quote] I realize that, that's why I said in a earlier post "it's better to be safe than sorry and even if he doesn't train in BJJ it really gives you the upper hand". The chances of running across and getting into it with a MMA is fairly slim I think. Not impossible but slim.
Agreed. :bow:
Anyway, there is no doubt that if the grappler gets you on the ground you've basically lost if you have no training in ground fighting. That does not mean every single fight ends up on the ground. I've seen lots of fights (back in the good old drinking day) and many don't end up on the ground.
Agreed again.
In fact one night two of my friends got into it in my front yard and it was a one punch fight. That was it. One was standing and the other was completely knocked out in my yard with a shattered jaw. But the point is I've seen lots of fights like this. I know people say 90% of fights end up on the ground but I can honestly say from what I have seen that's just not true. From what I have seen it's more like a 50/50 thing but I guess it could just be coincidences I don't know. Anyway yeah I believe ground fighting is a must but that doesn't mean you can count out everything other that ground fighting. All I'm saying is that both have their place.
And yet a 3rd time! :D Granted, while they all may not go totally to the ground, having an understanding of the clinch/standing grappling is a plus. And yes, everything does have its place.
Thanks for the chat and for discussing this in a civil manner! :bow:
Mike Slosek
In reality it was a two punch fight. Man, you should have seen my buddy laid out in my yard. It really was a sad sight. For a few moments I even thought he was dead...scared the crap out of me. He was on his back with blood coming out of each side on his mouth. After the ambulance came they asked us how many times he had been hit and I told him once. I'm not real sure they believed me but it was the truth. They said his gums were completely split in two in his lower jaw. The guy who hit him didn't go to jail because he wasn't the one to throw the first punch and when the guy with the split jaw came to the police asked him if he wanted to press charges and thankfully he said no....or more like mumbled no. His face was to swollen to speak normal. Ended up wiring his jaw almost closed for like a month. Poor guy had to blend up everything he ate in a blender. Nasty! By the way both of these guys were drunk as hell. The real thing is not as glamorous as so many people believe.
Brandon Coker
Damn!!!! Sounds like he really did get beat...bad!!! Of course like you said, the alcohol played a big part too.
Definately not glamorous, but like you said, the real deal!!
Mike Slosek
Damn!!!! Sounds like he really did get beat...bad!!! Of course like you said, the alcohol played a big part too.
Definately not glamorous, but like you said, the real deal!!
Mike Slosek
Yeah he really did. The bad thing was, after he fell to the ground I walked over to him and told him to get up and finish what he started. The guy is a good friend but he threw the first punch so I figured if you're gonna start stuff you at least try and finish it. I really didn't realize the damage that one punch did because it didn't look like he nailed him that hard. So anyway I kinda thought he was faking it a little when he hit the ground. I thought maybe he realized he might get his butt kicked. That's when I saw the blood running out of his mouth. I regret letting this happen at my house. :( Both are good friends of mine and I really should have tried to stop it but then it's kinda hard to tell your friend not to punch back after he just got popped in the face. Anyway...I'm way off topic.
Brandon Coker
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