Enigma of the "Frozen Man"

[Paul B]

All right....here goes...(rant starts now)....

Who else gets this?

Technique from a punch, attacker rears back,and throws a punch that either stops about a foot away from you, or it's a foot on either side of you, then they stand there,just kind of looking at you like, "Why didn't you do something?"

Does this drive anyone else insane? Or am I just "special" enough to get this type of behavior? Somewhere along the line, it seems some people forgot about "intent"! I must have something to work with,ya know? By not having proper intent, I have NO reason to do anything! This really drives me batty!

:ticks: :ticks: :cry: (end of rant)

So, how 'bout it...anyone else see this?



Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[stella fuentes]

:eek: what you too? it is very hard to teach intent. i get the same frustration every time especially when there is no movement. i am glad you brought this up, mr. paul b. striking or intention to strike or intention to regain even just their balance is sometimes lost and they just stand there and wait!!! :eek:
is there anyone else out there who has experienced this? any suggestions and solutions?

[Ewok85]

I love watching training where personA punches, stops a good foot awya and stands and then personB leaps into action and executes a technique.... :confused:

[Blue_driven]

I havent experineced this but i find it almost bizar that they wouldnt do anything, if you were about to get punched wouldn't you at least move?

[Paul B]

Hey guys!

Whew! So it's not only me! I usually get this with "newbies" and visitors. I understand that nobody wants to "hurt" anyone, but intent is so crucial to proper practice! I usually end up saying something like this...."I swear you won't hurt me...Please hit me...Please hit me...as hard as you want...right here! (while in middle of technique)...Thank You!! That was great!!" I find when people don't really try and "give it to me",it really wreaks havoc on my timing and positioning!

No energy+No intent=no technique

I also find it amusing when people don't try and make contact,or try..and after the initial block there is a flurry of strikes and kicks while the attacker is standing there with his arm out like a scarecrow!:rolleyes:

Best Regards,


Paul Bladen

[Sgathak]

We drill this with newbies from day one, and by the end of their first, oh, week, of slow sparring they generally dont "punch air" but we also teach comfort with pain and comfort with proximity...

The first time the new guy punches short/sideways they get this basic speach

"Punch ME... if your not aiming for ME, your not a threat and this training session is worthless to both of us. Your job is to make me move, my job is to respond to your attack. I cant do this if your not trying to hit me. Were going slow now and this isnt a competetion. If you hit me, your not going to injure me, Im pretty tough. Your not going to get hurt yourself, were going slow. So, aim for ME, hit ME, make me move or hit me in the face so I move next time... get it?"

Next week, no more attacking the air... but I dont think this approach will work for every art.

[Mike S]

All right....here goes...(rant starts now)....

Who else gets this?

Technique from a punch, attacker rears back,and throws a punch that either stops about a foot away from you, or it's a foot on either side of you, then they stand there,just kind of looking at you like, "Why didn't you do something?"

Does this drive anyone else insane? Or am I just "special" enough to get this type of behavior? Somewhere along the line, it seems some people forgot about "intent"! I must have something to work with,ya know? By not having proper intent, I have NO reason to do anything! This really drives me batty!

:ticks: :ticks: :cry: (end of rant)

So, how 'bout it...anyone else see this?



Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

Well, it looks like you're not the only one having this problem, as I encounter the same thing. Granted, with a new student, who has no control yet, you want to make sure that they have an understanding of the tech. first, and then work on getting closer with that punch.

However, I see this even with advanced students, and at that level, the person I fault is the instructor for not correcting that once they reached the intermediate/advanced levels. The same thing can be seen with grabs and chokes. At times, it looks more like the 'attacker' is giving the other guy a shoulder massage rather than a choke.

As for the punches...one of my instrucotrs puts on a glove and really thorows the punch. Again, keep in mind, that you're going to get more of a realistic feeling if you really see that attack coming at you, compared to a half assed punch that stops 3in. away from your face. I know that when he's throwing that punch, I have 2 choices.

1- move and denfend
2- get hit!

Training with a little aliveness and realism will also be a big plus.

Mike Slosek

[Ewok85]

A good way around this is to get the more experienced people paired up with the new people. Have a punch land less than an inch away from your nose is a sensation that tends to get people moving better :D

Then when defending and they are obviously missing just dont react, they feel pretty dumb punching this area off to the side of your head. Occasionally just not reacting will help gauge if people are trying to hit you or just punching :rolleyes:

[De_Franza]

What Sgathak said.
The simplest, most direct method is to switch places and actually hit them. Not hard, of course, but like "see, if you don't move, you get hit" or "see, if I'm 5 feet away, I can't reach you, so you don't have to move; if you don't "make" me move, you're wasting our time."

Try this, really exaggerate what they're doing, take 3 steps back and do your hardest, best punch from like, 10 feet (3 metres) away. Then ask "did that hurt?"

[Paul B]

I see this is a widespread phenomenon!:laugh: The little "Please hit me.." speech usually comes after the "You have to give me a reason to move!" one! I have also seen this in a few "advanced" practitioners, but they are the exception rather than the norm. Intent or "making it a committed attack" is a must for proper technique! It really gets to me when I see people just going through the motions! It is completely detrimental to one's training! Another thing I have a gripe with is unrealistic "disruption" striking, where the strike isn't "sold",and then the technique moves on as if nothing happened to give the attacker pause! Thanks everybody for your input, it's a good read!!!

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Mark Barlow]

One of my Jujutsu students is a sandan in Isshin Ryu and a very strong kicker. We teach several kick defenses and I usually used him as the Uke because I knew he would give a good attack. A few years ago while attending a national Camp, I was invited to do a demo. Since the Isshin Ryu black belt was there, I decided to show our kick counters. In front of close to 200 folks, we got up and my student proceeded to kick 6 inches to my left, 6 inches to my right or pull his kicks 6 inches in front of me. I was staggering around like an idiot trying to catch kicks that were too far away. After the 5th or 6th kick I told him to sit down and called up a teenage student who had a couple of years in TKD. He did his best to either kick my head off or put his foot through my chest, which is just what I wanted.

After a shaky start, the demo finished successfully. When I asked the Isshin Ryu guy what the hell he was doing, he said he didn't want to kick full power so I could execute the techniques really well and impress everyone. We only train full power and by "helping" me, I ended up looking like a fool. Luckily, we were able to pull if off and most of the instructors realized what happened and thought it was funny.

[Paul B]

*snicker*---oohh man! That's tough!!

It's ironic, isn't it?

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[Mark Barlow]

If by ironic you mean embarressing and depressing than, yes, it was very ironic. :laugh:

Mark

[Paul B]

LOL!--Not actually, but I like your description better!!:laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[SteyrAUG]

We solved this problem.

When doing techniques, drills or one step if the receiver does NOTHING the attacker should actually make contact (not full power or anything but a decent thump). This is crucial to establish correct distance and position and to give a more realistic expectation fo reaction time required.

Funny thing is that is the way it was always done long ago.

The "no contact - stop short" stuff is a fairly recent innovation in the MA time line.

[De_Franza]

"Best block, no be there" Mr Miyagi, The karate kid.

Yeah, the ideal to smack people if they do nothing is perfect.

My other favorite is when you do move, and your partner redirects their punch in such a way that they hit you anyway. But then again, maybe it's a hint that I'm still too slow.

[Paul B]

Grrr..."tracking"...yeah, that gets me too!

Usually happens again with newbies and "visitors" or people who just want to "counter" your technique. I stress commitment on this one i.e. one strike=one path/no change in direction in strike once it's been launched. Punch where I am, not where I am going.Because, how do you know I am going there? If this fails, I switch up entry angle/evasion without telling them. Works every time. It seems the concept of winner/loser is rooted in people who consistently do this,they don't realize that BOTH are "winners" when the technique works! (which in my case is about 20% of the time) :laugh:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[corsarius]

Damn - and I though they were missing all of the time because I move so fast!

Seriously though, this seems to happen everywhere all the time - I think it's a part of the fear of hurting people thing that folks need to get over if they want to be a part of a martial art (I always ask them what they'd do if someone attacked them in the real world - would they return with deftly executed attacks which stopped 6 inches away from the target?)

[Chris Wade]

LOL. Isn't this usually the same uke that drops to the floor without being touched or having the defense properly executed?

I love it when uke attacks and tori defends with a WEAK and/or improperly executed defense but uke drops to the floor, jumps into the throw and throws themselves, or some other equally ridiculous, and blatantly obvious, motion.

[wab25]

I like to just stand there, when they are punching around me. If they don't get the idea, I ask them to hit me, then I let them hit me. I don't do the technique until they hit me. Then on the next time, I do the technique as the hit me. Sometimes, I will be trading techniques with someone, and try to pick out when he is pulling, and just stand there for that one that he is pulling. It really helps me learn distancing and intent. And I think its a good thing for martial artists to get hit in practice every once in a while. It helps you learn what a punch feels like, and that you can keep going after getting hit.

[Abbax8]

I'm sorry. I've been doing it wrong all these years. As uke stands there and says, " Now what do you do" with their arm sticking out, I usually grab the wrist, twist, kick the knee and drive my knee into their face, all in the same slow motion they did. Then I tell them that since they were being nice I took it easy. If I wanted to be nasty this is what I do. Usually as I reach for them they remember an appointment they are late for.

Peace
Dennis

[Oz82]

And I think its a good thing for martial artists to get hit in practice every once in a while. It helps you learn what a punch feels like, and that you can keep going after getting hit.
Agreed, and it also gives you incentive to get it right so you DON'T get hit!

[Paul B]

LOL! So true... in Saturday's morning class we were working on kick defenses,from a sidekick..ton's-o-fun! So..I moved early and got tagged with a nice shot to the ribs! :eek:

It (being whacked) will definitely improve your focus and timing! :laugh:

I have to admit it had been a while since my last "whacking", so I was a little shocked but I had to laugh about it afterwards. Just a little "reality check" ya know?!!!

Timing...Timing...Timing.... :ticks:

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen--Midwest Hapkido Group--Hanminjok Hapkido