Best martial art?

[rdog157h]

Hello,

I am thinking of taking some form of martial art but I dont know which one is actually worth taking. I want one that can actually be used for real life self defense. It all seems chorographed, but maybe someone can tell me about one that can be used outside the dojo. In my area they offer Kempo Karate, Jeet kun do, jujitsu,tak won do and a few others.

[Keegs]

If you do a search on the forums, you'll see a lot of threads like this one. I'll list some of the things that others have posted, but read the other threads too as they may give you a good idea. Pretty much, it depends on you. Your body type, etc. Are you better/more comfortable with striking or grappling? How are the schools in your area? Visit them and see which one you like the most, what you will stick with, and size up the teacher and go with your gut. Most of these places have a free class or a month/week trial. Try as many out as you can.

As far as being the best martial art? everyone here will tell you there is no best one (except the one that's best for YOU). All have strengths/weaknesses. You'll get out of it what you put into it.

I'm new to this stuff as well, so I was reading up on all of these posts. They will help you decide, but it's up to you for the final decision.

Good luck!

[Erik]

For practical fighting I would suggest Muay Thai and either Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (if you live somewhere cold enough that people wear coats or robust collared shirts) or Submission Wrestling (if you live somewhere where people wear t-shirts and shorts, like So. California). If you don't have access to either of these, try a judo club that does a lot of groundfighting, and if there is no Muay Thai where you live, try boxing or kickboxing (not Tae Bo, but real, full-contact).

This will give you excellent striking capability and sound groundfighting skills - a solid, well rounded game.

Keep one thing in mind, however: these styles HURT. You will get in shape but you will accrue so many injuries that you will wonder if it is worth it.

But that's as close to real fighting as you will get.

[SteyrAUG]

The best one will be the one that you are most particularly suited for and that you train the hardest in.

A "best" style does not exist. If it did, it would be the only one.

[Ju-Jack-su]

I suggest you learn ballet. Nobody can jump as high as a ballet dancer

[Ju-Jack-su]

also i think that nobody really finds the best martial art for them until you have tried out a few of the many avalible.

[corsarius]

It seems like you have a decent number of options to try at least. Any of the arts you mentioned CAN be used effectively for self defence. Whether or not the schools you mentioned actually teach it in such a way is another question entirely.

Your best bet would be to do some research into each of these arts, then to try out the schools and judge for yourself which one suits you the best. Talk to the instructor, talk to the students, and use your common sense - avoid long term contracts or promises of a black belt in a specific time period.

Of the choices you have, I'd be inclined to give jujitsu a try, but I'm biased and when it comes down to it jujitsu is just a susceptible to dodgy instructors as any other art. You may find with both karate & tae kwon do, hwoever, that there is a significant amount of the "choreography" you mention, in the form of kata, or "forms". Neither jujitsu nor jeet kune do, however, include these kind of forms as such.

[Jeff Burger]

Alot will depend on the teacher but going by style Id say go for JKD or Jujitsu.

Jeff

[rdog157h]

I probally shouldve worded my queston differently. I know there are many styles out there and there is not one art that is better than the next. I am just looking for something that can best be used on the streets, not for competition, or show. I have a deep interest in kyusho-jitsu but unfortunatly I cant find a dojo that teaches it nearby.Thanks for all the replies.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I am just looking for something that can best be used on the streets



I have a deep interest in kyusho-jitsu


I am afraid your goals are contradictory.

[rdog157h]

How do they contridict? Kyusho is not offered in my area! Thats the only form I have seen thats to be effective outside the dojo. Like I said its not offered in my area.I stated that I am looking for a martial art that can be applied outside the dojo,I gave examples of some of the arts offered in my area got good response.So I am looking into jkd and Braziallian Jujitsu based on the response.

[SteyrAUG]

I am afraid your goals are contradictory.

Not necessarily.

[riku]

rdog-
remember that forum has rule demaning everyone sign all posts with real name, or have nic that includes the name:
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5142

respect it.

Riku Ylönen

[Cliff Hargrave]

Not necessarily.

In the "World according to Cliff" they are.

[kirigirisu]

Not necessarily.

I would say for our boy M.C. :n00b:, with nary any experience at all, more likely not than likely.

Kyushojitsu is the frosting on the cake, not the cake itself.

Young grasshopper wants a fully decked out, 7-tiered cake that would make Paris Hilton's five-figure birthday pastry look like a day-old fruit tart.

Our boy gots to learn how to bake first, otherwise all the esoteric "Inappropriate Touch" stuff will most likely fail when he tries to use it "on da street, fo'shizzle."

Back when I was studying Ryu-te (Ryukyu Kempo (Oyata) back in the day, yo) after spending my misguided youth dealing with a Shotokan infatuation, I remember doing a whole butload of drills and kata and whatnot, then the bogu kumite stuff and then the kata applications before starting on the Kyushojitsu and Tuitejitsu applications within the kata applications (that's how I remember it, anyway. Lost quite a number of brain cells during my ground-n-pound, skull-n-knuckle days in the mid to late 90's. The wine, women, and song didn't help, either).

That took up some of my high school and most-to-all of my college career.

Good stuff.

Anyhoo, after all that, I still didn't think I was so-called "street ready."

In the end, tuite and kusho-jitsu (jutsu?) is one of those neat little tools you can use to create all sort of interesting openings and pain compliances and what not, but only if'n you have the skill and luck and presence of mind in the given dynamic situation of a so-called "street fight" to pull it off.

Not very likely with the adrenaline dump.

And the sinking feeling that, strategically and tactically, you messed up about five steps ago to have put yourself in the situation in the first place.

And multiple socially maladjusted miscreants who don't "wagon train" up like you see in Steven Segal movies but will dog-pile or bum rush you en masse.

The ones that don't shoot or shiv you first.

Or bean you upside your melon with an attitude adjuster.

Multiple times.

Unless you train for it.

And even then...

The moral of this long, rambling bit:

Learn to bake your cake, first, young grasshopper.

Frost it afterwards.

Bill Tai
Using lame pastry analogies to edumakate da young'uns since 3:30 AM P.D.T. :D

[SteyrAUG]

In the "World according to Cliff" they are.


Let me translate it into your world.

It's all about intent and training.

You can even take sporting endevours like boxing and tae kwon do (hell even football) and if you practice them with true intent and train for the real thing you will have an effective means of defense.

Conversely you can study BJJ and JKD for a couple hours a week and then go home and watch TV and still have just enough overall skill to get your butt kicked 99% of the time if you don't train with intent.

[Ramirez]

I am not sure if there is a "best" art - but I always recommend Judo for a start. Judo is the basis for a lot of combat arts, its closely related to BJJ if your interests lead you there, randori is about as close as you will get to a full resisting opponent. Judo is also on of the most legitimate arts - you won't see Joe "Iron Fist" Lee's school of Judo, its not flashy enough. Plus when you have been to a few tournaments you will know if a technique is BS when you see it in another art.

Also kickboxing - if you are more interested in striking, or good old fashioned American boxing, greco roman wrestling...any art with a sporting aspect.

I know some will disagree with me but I think you really need the sporting aspect to get used to being hit, grabbed, choked, kneed, headbutted and doing the same to someone else, and the general chaos of a conflict.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I know some will disagree with me but I think you really need the sporting aspect to get used to being hit, grabbed, choked, kneed, headbutted and doing the same to someone else, and the general chaos of a conflict.

I agree with you.

[Jack Stay]

Let me translate it into your world.

It's all about intent and training.

You can even take sporting endevours like boxing and tae kwon do (hell even football) and if you practice them with true intent and train for the real thing you will have an effective means of defense.

Conversely you can study BJJ and JKD for a couple hours a week and then go home and watch TV and still have just enough overall skill to get your butt kicked 99% of the time if you don't train with intent.


"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog" ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

______________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[SteyrAUG]

I agree with you.


I don't practice for a sporting purpose and we get hit all the time.

We get hit in the course of training for reality not in an effort to score a point.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Does your training involve any all-out, full speed stuff? It's not going for points that is beneficial, but the full speed training. You can do it without going for points. Sporting styles do alot more full speed, dynamic training. It's just that there are many marital arts that do not do ANY full speed stuff and are content with kata and pre arranged drills.

Age old debate:

Do you practice "deadly" stuff in kata while never knowing if you can pull it off, or do you practice "safer", higher percentage moves full speed against resisting opponents.

I say for self defense you need both, but the scale should tip towards the full speed side.

Kano set the stage..........

[SteyrAUG]

Does your training involve any all-out, full speed stuff?

Of course. I am of the opinion that one cannot truly learn a martial art without a reliable frame of referrence. And we go far beyond the bounds of so called "traditional" jiyu kumite.

What you have to understand is that the majority of so called "traditional" dojo aren't. The traditions are mostly a product of Japanese reformation from the original Okinawan "jutsu" to a Mainland "do" in the 1930s. Sadly many practioneers even in Okinawa followed suit and modernized their methods of training and practice along the Funakoshi template which was so popular. This is in stark contrast to the "true" traditions which were more accurately represented by people like Choki Motobu.

What we try and practice is a martial art with modern organization and standards (as promoted by Funakoshi) with all the practical realism, technique and training of the true "traditions" (as promoted by Motobu). Incidentally these two men did not think much of each other. Motobu felt Funakoshi was something of a fraud who is only capable of pretty "kata", and Funakoshi felt Motobu was nothing but a brawling moron who gave Karate a bad name.




It's not going for points that is beneficial, but the full speed training. You can do it without going for points. Sporting styles do alot more full speed, dynamic training. It's just that there are many marital arts that do not do ANY full speed stuff and are content with kata and pre arranged drills.

Well specifically I was referring to things like "sport" tae kwon do where even though it is full speed with impact it has become devoid of any practical martial content. Sure they hit each other but things like punches to the face are not legal. That creates a dangerous habit to be accustomed to. And just as pointless as someone who does kata but never gets hit and doesn't know what it is like to actually hit a person. I don't feel either is true martial art.

And I think we are on the same page and just clarifying our positions.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Well specifically I was referring to things like "sport" tae kwon do where even though it is full speed with impact it has become devoid of any practical martial content.

And I think we are on the same page and just clarifying our positions.

Yea we are on the same thought pattern. I was thinking BJJ or kickboxing when I was thinking about sport. TKD never even entered my mind because I thought were talking about "martial arts." :wink2:

[sapper6]

TKD never even entered my mind because I thought were talking about "martial arts." :wink2:

that is absolutely the best way i've ever heard that referenced :bow:

C. Clifford

[Ramirez]

Hey Rich - I was thinking BJJ, Judo, MMA, kickboxing too. If you train under realistic conditions then good - that is what I was getting at.

I have a problem with the arts that say "This technique will break a neck if you apply force" - I always wonder just how they know that, the must have run through quite a few students perfecting that technique.

[SteyrAUG]

Hey Rich - I was thinking BJJ, Judo, MMA, kickboxing too. If you train under realistic conditions then good - that is what I was getting at.

I have a problem with the arts that say "This technique will break a neck if you apply force" - I always wonder just how they know that, the must have run through quite a few students perfecting that technique.


Yeah, usually the same guys who think upward palms to the nose will force cartilidge into the brain producing a lethal blow.

But at the same time if you actually develop real technique you have a basic idea of if you hit hard enough to break a neck. For example I don't actually have to break joints to know my arm locks are capable of it.

And of course this is where inanimate objects come in. If you need to replant a makiwara every year because you snap it off at the base eventually it is reasonable to assume you can knock the average man out of a stance. If you can side kick through a 2x4 leaning against a wall it is reasonable to assume you can greatly damage or break a support leg. And if you can front hand jab and break a suspended 12x12 1" board you probably have enough focus to stun a person greatly.