View Full Version : Steven seagal aikido??
freebie614
08-02-2004, 17:21
ok here is my question,. i know movies are movies and most of the time they are completly fake,. but i know that steven seagal is a blackbelt in aikido,. is the stuff he does in the movies real aikido?,. is it anything like that??,.
side note,. cause it's BADASS!!
Tim O'Banion
Jack Stay
08-02-2004, 18:11
ok here is my question,. i know movies are movies and most of the time they are completly fake,. but i know that steven seagal is a blackbelt in aikido,. is the stuff he does in the movies real aikido?,. is it anything like that??,.
side note,. cause it's BADASS!!
Tim O'Banion
Hello Tim:
Steve Seagal is doing real Aikido in his movies, actually more like Aikijitsu.
Steven Seagal studied Koichi Tohei style Aikido in Southern California before moving to Osaka Japan, then teaching at his wife's family dojo, where he was promoted.
Aikido is highly defensive in nature, therefore an attack must be initiated before you can re-direct your opponents energy against him. A lot of the nasty swearing in the movie by Seagal's character was done to instigate an attack by the bad guy so the appropriate Aikido technique could be done.
In real life, when a wrist techniqe is applied, the bad guy does not do a spectacular ukemi (right shoulder roll in the air) but merely crumples to the ground in shrieking agony. A lot of the stunt men in Seagal's movies complained about his unnecessary roughness.
For more detailed information, please visit:
http://www.journaled.com/MA/Aikido/SSeagal/main.htm
__________________
John 'Jack' Stay
Nidan - Judo
Nidan - Hakko-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu
He does aiki-jitsu or aiki-jiujitsu (forgive the spelling). It's the parent art of aikido.
As for the difference, there's an interesting thread around here about the differences between a "do" and a "jitsu" which seem to describe the differences between aikido and aiki-jitsu reasonably well.
But don't forget - it's just the movies.
Edit: whoops, they guy's text above mine was correct. Sorry.
Jay Bell
08-02-2004, 18:22
To clarify something, Seagal does not do Aikijujutsu, as he has never studied Aikijujutsu. His interpretation of Aikido on film is more breaky and less passive, giving it a more "AikiJJ" feel..
Peter Rehse
08-03-2004, 01:58
To clarify something, Seagal does not do Aikijujutsu, as he has never studied Aikijujutsu. His interpretation of Aikido on film is more breaky and less passive, giving it a more "AikiJJ" feel..
The difference between Aikido and Aikijujutsu is never so simple.
Steven Seagal actually has a 7th Dan within the Aikikia and taught in Japan for 15 years. Back then he was known more for his size than the quality of his Aikido but still he knows more than a little. I understand while there he also took Dan rankings in Karate, Judo and Kendo - which I have no trouble believing.
Personally I have issues with much of Seagals self serving stories of his time in Japan but I will give him his due.
Beleive it or not this russian moviestar, isn't half bad...If you go onto limewire or kazaa, you can download some of his videos.
Dennis Monk
11-26-2004, 09:04
Beleive it or not this russian moviestar, isn't half bad...If you go onto limewire or kazaa, you can download some of his videos.
What Russian?
i thought he was russian?
Mikey Triangles
11-26-2004, 22:07
i thought he was russian?
Really? He doesn't seem Russian.... anyway, I know that Shihan Steven Seagal does do real Aikido, my teacher trained with him on many occasions.
I found that video i was talkinga bout in an earlier post
http://tadspot.typepad.com/tadspot/2004/08/cool_aikido_vid.html
Click on SS_Aikido.mpg (video/mpeg Object)
As martial arts actors go, Steven Seagal is about as real as it gets. As mentioned before hand, his main art is aikido, but he also incorporates many skills from this other arts into one badass dirty-as-I-wanna-be system :wink2:
Oh...p.s...I really don't think Seagal is, or has even trained in Russia. He was born in like Missouri or something.
JesseThornton
07-08-2005, 06:23
Beleive it or not this russian moviestar, isn't half bad...If you go onto limewire or kazaa, you can download some of his videos.
I will have to check it out.. Remember you are 15... :bow:
AikidoLady2005
07-08-2005, 09:41
In the beginning of Above the Law and Hard to Kill, there are a couple of scenes where you will see him doing actual aikido -- Aikikai Aikido and not Aikijujutsu. But other than those couple of scenes it's just Hollywood. In his later movies, his moves are just movie martial arts.
Anne Marie Giri
Correct me if im wrong but i believe Steven Seagal does Takemusu Aikido.
Iv'e head Takemusu sensei say he teaches the Seagal style.
tonysoprano
07-21-2005, 10:00
he is the head of the tenshin which he started himself i believe. a for takemusu aiki it aint a real style more a term the founder used for what true aikido was or aikido in its highest levels such as the founders.
Although Iwama Aikido is also called takemusu aikido as that is what osensei would call it in iwama,
Although he does follow isayama(bad spelling) sensie, so maybe he calls his art that, plus he is an old Iwama student so maybe he just uses that name, after all we are all aiming to reach takemusu aiki are we not?
AikidoLady2005
07-21-2005, 21:34
If you want to know more about Segal Sensei you need to go to Aikido Journal. Aikido Journal is a very reputable site among the aikido community and is run by Stanley Pranin who is respected for his thorough reseach of the history of Aikido. You can search the forums on Aikido Journal for find out more information about him and how many aikidoka think about him.
Steven Segal's Bio on Aikido Journal (http://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia.php?entryID=581)
You will find schools that are affilated with his teachings referring to themselves as "Tenshin Aikido." Schools affiliated to Saito Sensei often refer to themselves as "Takemusu Aikido", but the "takemusu" term is not restricted to "Iwama" or Saito Sensei's style of aikido.
Anne Marie Giri
Aikitech
07-21-2005, 22:58
Welcome to Budoseek Anne Marie.
Good to see another Aikiweb person here.
:bow:
tonysoprano
07-22-2005, 04:18
You will find schools that are affilated with his teachings referring to themselves as "Tenshin Aikido." Schools affiliated to Saito Sensei often refer to themselves as "Takemusu Aikido", but the "takemusu" term is not restricted to "Iwama" or Saito Sensei's style of aikido.
sorry i did not mean it to sound like the term is only used in Iwama,of course its used all over, i meant to put it that the term was really born in Iwama, according to saito sensei.
AikidoLady2005
07-24-2005, 23:25
sorry i did not mean it to sound like the term is only used in Iwama,of course its used all over, i meant to put it that the term was really born in Iwama, according to saito sensei.
No offense, Tony. It just seems like the term here is getting mixed up with "Tenshin Aikido." I hope the folks here asking about his background check out www.aikiweb.com and www.aikidojournal.com They can do some searches on those forums and find a lot more accurate information on Segal Sensei and even hear from those who have practiced under his "style," which I still believe the schools are Aikikai Hombu affiliated and not to any aikijujutsu koryu association.
Anne Marie Giri
(P.S. Hi Aikitech, it's good to see you, too.)
Archimedes
07-27-2005, 02:16
It's been said, though, that Seagal's shime-waza defense is lacking.
He does aiki-jitsu or aiki-jiujitsu (forgive the spelling). It's the parent art of aikido.
As for the difference, there's an interesting thread around here about the differences between a "do" and a "jitsu" which seem to describe the differences between aikido and aiki-jitsu reasonably well.
As Peter rightly pointed out the difference between aikido and aikijujutsu is not so simple and is not just a matter of having different aims and doing things in a rougher more brutal way.They are different arts and Seagal studied aikido and never studied Daito-ryu aikijujutsu. (Aikijitsu is not the name of the art in Japan.)
I travelled by Seagal's dojo at Juso everyday while living in Japan. I heard things about Seagal there unfortunately very few of them complimentary. (Mostly about him as a person and not his aikido.)
Aikido_Girl918
08-01-2005, 19:02
ok here is my question,. i know movies are movies and most of the time they are completly fake,. but i know that steven seagal is a blackbelt in aikido,. is the stuff he does in the movies real aikido?,. is it anything like that??,.
side note,. cause it's BADASS!!
Tim O'Banion
yes, it is real, we have watched those movies to learn how to do moves better that we have been doing forever by watching behind the scenes tapes
Archimedes
08-04-2005, 12:03
It's kinda crappy.....
Literally crappy? As in soiling one's pantaloons?
http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&TID=556050&FID=1
Peter Rehse
08-05-2005, 00:36
I'm proud to say that I did not void the one time I was choked out BUT its happened to better men then I - you just never know. Maybe the next time I'll let loose - again you never know. The vagal nerve is a tricky thing.
Reading those posts in mma I don't see much info about what really happened just a whole lot of fantasy posts. I doubt very much the even was either a MMA type fight that one person suggests or a sneak attack suggested by another.
Who was that famous Judoka who said he made sure that before he went to any competition he got all of his personal affairs in order in case he ended up dead on crippled?
Maybe he also made sure he emptied himself of all negative matter. :)
BaronVonBeatdown
08-05-2005, 23:24
I'm proud to say that I did not void the one time I was choked out BUT its happened to better men then I - you just never know. Maybe the next time I'll let loose - again you never know. The vagal nerve is a tricky thing.
Reading those posts in mma I don't see much info about what really happened just a whole lot of fantasy posts. I doubt very much the even was either a MMA type fight that one person suggests or a sneak attack suggested by another.
Peter old chap, had you paid particular attention to the thread you would have noted this post by an associate of one Gene Lebell (who choked Steven Seagal unconscious) who speaks at Gene's behest due to the binding lawsuit/agreement between Mr Lebell and Mr Seagal.
"From: MarkT
Date: 06/18/05 02:34 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
90 Total Posts Ignore User
Last edited:18-Jun-05 02:37 PM
Well....
I have known "Uncle Gene" for a long time. I also have spent over two hours on the phone with Bob Wall on this subject.
Seagal had hurt some people, on the set, and that is simply not professional.
He was holding court about his Aikido skills and the choke thing came up.
Let me interject here that I was at one of those "Combat Ki" clinics years ago, and people there REALLY BELIEVED that if I tried to cut them with my knife, I would dull the blade! I pointed out I didn't plan to hit bone. They too make the choke claim, and EVERY one of them who steped up went to sleep. Wow, shocking.
Anyway, when Steven made the claim, Gene said "I'll take that bet". Gene put the ckoke on, Seagal taped and said he wasn't ready. Gene said let me know when you are ready. Seagal said ready, but when Gene went to put the choke on, Seagal tucked his chin and went for Gene's groin.
Gene switched to a neck crank, took him down, finished it with a choke on the ground, and held it till Steven went night night, and yes, he made a do-do and a pee-pee.
Steven had Gene thrown off the set, blacklisted, and filed a lawsuit. Gene did suffer for a time...
...til the Inquirer ran a story about the event.
Steven felt it better to have silence so dropped everything under the condiiton that Gene NOT speak of the event.
So people like Bob Wall does it for him.
PS Bob Wall has called Steven out for years, but Steve won't play.
Mark Tripp"
This is an accurate account of what transpired, should you need to verify this Mark Tripp is available on most of the Judo forums and most likely this very forum.
The Baron Von Beatdown of Beeftown, Esq.
BaronVonBeatdown
08-06-2005, 03:52
An Interview With Stephen Quadros - Fight Trainer / Advisor On "Exit Wounds" (Excerpt)
Many people say that Seagal is hard to work with. Did you find this to be true?
I was hoping you wouldn't ask that question. But, since you did ... (laughs) He is on his own wave length, let's just put it that way. Before filming started Dion Lam had co-ordinated all the major fight scenes that involved Seagal with his double, Joe Bucaro, and DMX's double Errol G. All the producers came to Toronto to sit with Seagal to watch, critique and possibly change the fight scenes. The 2 stunt guys ran through the fights and everyone, including Seagal agreed they would work fine. Well a month and a half later it was time to shoot the fight scene with Seagal and DMX. Dion's guys ran through the same fight scene to remind Steven and DMX of the moves. Suddenly Seagal said these moves would not work and they had to change things to fit his 'style'. Then for at least an hour, Seagal, Dion Lam, director Andrej Bartkowiak and co-producer Dan Crachiollo argued and yelled at each other. Seagal left the set then came back and they started working on the fight scene, exactly as choreographed by Dion! Unfortunately Segal injured DMX's shoulder during the fight so X had to take a few days off. Another time we were filming this scene in this strip club with hundreds of extras. Seagal would show up late, shoot one take then while they were resetting the lights he would leave the set and get shuttled back to his trailer. Moments later people on the set would be looking for him to do the next shot but he wasn't there. So they had to call him back in his trailer EACH TIME. The whole journey back and forth between shots took at least 20 minutes minimum and we were getting way behind. Finally one of the producers called Seagal on his cell phone and just SCREAMED at him. The whole thing was like a Saturday Night Live parody. But it was real. They had to add a whole extra day of shooting in the club which, when you consider camera crew, lighting, building rental, food, extras, actors, it get kind of expensive to say the least.
What kind of interaction did you and Seagal have? OK, if you have to know ... I had heard all the horror stories about how he would hurt actors and stunt performers, dislocated shoulders, kick guys in the nuts to see if they were wearing cups, etc. I had heard about Gene LeBell. So 2 weeks before we started shooting I was training DMX on the soundstage one and Seagal showed up and was throwing a few guys around on some mats on the other side of the stage. So I waited till he was finished and walked over and introduced myself. I figured why wait, he's going to see me around anyway. But I wasn't wearing a cup. I had left it in L.A.!!! So I stood kind of sideways just in case he decided to suddenly kick me in the family jewels. During the conversation he moved to where he was standing square with me. So while I was chatting with him I slowly moved back to where I was semi sideways again. He moved again to square up with me. I'm thinking, "This is not happening." So I switch to where my right foot was forward, turning sideways again the other direction. I was doing this very subtly. He had that 'look' in his eyes as he squared up with me again. I smiled, folded my hands in front of my groin and said I had to get going and walked away. It was VERY weird.
cont...
BaronVonBeatdown
08-06-2005, 03:55
Another time I told him I worked as commentator for the Pride Fighting Championships in Japan. I was wearing the Grupo Chute Boxe t-shirt that Vanderlei Silva had given to me after he defeated Bob Schreiber in the January 2000 Pride. Seagal told me he didn't think the fighters in Pride were very good and that he couldn't understand why Kazushi Sakuraba kept winning because he thought he was not very good either. I obviously didn't agree but felt it was not the time or place to get into it with Seagal. So I said, "But at least they test themselves on a regular basis." Then I told him I had heard that he had a student who he thought could defeat Sakuraba. He said he did. I said if he needed help putting the match together I may be able to help him but his guy might be asked to get some experience before going to Japan. We never spoke on the subject after that. I asked him if he would like for me to conduct an interview with him for Black Belt magazine. He declined.
I kind of steered clear of him for the most part. But one time he came on the set and started walking right towards me. I thought, "****, I don't have my cup on!" So he walks close to me and my radar was up. Then he grabbed my wrist. I am not an Aikido guy and I'm not saying I am better than Seagal at wrist locks but my first instructor was Korean and had taught us Hapkido which included many techniques that were similar to Aikido. So I reversed his grab to were my hand was on his wrist. He grabbed the same wrist with his other hand. I reversed him again. This little game went on for about a minute. I was really trying not to upstage the guy because on a movie set it's a no win situation to do that to the star, especially him. But I for sure was not going to let him get me into a compromising position physically. I know guys he has hurt to the point of having to have surgery. He suddenly stopped and pointed at me and said, "You're good." I didn't know what to say so I just smiled. He walked away.
The Baron Von Beatdown of Beeftown, Esq.
Archimedes
08-06-2005, 18:20
[QUOTE=BaronVonBeatdown]Seagal told me he didn't think the fighters in Pride were very good and that he couldn't understand why Kazushi Sakuraba kept winning because he thought he was not very good either.
Good God!
James O'Neill
08-06-2005, 19:15
Interesting. And entertaining too...
BTW, I didn't know that Stephen Quadros had Hapkido training - Cool - that was interesting indeed!
Peter Rehse
08-08-2005, 00:24
I know people who had direct contact with SS while he was in Japan and have no problem believing the arrogance and mouth attributed to the guy. He somehow equated size with skill (not the first to do so and not the last) and got into trouble more than once. His main teacher in Japan is a bit of a mystic junky and I guess so is SS. The Aikido guys he had problems with were not.
I also know of one person who claims to be there that takes exception to the above story or at least the emphasis but he was one of SS's students. Now who do we believe - basically it's your choice. I personally would go for the Gene friend version mainly because of the poetic irony of it all. Not because one is more or less honest, or biased, or better story teller.
So here is what we can say happend.
Mouthy action hero star (MAHS) twice voluntarily puts himself in a position for a rear choke by a guy who doesn't take lightly to MAHSs. The first time ended with a tap as it should, the second had MAHS trying something outside the agreed parameters - forget the tap.
I enjoy the story because MAHS was stupid enough to put himself in that position. My point for posting is the apparent glee people have because SS lost a bit of control when it could just as easily have been them. Like I said the vagal nerve is a tricky beast.
Well, actually as with most martial arts situations things are not as they appear. Master Seagall claimed he could defend against any technique applied on him. He defended agaisnt Gene Lebell's choke by the little known dung fu technique called the "exploding skunk in pants". It was effective becuase it caused Mr. Lebell to let go.
I asked my Ki no Kenkyukai Aikido Sensei , and he said that Seagal's Aikido is not aikido (from my sensei's point of view). And he said again, where is the ki ... We need to use our Ki and feel ki from our opponent... not just a brute wrist lock and break people's wrist in 1 s. We need to respect ki from our opponent , not against it like Seagal did . For him, Seagal's technique seem like Jujitsu or Shorinji Kempo, where the wrist locks are applied to make the opponent hurts and forces him to tap out. That is not Aikido at all.
I was speechless. :D
Maxwell
Yeah, Seagal is an actor who studied martial arts. Sometimes he thinks he is a fighter though and must be reminded that he is not one of the charachters off his movies. A lot of people think he is a real bad dude because of his fight chorographies and apparantly this caused him to believe it himself. I really cant understand what he was thinkin because from what I understand aikido was developed by a martial artist who wanted to develop a style to defend yourself without hurting the attacker. So it works agaisnt most of the population but not really very well agaisnt a trained martial artist especially of the calliber of Gene Lebell.
I have an old home video of a Seagal seminar, his technqiue was excellent. I saw a taped demonstration he did at an All Japan event, also excellent. He does hold rank in the Aikikai. I have trained with a couple of his students, excellent. Don't take his movies as a presenation of his Aikido.
Mr. Seagal has done a lot for Akido but I'm not so sure he has contributed to martial arts overall. Sure more people enroll in Akido class but they think they are going to be like one of Steven Seagal's charachters in his films. If he used real Akido in his films I'm not sure he would ever have been a movie star. I believe that his fame went to his head and he began believing he was like the guy in Above the Law. His false sense of superiority led to him wetting himself when he tested his skills agaisnt another well trained martial artist with over 50 years of experience. The same people who watched his films and went to enroll in Akido may meet the same fate if they are not taught the virtue of humility. Mr. Seagal is guilty of false advertising and some practicioners may get an unrealistic perception of thier skill in defending themselves. They may be more likely to get involved in a physical altercation because they are overconfident much like Mr. Seagal himself. Overall this discredits martial arts because the general public doesnt know the difference between Akido and Kung Fu.
Peter Rehse
02-22-2006, 23:08
Yawn.
Going to a couple of Aikido classes with a mistaken impression is not going to make a huge difference.
Yaaaaaaawn part two....
And Another Seagal thread with the exact same comments about Judo Gene Lebell and the various arrogant transgressions of his movie star super-ego will hopefully wind it's way to a close soon...
William Hazen
Peter Rehse
02-23-2006, 01:26
Yeah I can't take the boredom anymore - but I can close the thread.
Bwahahahaaahahahahaha
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