Shotokan book opinion.

[Jack Stay]

I'd be interested in the opinion of any devotee of Shotokan karate on these two books:
1.) 'KARATE-DO: My Way of Life' by Gichin Funakoshi, and;

2.)'KARATE JUTSU: The Original Teachings of Gichin Funakoshi' by Gichin Funakoshi and John Teramoto.

Thanks!
_____________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[n2shotokai]

I enjoyed "My Way of Life" but found myself wanting more.

[De_Franza]

Havn't read the second, so can't comment on it, but I did enjoy "Karate-do, my way of life". It's an autobiography, so not much instruction to be found. I'ts a good quick read, so I'd say go for it. even if you don't like it, you can finish it in a day or two and move on.

[Webmaster]

I have the books by Funakoshi Sensei, but an important consideration is what type of Shotokan are you looking for? Let me explain. What you are really looking for if you want a technical Shotokan book is Karatedo Kyohan: The Master Text (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870111906/qid=1092105249/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-5010206-9438567?v=glance&s=books). The Karatedo you will see in this book is NOT the Shotokan as commonly taught today. Rather, it is the Karate with most of the Okinawan influences still intact. Later, Shotokan took on a more Japanese "flavor" with lower stances, etc. If you are looking for two alternatives, here are my suggestions:

Dynamic Karate (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0685219356/qid=1092105539/sr=1-30/ref=sr_1_30/102-5010206-9438567?v=glance&s=books) by M. Nakayama. Out of print, but you can find used copies. This is probably the finish technical Shotokan Karatedo book ever written. It gets really into the body mechanics and explains in great details WHY certain waza work and how to make yours more effective. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this book for any serious student of Karate, regardless of their particular style. BTW, I have two copies of this book (for insurance), and it is in my "do not loan" list, and I consider them to be amongst my most prized books.

The Heart of Karate-Do (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770024770/qid=1092105834/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-5010206-9438567?v=glance&s=books). This is another excellent book, but rather then concentrating on JKA (Japan Karate Association) flavor of Shotokan as in the above book, it was written by Shigeru Egami, who was one of Funkakoshi Sensei's most senior student. It represents a "sub-style" of Shotokan called Shotokai. The "flavor" of Shotokai is more like the older Okinawan type Karatedo, and as a Shorin-ryu guy, I personally like this approach better. Another excellent addition to any library.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

[n2shotokai]

The Heart of Karate-Do[/URL]. This is another excellent book, but rather then concentrating on JKA (Japan Karate Association) flavor of Shotokan as in the above book, it was written by Shigeru Egami, who was one of Funkakoshi Sensei's most senior student. It represents a "sub-style" of Shotokan called Shotokai. The "flavor" of Shotokai is more like the older Okinawan type Karatedo, and as a Shorin-ryu guy, I personally like this approach better. Another excellent addition to any library.

Anyway, I hope this helps. If I may clarify. Shigeru Egami was the President of the shotokai, which was the "organization" (kai) that initially was responsible for raising the funds to build the shotokan dojo (kan = building). When Funakoshi sensei died there was a big blowout over who would officiate at his funeral. Without getting into who did what (which is pointless and I was not there so who knows) suffice it to say the shotokai is yes more like the older Okinawan karatedo and the other group became the JKA. Goju ryu folks seem to identify with the shotokai approach as well.

By the Way, there has been much discussion in shotokai circles concerning the reprint of "The Way of Karate, Beyond Technique" by Egami sensei. Seems many people are unhappy with the photographs in the reprint. The original photographs can be found at www.shotokai.com (http://www.mogensgallardo.com/egami_beyond/).

[Webmaster]

Thanks for the link to the photo Steve. Terrific! I have alwahys been in awe of the gentleman that is demonstrating at the beginning of the photos. So "ragdoll" flexible, and I bet he kicks like a mule! :)

[Genkai_Samurai]

My Way of Life is the first required book for each student at my dojo and I really enjoyed. Like Steve Beale said earlier, you even want to read more about it when you finish. This book will give you teachings about important matters other than punches and kicks.

Oss,

Frances Rosa

[Jack Stay]

My Way of Life is the first required book for each student at my dojo and I really enjoyed. Like Steve Beale said earlier, you even want to read more about it when you finish. This book will give you teachings about important matters other than punches and kicks.

Oss,

Frances Rosa

Hi Frances,

Have you compared and contrasted KARATE JUTSU with 'KARATE-DO'? And if you have, what is your immediate reaction to the Jutsu and Do styles of Shotokan?

Thanx!
________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[Webmaster]

Jack:

We Westerners are the only folks who seem to get really wrapped around the "Do" and "Jutsu" handles. The Japanese use the terms almost interchangeably. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Karate-Jutsu is just an earlier version of Karate-Do Kyohan. Very little difference in the two books. There are some footnotes in Karate-Jutsu that denote some minor differences in how some of the kata are performed. They are just a little more like the original Shorin-ryu versions of the kata. The best thng about the book is the historic photos of Funakoshi Sensei. For your info, here is the product description on the book from Amazon.com.


Book Description
Gichin Funakoshi is considered the father of modern karate. In the 1920s, he wrote the first of several classic karate texts, culminating his career with the publication of Karate-do Kyohan, which remains among the most important and influential works on karate today.

The Kyohan, however, evolved from Karate Jutsu, a much earlier work. In the formative writings of the Jutsu, Funakoshi set out the philosophy and forms that he would practice and refine for the rest of his life.

As the Kyohan's earliest version, Karate Jutsu has attained legendary status. Legions of enthusiastic martial arts practitioners have sought out the original Japanese version, and pirated English-language editions have circulated for years.

This is the first official English publication of Karate Jutsu. Translator John Teramoto has gone to great lengths to accurately convey the essence of Funakoshi's original manuscript, and has contributed an informative introduction and revealing footnotes that clearly note where the forms in Jutsu vary from those of the Kyohan. Karate Jutsu also includes rare historical photographs of Funakoshi himself demonstrating the kata, his early writings in their original form, and a foreword by Tsutomu Ohshima, the founder and chief instructor of the Shotokan Karate of America.


To check out the other reviews on Amazon, follow the below link. This should give you a better idea as to the nature of this book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770026811/qid=1092152339/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5010206-9438567?v=glance&s=books

[Jack Stay]

Jack:

We Westerners are the only folks who seem to get really wrapped around the "Do" and "Jutsu" handles. The Japanese use the terms almost interchangeably. :rolleyes:

Anyway, Karate-Jutsu is just an earlier version of Karate-Do Kyohan. Very little difference in the two books. There are some footnotes in Karate-Jutsu that denote some minor differences in how some of the kata are performed. They are just a little more like the original Shorin-ryu versions of the kata. The best thng about the book is the historic photos of Funakoshi Sensei. For your info, here is the product description on the book from Amazon.com.



To check out the other reviews on Amazon, follow the below link. This should give you a better idea as to the nature of this book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770026811/qid=1092152339/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5010206-9438567?v=glance&s=books

Hi Robert,

Thanks for that amazon.com information. That open forum is a great source of insightful information.

My main interest in this thread is the use of the 'spear-hand' technique of Shotokan. Beside Shotokan's formidible reverse-punch, the 'spear-hand' of Shotokan (and other styles of Karate) appears reminiscant of the 'finger/eye strikes' of kung fu, that is, a real streetfight stopper resource!

I was wondering if a karate jutsu would use the 'spear hand' more than a 'karate do'? I did not ask this question directly because I wanted to analyze the unbiased responses of dedicated Shotokan enthusiasts.

As I mentioned in a different thread, my earliest experience with karate dojos here in Boston, were that they had buckets of sand to thrust their hands to develop good spear hand techniques (these were Goju and Uechi Ryu dojos by the way). I don't see this practice anymore. So was this 1960's karate closer to karate jutsu or karate do?

Since the book: KARATE JUTSU exists, I am assuming the jutsu/do distinction also exists for karate.

I hope some of the experienced Shotokan practitioners on this thread would provide some unconscious insight.

Thanx! :)
________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[Webmaster]

Jack:

I think the difference in the Karate dojo of the 60's is not a "Do" or "Jutsu" distinction. Let's face it, hanging a suffix on the end of Karate does not denote combat effectiveness, but it may denote a difference in philosophical underpinnings. I think also the Do suffix became fashionable, so that is why most traditional Karate is suffixed with Do. It made the art more "acceptable" to the general public. Remember, at the same time that Judo was becoming popular, Karate was just getting it's start in Japan. Funakoshi Sensei may have hung the Do suffix on for no other reason than to make a lowly Okinawan art more acceptable to the Japanese. There is of course a distinction between Jutsu and Do, otherwise we would not have to separate words. However, there is very little difference on a practical level.

I think that the answer to your question about the lack of sand buckets in dojo really goes back to a change of attitude amongst many Karateka. At one time, Karate taught the concept of 'Ikken Hisatsu', or to kill with a single strike. For whatever reason, sport emphasis maybe, Karateka have gotten away from the idea of the single decisive blow. So use of a sand bucket to strengthen their spearhand or a makiwara to develope powerful strikes has given way to "going rounds" on a heavy bag.

[Jack Stay]

Jack:

I think the difference in the Karate dojo of the 60's is not a "Do" or "Jutsu" distinction. Let's face it, hanging a suffix on the end of Karate does not denote combat effectiveness, but it may denote a difference in philosophical underpinnings. I think also the Do suffix became fashionable, so that is why most traditional Karate is suffixed with Do. It made the art more "acceptable" to the general public. Remember, at the same time that Judo was becoming popular, Karate was just getting it's start in Japan. Funakoshi Sensei may have hung the Do suffix on for no other reason than to make a lowly Okinawan art more acceptable to the Japanese. There is of course a distinction between Jutsu and Do, otherwise we would not have to separate words. However, there is very little difference on a practical level.

I think that the answer to your question about the lack of sand buckets in dojo really goes back to a change of attitude amongst many Karateka. At one time, Karate taught the concept of 'Ikken Hisatsu', or to kill with a single strike. For whatever reason, sport emphasis maybe, Karateka have gotten away from the idea of the single decisive blow. So use of a sand bucket to strengthen their spearhand or a makiwara to develope powerful strikes has given way to "going rounds" on a heavy bag.

Thank you Robert,

I think you hit the nail on the head for me. The absence of 'Ikken Hisatsu' is what I observe absent from karate 'attitude'. I've emphasized attitude, because this is the 'Ikken Hisatsu' attitude I grew up with in the martial arts, particularly Judo, where always winning by Ippon was stressed!

The Shotokanists on Budoseek were supposed to tell me this. :wink2:

Thanx!
_____________
John 'Jack' Stay

[Webmaster]

I am a Sandan in Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu Karatedo (as well as a Shotokan offshoot style from earlier in life) and have trained on Okinawa. I was "aways" taught the 'Ikken Hisatsu' from my very first class. Since Shotokan came from Shorin-ryu (as well as some Naha-te), you are just getting it from the "source". ;)

As far as 'Ikken Hisatsu' in Judo, I agree. I was always taught that an Ippon was a "symbolic death". Thus the cheapening of what constitutes an Ippon in Judo today has me shaking my head.

[Jack Stay]

I am a Sandan in Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu Karatedo (as well as a Shotokan offshoot style from earlier in life) and have trained on Okinawa. I was "aways" taught the 'Ikken Hisatsu' from my very first class. Since Shotokan came from Shorin-ryu (as well as some Naha-te), you are just getting it from the "source". ;)

As far as 'Ikken Hisatsu' in Judo, I agree. I was always taught that an Ippon was a "symbolic death". Thus the cheapening of what constitutes an Ippon in Judo today has me shaking my head.

Not to go 'off-thread', but this is the very crux of the matter in Judo, that what constitutes a victory in Judo is cheapening the art. To get a shido then nurse it for the rest of the match to win is wrong. To paraphrase Jim Bregman, it is simply little league.

I interpret this as 'sportifying' Judo. And before I came across Budoseek, I thought I was the only one noticing this phenomenon, because all the other Judo players I pal around with, are too busy thinking about learning a new 'waza' to win a trophy with. And other Judo players who are either too old to compete or are injured, have just stopped Judo entirely and go on with their non-Judo lives.

Rich, who is making contributions to Budoseek from the Kodokan, informed me that the Kodokan is very aware of this attitude in Judo.

Now I would like to read about this attitude in Shotokan from any Shotokan enthusiasts.

Yours,
________________
John 'Jack' Stay

[Webmaster]

Now I would like to read about this attitude in Shotokan from any Shotokan enthusiasts.


In that case, I suggest that you start a fresh thread on the specific subject in the Karate forum, rather than in a thread where you are asking for members comments on a couple of books. You are bound to get more responses if you post your specific question in the forum for that art.