I have to quit!!!

[nosh276]

The TKD school I was working for went under. One of the instructors bought the contracts and started his own school. I helped them get the new location fixed and taught classes for no pay. Now, (we opened yesterday) they want me to sign an employment contract. I would be okay with this if it didnt' state things like: Employee cannot work at, own, or train at any other martial arts school. For a period of two years after employment, and during employment, employee cannot own or work at any martial arts school. Employee may never own a martial arts school within 50 miles of any current X location. (Here's a big one) Employee may never (even after employment) speak unfavorably about any past, present, or future instructors at X. (So basically, I'm not allowed to voice my opinion????? I didn't even think that was legal.)

On top of all this they cut my work hours by 65% AND they will not let me take the contract with me to have my "parents" (I was going to get them to take it to our lawyer) check it out.

So, now I cannot work there. I am not going to sign it. Since I'm not working there, I can't train there. I would be too uncomfortable and the people are very...judgemental and voice their opinions. I don't like how I'm treated there. I don't think I can train anywhere else, unless, they honor my contract for free lessons in exchange for cleaning.

[sean_stonehart]

The non-competition clause isn't that big a deal, but trying to set it if/when you leave is I don't believe above board.

If they won't let you take it home to get a 2nd opinion... walk.

My sifu left his first school because of a similar contract. He walked away from 6 years of training because of it & never looked back. You should do the same. That's not a place you need to be IMHO.

[tkdcanada]

Doesn't sound like that contract has anything in it for you. I think you're right not to sign it. If anything, you should have certain rights stated on the contract also (to counteract all those limitations). It also doesn't sound like a place I would like to train. Good luck finding something else.

I've learned through experience that these twists in life are often blessings in disguise. :)

[Gae-Bek]

Brandon,

I know that we haven't seen eye-to-eye on some issues, but you were right-on not to sign that. I've seen this type of thing before, and I've been in the middle of someone trying to enforce it.

I'd offer some opinions on how a judge would laugh at that contract, but I'm not exactly a lawyer (that, and I'm sure that the laws vary from state-to-state). I seriously doubt that he could really have the whole "never own a school within 50 miles" part enforced, let alone the "never speak unfavorably" crap (slander is difficult to prove).

Try to view this as an opportunity. Check out some of the other schools in your area, and see about learning something new. Sometimes you'll find a good instructor hiding-out in places that you'd least expect (industrial sector, community center, YMCA, etc...).

Hang in there, and I really do wish you the best of luck!

[De_Franza]

I always say never sign a contract for your training. it's supposed to be be about training, not locking people in by their wallets.

Good for you, you did the right thing by not signing it. DO NOT COMPROMISE your principles. You'll find another place to train, and you can always work out on your own, didn't you say you're a shodan? you have enough experience that you won't train in bad habits if you work out on your own for a while, and you'll be better off.

Also, being 19, you don't need your parents to look at contracts, you can legally sign things yourself, if I"m not mistaken, but you should always ALWAYS have someone, preferably a lawyer, read any contract you're considering signing. If they won't allow it, and or won't remove the offensive parts, walk away and don't look back.

All the best. Rest assured, this will work out better in the long run.

[aplonis]

Sounds very like the cookie-cutter non-disclosure agreements prevalent in the auto-industry. Engineers sign them and forget about it as they are virtually unenforcable...unless your prospective employer can really afford to hire a lawyer to sue you ex-post-facto. And sue you is just what he'd have to do because the sheriff shure isn't going to come around to enforce it.

I only know of one such suit being pressed. John Calow, an engineer friend of mine took a job with the competition as plant manager. Benteler filed suit against Yorozu...and lost.

Nevertheless you should not have to sign anything. What new MA technologies have you developed for him that require such draconian protections? It sounds like a crock to me.

[mando]

you definetaly did the right thing by not signing. you would have regretted it if you had. you should definately keep up your training until you find a knew school to continue your training. good luck. hope things go well.

[tbmonti]

I absolutley disagree with contracts in the martial arts. You need to find a new dojang and forget that this one even exists. Where I come from a black belt earns his way through classes by being an example of others and helping to teach not by signing a contract to agree with everything said by everyone in the dojang. Good luck!

respectfully,
Anthony B. Monti

[Jen]

Hey, sorry to see you'll have to leave something you enjoyed so much. You're also in the difficult situation of working for the school in payment for you lessons. Obviously you couldn't do that at your current school anymore, and I do agree that it would be too tense a situation to return there after what has occurred. However, I wouldn't give up hope of finding another place willing to work with you on the fees. The person might just be able to work out a deal with you. I don't know about your school situation, but if you are going to school, maybe there is a club there, and if not, perhaps you could start one. I know at some colleges they do let non students join some clubs and activities, but usually at a higher fee. The community college I attend has open martial arts, though my guess is that it has a focus on whatever the advisor running the club teaches. I know the guy also teaches a martial arts class for credit at the college, but I don't know what. It certainly can't hurt you to check out the schools in your area. At least you'll occupy some free time, and at best, you'll find a great new place to train.

[kodanjaclay]

Gan,

A word of caution. Do not give legal advice. Non-comps can be legally enforced. I am an engineer and I have seen people lose because of them.

[Peter Rehse]

Just curious - you said you taught for no pay. I hope that they were going to pay you well after you signed the contract.

I would walk away - and as I was doing it mention this great little place 5 miles away that you'll be setting up. Give them something to worry about.

As an aside a 1st Dan in TKD gives you the ability to direct your own training to an extent. You also don't need more than a room, a friend and a dojo within a reasonable distance that keeps you in the loop. You must know some alternate place?

[nosh276]

Thanks everyone. Your comments have made me more confident in my decision.
About the alternate school...there is another tkd school, but the master their is...well he teaches that his is the best...and that's simply a matter of perspective and he shouldn't try and force his opinion upon anyone. Another place should be opening up soon. It's basically a bunch of the instructors that quit under my old master. I don't know what that will end up being like. I may, because I've been considering it for a while, take up another martial art. There is no club at my college, but there is a room that I can train in. I do know of a Karate club at a local university, I may be able to join that. I guess I'll just have to see when I get back into school. Again, thanks for the comments.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I have seen those contracts before.

I had a friend that was an ITA (formerly "TKD Plus") instructor that would "sneak" over to my BJJ class. Cap pulled down, sunglasses, etc.. We used to get a good laugh about it.

[Jen]

Well, if there is a room suitable for it, maybe you could get a club started. I would highly doubt you'd be the only person interested in it.

[DragonMind]

The TKD school I was working for went under. One of the instructors bought the contracts and started his own school. I helped them get the new location fixed and taught classes for no pay. Now, (we opened yesterday) they want me to sign an employment contract. I would be okay with this if it didnt' state things like: Employee cannot work at, own, or train at any other martial arts school. For a period of two years after employment, and during employment, employee cannot own or work at any martial arts school. Employee may never own a martial arts school within 50 miles of any current X location. (Here's a big one) Employee may never (even after employment) speak unfavorably about any past, present, or future instructors at X. (So basically, I'm not allowed to voice my opinion????? I didn't even think that was legal.)

On top of all this they cut my work hours by 65% AND they will not let me take the contract with me to have my "parents" (I was going to get them to take it to our lawyer) check it out.

So, now I cannot work there. I am not going to sign it. Since I'm not working there, I can't train there. I would be too uncomfortable and the people are very...judgemental and voice their opinions. I don't like how I'm treated there. I don't think I can train anywhere else, unless, they honor my contract for free lessons in exchange for cleaning.
Non-competes can and are enforced. Often the ex-employer will file on a weak case because it will cost you a bundle to defend yourself. And don't even pretend that you would collect legal fees if he loses; they are often not awarded in what is considered a simple contract dispute.

Working for free? Report them to your local Dept of Labor if they failed to pay worker's comp on you. An instructor in California was fined over $25,000 for failing to pay worker's comp on his "free" employees.

Check if your state is a "right to work" state. That has a major impact on how likely and under what conditions that contract could be enforced. I wouldn't go back to that school, but this is good info to know before you work at that next school. A commercial school owner does have a right to reasonable protections from an employee stealing his students, just like a sales organization has a right to prevent salespeople from mining their customer list to start their own business. The key is reasonable. You're going to see non-comps more and more in this industry as it matures.

[nosh276]

Thanks for the advice everyon...I still have to call them and let them know I won't be back...My state is a "right to work" state, by the way.

[dingodog1]

I have seen those contracts before.

I had a friend that was an ITA (formerly "TKD Plus") instructor that would "sneak" over to my BJJ class. Cap pulled down, sunglasses, etc.. We used to get a good laugh about it.We've an instructor here in Charlotte who operated a TKD plus school but he changed the name here about a year or so ago. Has that organization splintered?

[c1919]

Can you get out of a Martial Arts Contract?

[kodanjaclay]

Two things. You must post your real first and last name in each post as per forum rules.

Second, it is unethical for any of us to attempt to advise you. I recommend that you contact an attorney, or if you have been the victim of a confidence game, or other illegal acticity, your DA. It is also illegal for us to give you legal guidance without the appropriate licensure.

I wish you luck.

[c1919]

We've an instructor here in Charlotte who operated a TKD plus school but he changed the name here about a year or so ago. Has that organization splintered?

I have heard good things about the ITA. http://www.tkd.org/ From my understanding, TKD Plus and the ITA are the same organization.

(ITA "PLUS" programs are special programs designed by the ITA that ITA Member Schools can offer that are not traditional TaeKwonDo. The instructors of these programs are initially certified and certification is renewed through the ITA.)

Joe Smith

[kodanjaclay]

Joe,

Most reputable organizations do not fear visitors. I actually had one tell me that I could not come by and train while I was in town. I went by another, and was ignored while I was there. To be honest, I was not very impressed by the students I saw, but then they were better than many I have seen. Through my years in Korean Mudo, I have become extremely cynical, and look for alot of things which tend to be lacking in American schools.

[Kyuusaku]

Might be a good chance to start learning a new art!

Judo, Kung Fu, Brazilian Jujutsu? I'm sure that you have spent enough time in taekwondo to have learned pretty much all the taekwondo knowledge you need.

Edward Cha

[BUDO BULLDOG]

I am sorry to hear of your situation.

PLEASE DONOT SIGN THIS CONTRACT!!!

Last year I faced a very similar situation. The head instructor, who went from 3rd – 6th –10th degree in less than 3 years, had his Black Belts doing all the teaching. He also attempted to have us sign a contract so we would be paying tuition.

BOTTOM LINE – I DID NOT SIGN – HE BACKS OFF!

In less than a year I tell him good-bye and all he ask for was the key to the school. For the free labor that I provided, I never even received a thank you.

I have over 20 years experience in the MA. This experienced has totally changed how I view the MA.
[1] I still LOVE THE MA more than before.
[2] I have NO REPSECT for the majority of the new martial artists that are out. They are businessmen first and martial artist last.
[3] Rank means nothing to me. The quality of the martial artist as teacher, practioner and student speaks volumes over rank, which is purchased for.
[4] Hall of Fames, do not make me laugh, it is the same as rank.

PLEASE DONOT SIGN THIS CONTRACT. Move and find other liked minded martial artist and students that will value you and the MA.

GOOD LUCK!

Ed Barton
An Old American Tae Kwon Do MDK

[moogong]

Might be a good chance to start learning a new art!

Judo, Kung Fu, Brazilian Jujutsu? I'm sure that you have spent enough time in taekwondo to have learned pretty much all the taekwondo knowledge you need.

Edward Cha


That depends on what his need is...to earn a black belt...obviously he has. To master the art...that takes a lifetime of study..as it would any art. Taekwondo is no different.

By any chance, is this an ATA school?

[Cliff Hargrave]

I have heard good things about the ITA. http://www.tkd.org/ From my understanding, TKD Plus and the ITA are the same organization.

(ITA "PLUS" programs are special programs designed by the ITA that ITA Member Schools can offer that are not traditional TaeKwonDo. The instructors of these programs are initially certified and certification is renewed through the ITA.)

Joe Smith

They are all over southeast Texas and I have never heard a good thing about them. Typical McDojo, over priced money pits for soccer moms to drop off their kids for an hour of babysitting.