Breadth of Ki Definition

[Peter Rehse]

In Shodokan Aikido the expression of the art is defined as a series of Powers (Power Ranger jokes are banned for the duration of the thread).

We have Power of Movement, Muscle power, power of focus, breath power (kokyo/timing) and then we have the more mystical Ki. There is a bit of overlap especially with respect to Kokyo and power of focus but the point I'm trying to make is that the mystical Ki is left pretty much in a small corner by itself. The idea is that it will eventually show up and develope through hard practice alone. We don't discuss it in the dojo, don't have special exercises, and generally feel smug when others go on and on about it.

So one day I was feeling all smug about our one true way when I was told that some teachers/organizations use the term Ki to cover all the separate powers and it is best to remember that when you discuss Ki with them. Apples and oranges.

So the question is - how narrow or how broad is your definition of Ki and do you specifically target Ki developement in your training?

For purposes of discussion - we are not debating the existance of Ki.

[Paul B]

Hi Peter,

First,thanks for posting that site,very good stuff!

I have also ran into the "Ki" translation problem(something that pops up frequently around here) a time or two.

My Sensei never really talked about it either,the only times where it was brought up was typically outside of class. The answer we received was along the lines of "It is whatever you think it is".

It was sometimes mentioned in passing, but in a broad sense of timing/focus/power i.e. kokyu nage,aiki nage,aiki age etc...

I think it is present in all,regardless of the "mystic" connotation.We were reassured that the only way to "foster" ki,was to keep practicing and let it develop, naturally.

[SeiserL]

So the question is - how narrow or how broad is your definition of Ki and do you specifically target Ki developement in your training?


In Tenshinkai Aikido, Phong Sensei does not talk about it much but prefers to have us develop Ki through training. The best I have figured from him is that Ki flows best when the stuctural form aligns and there is a positive attitude. A relaxed body, a calm mind, and natural breathing.

[stella fuentes]

hi,
i am glad this came up too. we don't talk about it either. i think it is because those who have experienced it would find it hard to explain anyway, and those who have not experienced it would find it hard to understand anyway as well.
the common thread i see is that we are encouraged to practice, just practice and practice and focus and it will develop in its own time. :wink2:

[Peter Rehse]

Frankly speaking the variation in what is being talked about when Ki is discussed is the source of much confusion and contention.

I went to a outdoor hotspring outside of Kyoto to relieve an ankle injury and ended up hobbling alongside of an old Chinese gentleman from Hong Kong for a number of reasons.
a) there is only so much time you can sit in a bath.
b) I couldn't keep up to anyone else.
but I digress. We were walking amoung some really huge cyprus trees and he turned back to me (seems I had trouble even keeping up to him) and said "Can't you just feel the Chi" And of course he was right, I knew exactly what he meant, could not even consider disagreeing. I think anyone who has spent time in the woods knows the feeling - he just used the term Chi to express it.

Now switch to the dojo where we are practicing an explosive entering technique called tsukuri (it actually translates into fitting). And yes my ankle was recovered. The major component used to describe this is a projection of Ido Ryokyo aka Power of movement. If your definintion of Ki is broad enough to include this power (please see my previous post) then the term Project your Ki makes perfect sense.

The problem arises when terms describing the broad definition of Ki are used to describe a very narrow version of same. The old man in the story would have looked at me as both mentally and physically challenged if I suggested the trees were projecting their Chi. Somethin I have to remember when others talk about Ki.

[stella fuentes]

peter,
when you put it this way, i feel a lot more comfortable talking about it! :D i think because it is thru experience that we understand it more.
i can't make a quote..(don't know how to put it here..)but what you said about the trees in the forest...and also the one in the dojo, IT'S THE SAME and YET, NOT THE SAME..(i think i am putting my foot in my mouth and stumbling around now.) but yes all that and more. sorry, i am not more eloquent on this.

[Peter Rehse]

when you put it this way, i feel a lot more comfortable talking about it! :D i think because it is thru experience that we understand it more.
I'm glad - I also think what you said is very important. Our own experience in this regard is far more important than some mythical story that may or may not be taken in the correct context.


i can't make a quote..(don't know how to put it here..)

Just hit the quote button on the post and remove what you don't want. Its not too difficult to get more fancy latter on.


but what you said about the trees in the forest...and also the one in the dojo, IT'S THE SAME and YET, NOT THE SAME..(i think i am putting my foot in my mouth and stumbling around now.) but yes all that and more. sorry, i am not more eloquent on this.
That was fine.