Fank Rank

[jerkkempo]

What are you supposed to do when you find out that after many years your instructor didn't have permission to give you rank in Kosho Ryu Kempo?

Mother of girl who switched to a new school only to find out that her daughters rank wouldn't be accepted.
Lansing, IL

[Webmaster]

Just a quick reminder that per our rules, you need to sign your full real name after each post.

As to your question. I would leave and find another instructor.

[Webmaster]

I see that you edited your post after I replied. Your "signature" seems to clarify things somewhat (but you still need to put your real name). :)

OK, under the circumstances, there is not a lot that you can really do. You could sue the former instructor for issuing bogus rank credentials, but then again, he may just claim that the rank issued was "dojo rank" and recognized only by him and the school. Unfortunately, you very well may be out of luck.

You mentioned that your daughter had moved to another school? Is this new school also a Kosho Ryu Kempo school? If so, have you asked the instructor there to evaluate your daughter for rank there? Just because the credentials are bogus, may not necessarily mean what she learned is invalid. If you could explain the circumstances a little more fully, that would be appreciated.

[Antares33]

Yeah, like Robert said, unless you were changing schools within the same organization and style you can't ever really switch schools and expect not to have to start over. Some schools will evaluate students and give them rank based on abilites, but that doesn't happen all the time, especially if rank is based on the knowledge of Forms and other memorized material.

On the plus side, your daughter's previous experience should allow for faster progression through rank at the new school this time around, assuming the first instructor wasn't a total sham.

[jerkkempo]

I moved my daughter to a new school. The instructor at the new school was taught by the former instructor. The new instructor has taken steps to get himself certified by Bruce Junick and the rank certificates should be valid now. The new instructor was very up front but he said that he won't honor the old rank and I can understand why. Even the forms/Kata have been changed somewhat. It appears whatever was taught needs to be re-taught and I now have to pay for 4 new belt promotions and $30 a pop. Please keep in mind that I have framed all the certificates, used my camcorder, taken pictures, bought cakes after every promotion. I feel like I was ripped off and I need to get over it but I need to vent 1st.

Someone made a comment about DOJO rank? Is DOJO rank worth anything. It may sound silly but I'm hoping one day to have my daughter open her own school, if she sees fit but, would anyone come to someone who just has DOJO rank?

There should be some type of state/federal governing body that regulates Instructors. Taekwondo seems to be good to go. ITF, ITA, & WTF all seem to have a national database of rank and the instructors are certified. They all should be like that.

Ridda
Lansing IL

[sean_stonehart]

I moved my daughter to a new school. The instructor at the new school was taught by the former instructor. The new instructor has taken steps to get himself certified by Bruce Junick and the rank certificates should be valid now. The new instructor was very up front but he said that he won't honor the old rank and I can understand why. Even the forms/Kata have been changed somewhat. It appears whatever was taught needs to be re-taught and I now have to pay for 4 new belt promotions and $30 a pop. Please keep in mind that I have framed all the certificates, used my camcorder, taken pictures, bought cakes after every promotion. I feel like I was ripped off and I need to get over it but I need to vent 1st.

That's a bummer but that's what happens from time to time. It's nothing unusual or out of the ordinary.



Someone made a comment about DOJO rank? Is DOJO rank worth anything. It may sound silly but I'm hoping one day to have my daughter open her own school, if she sees fit but, would anyone come to someone who just has DOJO rank?

It's worth its weight in that dojo but maybe nowhere else. Some other schools may take a "probationary ranking" until your daughter adjust to their method of doing things. Don't read too much into ranks & who signed them. It seems more & more that rankings can be bought & traded like Yu-Gi-Oh cards.



There should be some type of state/federal governing body that regulates Instructors. Taekwondo seems to be good to go. ITF, ITA, & WTF all seem to have a national database of rank and the instructors are certified. They all should be like that.

Ridda
Lansing IL

That's a highly violatile & charged debate. I'll offer my own opinion & say No there shouldn't be. The reason being who can say if my Sifu is certified or not to teach. His Sifu & that's all.

There are too many factions & groups & whatnot involved in martial arts in America today to attempt that. You should check out the infighting between the different factions of "governing" bodies of TKD since it was mentioned.


Please post with your real (Full) name , i.e. Ridda "something" or "Something" Ridda.

[Paul B]

Hi,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am from around your area,and have trained with everyone in our area that is,or was,teaching Kosho. Bottom line....I most likely know who you are talking about,so,if you want feel free to PM me,and then we can get specific.

Again very sorry to hear about that situation.It is not fair to the students to get sucked up in the politics!

[tkdcanada]

Just a few thoughts. How old is your daughter? How does she feel about this? Does she have the same aspirations as you about opening a school in the future? Chances are you're taking it harder than her. As the others said, it's fairly common for rank to not be recognized when someone changes schools or at the very least until the instructor can verify skill levels, etc... You seem upset because you've put so much into celebrating her achievements that now don't seem to mean anything. Whether they are recognized or not, they are still achievements and so it's not wasted to have framed her certificates, bought cakes, taken pictures etc....She has still learned a lot of valuable stuff and no one can take that away. Take it as a learning experience. Also, rank is relative (as you will notice if you read some of the rank discussions right here on this forum) - it won't define her and likely won't mean anything to most people she comes across no matter who formally recognizes it.

[jerkkempo]

Thanks for everyone's comments. It just seems that integrity should be part of the whole process. He trashed other martial art systems, like TDK. He forced us to buy car wash tickets among other things, I'm just glad I'm out! Thanks for the postive outlook everyone seems to have.

ITA Tenants:
honor
curiosity
integrity
perseverance
self-control
courage
community
We should live by these words everyday, especially when dealing with children.

Ridda Lansing
Lansing, IL.

[PooterMan]

Most of the larger "organizations" have standards that you must meet in order to rank. In Tang Soo Do for example, I am a member of the World Tang Soo Do Association. My Studio and Instructor are certified by them as well, so if I transfer to any other World Tang Soo Do Association studio I retain all ranks.

There is no governing authority stopping me from opening my McDojo tomorrow in "Southern Fried Tang Soo Do" (www.SFTSD.com is even available, I can just SMELL the money!). And offer guaranteed blackbelts in 4 weeks (If you can afford it).

Yes, that would rank me right up there with used car salesman and child molesters in actual Martial Artists minds...but unfortunately thats the way our system works.

Your only guarantee is the quality of the instructor and the organization (and it depends on BOTH [in my opinion]) so always check out boths credentials before signing on the dotted line.

[Paul B]

That is my point exactly. If both teachers are members of Sei Kosho Shorei Kai, there is NO excuse why the rank is not transferable. Except for somebody seeing an opportunity for $.

There is no excuse for that type of behavior.

[c1919]

Paul, how can I reach you? e-mail? I have been reading these posts for awhile but just joined when I read that post from Ridda. I think I'm may even know her. I think we may have trained a the same school. Get in touch!

Joe Smith

[Paul B]

Hi Joe,

Click on my user name,select send personal message(PM)....is that Portage,IN? Your right down the street!! OK about 20-30 minutes,but ya know... :D

[Forbiddenryu]

I think it''s a shame that you can get your blackbelt in 4 weeks. That little amount of time does not allow you to comprehend the actual meaning of blackbelt. I have been doing Goju-Ryu for 8 years and am just now going to get my belt.

[c1919]

I read this post and I saw nothing about anyone complaining about getting a black belt? Who is talking about a black belt? I think the point of Ridda's post was about bogus instructors passing themselves off as professional's.

Joe Smith

[Forbiddenryu]

the post by pooterman.

[PooterMan]

I believe you should re-read...my post was made in jest.
I was making the point that ANYONE can open up a school tomorrow and offer a blackbelt in 4 weeks. Heck..I could open a school tomorrow and offer a blackbelt in 4 hours.
It all relates to schools that aren't part of a large organization. Theres nothing necessarily wrong with a school such as this, but you may not be able to transfer such ranks to another school.