Which is the best? [Archive] - BudoSeek! Martial Arts Community Forums

Shorin-ryu Diciple

09-29-2004, 14:02

Sorry I have posted a few more fourms, If that is bad manners I apologise.

But my question is, what do you beleve to be the most effective form of Karate? I know that each style has its advantages and disadvantages, but what is the one that you feel is slightlybetter, If that is even the word. My Bet would be Kobaiashi Shoren ryu, because as my sensei put it "it has a little bit of every thing because it was soley comprised of karate"

But that is my opinion, plz dont flame me. :bow:

Andrew Green

09-29-2004, 14:33

It has very little to do with the style, and more to do with how you train.

But if you must pick one, Kyokushin seems to do best in full contact competition (ex K-1)

jabonn

09-29-2004, 14:51

I am going to guess you will either have baised answers due to 'this is the style I do' or 'this is what my brother does' OR a low turn out of a possible flame war.

I like that fact that you study Okinawan Karate-do. Shorin-ryu is a very good system no matter what association that you belong:Kobayashi, Seidokan, and Matsumura. Each one those association offers just a little bit different take on applications of techniques.

You will find that there are only a few people on this forum that post regularaly that are Okinawan Karate-ka. You may want to look at this site for more recent developments in Okinawa on the big three styles of Karate-do Uechi-ryu Goju-ryu Shorin-ryu (http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/index.html). There are a few segments on the minor styles of Okiniwan karate-do (Isshin-ryu, Ryuei-ryu To'on-ry....).

I was sorry to see you had not added the style that I study as part of your poll. Good luck.

Uechi-ryu Kenyukai

Sochin

10-04-2004, 15:36

well, Diciple (sic),

I bet you go to dog shows and ask, "What's the best kind of dog? I think it's a pit bull, " hmmm?

TonyU

10-04-2004, 19:49

jabonn

10-05-2004, 07:44

Chris

How are you doing any Shime with your students? I read that you have a Goju back ground and was wondering about if you kept the condititioning portion of Goju with your program?

TonyU

10-06-2004, 07:09

Every one here knows it is not the style that make the man but the man that make the style.
Yeap I agree. Also I'm not a scholar, but I do try to keep up with my Japanese terms for my sake and according to my sources you are are correct in the spelling of "kakie" and "kotekitai". You stated you learned these in Goju. Did you learn or practice these in ShorinRyu also? or no? I ask because I was taught these type of exercises in ShorinRyu.

jabonn

10-06-2004, 12:31

Seems this thread took a turn. Sochin if you want to redirect we could turn this into a Okinawan Body Conditioning discussion.

In Uechi we are heavy in the shime, kotekitai and ashikitai. During Sanchin Sensei will lay on some shime on the last of the three kata performed. Then in the last 15 minutes or so of the class we will condition the stomach, fore-arms, shins and thighs (inner/outer).

I posted this a while back, We take the foam padding cover off the wave master and kick the hard plastic base with our shins, instep, etc. It rocks a little bit so it is not too ridgid and provides excellent conditioning for a solo workout.

We then kick the tire with the instep and the toes (the front kick point of impact is the big toe). We also have a heavy bag on the ground that we will kick as well.

Then the Makiwara - lots of one step drills withe the makiwara. Quick punches and then move back.

TonyU

10-07-2004, 05:30

You are right Jabonn, we've seem to have thread drifted, but I have a question for Chris.
First, Yes I'm aware that Isshin Ryu is a combination of ShorinRyu and Goju Ryu. Combined by Tatsuo Shimabuku (Founder) by his training under Chotoku Kyan (Shorin) and Chojun Miyagi (Goju). Jus a little tidbit for those that didn't know. My questions is how hard is it for you adapt or train using dynamic beathing exercises since ShorinRyu stresses natural breathing.
I'm not criticizing just asking because we don't practice sanchin or similar katas and I have never done it.
Thanks.

TonyU

10-07-2004, 14:54

It was about as hard as striking with an open hand or a closed hand.

Just my oppinion but the Bukki breathing comes from the chinese enfluence and has a purpose. Helps teach students how to control their breath. Also used in combat when injured to release endorphines into blood stream and help control pain and bleeding. I know a BB who had his thumbs cut off in the woods bow hunting had to walk three miles back to his truck and then drive 30 miles to nearest hospital to have them sewn back on he was alone and doctor said his breathing excersise kept him from bleeding to death.
Very simular to the principle behind the breathing they teach woman for natural child birth.

This is what I was referring to as another lost part of the art due to tournaments and people not knowing what it is for so they dissmiss it in ignorance.
Thanks for your reply. I understand. :bow:

Estrella

10-19-2004, 15:31

Hey, you don't have Wado-Ryu up there! You got something against it, huh?! I'm just kidding. :D Seriously, though, I don't think I'd vote even if it was- it's the only style I've ever studied, and I am still quite inexperienced at that. And if its the only type I've studied, how am I going to know whether its better or not? There's only so much that can be learned from researching different styles on the net or in books- I don't think you'd know which was the better one unless you had some experience of them all, and even then, its a matter of personal preference.

Shorin-ryu Diciple

10-22-2004, 13:40

just wondering. It turns out I take Matsubaiashi Shorin Ryu instead of Koiobaiashi? Is there a gigantic difference between the styles, I heard the guy who started Koiobaiashi mispelt the kanji?

CrowJS

10-23-2004, 22:09

For me, it's easy....Wado ryu is the best. Reason being, it's the one I know! :)

Like someone said earlier, there is no "right" answer. My guess is that you would have to be ranked in all styles before you could be qualified to give an opinion.

Wulf

10-26-2004, 13:22

i feel that it's not the weapon that makes the warrior, the weapon being a martial art in this stance. like everybody says, it's how you train in the art no matter which fighting style you choose. (sorry if that doesn't make sense.. sometimes i tend to ramble on until i reach a point)

dojo

11-14-2004, 04:16

I do Shotokan and it's the best style FOR ME. That is because I have started MA training with it and never got the chance to train in other styles. Maybe I would have changed my opinion. Maybe not. The best style is the one you train in, love and know. It can be any style in the world, our experience, way of life and possibile choices force us to have different views and pleasures. It's indeed hard to say which style is better and we'll have to put near it another "string" ..."for me". My favourite style is maybe the one you hate, and it's OK. We are different and so are our preferences :karate:

David Craik

11-14-2004, 20:54

WHICH IS BEST

I've only done Wado-Ryu and Shotokan, but have come to the conclusion that there are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists.

Whaddaya mean someone else already thought of that?! ;)

black-gi

01-06-2005, 13:01

if there was a best there would only be one.

Markaso

03-14-2005, 02:10

What a can of worms!!! Which one is best........ well as I practice in Go Jyu Ryu and I have been doing that for about 17 years, I naturally would say that. But I think all arts have great things to teach. We may all be on different paths but are we all not going in the same direction?

I think the arts that have all of the ellements ( for ex. take-downs, throws, joint locks, strikes ect.) would fall under that category.

Abbax8

03-17-2005, 11:59

Which art is BEST!

Well I would say the art that is taught in a location that you are to get to on a regular basis,that charges a tuition that you can afford to pay and still make ends meet, that conducts class in such a way that you are able to return for the next class, that holds your interest and has a system in place to test your skill acquisition, and that meets your reason for joining, ex. competition, self defense, exercise, socialization. The only way to answer these questions is to visit the local schools, ask and observe and maybe take a few classes. I would suggest you AVOID schools that will not let you observe class or require long term contracts to join.

Peace

Dennis

OkinawaGojuRyu

03-17-2005, 13:47

I believe that the only person that can answer this question would be yourself . For me , I choose Goju Ryu , because I feel it is very well rounded . We have our Kihon , & kata , along w/ bunkai , like many other system's . But we also have Kakie , which is an agressive form of push hands that incorporates joint locks , throws , etc . We also have Junbi Undo which are traditional warm ups , some have been created by Miyagi Sensei , directly from the Kata . We also have Hojo Undo , or supplementary exercises , done w/ traditional Okinawan weights , as well . Along w/ Kotikitaie (forearm conditioning) , along w/ conditioning of the legs , stomach , etc. For a period of about 3 yrs , Miyagi Sensei instituted something called Iri Kumi , which was an agressive form of fighting , which included kicks to the legs , sweeps , knee's , elbows , take downs , & throws , as well . After 3 yrs , he realized it was too dangerous , so it was discontinued . However many Dojo still continue this tradition . As you can see , compared to most styles , Goju ryu is very well rounded , that is why IMO it is the best . I should note that if you dont think your style of karate is the best , you should not be training in it , & find what you feel is the best .

Gene Williams

03-17-2005, 16:06

I have trained in Shito-ryu for over 30 years, but if I had to switch ryu, I'd train Goju. Hey, that rhymed :D

TonyU

03-19-2005, 14:59

I finally figured it out. I have been enlightened. You ready?
Here goes. :D
Which is the best?

Stand up
Okinawan Karate
Throws
Judo
Stand up grappling
Japanese Jujutsu
Ground fighting
Brazilian JiuJitsu
One tough knockout
Kung Fu
Multiple touch knockouts
Okinawan Karate

Now before anybody gets their undies in a wad, I'm being facetious here.

Gene Williams

03-19-2005, 15:32

Hell, sounds pretty good to me! :wink2:

Abbax8

03-19-2005, 15:48

Luar

03-31-2005, 14:36

I'm 6'3, lean and very long in the legs and arms. I do not think Judo is a style that can work well with my body type. My legs are also very tight and I work extra hard to keep them as limber but I do not think the spectacular kicks of TKD is something I can do. So does that mean these arts are not the best because I feel I cannot do them? Nonsense.

Iron Dove

04-15-2005, 00:49

none, i'm a science freak when it comes to martial arts, because my main interest is effieciency in combat. if you're talking about the art as an art in itself same thing, none, its like asking is pablo picasso better or michaelangello? that is preference based. i do not have preference when it comes to martial arts styles, my preferene is science and if it follows science its good, if not its still good, but for the art aspect not the combat.

Gene Williams

04-15-2005, 05:50

Martial arts are not a "science." I have heard it said many times that," martial arts have a scientific approach," but that is really stretching it. Sure, we learn vital areas and nerve routes, and many techniques are based upon good mechanics, but I think people use the word science too loosely. Remember when colleges started giving BS degrees for everything...economics, business, etc? It really is just that BS! It is just to add phony prestige. An art still uses a technical approach to improving itself, but that doesn't make it a science.

Luar

04-15-2005, 07:46

Martial Ats is not a science. Science implies predictable results and that is never the case. In fact one of the biggest problems we as students face is overcomming the predictability of training in the dojo.

Overall I have come to realize that the only true "best" attribute to have in any situation is sheer will.

Fu Man

04-22-2005, 23:08

Although I do not believe there is a best Karate, my favorite is Isshin-ryu Karate.

My other favorite martial arts include: Kodokan Judo, Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, Ryukyu Kempo and Wing Chun.

Ted Hillman

Ronin81

07-08-2005, 21:54

I do wado, so biased as it may be I like it. But, as most everyone seems to agree, it's not the style it's the person. I took a good beatin' one time from a taekwondo person and where I come from well...that's insulting, but hey - he was an outstanding fighter. But I mean, in the end we all have things we like and dislike about our/other styles, and usually they're the same thing.

Wado, in particular is VERY technical, which is why I love it. It helps you understand your body, move with power, speed, etc....but at the same time I hate it cause it's like - ok, I moved a toe - darn, who cares? But, alas, back to the drawing board.

I guess in the end it's all about what you train your mind to react to, and hopefully that will be the situation instead of a prescribed movement. And hey, if you get stuck...well...at least fall like a karate-ka! Happy hunting!

Ronin81

07-08-2005, 21:57

I should also add that, when you get started in MA at a young to relatively young age the teacher has a tremendous amount to do with your perception. Luckily I have a great one. She could teach me ballet and I'd still crawl into a foxhole with her anyday!

TonyU

08-05-2005, 18:09

With all due respect. I am a Kobayashi Shorin Ryu practictioner and I won't vote. Why? It's like Mr. Green stated it's how your train. They are all good. I have friends with as much time if not more than me in each of those respective styles and they are competent and exceptional karatekas in their own right.
All well, I voted. It's a biased vote, but it's missing some other good Okinawa karate styles like, Jukendo, Ryuei-Ryu Uechi-Ryu (or Pangai-noon-ryu), Kojo-Ryu, Motobu-Ryu, Isshin-Ryu, Shito-Ryu, Ishimine-Ryu...
well you get the picture.

Prince Loeffler

09-19-2005, 13:12

Hands down best style

MOO-COW-DO

THey serve great milk in their dojos too.

hahahahhahahahahahahah

Chris, This has to be the hardest style around, Imagine being in Kiba Dachi while doing hands squeezing training drill ..whew !.... :D

Seriously, Shorin Ryu Diciple, I belived that It is YOU that make the art, not the Arts that makes you.

poetic misjustice

09-24-2005, 08:48

well i've trained in a couple and i didn't like shotokan, so my favorite would have to be wado-ryu, but again it's the way you train, and because i do kung fu as well, i've changed the footwork very slightly, heightened and lengthened most fo the stances apart from the ones that are meant to be short, eg. short cat stance or tobikomuzuki

MMAfighter

09-25-2005, 23:11

I don't believe in better styles and all but my favorite is kyokushin

Jango007

09-26-2005, 16:22

Come on now lets not get ahead of ourselves now. We all know the best is Shotokan (which is what I do).

Talk about an easy answer..

poetic misjustice

09-27-2005, 07:41

don't you think that's rather close minded? i would have to say you're suffering from tunnel vision and/or wearing blinkers

MarcoPolo

09-27-2005, 12:02

(I'm guessing he was being sarcastic.. as he indicated that is the art HE studies.)

I'm voting for SCAR 7!!! (sorry, bad reference to a horrible post earlier this week.)

gr455h0pp3r

09-30-2005, 14:03

scar 7 huh? i hear thats petty awesome... Im considerring giving up Wing Chun to find a good Scar 7 insturctor..

shutterspeed

10-02-2005, 22:19

I took Shito-ryu for almost a year. I enjoyed learning it, but I'm still trying to decide if I should try another style.

Any other shito-ryu practioners here? How does this style seem to fare against the other Karate styles?

poetic misjustice

10-03-2005, 19:18

it's difficult to accuratly test different styles fairly, there are too many variables, size, skill, etc. etc. it is impossible to get two people in different styles with exactly the same skill and size, so it is down to the martial artist himself, it's not the style mate, it's how you use it.

Budoka34

11-19-2005, 09:14

I've never understood getting to caught up in the style thing.

I have a great fondness for Goju ryu and Wado ryu but don't consider either more or less effective or worth while than Shotokan, Shito ryu, Isshin ryu, etc. etc...

I always remind myself that all styles are made up.

Example: Funakoshi Sensei taught his interpretation of the Karate of Itosu, Azato, and Matsumura Sensei. It became Shotokan.

Otsuka Sensei merged the teachings of Funkoshi Sensei with the Shindoyoshin Ryu he had learned and created Wado ryu.

All styles are interpretations. We can eagerly try to keep them "pure", but the fact is we can only interpret what is being taught to the best of our ability.

Ultimately, as was stated previously, it comes down to the practitioner not the style.

Wado-AJ

11-21-2005, 11:43

the is not a best style. only a best individual. budo is to conquer yourself

Margaret Lo

11-21-2005, 13:17

I do conditioning with my students once they graduate High School.
I train with my partners (adults) on the side outside of class. we do what our sensei Larry Lunn taught us which is alot more than just the goju conditioning. I like the stuff I picked up from Morio Higgaonna. I like to warm up with the Isshin-ryu version of sanchin, then I like the forearm and body conditioning, plus makiwara. I dont use the formal verbage so I have forgotten how to spell the terms in Japanese. I am probably going to butcher it but maybe some of our local scholars can correct me. Kakie, Kotekitai.
I think this is a critical part of training which is lost to many modern schools cuz it runs off students.
I used to have them walk the gauntlet for birthdays till some ones parent complained to the schools principal, teenagers have open growth plates in the joints so its not a good idea untill they are over 17 years old.

Chris,
Do you have any dvds or books you can recommend for conditioning? I have Morio Higaoona's excellent "Power Conditioning" but there's not enough breakdown of the kakie portion and am looking for more.

BTW - as to teenagers, girls' bones close up shortly after the first period, so.... you can start the girls sooner than the boys, say about a year after the big event, around 15. I'm sure they'd love that. ;)

M
Oh and shotokan is best by far of course.

jwinch2

11-30-2005, 16:52

All well, I voted. It's a biased vote, but it's missing some other good Okinawa karate styles like, Jukendo, Ryuei-Ryu Uechi-Ryu (or Pangai-noon-ryu), Kojo-Ryu, Motobu-Ryu, Isshin-Ryu, Shito-Ryu, Ishimine-Ryu...
well you get the picture.

Moved to new thread.... Sorry

Yang Wei Xin

12-22-2005, 12:23

i personally think goju is the most hardcore, mainly because of the intense body condition done in traditional schools., i personally do shorin ryu, but thats what is available at my school, and not necesarily what i would pick given a choice to study with the top master of any karate style.

TonyU

12-22-2005, 15:11

and not necesarily what i would pick given a choice to study with the top master of any karate style.
Why not?
I do Shorin Ryu and have been for the last 20 years and find it to be one fo the best all around TMA.
But then again I'm biased.

Yang Wei Xin

12-22-2005, 16:06

Why not?
I do Shorin Ryu and have been for the last 20 years and find it to be one fo the best all around TMA.
But then again I'm biased.

not disagreeing with you, ive just always been interested in goju ryu, i have a 2nd dan in shorin ryu, wouldn't have made it if i didn't love it. i was already studying praying mantis kung fu at my school, and they happened to have a shorin ryu program, so i decided to do both so i could understand a broader view of the martial arts. :karate:

TonyU

12-22-2005, 16:14

not disagreeing with you, ive just always been interested in goju ryu, i have a 2nd dan in shorin ryu, wouldn't have made it if i didn't love it. i was already studying praying mantis kung fu at my school, and they happened to have a shorin ryu program, so i decided to do both so i could understand a broader view of the martial arts. :karate:
Fair enough.

jabonn

12-23-2005, 10:55

i personally think goju is the most hardcore, mainly because of the intense body condition done in traditional schools. IMHO Uechi-ryu, as a whole, is more hard core when it comes to Shime and Conditioning than Goju-ryu.

Shime and conditioning will vary among dojo. The Kenyukai, Uechi-ka pride themselves in their conditioning standards. In short an informal motto is "we can take a beating and deliver an even stonger beating."

ezzthetic

12-30-2005, 05:08

** sigh **

Yang Wei Xin

01-31-2006, 13:04

wasrong dadi?

CEB

01-31-2006, 13:15

What if your Goju Sensei also has a 4th Dan from Uechi??? :)

Yang Wei Xin

01-31-2006, 18:20

!bonus!
:karate:

shoshinkan

02-01-2006, 04:41

What if your Goju Sensei also has a 4th Dan from Uechi??? :)

then dont upset him/her...................................

Aefibird

06-07-2006, 08:51

My Sensei has a 5th Dan in Shotokan but he is also a Dan grade in Goju, Wado and Kyokushin, as well as having training experience in a number of other styles and arts. Lucky for us! :)

He teaches us aspects from all the arts he has studies/is studying and it makes us into well rounded martial artists (although we're working on losing weight ;) ;) )

There's no "best" style, just best for individual. I'm not a big fan of boxing and wouldn't consider training in it, however it doesn't mean that everyone who does boxing is wrong, it just means that they have taken a different training path to the one I'm on.

Markaso

06-07-2006, 11:54

All have something to teach. The best???? The one that works for you. I have practiced Go Jyu Ryu for about 19 years now. I see that we all have different goals and are on different paths. Which one is best is up to the practitioner. All are good depending on the person. I think that it is what you are looking for, that will become the best for you. Your path, your goal, your awakening.

rgoad

06-07-2006, 18:31

People will tell you there is no best style and tell you that you will get from it what you put in. HOWEVER, if you can find a school or style with lots of active and dedicated practitioners you will do MUCH better. Even if the teachers are the same you will do better with good student brothers to push and challenge you.

Gene Williams

06-07-2006, 21:52

rgoad

06-08-2006, 12:13

He's Ba-a-ack. :D

Gene Williams

06-08-2006, 12:28

He's Ba-a-ack. :D

I have been informed by the management that, due to technical difficulties, I am no longer able to change my avatar or my signature. A team of irony and humor engineers has been working on the problem, and they have determined that it is possibly due to extreme tension in the gluteal muscles of some of the moderator staff which, in turn, has caused a short circuit in the sense of humor generator located in the Budoseek engine. The constant sputtering and crackling of the generator irritates the master computer (Carver model #1), which causes it to send an interrupt code to my computer. I'm hoping that the I&H engineers will be able to determine that the interrupt code only fixes a symptom and not the underlying cause. We anxiously await further bulletins. :bow:

Jeff Burger

06-08-2006, 12:46

I still love ya Gene.

Gene Williams

06-08-2006, 12:50

I still love ya Gene.

Thanks, Jeff. I enjoyed the pics in the other thread. :)

Jeff C.

06-09-2006, 11:12

Gene, that's the problem - you have the wrong professionals working on your situation. The failure is not in your equipment, but in the equipment operator.

Welcome back brother!

Jeff Cook

Bugeisha

06-09-2006, 11:29

I have been informed by the management that, due to technical difficulties, I am no longer able to change my avatar or my signature. A team of irony and humor engineers has been working on the problem, and they have determined that it is possibly due to extreme tension in the gluteal muscles of some of the moderator staff which, in turn, has caused a short circuit in the sense of humor generator located in the Budoseek engine. The constant sputtering and crackling of the generator irritates the master computer (Carver model #1), which causes it to send an interrupt code to my computer. I'm hoping that the I&H engineers will be able to determine that the interrupt code only fixes a symptom and not the underlying cause. We anxiously await further bulletins. :bow:

This might be the best post ever.

Oh, and just for the sake of argument, the best karate style is Taekwondo.

;)

rgoad

06-14-2006, 21:04

How can that be? TKD isn't even a martial art. :)

Gene Williams

06-14-2006, 21:08

How can that be? TKD isn't even a martial art. :)

TKD is not karate either. I wish they would quit calling it that.

Bugeisha

06-14-2006, 21:45

Depends on the taekwondo, I would say. But that's an argument for another time.

Jeff C.

06-14-2006, 22:11

How can that be? TKD isn't even a martial art. :)

All joking aside (for a moment!), TKD is one of a few that CAN be correctly called a "martial" art. It is a formal part of military training in Korea. Not too many arts can make that claim.

Jeff Cook

kumite

06-14-2006, 22:44

Is it the entire South Korean army or just their special forces?

Jeff C.

06-15-2006, 05:08

Gene Williams

06-15-2006, 05:47

Billy, according to Wikepedia, it is part of a ROK Army field manual. Also, from the Marine Corps Gazette, "Nonetheless, tae kwon do was a martial art in the truest sense of the word, developed by a soldier to enhance the fighting abilities of his soldiers. By the time the first servicemen deployed to Vietnam, all branches of the Korean military had implemented martial arts training programs."

http://www.mca-marines.org/Gazette/2005/05durand.html

Jeff Cook

Jeff is correct. TKD, as originally conceived by General Choi. was indeed intended to be a combat art...and it was. I have a friend who has been around martial arts longer than me and who is hard core Okinawan karate, and he says that at one time TKD was a more effective combat art than karate. He quickly follows that by saying that most of that TKD is gone, at least in this country. You have to find old, established Ji Do Kwan or Chung Do Kwan schools to see it anymore.

Jeff Burger

06-15-2006, 06:25

Not to change the subject but....

I got to train with some airforce guys in Thailand and they did Judo. Gis, ranks....the whole 9 yards.
Was surprising to me seeing as Muay Thai is the national sport.

Jeff

rgoad

06-15-2006, 07:52

Jeff is, of course, correct. When I was in Korea TKD training was part of the daily cals. The took it very seriously and there were guys who were scary good. They integrated HKD or something like it for locks and all.

But this is a Karate thread, so I better stick to the topic or get FLAMED! :eek:

Gene Williams

06-15-2006, 08:48