My father told me.....

[Runar Bjaaland]

I was recently at a national training meeting for youth where my son was attending.
The national squad trainers were present and, upon meeting my father, were promptly told that the Judo today was nothing really worth looking at. :bandit:

Dad justified his view by saying that in the good old days (he has never played judo) people stood up and achieved clean throws where as now players bend crouched over and desperately attempt lunges that resemble judo technique.

My embarrassment :o was none the lessened when the senior trainer disclosed that he used these techniques in international competition, but graciously added that his reportoir included a mixture of old and new.

There has, in our locality, been some interest expressed in getting players to stand up like hominids by concentrating on Japanese forms of Kuzushi practiced in Uchi-Komi.

Is it possible to influence contest Judo through this type of
training and shift in emphasis? (can it compete?)

Curiosly
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[Abbax8]

Upright judo can compete and win against bent over judo. It really depends on the skill of the player. Bent over judo is more defensive in nature, often characterized by stiff arms and bullwork instead of blending kuzuzshi. However bent over judo while workable in a sport contest is less useful in a self defense situation. In the bent over posture you are esentially leading with your head. Upright judo allows for faster reactions to counter attacks against you, opening up more combinations. The upright fighter must stay light and balanced going with the force of the attack but guiding it. In my opinion uoright fighting is inherently a higher level skill. Before the days of Yuko and Koka the throws that decided a match were more spectaclar. Koka throws were sloppy judo. Yuko were unsuccessful attempts. However both fighters were given time to set up a throw, stalling was not called as fast and ground fighting was also allowed. There were problems with contests being boring at times, but todays contests also are boring at times. The changes that were initiated to make things more interesting in my opinion have failed. It would take a change in how matches are scored to bring back upright judo. It can be done, I don't know if it will happen. In the meantime each judoka is free to choose how they train and fight. bent over or upright. if your goal is to perfect your judo, then train to perfect it and ignore the win-loss record.

Peace

Dennis

[Skye]

Just allow knees to be thrown :)

[Jeff C.]

Tomoenage is the answer to bent-over posture. It is used successfully in BJJ for that reason.

Two things need to be done: ENFORCE the "excessive defense" rule, and do away with the "feinting" rule.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Abbax8]

O-Guruma is another technique that deals well with stiff arms and bent over posture.

Peace

Dennis

[Runar Bjaaland]

I agree with you Dennis, and its not because I qualify as old school.
It just seems to me that the upright stance allows for more development.
The problem is designing equally efficient and aggressive strategies for homo erectus :up:

Sutemi waza is surely a defence to this style but doesnt that lead to every one rap dancing :wink2:
O guruma was a tittilating offer Dennis. Nice one. :toast:
It would be interesting to develope this sort of thinking.

Let me try.
A remedy for stiff arming.
Harai goshi with a Tsuri komi goshi sweep of both Uki's arms and down by the side he is being swept on.

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[Runar Bjaaland]

Two things need to be done: ENFORCE the "excessive defense" rule, and do away with the "feinting" rule.
Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

Excuse my ignorance Jeff, could you elaborate on how these two rules work?

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow:

[wab25]

When I go against the bent over opponent I think its practice time for Sutemi waza. If you have a good Tomoenage and sumigaeshi, its play time when they bend over. Especially if they push you away when you go in for a hip throw. I have also had success using Kani Sute ( leg scissors throw ), and variations on makikomi and uki otoshi.

The stiff arms give good purchase for arm bars and wrist locks from the get go. The forward head gives good access to the neck for a guillotine type choke or neck bind. I am not sure how much of this is legal in judo, but these techniques are great for picking on people who bend over.

[Abbax8]

Two other techniques I have used with some success is: Tawara-Gaeshi. This requires tori to break ukis grasp and simultaneously get an under grasp around the stomach. O-Soto-Gari I discovered by accident. Epiphany may better describe it. I was in a tournament against a guy about my size but about 20 years younger. He was a yellow belt. He stiff armed and kept bent over. He attacked with a very hard Ko-Soto type move lunging in with his whole body. We were fighting Ai-Yotsu. His head ducked under my arm and my hand automatically regripped his belt. What happened next was the biggest O-Soto I have ever thrown. He leveled off waist high then went straight down. It would have never happened if he wasn't bent over, as if he was upright his head would never have gone under my arm. I got congratulated as I went off the mat. I said thanks- What happened? as I really was unsure as to how I won. :confused:

Peace

Dennis

[Runar Bjaaland]

It occurs to me that in order to change the dynamic that pulls Judo stances down, one must look upward. (This checks with other evolutionary shifts :wink2:)
Translated into Judo terms : the first pull of the jacket should be in the upward direction. Kuzushi should primarily aim to achieve lift.

The rice bale throw wasnt it Dennis. I have wondered if one achieves a full contact with the mat using that one, or is it a rolling Ippon?

Another defence against stiff arming is seoi-nage in which Tori, hooks both toris arms from the outside of the direction Tori is spinning into.
The entry forces Ukis arms awkwardly into his ribs.
Uki throws Tori over his own folded arms.
Not reccommended for kids, or anyone for that matter, but a defence it is.
Food for thought :rolleyes:
Is meeting force meeting force with force the answer here.

Cheers
Runar Bjaaland :bow: