Abnormal Pain Tolerance

[Jeff C.]

BJJ is turning me into a reptile.

Saturday while rolling with a fellow student, I made a quick turn and brought most of my weight down on my arm at an awkward angle. My shoulder made a "thunk-thunk" - extremely unpleasant, and somewhat painful for a couple of minutes. The shoulder felt like the humerus came out of joint and spontaneously went back into normal position of function.

I took a short break, but after a few minutes I had absolutely no pain, not even a twinge. I could fully rotate my arm. The only thing I noticed was a little fatigue and weakness in the shoulder area. But absolutely no pain. So I did what any devout BJJ idiot would do - I went back to rolling for the next hour or so.

Suffice it to say by that afternoon and into the next day my arm was useless. I finally went to the doc yesterday for NSAIDS and narcotics. The joint is swollen, bruised, very uncomfortable, and "loose" in the socket.

How many of you have experienced an injury on the mat in a low - to no-adrenaline situation, and not had any pain until hours later, only to find that your bone was broken or the joint dislocated?

Is BJJ killing my pain-receptor brain cells? My wife seems to think so. ;)

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[John Bennett]

Same thing with my knees.

During guard passing sparring at a Machado seminar a guy got frustrated because he couldn't pass my guard and did an alligator roll with my foot clutched under his armpit.

It rotated my knee. It didn't hurt that much at the time. I wanted to continue paticipating in the the seminar. Carlos Machado said no. Seminar is over for you. Go rest.

I was disappointed because my knee didn't hurt that bad. Carlos' experience paid off.

The next day I couldn't walk. Five years later it hurts even more. Had I continued, the damage would have been worse.

The guy was a bulked up cop from a small town. (Hapkido guy) Newbies with attitude are dangerous.

[Jeff C.]

John, what's wrong with us?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[John Bennett]

We are jiu-jitsu junkies. It's a disease.

Check it out...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=addiction

:)

[Jeff C.]

How are you getting your fix these days?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[John Bennett]

I'm not. I'm on hiatus. I'm hoping that someone will open a club near enough for me to train regularly. I'm hoping that I can get a new job in a town with a club sometime in the next year.

[Antares33]

I was rolling with my instructor, and he managed to catch me in some kind of modified Americana, I don't remember exactly how he did it. Anyway, my shoulder is really flexible and I can often just lay there and resist an Americana until the opponent just gives up. I made the mistake of trying this against a brown belt. I was holding out just fine, until my elbow, not my shoulder made a very audible pop. People rolling elsewhere in the school heard it.

My instructor immediately let go, but other than the pop I really didn't feel any pain... until the next morning when I could barely move my arm. The joint hurt for probably a month after that.


I've also, of course, noticed a general tolerance for "annoying" kind of pain you feel from someone grinding you, or doing knee on belly that you eventually learn doesn't really cause any damage, but would send many people off screaming.

[Luebbers]

That can be a surprising hazard for the key lock. From what I understand, the elbow is as likely (if not moreso) to dislocate as the shoulder.

[John Bennett]

Jamie, I once did that when I was first starting in BJJ. I was sparring an aggressive blue belt in Austin, Texas. He got me in a key lock. I laid there and thought "Hmm, I don't believe I know a way out of this briar patch" ...when I should have been tapping like a madman.

He knew he had the lock. I didn't.

He got frustrated at my lack of immediate submission. He tucked my elbow into my rib and laid into it. I heard the same pop you heard.

The next day I drove 250 miles home from Austin using only my left arm. My right arm was incapacitated for weeks after. My boss at work was not happy.

TAP EARLY, TAP OFTEN!

Unfortunately for me as a newbie, the school I visited in Austin was poorly run. The atmosphere was big on ego, and small on learning.

Back then BJJ instruction was sparse, expensive, and hard to find. We took what we could get and were happy for it. (uphill both ways to school :)). That was 7 years ago and my shoulder still hurts to this day.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of training *only* under experienced instructors in a friendly, productive environment.

BJJ is dangerous. Training mistakes in other martial arts result in merely a bloody nose or watery eye. In BJJ, Judo, and Jujitsu, training mistakes can result in permanent, expensive, life-altering injuries.

I think we sometimes fail to give BJJ training the wary respect it deserves. I know I have in the past.

[Webmaster]

A high pain tolerance is not just a BJJ trait, it is a Jujutsu of all flavors trait. I am one of those types that flips the switch and can turn off pain. Of course, that is probably why I have nice new $80K after-market hip now. ;)

[DragonMind]

A high pain tolerance is not just a BJJ trait, it is a Jujutsu of all flavors trait. I am one of those types that flips the switch and can turn off pain. Of course, that is probably why I have nice new $80K after-market hip now. ;)
Then I guess it carries over to the JJ derivatives too. :laugh: I'm a long time hapkido guy who just went under the knife yesterday for the fourth time in four years (both knees rebuilt, cervical fusion, and now shoulder/clavicle bone reshaping). And what is sick is that I'm upset because I can't go to Arnis tomorrow. :eek:

[Webmaster]

... And what is sick is that I'm upset because I can't go to Arnis tomorrow. :eek:
Sick b@st@rds ain't we? ;)

I am thrilled cause I can now do sharp pivoting on the side of my newly reengineered hip and it only screws me up for a day afterwards now! yoohoo!

[Cliff Hargrave]

I have a higher tolerance to just about anything except my wrists! Too many years of wrist locks took their toll I guess.

[Jeff Burger]

I have a permenant tear in my left shoulder a occasionally it comes out. I just twist and turn and it pretty much goes back in.
Same with my middle finger on my right hand.
I have had stress fracture in my left foot for almost 2 months now. I still jog, jump rope, hit the bag (using heel for front kick now though)...everything.
My doc comes back from vacation next week. Hopefully he will be able to set it.

We did alot of conditioning to impact in my early training. But that could never compare to really bad sciatica for 2 years. That really built my pain tolerance.

Jeff

[John Bennett]

In the motorcycle world we have a saying "Eventually, everybody has to quit riding".

There comes a time when a man MUST stop riding motorcycles. I've seen it happen to several of my older friends. It's a sad thing.

Sometimes they start taking high-blood pressure medicine that ruins their balance. Sometimes they become too weak to hold the bike up at red lights. Sometimes they have inattention spells that put them in the ditch.

I guess the same thing happens with martial arts. Fortunately, there are less demanding martial arts we can transition to that will allow us to train far into old age.

Ever notice how older MA'ists tend to get more interested in the philosophical and "soft" side of the arts? :)

We'll all wind up there someday friends.

[TonyU]

Many moons ago when I was a recently promoted yudansha in karate, I was allowed to participate in another affiliated dojo's black belt testing. A testee needed a partner for a particular yakusoku kumite. Being a new black belt and wanting to show off (ego of course) I went at him like a freight train. Him being nervous (of course) his timing was slightly off, or was it mine? Either way I managed to front kick him full force on his elbow, all the force being directed on my big toe of my right foot. I did not feel pain when I hit, but when I placed my foot back on the floor it didn't feel right. When I looked down it didn't look right either. My big toe was pointing straight up at me :eek: .
I then stomped my foot on the floor and popped my toe back in place and continued with the testing. The foot swelled up but I didn't feel the pain until approximately half hour after class then the pain really kicked in. I actually had to lean, sit or lay where I could put my leg up to try to stop the throbbing. It took weeks before I coud walk right, and months before I could even tough my toe with out a grimace.
And recently I was in BJJ class rolling with a senior student and he placed me in an arm bar. I initially tried the escapes that I was taught but it was too late. I tapped and continued with my training, no problem right? Wrong, It turns out I hyperextended it and wasn't aware of it. The next day I couldn't straighten my arm out.

[Abbax8]

Make sure you guys are training with the proper equipment. Lack of proper gear causes many problems in MA:

A) ages 5 to 12 only needs a good instructor
B) 13 to 35, if constantly in MA, needs larger belt, softer mats, bottle of aspirin and a hot shower.
C)36 to 50 , same as (B) but add good chiropractor/masseuse, hot tub and a good health plan.
D) 50 plus, same as (C) but add many MA friends to talk/drink and comiserate with as you all sit in the hot tub.

Peace

Dennis

[TonyU]

Make sure you guys are training with the proper equipment. Lack of proper gear causes many problems in MA:

A) ages 5 to 12 only needs a good instructor
B) 13 to 35, if constantly in MA, needs larger belt, softer mats, bottle of aspirin and a hot shower.
C)36 to 50 , same as (B) but add good chiropractor/masseuse, hot tub and a good health plan.
D) 50 plus, same as (C) but add many MA friends to talk/drink and comiserate with as you all sit in the hot tub.

Peace

Dennis
:laugh: That's good. Even though I fall into the C age group, I recently follwed B. I now carry a bottle of "BAYER, BACK AND BODY PAIN" in my gear bag with the assorment of bandages and tape. My wife calls me a masochist. I told her what John stated that I'm just a Martial Arts Junkie.
It's ironic really, when I'm home and can't get to the dojo, this forum gives me a temporary fix, long enough untill I turn on the TV and start working out in front of it.

[DragonMind]

In the motorcycle world we have a saying "Eventually, everybody has to quit riding".

There comes a time when a man MUST stop riding motorcycles. I've seen it happen to several of my older friends. It's a sad thing.

Sometimes they start taking high-blood pressure medicine that ruins their balance. Sometimes they become too weak to hold the bike up at red lights. Sometimes they have inattention spells that put them in the ditch.

I guess the same thing happens with martial arts. Fortunately, there are less demanding martial arts we can transition to that will allow us to train far into old age.

Ever notice how older MA'ists tend to get more interested in the philosophical and "soft" side of the arts? :)

We'll all wind up there someday friends.

BAH! I'll ride my bike into the grave. When I can't hold it up any more I'll add a sidecar or go to a trike. You get old when you quit riding, not the other way around. :laugh:

[SIR_TAPSALOT]

Hello fellow BJJ addicts:

I'm new here, my first post. I found the place by accident...but I'm glad I did because I love talking about Jiu Jitsu and the mental game behind it.

I guess I must be the freak here when it comes to pain because I've got a low tolerance for it, even though I've been married for 12 years. ;) Either that or I'm overly cautious to an extreme.

I've had my nose broken twice. Once when wrestling in highschool which gave me a nice lump in the middle of an already oversized proboscus and the second time when a doctor had to reset it after straightening out my septum. The operation was a good 4 years ago but I'll tell you what. When I get whacked in the nose at practice, which isn't very often, it's like an "off" button. I want to stop immediately. I don't always stop but damn....unlike you guys...I feel the pain immediately and it kills my will to fight when I'm sure it should make me more determined to submit the guy I'm wrestling. The other "major" injury I had as a teenager was when was chasing a ball playing tennis and I landed on the side of my ankle, causing one of the worst ligament tears possible. Immediate pain and swelling. My brother had to carry me a quarter mile to the car....(I guess I'm a wimp) and I was in a cast up to my knee for the entire summer. My parents couldn't afford rehab so I walked on a f'd up ankle for a long, long time.

I'd like to get to the point where I can work my way out of a submission attempt but when a guy has a tight lock on a joint and he's determined in practice to make me tap...I TAP AND TAP FAST! I want to compete too bad to be injured repeatedly during practice and joint injuries and ligament injuries would seem to be a detriment to flexibility in the long run.

The other thing about me.

I've only been practicing BJJ for a couple months now and it's kicking my butt. I love it...I hurt bad afterwards, muscle soreness, joint pain (and I'm only 34) but I can see a difference in my stamina and strength which is one of the reasons I started "grappling" again. There's nothing like being in wrestling shape...I'm hoping I can get my conditioning back to where I was at 20...better yet...High School.


SIR_TAPSALOT (Clay Marion)

[Eye4NEye]

(both knees rebuilt, cervical fusion, and now shoulder/clavicle bone reshaping).

Hey, Barry. Did you have a repetition injury/shoulder impingement from too much arnis? I'm looking at that same surgery for my left shoulder. (Mine was caused by splitting too much wood.)

[Tony Dismukes]

Clay, I'm with you. I'm a big fan of not hurting.

That said, I've acquired the ability through much practice of being able to ignore pain when I have to. I just do my best to avoid it in the first place - and yes, I tap early and often.

Dennis - that hot tub and masseuse (my wife) are indispensable in my training. I'd have a hard time recovering between one class and the next without them.

[Jeff C.]

Clay, welcome to Budoseek!

Jeff Cook

[Antares33]

Welcome Clay!

For what its worth, for the first 6 months or so of me doing BJJ I would go home at night feeling like I got hit with a freight train. Over the course of the next couple years I've noticed that a combination of the abnormal pain tolerance we've been talking about, and the fact that over time you learn to relax while rolling which prevents all sorts of accidental type injuries, allows me to feel much less beat up after training.

A good buddy of mine started around 4 months ago, and he's going through the same basic thing I did, so I don't think it was unique to me.

The downside is that now I've got more chronic type injuries to worry about. Have I mentioned that the elbow I was talking about back on the first page still bothers me sometimes? I'm pretty sure I'll be using it to predict the weather in another 20 years or so.

[DragonMind]

Hey, Barry. Did you have a repetition injury/shoulder impingement from too much arnis? I'm looking at that same surgery for my left shoulder. (Mine was caused by splitting too much wood.)
No, hapkido. The Arnis is actually helping me maintain good flex and range of motion in my recovering shoulder.

[Jango007]

Wait, I thought someone said bjj was one of the safest ma in terms of injuries?

I am going to be doing BJJ soon but after viewing this thread it is making me reconsider. I don't care about the pain, its the perment injury am thinking about. My future job requires me to have a class 1 medical (the highest standard) so this might be a problem!

[Matthew Jones]

Learn how to take good falls, and always mindful of what you are doing even during basic drills (harder than you might think). You should be fine except for the freak accidents which happen in any martial art.

[Antares33]

I don't see any higher incidence of injury in BJJ than in any other MA I've practiced, or for that matter any serious sport I've ever played.

In my 23 years on the planet, the most serious sporting injury I've ever seen first hand happened on the baseball diamond.... so like Matthew said. Be careful, tap often, and realize you're taking the same calculated risk you'd be taking doing any other similar physical activity.

[Jango007]

Learn how to take good falls, and always mindful of what you are doing even during basic drills (harder than you might think). You should be fine except for the freak accidents which happen in any martial art.


In my 23 years on the planet, the most serious sporting injury I've ever seen first hand happened on the baseball diamond.... so like Matthew said. Be careful, tap often, and realize you're taking the same calculated risk you'd be taking doing any other similar physical activity.

Cool, I will remember the advice you guys have given.
Cheers,
Jango.

[doubleouch]

I've always found that new students usually have a low pain tollerance. They tap to some positions and cranks that an advanced belt would never tap to. I think after thousands of taps you sort of get used to the pain and develop a knowledge of when you are in danger and when it just hurts. This is part of the learning curve. Every once in awhile us old dogs do get caught though. Training over 30 means always having some injury.

Jeff, your bio looks impressive. How long you been training BJJ?

[sesshoumaru]

i don't think it's that uncommon, i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.

[bvermillion]

i don't think it's that uncommon, i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.


Can you stop speeding trains and leap tall buildings in a single bound as well?

[Cliff Hargrave]

i don't think it's that uncommon, i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.

Thrown by who?

[Dennis Monk]

i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.

You may not flinch, that I can believe.
I also bet that you will bleed, swell and bruise.

[Gordon Nore]

i don't think it's that uncommon, i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.
Ethan,
Is this something you have done on your own? In your dojo? With or without your Sensei's knowledge? A few details please.

[doubleouch]

I'm sure he was kidding? Easy enough to test though.

[sesshoumaru]

Hapkido...it was in a competition...he was wearing gear...but it was not padded very well...and the punch wasn't controlled at all...he threw it out there not wanting to stop it...and i sure i would bleed (to Dennis Monk) i'm not saying i won't, but i didn't and my nose did turn red...(doubleouch) how can you be so sure? i wouldn't lie about this kind of stuff. (Cliff Hargrave) it was my younger cousin but he's always been a huge (word i don't wanna say on the internet) in that sense that if he was fightning me he wouldn't miss the chance to get a good contact, even if it meant disqualification.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Hapkido...it was in a competition...he was wearing gear...but it was not padded very well...and the punch wasn't controlled at all...he threw it out there not wanting to stop it...and i sure i would bleed (to Dennis Monk) i'm not saying i won't, but i didn't and my nose did turn red...(doubleouch) how can you be so sure? i wouldn't lie about this kind of stuff. (Cliff Hargrave) it was my younger cousin but he's always been a huge (word i don't wanna say on the internet) in that sense that if he was fightning me he wouldn't miss the chance to get a good contact, even if it meant disqualification.

Then your statement should not have been:

...i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face and not even flinch.

But instead should have been:

...i can take a full blown reverse punch to the face from my cousin, who is younger than 15 years old, wearing padded gloves, and not even flinch.

[Antares33]

I wouldn't be so harsh cliff.

I once took a full blown left hook to the head and didn't even flinch. In fact, it was such a minor incident that I must have decided to settle in for a little nap afterwards because the first thing I remember after getting hit was my sparring partner helping me up off the mat.

[Luebbers]

I've always found that new students usually have a low pain tollerance. They tap to some positions and cranks that an advanced belt would never tap to. I think after thousands of taps you sort of get used to the pain and develop a knowledge of when you are in danger and when it just hurts. This is part of the learning curve. Every once in awhile us old dogs do get caught though. Training over 30 means always having some injury.

Jeff, your bio looks impressive. How long you been training BJJ?

I think some of that stems from panic. When someone is half-smothering your, half-choking you, or half cranking your neck and you don't know proper defense or even what exactly your opponent is doing to you, it's easy to succumb to panic and just tap out. Combine that with exhaustion and you can double that sentiment.

[Jeff C.]

I've always found that new students usually have a low pain tollerance. They tap to some positions and cranks that an advanced belt would never tap to. I think after thousands of taps you sort of get used to the pain and develop a knowledge of when you are in danger and when it just hurts. This is part of the learning curve. Every once in awhile us old dogs do get caught though. Training over 30 means always having some injury.

Jeff, your bio looks impressive. How long you been training BJJ?

Sorry Cane. I just saw this. I don't remember exactly when I started BJJ; I would say I have averaged about twice a month on the BJJ mat for the last four years.

Jeff Cook