did I make a mistake???

[spader]

I am new to BJJ. Just went to class and rolled hard. Never hurt anyone. Ne ver threatned anyone. Just went there to roll and have a good time. I've been doing it for 3 months, just getting back into it after ACL reconstruction. ANYWAY...
We had a BJJ seminar held at our school this past week..no gi and then gi..I did GI because I got the times mixed up. At the end of class I saw a student go up and ask the Brazilian Black belt to roll (no gi). No big deal.
Well at the end of my class I did the same. I went hard but didnt get anything and ended up tapping do to a 2 min. knee ride. Couldnt figure out how to get him from going back and forth. Oh well it was expected. I enjoyed it.
I hear today from "him" that I disrespected him. That It was bad to ask him to roll. I was totally shocked. He took it that I called him out in class to show off in front of the class. How in the world is it showing off to get totally owned for 5 min. I am 215 and I can tap most people in class with strength and a little tech. We have one other my size and the rest are under 200. I got schooled by a 165 Lb. I knew it would happen, everyone else knew it would happen. I was told that I could go to his school just on Sat. For sparring and rolling. And he would see how it went from there. This really sucks because I thought the Brazilian was a super person all around and I looked up to him.
Anyway to save this..Is it disrespectfull to do this? I went up to him and just asked if he wanted to roll with me....not around anyone..not loud..just asked..

[Andrew Green]

I'd say no... but some instructors are... well... a little "odd" :D

best rule of thumb is don't ever do anything that will make you stand out until you got a feel for the instructors views on things...

It's all a matter of perspective and personality

[Cliff Hargrave]

Different culture, different expectations. I have "heard" in Brazil that you are not supposed to ask a person of a higher rank to roll and it's considered disrespectful. However if a higher rank asks you to roll then you have to accept or you are considered a wimp. I cannot verify the accuracy of this, just something I heard from friends that have been to Brazil.

Now, if it really bothers you then when you get a chance, speak to the guy and explain how you didn't know that would offend him and apologize. If he is a good person then it should be forgotten. If he still has a problem with it, then don't waste your time with him.

Don't get caught up in the Brazilian politics. That is one thing I really want to see go away here. I have seen it first hand and it is actually silly sometimes. I have seen some super tough Brazilian fighters act like junior high girls with their feelings hurt.

[Sanjuro]

LOL, that whole "disrespect" thing about asking superior grades to spar is pure crap. Anyone that insecure shouldn't bother getting out on the mat in the first place. I used to make a point of periodically asking superior grades to spar/roll, just to see how I was progressing. My thought process was:

"He tapped me in under a minute last time, lets see if I can hold out a bit longer" or "he kicked my *** last time, lets see if I can catch him with a few"

I always asked politely and AFAIK, nobody has ever taken offence with it...

I always ask questions on how to improve my game afterwards too.

[Mike S]

I don't think that you disrespected him at all. If he felt that it was disrespect, why did he agree to roll?? If he didn't want to, he could have said so. My BJJ inst. has attended many, as well as hosted many seminars with his inst. Roy Harris. He (Roy) has no prob. doing that.

Mike Slosek

[Erik]

You could go clear the air by telling him that you did not mean to be disrespectful but, on the contrary, were hoping that you could sieze the opportunity to learn a bunch by rolling with a black belt, seeing and feeling how he did things, and how it is different from what you're used to, and that you were sure glad of the chance to do so, so thanks.

You could also mention that you couldn't imagine how it would be rude to ask to roll with someone of that level - if anything, it's meant to be respectful as you were so into his seminar that just watching wasn't enough.

This might clear the air for you.

Good luck. I've never heard of such a thing, by the way. All the black belts (or any belts, actually) I know like to roll and enjoy the chance to work out. If they're too tired or not in the mood, they say so.

[Erik]

My BJJ inst. has attended many, as well as hosted many seminars with his inst. Roy Harris. He (Roy) has no prob. doing that.You're a lucky guy to train under Roy or under a guy who trained under him.

I trained with him a little 10+ years ago in La Jolla. I found him to be a great athlete and a delightful guy.

[Mike S]

You're a lucky guy to train under Roy or under a guy who trained under him.

I trained with him a little 10+ years ago in La Jolla. I found him to be a great athlete and a delightful guy.

I hear nothing but positive things about him. Unfortunately, the times that he has come to CT. I've been unable to make it. One of these days, I hope to have the pleasure of meeting him.

Mike Slosek

[Erik]

Sieze the chance if it avails itself to you.

As I remember him, Roy was one of those guys you simply cannot help but to like.

[John Bennett]

Anyway to save this..Is it disrespectfull to do this?

What you did is in fact sometimes perceived as a mild breach of etiquette. Usually students do not ask higher ranks to roll in a classroom situation. To do so is considered impolite. Disrespectful is too strong a word.

However, at a seminar black belts are supposed to take into consideration that guys who are new to BJJ scene don't know about this vauge custom. It also sounds like "He" was being a bit thin-skinned.

Take into the consideration other factors like:

.if he was tired from teaching
.how much bigger you are than the other students
.the way you asked him
.how hard you came after him
.whether you let your ego show a bit
(why didn't stop and ask a question when you couldn't escape?)

Subjecting you two a 2-minute knee-ride indicates to me that he was humiliating you because he felt you were coming after him.

If you really want to train under the guy, I suggest you swallow your pride and apologize. You don't have to mean it :) just explain that you didn't understand you were being impolite and you wish to apologize.

I bet he would be embarrassed by his show of ego and say "Don't worry about it my friend. You are good guy".

[Dennis Monk]

I say break out the ninja skills and really flip out on him. :D

Actually I agree with what John said. If it was a seminar though, I would think that would have been appropriate.

[Mike S]

Sieze the chance if it avails itself to you.

As I remember him, Roy was one of those guys you simply cannot help but to like.

Absolutely!!! My inst. as well as my training partners speak very highly of him!!

Mike Slosek

[spader]

.if he was tired from teaching
.how much bigger you are than the other students
.the way you asked him
.how hard you came after him
.whether you let your ego show a bit
(why didn't stop and ask a question when you couldn't escape?)

John thats kind of right on. He said that I went F**** crazy when we started to roll. Then he mentioned that I knew he was tired from 2 seminars and not having eaten during the day.....
I atteneded a seminar in toledo before I knew what the gaurd was.. I believe it was saulos school...There was a Brazilian Black belt that put that one on and at the end of the class he rolled with all 24 people non stop. Went right down the row and tapped everyone.....I lasted maybe 10 sec....really 10 seconds. then we got to roll with whoever else.
Well now I know.

[nythius]

Forget him, there are plenty of other BJJ blackbelts out there wiulling to give seminars and it sound sliek he's the type who's kidna stuck on himself due to his position of power. I'm sure there are a lot better teachers out there who are also a lot friendlier people. We had Royce for a seminar at our place and he's a super cool guy. Really layed back, funny, down to earth...on top of being one of the top BJJ artists and fighters around. If you ever get a chance to attend a Royce Gracie seminar, do it. If not tho, liek i said there are tons of other gtreat BJJ teachers around, if he does'nt realize that as a teacher, the only way to keep his art alive is to pass it on to others and avoid putting up these stupid walls of abstract etiquette than he's not a very good teacher. Honestly...if he was a good teacher and it's such a golden rule, you'd think you'd have learned it duringhte seminar.

[Erik]

Write him a little note or go clear the air with him. It's the honorable thing to do.

Maybe he was being a baby, maybe your attitude at the time clashed with his fatigue and pressure from being watched by a group, etc.

Just tell him you're sorry and meant well and you hope the two of you can get past it. Make it brief and clear and then you'll have done the right thing.

Maybe next time you bump into him he'll remember you for having class and ask you to roll.