And you think your grading's tough!

[David Craik]

Found this documentary about the Kendo hachidan grading held twice a year in Japan. It's 46 minutes long, but well worth watching these masters in action. According to the film, often less than 1% pass. Inspiring stuff, I think.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~sgran/8dan.wmv

[Dennis Monk]

I am watching this right now.
Very interesting.

[Dennis Monk]

That video was incredible. Those guys have such an awesome spirit for advancement. I was talking to my instructor and he told me that when he traveled to Japan, several years ago, he got the oportunity to visit a Kendo dojo in Kyoto. He said those guys take their art much more seriously than most people here could imagine.

[Abbax8]

I watched the video a couple of weeks ago, REALLY ENJOYED IT, wish I understood japanese. I remember as a teen having promotional tests in judo starting at 9:00 a.m. and going until 7 or 8 at night, killers. Many people passed, some failed.

Peace

Dennis

[David Craik]

It's a shame the kanji covers the English subtitles when the kendoka are speaking, you have to read really fast. I think there's a lot that I could learn about humility and dedication from men like these.

[Abbax8]

Someone posted a translation. I haven't taken the time to read it. I'll try to find it.

Peace

Dennis

[Abbax8]

Here it is

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7464

Peace

Dennis

[David Craik]

Whoops, didn't even realize that clip had already been posted here....I only skimmed through that thread and didn't watch the clip.

Sorry bout that. Thanks to Stan for the translation.

[_Xi]

Why do the police learn kendo? Wouldn't it be more sensible to teach them aikido :p? The police dont carry around swords, do they?

[David Craik]

Many people in Japan do or have done Kendo. It is even part of the physical fitness program in many schools, and most universities have teams. It is considered excellent for fitness as well as teaching focus and instilling spirit.

A lot of Japanese police officers practice other martial arts, including Aikido. I'm not really sure if the pursuit of Kendo is so much a job-related activity for police officers, or simply due to the fact that it is very popular. The standard carry weapon for police in Japan is a long stick though (and believe me they know how to use it!), so I could see how Kendo could be beneficial :D

[Cliff Hargrave]

I really enjoyed that.

I didn't know you could use two swords in kendo.

[David Craik]

That was a bit suprising to me, the choice of using ni-to (two swords) for a hachidan grading, as from my limited understanding judges tend to be a bit biased against using it. It seemed to catch Miyamoto a bit off guard though.

From some posts at Kendo World, his story seems to have taken a sad turn. He appears to have had to get a pacemaker which precluded him trying again, and has since passed away - though I have been unable to verify this. If anyone has any information about Miyamoto-sensei I would be most grateful. Amazing man.

[ACRAWFORD]

from my experience japanese police kendo is differant from todays kendo for the masses. They still use the old techniques such as throws and sweeps, kicks and others. It is much more rigorous.

[David Craik]

Thanks, Andre, I didn't know that any sort of kendo had those techniques.

I wonder if it's difficult for police kendoka like Ishida-sensei to change back to "regular" kendo for a tournament...it sure would be something if he accidentally went into "police kendo" mode and flung his opponent on his backside during a match :laugh:

[StanLee]

Whoops, didn't even realize that clip had already been posted here....I only skimmed through that thread and didn't watch the clip.

Sorry bout that. Thanks to Stan for the translation.

Don't thank me for the translation, thank the guys over at kendoworld.

Yes pre war kendo was a lot more "rougher" :wink2:

[Mikey Triangles]

That was a bit suprising to me, the choice of using ni-to (two swords) for a hachidan grading, as from my limited understanding judges tend to be a bit biased against using it. It seemed to catch Miyamoto a bit off guard though.



He he, you have to appreciate the irony though. After all it was Miyamoto (Musashi ofcourse) that pretty much invented that style.

[David Craik]

Yup, I had thought of that too :D

[Mikey Triangles]

I hope Miyamoto passes that test before he passes away. You have to admire the spirit and dedication he has to go back and try again every year.

[Kaoru]

He he, you have to appreciate the irony though. After all it was Miyamoto (Musashi ofcourse) that pretty much invented that style.


Hehehe, Yeah, the irony is funny! But, shinai and Kendo weren't even around in Musashi's time! Nito Ryu(Also called Nito Kendo) hasn't a thing to do with what Musashi did. And, there are other Koryu that has two sword waza in it. Musashi just happens to be the most famous person who used two swords in his Ryuha, which is not Kendo related.

But yeah, I did note the irony in the name of the one Kenshi. :) Funny! But also funny, since Musashi didn't do Kendo. :D

[David Craik]

True, the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu contains nito techniques and was around before Musashi was born.

I've often wondered where the nito in kendo comes from, because unless I'm mistaken, the Itto ryu from which it came has none.

[Kaoru]

True, the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu contains nito techniques and was around before Musashi was born.

I've often wondered where the nito in kendo comes from, because unless I'm mistaken, the Itto ryu from which it came has none.


I don't know where the Nito in Kendo comes from. But, I do know it was not from Musashi for sure. Maybe Hyaku-sensei will know. :) Maybe I'll go ask him.

I also know nothing about Itto Ryu... Need to find out!

[Mikey Triangles]

But yeah, I did note the irony in the name of the one Kenshi. :) Funny! But also funny, since Musashi didn't do Kendo. :D



I didn't even think "Kendo" existed when Mushashi was alive... though I haven't read into the subject that deeply... I have a copy of The Book of the Five Rings on order :)

[Mikey Triangles]

Oh, and the reason I made that post was to get the facts straight... the narrator of the video we just watched said:

"Miyamoto has seldom fought against a kendoist imploring a two-sword style. The two-sword style of kendo developed by the legendary Miyamoto Musashi almost 400 years ago uses a short sword to mislead the opponent and strikes with the long sword when an opening arises."


As I said I didn't even know that "Kendo" (as we know it) existed when Musashi was alive, but according to the narrator of that video he developed the ni-to style of kendo. Maybe there were no Shinai, but I'm pretty sure Musashi had Boken...

I haven't read much about kendo yet, and I'm a bit confused now... who's got the facts, Kaoru or that National Geographic guy?




(Sorry, too late to edit it in.)

[David Craik]

That remark on the tape made me go "huh?" too. I don't know from where kendo got its nito, but it's a pretty safe bet that Musashi wasn't the first samurai to use two swords. This is seen in scrolls produced by Yagyu Sekishusai of the YSR in 1601, nearly 40 years before the formation of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu. The illustrations entitled Chiraten and Karanbo show a samurai using nito for korandome and surete koran uchimonodome.

[Mikey Triangles]

That remark on the tape made me go "huh?" too. I don't know from where kendo got its nito, but it's a pretty safe bet that Musashi wasn't the first samurai to use two swords. This is seen in scrolls produced by Yagyu Sekishusai of the YSR in 1601, nearly 40 years before the formation of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu kenjutsu. The illustrations entitled Chiraten and Karanbo show a samurai using nito for korandome and surete koran uchimonodome.


*Looks up a buncha words in this post* Ah, thank you :)

[potentpoefie]

Maybe my lack of experience is just shining through here but that is not such a tough grading. Sure they grade tough but the actually phisical part of it is nothing unless I am missing something big here.

They have four boughts. 4 x 120 seconds = 480 seconds = 8 minutes.

Sure they are stressed but surely 8 minutes of physical stuff the whole day is not that taxing???

Our gradings are 2 hours long but then it is physical for those whole two hours and before that there is a gashuku (training camp) that starts from 7 am up until 3pm, with only an hour lunch break. Only after this the grading starts (round about 3:15pm). I find that much more physically taxing than just 8 minutes. From 1st Dan we already have to write a exam.

I do agree the grade criteria is very tough but making a big deal about starting at 9 and ending at 9 is not really that big a deal if what you do is wait around for most of that 12 hours.

Maybe I am just not getting it or maybe you guys made such a fuss about it that I had to high expectations.

[StanLee]

Maybe my lack of experience is just shining through here but that is not such a tough grading. Sure they grade tough but the actually phisical part of it is nothing unless I am missing something big here.

They have four boughts. 4 x 120 seconds = 480 seconds = 8 minutes.

Sure they are stressed but surely 8 minutes of physical stuff the whole day is not that taxing???

Our gradings are 2 hours long but then it is physical for those whole two hours and before that there is a gashuku (training camp) that starts from 7 am up until 3pm, with only an hour lunch break. Only after this the grading starts (round about 3:15pm). I find that much more physically taxing than just 8 minutes. From 1st Dan we already have to write a exam.

I do agree the grade criteria is very tough but making a big deal about starting at 9 and ending at 9 is not really that big a deal if what you do is wait around for most of that 12 hours.

Maybe I am just not getting it or maybe you guys made such a fuss about it that I had to high expectations.

Don't have the time at the moment to fully reply to this. But that taxing is not your normal "physical" taxing. Remember it is a hachidan test, and not just any test of physical strength or stamina. Also one of these guys is in their 80's.

[potentpoefie]

Sure and he has my admost respect.

I really hope that one day when I am almost 80 I would still be able to practice my martial art as he does.

I was just expecting a bit more than what I got.

It should read more something like "Strictest Grading" and not "Toughest Grading"

[potentpoefie]

I am sure I had a post on this thread.

Must be since Stan Lee quoted from it.

Are you not allowed an opinion anymore? I thought this is what forums where all about. People discussing topics close to there hearts. Yet, I find myself being edited for no reason.

I did not use any foul language. I have conformed to the norm and added my name to the posts and yet I find myself somewhere on the editing floor. The previous posts were on topic.

My second post gave the 80 year old all the credit due to him and yet that ended on the editting floor again.

Now this post can be edited since it is really very off topic and I do apologize for that. I just feel I got shafted here. Not really the Martial Art spirit I find here. I find hostility all around me. Maybe I'll get banned for this but I find myself at a lack of tears from being banned from a forum that proclaims bushido and act so without honour as this.

It is not to say that if somebody doesn't agree with your believes that it is wrong. If that was so we would have never had Jeet Kon Do because Bruce Lee would have never been allowed to question Tradition Kung Fu.

That is my 2c worth.

Hope tomorrow I will be allowed to log back in since I feel there is a lot to be learned and shared here.

[David Craik]

Lin, the posts were edited for precisely the reason noted (click thumbnail below), not due to the opinion you expressed or for anything else. At the time they were deleted, your signature had not been set up nor were they manually signed, despite the fact that you had been reminded of this rule twice by two different people in the 'iaito' thread prior to you making these posts here.

I have no desire to ban anyone, and editing the posts seemed a gentler way rather than simply banning you for having not complied (12 times) with a rule you agreed to. As you now have included your name in your signature, I have restored your posts.

Hope to see more of your posts here in the future.

[David Craik]

From the Oxford English dictionary:

tough:

• adjective 1. strong enough to withstand wear and tear. 2. able to endure hardship, adversity, or pain. 3.strict and uncompromising. 4. involving considerable difficulty or hardship. 5. rough or violent. 6. used to express a lack of sympathy.


"Tough", I believe, is apt enough verbiage for a test which less that 1% pass, and the adjective is not resticted to those activities which are physically exhausting (though a nanadan-level kendo match for an octagenerian is likely far from a walk in the park!).

An entrance exam to Cambridge or a thesis on abiogenesis to be graded by Stephen Hawking could be properly described as "tough" too, though they involve little in the way of physical exertion.

[potentpoefie]

OK.....OK.

<tap><tap><tap> That's the sound of me tapping out.

You got me. :o

I couldn't help but smile when I saw you went to the Oxford English Dictionary.

Aren't you an American and isn't it well documented that Americans don't speak English? :wink2:

[David Craik]

Nope, I'm not American, though that will change within the next couple years.

[TonyU]

Nope, I'm not American, though that will change within the next couple years.
You are Marine though, right? That makes you an American in my book. I'm curious though, if I may ask? What is you heritage?

[David Craik]

Yeah, you'd think after 17 years in the USMC I'd be declared a US citizen by default, eh? :)

My father's side is Scottish (from my grandfather back) and my mother's side is Dutch/German (great-grandparents back).

Most Americans seem pretty surprised to learn of my place of birth, and without fail ask either if my parents were missionaries or if my father was in the military (which he was - in the South African Army, though that has nothing to do with my place of birth). Seems a lot of folk here don't really grasp the concept that there really are other countries out there - and people can in fact be born there without their parents having come from the United States. :)

Though to be fair, as I have no accent and have lived here so long, it is reasonable that people simply assume I'm American.

Now, shouldn't we be talking about swords or something? :D

[David Craik]

Hehe, don't sweat the thread drift, Tony. I'm guilty too:)

I split your question into it's own thread, cause it's a good one!