Boxing as an effective art?

[J4d3]

i was wondering what everyone thought about modern boxing and its relation to self defense. for example could it handle a lot of situations? i've been debating its effectiveness for a while and would like some feedback.

[David Craik]

I think boxing is excellent training, and teaches good self defense skills. It is only my opinion, but the boxers I've met train very hard and have superior striking skills to many of the martial artists I've met at about the same level.

It seems that others are of the same opinion with regard to the power of boxing punches, as both the Marine Corps Martial Arts system and the MMA my son does get their punches from Western boxing.

Again, just my opinion. I used to box a little and was pretty impressed with the agressiveness, speed and upper body power of even the average amateur boxer. I would round it out with some kicking and some ground fighting skills too though, if the intent is self-defense. There may be a MMA school nearby that combines all of the above.

[Tony Dismukes]

In responding to this question, I am considering the value of boxing training methods, not just boxing techniques. I say this because I was familiar with the basics of boxing techniques (jab, cross, parry, bob, weave, etc) for years, but didn't really experience the benefits until I started working on actual boxing training (focus mitt work, bag work, full-contact sparring, etc). That said, here's my opinion:

Strengths of boxing training:
You'll learn to punch harder than you would in just about any other martial art (for an equivalent amount of training). You'll learn to punch efficiently, in combinations. You'll learn how to make good use of "broken rhythm". You'll learn efficient defence against punches. You'll develop good footwork. You'll develop the mental and physical conditionaing to take hard shots and keep going. You'll develop some control over the adrenaline dump that comes with a fight.

Weaknesses of boxing training:
No coverage of grappling situations or the use of/defense against weapons. The focus on hard punching with the fist to the head can lead to a broken hand in a street situation (without gloves). The focus on using the environment of the ring may be less useful in a different environment (crowded bar, icey sidewalk). The focus of the training may lead to a "contest mentality", i.e. thinking of the fight as one-on-one, voluntary, with both parties prepared. Real self-defence is preferably a matter of looking to avoid a confrontation, while being on the lookout for surprise attacks, and being ready to seize any unfair advantage for oneself if a confrontation is unavoidable. The contest mentality may not be ideal in a self-defence situation.

I think boxing training is an important aspect of martial arts training, but it's not complete by itself.

[Mike S]

Well said Tony, and I agree. It definately provides you with different alternatives compared to your standard MAs. Also, as you said, its not the end all-be all of fighting, as it does have its weak spots.

While I do not study boxing as in depth as I do my other arts, I do take the concepts and ideas and add them to what I'm already doing. I've already noticed an improvement in my other arts.

Mike Slosek

[Flame Element]

I'm going to guess you mean regular boxing. Don't take my opinion as anything close to expert, but boxing really isn't, in my opinion, nearly as good as another art, such as Jeet Kune Do. It's missing kicks and grapples. Holds, flips, all of that. Kickboxing is still just fist strikes and kicks. Boxing may start out just as good as most martial arts, but you will quickly see that they differ in effectiveness, the martial art being the more effective of the two. The first thing you learn in many martial arts is kicks and a strike combination, which is what I learned from my first lesson. :bow:

[Cliff Hargrave]

I think all martial artists should do some boxing just to get the feel of it. The punching combos are unique and the footwork and upper body movement is better than alot of stuff out there.

As a stand alone art for self defense, sure it lacks alot of stuff, but so do almost all martial arts. They all lack something.

Boxing plus a grappling art makes a devestating combo.

[_Xi]

I think all martial artists should do some boxing just to get the feel of it. The punching combos are unique and the footwork and upper body movement is better than alot of stuff out there.

As a stand alone art for self defense, sure it lacks alot of stuff, but so do almost all martial arts. They all lack something.

Boxing plus a grappling art makes a devestating combo.


And muay thai, thats why vitor belfor (The phenom) Is so effective. He's BJJ, Boxing, and has some muay thai skills.

[Bad Karma]

I would pass on boxing if Muay Thai was available. You put that and some grappling together...good stuff. The workouts alone will give you a competitor's edge.

Peace

[_Xi]

If any of you want to see some muay thai skills that me and tony are talkin about, download the Marvin Eastman vs. Vitor Belfort UFC 43. Look at the gash ontop of his eyebrow. Killer.

[DungeonWorks]

I'm going to guess you mean regular boxing. Don't take my opinion as anything close to expert, but boxing really isn't, in my opinion, nearly as good as another art, such as Jeet Kune Do. It's missing kicks and grapples. Holds, flips, all of that. Kickboxing is still just fist strikes and kicks. Boxing may start out just as good as most martial arts, but you will quickly see that they differ in effectiveness, the martial art being the more effective of the two. The first thing you learn in many martial arts is kicks and a strike combination, which is what I learned from my first lesson. :bow:


I have to disagree. On every kickboxing (American style...kicks above the waste, no leg kicks...ect) card I have done or seen, there was always at least one boxer vs kickboxer matchup. In every case, the boxer won convincingly. Be it the brutal punching power or the incredible inside game these guys brought to the table. Most of the kickboxers I have seen fight boxers, they are lost inside. This is not meant to incite anything, just my observations. In my last fight I did, I fought an experienced boxer and got my butt kicked pretty good! LOL He had 60 pounds on me, but that was not what beat me, it was his inside game. With that said, prior to that fight, I preffered inside range. This guy hit like a freaking mack truck!!! After our bout, I sat down and talked to him about it. He said he could not see my kicks, and that they were taking a good toll on him, and ironically, I only saw about 50% of his inside punches, and unfortunately they were the 50% that kicked my buttox! :eek: :laugh: One the other hand, I fought another experienced boxer in my first fight. I knocked him out with a roundhouse kick to the face, that he never saw. He clinched a lot inside and wanted to fight me at a medium range.

My point to all of this is that if is 110% dependant on three factors, in my opinion:

1) His dedication and experience
2) The dedication to training (if any) of his adversary as well as his experience
3) Just plain luck.

ANY trained fighter can beat or be beaten, regardless of style, training, athleticism...ect. I have seen some unlikely victors in barfights as well as the ring. The old football saying that "On any given Sunday...." holds true for fighting as well. Our training can only prepare us to handle a situation on the street, and is NEVER a guarantee of victory.

Just my $.02

PS

I did pretty well fighting the neighborhood kids with boxing skills (not training), and limited wrestling in high school. Kept me safe in the bars as well. I didn't win everytime, but like I said, I am still in one piece.

[Mikey Triangles]

Here's a reply someone gave to this question on another forum. I think it summed everything up pretty good:

It's a very practical method of self defence. There is no good and bad system. You and your teacher make an art good or bad.

Boxing -pros and cons for t3h str33t.

Pros :1) You learn the stronger faster and yet simpler method of punching (nuff said).2) A lot of conditioning is going on meaning you will get stronger , you will have good stamina. 3)If you're in a street fight you'll probably notice your legs will get kind of num (thats the adrenaline kicking in) and you will be more comfortable using your hands so boxing has an advatage to other arts that concertrate more on kicking when it comes to street fighting. (but the adrenaline effect isn't the same for everyone) 4)Sparring is going on so you will get comfortable with people trying to hit you and trading punches

Cons.1) The limited rules. You will only learn to punch and thats it. No elbow strikes , no knees , no kicks, no grappling, no takedowns, no clinching. 2)You will be more comfortable fighting with the gloves than your hands but you can work it out. 3)No "self defence" training - like how to avoid a fight , fighting multiple opponents , no weapons training. 4)weight divisions , thats not a bad thing if you're heavy but boxing doesn't have the small guy kicking *** approatch other MA's do. To sum it up the heavier you are the more affective boxing will be.

In general i think that a good boxer is very capable of defending himself anywhere.



Ofcourse there is a lot I could add to that, but the reason I cut and pasted it in the first place is because I'm feeling lazy :p

[Mike S]

Cons.1) The limited rules. You will only learn to punch and thats it.
In general i think that a good boxer is very capable of defending himself anywhere.

Actually, doesn't it teach you how to bite also?? :D

Sorry..couldn't resist!! :laugh:

Mike Slosek

[Spartan]

..... 4)weight divisions , thats not a bad thing if you're heavy but boxing doesn't have the small guy kicking *** approatch other MA's do. To sum it up the heavier you are the more affective boxing will be. ...Back in the days of bareknuckle boxing, guys often beat up opponents who outweighted them by 20-40 lbs.

[Chrono]

I'd also add that boxers do a lot of physical training. I'd even go as far to say that they are more physically fit than perhaps most martial artists.

[nythius]

I'd have to rank a TKD practitioner up there with some of the most physically fit martial artists our there. The cardio impact of a reverse punch versus a jumping roundhouse is slightly different. That being said I'd have to say a Boxer would still lay out most TKDers in under 2 minutes....Boxing is probably one of the most effective self defence systems around. Why? Because it's simple and tothe point. Granted there are intricacies upon intricacies at a professional level, but the fact is that it's a very focused system and as such one gains a higher level of proficiency more quickly

[DungeonWorks]

Let's not forget the effectiveness and elusiveness that boxing defense has to offer as well. The footwork, blocking, perrying, bobbing, weaving, feinting..ect