Core system of Hapkido

[American HKD]

Greetings,

I writting this in hopes a few more people are educated about Hapkido.

First and foremost everyone must understand Hapkido does indeed have a core curriculum and set of techniques that sets the standards of the sytem.
Just like any system with Kata we have absolute requirements.

It's true that this core is taught differently from school to school and many variations exsist but this is part of the HKD.

The uneducated simply see these variations from teacher to teacher as a free for all in the system and they persive and open house anything goes attitude. This is a gross mis-understanding about of HKD and way out of context as any true HKD Master knows.

Again HKD does have many paths to reach the same goal but WITH-IN A REAL FRAMWORK! This framework doesn't include techniques from BJJ, Wing Chun, Filipino MA, or Tai Chi.

Mixed MA is a open enviornment which one can developement from many sources but this is not what HKD is all about!

A seasoned HKD player knows that he's well suited to defend himself in all areas of self defense due the complex and complete HKD curriculum.
However a Hapkoin may not be suited to compete in the the UFC or out grapple Rickson Gracie but that's not the goal of HKD.

It's up to the truely educated Hapkido Instructors to pass on our system in an intact manor to the next generation and educated student in what HKD is and isn't.

[Paul B]

Hi Stuart,

No disrespect intended,but is this meant as an observation or as a question? I'm just trying to understand if you're simply putting a statement out there,or asking someone's opinion on the matter.

[American HKD]

Hi Stuart,

No disrespect intended,but is this meant as an observation or as a question? I'm just trying to understand if you're simply putting a statement out there,or asking someone's opinion on the matter.


Hi Paul

I'm not stating an Opinion, but stating a fact about HKD.

If people want to disscuss my statement, or clarify what I mean, or clear up mis-conceptions thats my goal.

[sidekick]

I'll step up to the plate and start the ball rolling. First though a **Disclaimer**. It is not my intent to start a mine is better than yours tennis match or a monster slug fest on technique values or lack there off.

First and foremost everyone must understand Hapkido does indeed have a core curriculum and set of techniques that sets the standards of the sytem.
Just like any system with Kata we have absolute requirements.

Question: What do you consider the "Core curriculum and Set of techniques"?

It's true that this core is taught differently from school to school and many variations exsist but this is part of the HKD.

Question(s): Why is it taught differently and why are there variations?

Again HKD does have many paths to reach the same goal but WITH-IN A REAL FRAMWORK! This framework doesn't include techniques from BJJ, Wing Chun, Filipino MA, or Tai Chi.

Question: Then WHY teach/include other aspects of different arts/disciplines?

Mixed MA is a open enviornment which one can developement from many sources but this is not what HKD is all about!

Question: See above question. Secondary question; Do you feel that Ji does or does not fall into this category? (Didn't he add to what Choi taught him?)

A seasoned HKD player knows that he's well suited to defend himself in all areas of self defense.

Agree.........

However a Hapkoin may not be suited to compete in the the UFC or out grapple Rickson Gracie but that's not the goal of HKD.

Agree........

It's up to the truely educated Hapkido Instructors to pass on our system in an intact manor to the next generation and educated student in what HKD is and isn't.

That is the millon dollar question and hopefully what were trying to disseminate.

Respectfully
Mike Dunn

[Paul B]

Just like any system with Kata we have absolute requirements.

I think if you're talking absolutes,they only apply to *your* style/kwan. I am sure your absolute requirements will differ from say...JungKiKwan's,or Hapkiyusool. If your curriculum is in a set way that has nothing to do with how others set their curriculum. The important part is *it's in there* somewhere. I will say it's usually along the same lines of progression,though.


snip...variations exsist but this is part of the HKD.snip....

Reason again to be reluctant to use absolutes.


Again HKD does have many paths to reach the same goal but WITH-IN A REAL FRAMWORK! This framework doesn't include techniques from BJJ, Wing Chun, Filipino MA, or Tai Chi.

Agreed,but whose to say what that framework is? And in whose approval is that framework valid? If you're talking about progression of movement(looking like Hapkido) that would be readily apparent to the observer if one knows what they are looking at or for.


A seasoned HKD player knows that he's well suited to defend himself in all areas of self defense due the complex and complete HKD curriculum.

This is a good one,Stuart! How many times have you been approached by someone(usually a newbie) who knew that you also study JJJ and want to learn some? Why? My short answer...I'd like to think that with time and by paying attention, the "principles" will equip us with the means to adapt to any motion,and "unseasoned" Hapkido-in have some some growing to do in the meantime and they may feel the need for addressing their concerns,no?


It's up to the truely educated Hapkido Instructors to pass on our system in an intact manor to the next generation and educated student in what HKD is and isn't.

I think it's up to Hapkido practitioners of each and every Kwan to be truthful about what they do and where said curriculum comes from.

[American HKD]

.

I think if you're talking absolutes,they only apply to *your* style/kwan. I am sure your absolute requirements will differ from say...JungKiKwan's,or Hapkiyusool. If your curriculum is in a set way that has nothing to do with how others set their curriculum. The important part is *it's in there* somewhere. I will say it's usually along the same lines of progression,though.



Reason again to be reluctant to use absolutes.



Agreed,but whose to say what that framework is? And in whose approval is that framework valid? If you're talking about progression of movement(looking like Hapkido) that would be readily apparent to the observer if one knows what they are looking at or for.



This is a good one,Stuart! How many times have you been approached by someone(usually a newbie) who knew that you also study JJJ and want to learn some? Why? My short answer...I'd like to think that with time and by paying attention, the "principles" will equip us with the means to adapt to any motion,and "unseasoned" Hapkido-in have some some growing to do in the meantime and they may feel the need for addressing their concerns,no?



I think it's up to Hapkido practitioners of each and every Kwan to be truthful about what they do and where said curriculum comes from.


Greeting's

Ok let me clarify a bit, from Ji's lineage there is a framework

Each kwan is only like saying "Joe's Hapkido School" if thier from Ji's line operate within that framework. True they each have thier own way of going about it which adds to the misunderstanding as I mentioned already, but it's alway within the overall framework.

To name a few names here in the USA that do work with-in the framework is:

Hwang Sik Myung
He young Kim
Hal Whalen
Ji Han Jae
Kim Jin Pal
Fabian Dugue
My Master
My self
Chong Min lee
many others as well

In Korea:
KHA kwans
KHF kwans

Jung Ki Kwan has thier own framework, they can respond about that separately, but they all come from Master Lim so I would assume they all do the same thing with-in that framework of Choi.

What I'm trying to show is HKD is a system with specific boundries and not a MMA where every kwan/school throws anything into the mix, that would not be HKD but a MMA of sorts.

It seems that some people try very hard to resist the fact that Korean Hapkido is a system with actual framework-core-curiculum or anyway you wish to say it.

[Paul B]

So let's clarify what you consider to be a specific framework. Curriculum? Principles? etc....?

Just wondering. :)

[American HKD]

So let's clarify what you consider to be a specific framework. Curriculum? Principles? etc....?

Just wondering. :)

Greetings,

I figured this would be the next logical step. Our lineage goes something like this although I will keep this as short as possible.

There are also specific techiques to each catagory listed that make up the hapkido techniques as passed on from Choi to Ji as well as many kicks that come directly from Ji.

BJJ, Aikido, Wing Chun techniques for example are not part of this tradition.

Basics tech.
strike, kicks, escapes, throws, locks, blocks, Danjun breathing,
3 principles

wrists grabs defense
cross grabs
clothes grabs front
" " rear
mid level wrist grabs
Combos kicks
bear hugs front
" " rear
Punch defense
Jump kicks
Kick defense
Throw defense
Advanced wrist grabs
knike defense

2nd Dan

sit down defense
laydown defense
attack tech
black belt wrist grabs
choke defense
Short stick

Some schools vary in what catagory is taught at what belt, but this is a very standard outline.

Important point:
You must be doing the techniques passed on from Choi to Ji, or Choi to Lim, or Choi to ?, to be doing real Hapkido and operating in the HKD framework.

Any thing else is some sort of MMA to one degree or another regardless of what you name it.

[Gae-Bek]

Any thing else is some sort of MMA to one degree or another regardless of what you name it.

Not that you or anyone else in this forum really cares, but I thought I'd point out that taking one art and mixing it with another does not make it MMA. MMA is its own animal, and to assume that it's simply the joining of any multiple arts, is to have no more educated of an opinion, than you complain about others having toward Hapkido.

[Mst Whalen]

These are the requirements i use 7th Gueb
Demonstration 103 techniques 6-7 months

22 hand strikes
12 kicks
8 basic blocks
10 Defense against punches with counter strikes
10 defense against punches with kicks
10 same side break aways
10 cross wrist break aways
10 kicks against wrist grabs

The requirement for 6th Gueb
Demonstration 53 techniques 3 months minimum from last test

9 additional kicks
10 throws against wrist grab
18 basic joint locks against wrist grab
14 basic cross wrist grabs with joint-locks

The requirements for 5th gueb 3 months minimum form 6th gueb
demonstration 60 techniques

20 more kicks
35 defenses against clothing grabs multiple areas
5 defenses against hair grabs

The requirements for 4th Gueb 3 month s minimum from 5th gueb
Demonstration 70 techniques

20 double kicks
20 defense against punches with throws and joint-locks
10 handshake defense
5 defense against rear wrist grabs
15 intermediate level defense against clothing grabs

The requirements for 3rd gueb 3 months minimum from 4th gueb
Demonstration of 72 techniques

20 hopping or sliding kicks
17 Defense against clothing grabs from rear
15 intermediate wrist breaks
20 Defenses against body grabs from rear

The requirements for 2nd gueb 3 months minimum since 3 gueb
Demonstration of 75 techniques

20 jump double kicks
20 Defense against front body grabs
25 Defenses against Kicks
10 defense against two hands grabbing two wrists

The requirements for 1st gueb 3 months minimum since 2nd gueb
Demonstration 59 Techniques

12 Flying kicks
10 two hands grabbing one wrist
12 advanced wrist breaks
10 from the side wrist grabs
3 defense from underside wrist grab to the chest

The requirements for 1st Dan minimum 6 months since 1st gueb test
17 special kicks
36 knife defense
15 offensive techniques
10 choking techniques

For first dan test and every test you have to demonstrate all of the previous techniques as seemed necessary by the testing board Certain kicks are eliminated Do to age or physical limitations

The requirements for 2nd Dan minimum 1 since 1st dan
Demonstration of 133 techniques

20 Black Belt Level against clothing grabs
20 " " " against wrist grabs
15 " " " against punches
21 " " " against kicks
8 special kicks
11 seated defense
11 lying on back
20 combination joint locks


The requirements for 3rd Dan 2 year since 2nd dan
Demonstration of 150 techniques

16 defense against pistol
30 defense against joint locks/ counter joint locks
short stick technique
20 technique against punch
20 techniques against kick
20 against clothing/ body grabs
20 escorting/ arresting technique
20 long pole technique

The requirements for 4th Dan Master minimum 3 years since 3 Dan
Demonstration of 125 techniques

20 Cane technique against kick
20 Cane technique against punch
20 cane technique against grabs
15 sword offensive sword attack
15 defensive sword
15 defense two people grabbing wrist
15 defense two people grabbing multiple areas of body not just wrist.

These are the requirements of our Dojang all were taught by my Masters in Korea and many that i learned for Choi,Han Young whom i trained with while stationed in texas . I also have not included Tan jon breathing , it is done every class Also falling techniques this is a given.


I also did not mention pressure points for attack or healing and body alignment for chiropractic purpose since it would cause legal problems.

I am not trying to be boastful you can contact Mike T this is what he tested with and then some Also note THESE ARE MY MINIMUMS , Can it be done ? Ask any of the 55 Black Belts we have produced in my brief 27 year teaching career. My dojang takes about three years for !St. dan .

I have Also trained under three different Hapkido Kwans The core curriculum is Chundokwan From Master Yu.Chun He . BY what I read today he would be considered a Jr. Since he only uses the title Master Yu, and he only holds an eighth dan. With a mere 47 years in Hapkido his dojang Has been in existence for 36 years.

I hope this helps in some way I have also named all of the techniques up to 2nd Dan

[American HKD]

Not that you or anyone else in this forum really cares, but I thought I'd point out that taking one art and mixing it with another does not make it MMA. MMA is its own animal, and to assume that it's simply the joining of any multiple arts, is to have no more educated of an opinion, than you complain about others having toward Hapkido.


Greetings

This is a good topic for another thread.

What then is a MMA?

If it's teaching each Art or System to it's fullest by a qualified Instr. then I thinks it's great!

If it's surgically removing a peice of this and that to form a new style of Hapkido let's say I would be against it.

[American HKD]

These are the requirements i use 7th Gueb
Demonstration 103 techniques 6-7 months

22 hand strikes
12 kicks
8 basic blocks
10 Defense against punches with counter strikes
10 defense against punches with kicks
10 same side break aways
10 cross wrist break aways
10 kicks against wrist grabs

The requirement for 6th Gueb
Demonstration 53 techniques 3 months minimum from last test

9 additional kicks
10 throws against wrist grab
18 basic joint locks against wrist grab
14 basic cross wrist grabs with joint-locks

The requirements for 5th gueb 3 months minimum form 6th gueb
demonstration 60 techniques

20 more kicks
35 defenses against clothing grabs multiple areas
5 defenses against hair grabs

The requirements for 4th Gueb 3 month s minimum from 5th gueb
Demonstration 70 techniques

20 double kicks
20 defense against punches with throws and joint-locks
10 handshake defense
5 defense against rear wrist grabs
15 intermediate level defense against clothing grabs

The requirements for 3rd gueb 3 months minimum from 4th gueb
Demonstration of 72 techniques

20 hopping or sliding kicks
17 Defense against clothing grabs from rear
15 intermediate wrist breaks
20 Defenses against body grabs from rear

The requirements for 2nd gueb 3 months minimum since 3 gueb
Demonstration of 75 techniques

20 jump double kicks
20 Defense against front body grabs
25 Defenses against Kicks
10 defense against two hands grabbing two wrists

The requirements for 1st gueb 3 months minimum since 2nd gueb
Demonstration 59 Techniques

12 Flying kicks
10 two hands grabbing one wrist
12 advanced wrist breaks
10 from the side wrist grabs
3 defense from underside wrist grab to the chest

The requirements for 1st Dan minimum 6 months since 1st gueb test
17 special kicks
36 knife defense
15 offensive techniques
10 choking techniques

For first dan test and every test you have to demonstrate all of the previous techniques as seemed necessary by the testing board Certain kicks are eliminated Do to age or physical limitations

The requirements for 2nd Dan minimum 1 since 1st dan
Demonstration of 133 techniques

20 Black Belt Level against clothing grabs
20 " " " against wrist grabs
15 " " " against punches
21 " " " against kicks
8 special kicks
11 seated defense
11 lying on back
20 combination joint locks


The requirements for 3rd Dan 2 year since 2nd dan
Demonstration of 150 techniques

16 defense against pistol
30 defense against joint locks/ counter joint locks
short stick technique
20 technique against punch
20 techniques against kick
20 against clothing/ body grabs
20 escorting/ arresting technique
20 long pole technique

The requirements for 4th Dan Master minimum 3 years since 3 Dan
Demonstration of 125 techniques

20 Cane technique against kick
20 Cane technique against punch
20 cane technique against grabs
15 sword offensive sword attack
15 defensive sword
15 defense two people grabbing wrist
15 defense two people grabbing multiple areas of body not just wrist.

These are the requirements of our Dojang all were taught by my Masters in Korea and many that i learned for Choi,Han Young whom i trained with while stationed in texas . I also have not included Tan jon breathing , it is done every class Also falling techniques this is a given.


I also did not mention pressure points for attack or healing and body alignment for chiropractic purpose since it would cause legal problems.

I am not trying to be boastful you can contact Mike T this is what he tested with and then some Also note THESE ARE MY MINIMUMS , Can it be done ? Ask any of the 55 Black Belts we have produced in my brief 27 year teaching career. My dojang takes about three years for !St. dan .

I have Also trained under three different Hapkido Kwans The core curriculum is Chundokwan From Master Yu.Chun He . BY what I read today he would be considered a Jr. Since he only uses the title Master Yu, and he only holds an eighth dan. With a mere 47 years in Hapkido his dojang Has been in existence for 36 years.

I hope this helps in some way I have also named all of the techniques up to 2nd Dan

Thanks Hal,

I didn't feel like typing so much!

[Dennis Monk]

This is a good topic for another thread. What then is a MMA? If it's teaching each Art or System to it's fullest by a qualified Instr. then I thinks it's great!
If you are looking for the answer to what MMA is, Andrew Green wrote an excellent essay concerning just this question.
Here is the link below:
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7982

[American HKD]

If you are looking for the answer to what MMA is, Andrew Green wrote an excellent essay concerning just this question.
Here is the link below:
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7982


Greeting,

Very good explaination, it also shows what I've been trying to get people to understand, HAPKIDO's NOT A MIXED MA or even an eclectic system, but a defined system regardless of the fact the each school has options of how to teach it.

MMA shares some similarities to traditional arts in that they strive for personal growth, but they do not defined themselfves by the borders of a traditional systems belts, set techniques, etc.

To some up the article ideas, someone who creates a New System with a different set of new boundrys is also not a MMA but a new system with redefined boundries. Interesting! :bow:

Back to my topic.

Redefining Hapkido into somethings it's not (bringing in various outside sources) makes it no longer Hapkido.

John Pellegrini calls CH an eclectic system based on HKD, and admits is not the Traditional system. All that is great until you use the name Hapkido to define your system bountries because then it either is Hapkido or it's not.

[Mst Whalen]

Thanks Hal,

I didn't feel like typing so much!

I need to go back to work Jerry Springer is getting to me . I have watched Hapkido DVD's so many times the image is burned into my TV screen

Just kidding.........