Previous dancer needs help!?

[littlecelt]

I'm sure there are a few smirks and laughs, all well deserved. ;) Yes, over the last few months, my feet have attempted to revert to those basic ballet and modern dance positions they learned over so many years. The ending result of course, being me all tangled up, or completely off balance, either way reinforcing my sensei's simple reminder that "it just takes practice". I'm beginning to understand those who track repetitions of each combination, kata, etc.

Any suggestions for breaking old dancer's habits? Or maybe things to really be on the lookout for as I progress to the next levels? Would love your thoughts.

[jwinch2]

Good question Kim,

I have looked at these types of things quite a bit in my coaching with trying to change techniques for various lifts or sport skills ect. That being said, I am NOT a motor learning expert so I did the next best thing. I posed this question to a fellow Ph.D. student who is a close friend of mine who also happens to be researching in practise and feedback theory under the discipline of motor learning and control.

This was his recommendation:

First - Add some visual feedback to your training. Meaning if you can video yourself performing the techniques you are having problems with, it will be much more effective that just getting verbal feedback from your sensei. There are ample data to suggest that adding visual feedback will dramatically improve your performance and decrease learning time (Magill et al., 1980, 1982, 1985, 1990, & 2000).

Secondly - You need to progress the timing of your feedback.
* in the first stage, feedback should occur after every repetition both verbally and visually. This should go on until you are STARTING to get it.
* After getting through the first stage you should block the feedback. Try doing 5 - 10 repetitions of the skill then get verbal feedback from your sensei and watch the video of ALL the repetitions. This should continue until you a moderately skilled performer. By this time you should start to get an idea of how a technique FEELS while you are doing it but don't start to rely on that yet.
* The third stage is random feedback. Feedback should be given at random occasions which should vary greatly. Have your sensei randomly stop you for feedback and to watch the video. This is the occasion where you can start using your kinesthasia (how it feels) to critique yourself.

I have used something similar to this with my Olympic style weightlifters to improve their technique and also with collegiate sprinters to work on their starts and it has given me very solid results.

If you follow that progression, that should help alot!

Take care,

Jason

[littlecelt]

Jason! Are you sure you weren't in the back of my class last night? One of my instructors was threatening that exact thing. It's a technique I see used more for arnis though and I see that it works there. It does make sense and I follow the logic, can't deny it.

I'm also realizing that just as I'm having to re-learn or learn new ways of moving, those who learn new 'styles' must also go through the same process and am humbled. At first I was wondering if these were unique issues to the transition of dance/ma - now I'm thinking it's pretty much anything that had muscle memory as part of the activity.

Thanks for the suggestions.

A link a friend sent me... (me off balance). I think it might have come from here.
:laugh:
http://judoinfo.com/images/video/other/whyjudoisbetterthankarate.mpg

[jwinch2]

Jason! Are you sure you weren't in the back of my class last night? One of my instructors was threatening that exact thing. It's a technique I see used more for arnis though and I see that it works there. It does make sense and I follow the logic, can't deny it.


Kim,

That's the nice thing about this type of thing. The principles work well for whatever type of skill it is.

To quote a little pointy eared guy in a galaxy far, far away... "you must unlearn what you have learned...". That's scientist humor. Sad right?

The simple truth of this type of skill aquisition is that muscles do not have memory. No matter whether you subsribe to the "motor programming" paradigm or the "dynamical systems" paradigm of motor learning, the data is clear. Having visual feedback in the initial stages of learning a skill drastically improves the learning curve...

I'm quoting Yoda now? Damn, I need some sleep...

Good luck!

Jason

[littlecelt]

ok - must give a quick update...
While I'm still shying away from the video - gee I wonder why? :rolleyes:
I've had the opportunity to use a couple other techniques:
1. The tape on the floor to mark the spot
2. Once you get the basic motions, facing all corners in the room so you're not dependent on a specific 'place' and...
3. The dedicated attention of a willing and patient BB to work with me.
But... by the end of the night, those scratches in my notebook really made sense.

Now, let's see, that camera was in which bag?? :p

[jwinch2]

Hey Kim,

Glad to hear that things are starting to turn around. Don't shy away from the video. The camera is your friend... At least when trying to learn something!

Take care,

Jason

[swdw]

Kim,

One of the biggest problems I've seen dancers have is where they place the weight on their feet.

Since you are trained to do everything on the balls of your feet, the tendency is to do so in the MA. What makes this worse is that most pivoting in MA is done on the balls of the feet, but the weight isn't shifted like it is for dancing. You need to lift your heels without raising the rest of your body.

The dancers I worked with had to work on getting the weight where it's supposed to be. Approximately the center of each foot from front to back(even though the arch doesn't contact the ground unless you have flat feet, this keeps the weight distributed correctly).

Once this issue was worked out, it made all of the other adjustments come much easier (not moving your shoulders before your hips, etc)

Good luck. The good part is, once you are used to the differences, dancers usually progress faster :D

[littlecelt]

Folks still laugh when the sensei has us lined up and we go to do our kicks, especially an instep to the chin. It's just such a classic move! I do love the katas though and we have a couple of forms competitors in our school. Seeing the beauty in the technique makes me want to get it right. I'm beginning to understand what you mean about the weight distribution. It's very different and not just because of a 'stance'. Thanks, any more advice, please let me know.