Opinions on Atkins or related low carb diets

[charvel pointy]

I've tried it off and on for a couple years. Problem is it just plain sucks. I get so sick of eating low carb, by sick I mean bored. I'm a type 2 diabetic and if I can stick to it, it does wonders for that. I'm talking 1500 calorie meals and blood sugars within normal range. It seems hit or miss as to weight loss. none really until about the 2nd week of the induction diet for me. I tend to eat low carb anyway out of habit at this point, but man about a week goes by and I've gotta eat some spaghetti. My Doctor approves of it, puts lots of his diabetics on it. Any thoughts?

[Dennis Monk]

The first time I did Atkins I lost over 70 pounds. Worked for me.

[Rasputin]

Anecdotal Evidence does not good science make, but I feel compelled to add my "Me Too" to the mix. I went from 275 to 212 on Atkins while lifting weights, riding the stationary bike, and doing jujutsu 3x a week in about 9 months. Unfortunately, the weight seems to come right back if you go off the diet, even if you are not going nuts calorie-wise. I will be going back on it again in the next few weeks until I get back down below 220, because no other diet plan allows you to lose weight so quickly with virtually no hunger pangs.

It'll do until they come up with the perfect diet pill which ramps up the metabolism, adds lean muscle mass, lowers LDL cholesterol, and is not addictive.

Woot.

[Akuma]

Well, I think you need to do what works for you...however, you know that from a medical stand point I think this diet is very unhealthy. My advice to you is to simply watch your calories (use Fitday.com), increase your cardio and continue your tkd training. Not only will you lose weight...but it is something you can continue to do the rest of your life. Just my opinion, however ;) peace

[jwinch2]

Atkins is bad for you and very dangerous and there are a mountain of data to back that up.

We discussed this at some length on another thread a while back. For the sake of saving you time in searching for the link, I will copy much of what I wrote earlier and post it at the end of this particular post.

Suffice it to say, if you like the idea of massive increases in amonia levels, decrease in kidney and liver function, a huge increase in the liklihood of developing colon cancer, and having your weight bouce around like a yoyo while you actually increase body fat over the long term, then by all means do Atkins.

The bottom line for weight loss is this. Eat less calories than you burn.


Posted on earlier thread:

Here are the major problems with Atkins and other low carb type diets.

1) Health
-When Protein is digested a Nitrogen is broken off of the molecule. This causes an increase in amonia levels in the blood and urine (This is what makes your urine yellow). High amounts of amonia in the blood and urine have been strongly linked to increases in rates of colon cancer and kidney failure.
- A lack of availible glucose also can cause a change in the metabolic set point. This is the point at which your body tries to maintain at rest. When this set point is lowered you now need less calories to get by on a daily basis and it is much easier for you to gain excess fat than it was previously.
- A high protein diet is most often associated with a high fat diet. For problems with that see the above statement. As well as recognizing the high amounts of cholesterol that come with higher fat intakes.

2) Performance
- Use of protein for energy takes longer than use of glucose which we get from carbs. This causes us two problems. 1- we cannot work out or train as hard. 2 - We cannot train as long.
-In addition, use of protein for energy can cause the body to develop an affinity for doing so. If you get off of the diet and lower the amount of protein that you take in, your body will consume muscle to make up for that decrease.
- Use of protein for energy requires greater fluid intake to maintain function. This makes it much easier for us to get dehydrated than on a more balanced diet.


These are only a few of the reasons that Atkins is the wrong way to go. People get on it because it does give someone quick results but over the long haul, it will not work (you will yo yo like crazy), and it can be very dangerous for your health. Most people that get on atkins stay on it for a while and then lose it for a while before trying it again. What happens in these cases in a classic yo yo effect. Meaning when you lose the initial weight, you lose some fat, some protein/muscle, and some bone density. When you gain it back after you get off the diet, you generally gain fat only. Over time this causes a hugh increase in body fat % even though your body weight may return to it's previous level.

Any of you who do not buy this I encourage you to take some time and read research performed on this by independent groups who are not being paid by the Atkins company and see what they say.

[Dennis Monk]

So what you are saying is that eating lean meats and vegetables while staying away from processed starches and sugars is actually bad for you.
Sorry, I'll take the risk.

[Martin]

But not all carbs are junk, Dennis.

Wheat breads, beans, fruits, etc.

[jakmak52]

Well, I think you need to do what works for you...however, you know that from a medical stand point I think this diet is very unhealthy. My advice to you is to simply watch your calories (use Fitday.com), increase your cardio and continue your tkd training. Not only will you lose weight...but it is something you can continue to do the rest of your life. Just my opinion, however ;) peace

That's the best advice I've heard so far :D

[jwinch2]

So what you are saying is that eating lean meats and vegetables while staying away from processed starches and sugars is actually bad for you.
Sorry, I'll take the risk.


There are plenty of ways to get good carbs in your body without dealing with processed foods. I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly on that and try to avoid them when possible myself. And, as far as the LEAN meats and veggies thing, I believe that you are definately on the right track there.

I think the thing to think about here is that most nutrients, carbs, sodium, and fat included are not bad for you. It's the specific type and how much them you eat that becomes the issue over the long term. For example, sodium is widely reported as a contributer to hypertension and for many people that is true. However, a significant portion of the population has the tendency to develop hypertension when the amount of sodium in the diet is DECREASED. Lesson, nothing is true 100% of the time and individual differences will always exist.

As for the rest, you are a big boy and can certainly make up your own mind. I am not trying to preach at you or tell you what to do. My job is to develop and disseminate new information. I just wanted to share the possible risks associated with a diet like Atkins so that people can make their own informed decision as to whether or not they want to try it. What you do from there is of course, your decision.

Later Dennis!

Jason

[jwinch2]

That's the best advice I've heard so far :D

I agree James!

[Cliff Hargrave]

I think the biggest problem with low carb diets is people that do not understand them and stay on the induction phase the entire time pigging out on bacon, eggs and cheese.

I can't stay on a low carb diet, it drives me crazy. I prefer the Body for Life program and will recommend it to anyone. I don't have any training like Jason but from a personal standpoint I have had the best results and felt the best from Body for Life. You can do the program without buying Bill Phillips' overpriced supplements.

[jwinch2]

I think the biggest problem with low carb diets is people that do not understand them and stay on the induction phase the entire time pigging out on bacon, eggs and cheese.

I can't stay on a low carb diet, it drives me crazy. I prefer the Body for Life program and will recommend it to anyone. I don't have any training like Jason but from a personal standpoint I have had the best results and felt the best from Body for Life. You can do the program without buying Bill Phillips' overpriced supplements.

:laugh: I laugh because as I am reading this I just finished lifting and am drinking a myoplex shake.

Cliff you are right on being able to do the body for life nutrition plan without buying the suppliments from EAS. I like the supplements because it is easy to do rather than planning out what and when you are going to eat to get all of the calories and nutrients you need. But, like you said, it can be done and probably for much cheaper over the long haul.

[Jay Bell]

The Dangers of Long-Term Low-Carb Diets (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/23/jacques.html)

[charvel pointy]

All of these seem like equally valid points, however, like the one guy said, you don't stay on the radical induction diet, you switch to what is in effect, a balanced diet of meats, Vegetables and some whole grains. The goal is to stabilize blood sugar, preventing an insulin response. Also, I've spoken to endocrinologists and cardiologists and they agree for the most part that the massive decrease in Tryglycerides from lowcarb diets results in much better heart health. Tryglycerides are created from sugars and insulin. they are the building blocks of LDL cholesterol. I'd also like to agree about how wiped out you can get training on this kind of diet. What would be nice would be a nice balance of carbs that would be lowglycemic, not starches and stuff per examplo, but would fuel workouts and training sessions. Anyway, thanks for ya'lls input, keep it coming.

[TonyU]

Then doesn't it stand to reason that instead of a diet it should be more of a lifestyle change.
I know, easier said than done and coming from someone that can eat anything and looks like a beanpole.

[jakmak52]

Makes sense to me, Tony :D

[jwinch2]

Then doesn't it stand to reason that instead of a diet it should be more of a lifestyle change.
I know, easier said than done and coming from someone that can eat anything and looks like a beanpole.


Excellent point Tony. Real change in body composition that is healthy and actually involves losing FAT instead of just WEIGHT, comes down to reducing the amount of caloric intake and increasing energy use. In other words, eat less and exercise more.

[Dennis Monk]

Eat less, excercise more, and steer clear of sugars and unecessary starches. Exactly what I got out of the Atkins book. Like it has already been said, yes you can lose a ton of weight on Atkins by staying in induction and pigging out on high fat, low carb meals. Even the book says that is not healthy. By the time a person reaches their goal weight they are encouraged to eat eat moderate amounts of wheat and whole grain breads, low sugar fruits such as blueberries and even nuts and legumes.

As far as the yo-yo effect goes, and this is coming from a person speaking from more experience than most of you in this matter:
Those who cut weight by excersise, weight watchers, strict low calorie/low fat dieting, 2 gallon water per day dieting, etc., etc., etc., are going through no more or less of the yo-yo effect than those that do a low carb diet, gain weight back and go back on the diet again. For those of us not blessed with a great metabolism we have to decide what to choose. For me, I got so big that everytime I started to exercise, I hurt myself. First I lost alot of weight, then I got into an excersise program with karate. Now I am doing karate, BJJ and cardio training. Maybe some day I won't have to be concerned so much with my daily intake of fat this, carb that, but for now I have to. For me the low carb diet works. And as far as risks go, sure there are lots of them. My biggest one being so out of shape that I stroked out or had a heart attack in my mid thirties, which by the way in my family seems to be a right of passage. No thanks. I'll do what works for me.

[charvel pointy]

Dennis, I tend to agree w/ you. I don't have a drastic amount of weight to lose, maybe 20# or so, but as a diabetic, man the diet does wonders for blood sugar control. I have not needed diabetic meds in close to 2 years as a result of following a more low carb approach. My LDL is 98, my HDL is 65, my triglycerides, last check were 77. I'll take that. It is tought to stick to though.

[Harlan]

1. Are you drinking enough water...drink until you float.
2. Are you taking taking in enough supplements (potassium is very important to #1).
3. Are you really not cheating on the carbs? Exactly how many carbs do you take in per meal? Too many?
4. Calories are not something that really comes into play in the restricted phase, but assuming you are overweight, male and active it sounds like you are not taking in ENOUGH calories to feed your muscle. How much protein are you taking in? What diet are you following ('doctor diet'?).


I lost 50 lbs in 6 months by following a severely restricted carb intake and using the "Protein Power" book by Dr Eades. They discuss the connection between type 2 diabetes and carbs....so I highly recommend you buy it (best $7 I ever spent). Their idea is to calculate how much lean body mass you have, and make sure you nourish it with sufficient protein while restricting carbs to burn the fat. I went off it after obtaining my goal, and 2 years later I have not gained back the weight. Now, my blood work is great, I eat balanced meals.

Low carb worked for me.

[charvel pointy]

Help me to understand. Are you diabetic as well? what is said connection of carbs in a general rundown? Man, I'm telling ya, it really works. I've heard of the protein power thing, my buddy who turned me on to atkins, et al, read that book. he said something aobut how ;that book recommends drinking red wine as well. what do you know about that?

Oh, I knew about the water, my endocrinologist was all over that one. What supplements do you recommend? Any particular brand? Seems like they all make claims about absorption, etc, so much noise to weed thru. A straight out brand would be nice. Thansk by the wya.

[Harlan]

Sorry, I am not a diabetic. My husband, however is diabetic (so called, juvenile diabetes)...so I can understand your concerns. There is another book 'out there', written by a diabetic doctor who followed his own low carb plan and wrote about it. Sorry, don't know that name...do an Amazon search.

As for red wine...you are an adult. You know it is sugar. You can eat anything you want, anytime you want...you will pay if carbs are your problem and you peak your blood sugars.

Read the book. The doctors explain themselves well...and since your doctor is already supporting your efforts it might just tweak things in your favor.

You do not mention if you are still trying to lose weight, or if you are off of the insulin, or how intensely you want to follow a regimen. A diet for life can be at different levels for different folks.

If you are at the point you need to be, perhaps you simply need to invest your money and time in creating satifying, low carb meals?

[nosh276]

Info on Atkins:

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/riskfactors/a/Atkinsuhoh.htm
http://inch-aweigh.com/dangeratkins.html
http://www.carbs-information.com/health-problems-of-low-carb-diet-3.htm (check out the links at the bottom of this one)
http://www.leonardfitness.com/atkins_diet.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/57/66038.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/77/95324.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/29/1728_63032.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/92/101979.htm
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/50/40331.htm




If you want a real success stor, you should meet my good friend Alex. Ever since I met him (in preschool) he's been severly overweight. It's not that he wasn't active either. He played football, basketball and other sports. He couldn't lose the weight. Towards the end of his senior year in high school he decided to really put forth the effort into losing the weight. He's around 5'7 and weighed about 250/265. He began to drink only water--save the rare soft drink or smoothie--eat healthy food, he cut out sweets and fats, and he took up running and cycling, and he continued his weight training. About one year later he weighed around 145/160. That's a success story.

[Harlan]

Nice to be young. I would like to see your friend try the same thing at 45 or older, a hundred lbs heavier, on heart meds and with no more cartilage in his knees.

[Martin]

Everytime I hear older people talking about bad knees, I get scared out of my mind. I'm only 19 and my right knee already hurts like &!#& during squats and I'm just waiting for the left to go out next.

[nosh276]

Nice to be young. I would like to see your friend try the same thing at 45 or older, a hundred lbs heavier, on heart meds and with no more cartilage in his knees.

Yes, it's nice that neither him, nor me, nor even you are 45 or older.

Want another success story?

My mother is 4'10 a year ago she weighed 240. She did the weight wathcers diet. She ate healthy and walked every morning. That's all. She now weighs around 150. She has bad knees, scoliosis, and many other health problems. That didn't stop her and she is over 50.

[Harlan]

Thank you for sharing, and kudos to your mom! "You go, girl!"

And no, this old lady is just 44 next week. Boo hoo. But at least I am not fat.....



yes...


thanks to a low carb diet. :wink2: