Jujutsu (cherry blossom)

[miz_sammi_girl]

hello, can anyone tell me about the 'cherry blossom' style of jujutsu practised by the japanese samurai warrior? A club close by me is offering this 'style' of jujutsu and i would like some information if you can help me pleases, thanks mate. :)

[Mekugi]

I have never heard of it. I believe that it is a modern school.

[Jeff C.]

Russ, then it's a safe bet that it's NOT practiced by the Japanese samurai warrior? ;)

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Mekugi]

:D I believe that is correct, Sire.

Russ, then it's a safe bet that it's NOT practiced by the Japanese samurai warrior? ;)

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[David Craik]

Never heard of such a thing either.

[nicojo]

I have seen enough individual dojos called something like "Sakura Dojo" that it may be something like this you have found. Such dojos don't necessarily teach the same thing--it is the individual sensei's name for the place and it could be judo, ju jutsu or karate, etc. As far as old-school jujutsu in Brisbane, I don't know but this is the recommended link I hand out to people down under: Koryu in Oz (http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/1276/index.html). Shows some Japanese Sword Arts in Brisbane, but nothing else, though who knows? Someone may be new. I'd make use of the contact page, there are some good groups in Sydney and elsewhere that have a study group. And check the dojo to see why it is Cherry Blossom! If it is just the dojo name, then the usual dojo-evaluating skills kick in. If it is purporting to be koryu, the collective wisdom here at least says nope.

Best of luck,

[nicojo]

Ooh I know! Sakura no hana-jutsu is the deadly art practiced by well-heeled samurai women to overpower their enemies with luscious perfume! Waza includes dealing with both spray and blotter weapons, hiden techniques focus on demure yet sexy low-lidded glances behind a tessen made of iron. Latter day cognates of this art make use of shoppingu-waza (mainline dojo is in Shinjuku) and male-gaijin-trapping (extra-curricular study in Uo-machi).

:laugh: Ah well...

[Aaron T Fields]

talking about flowers and stuff got me to thinking they may not be really be doing ju-jutsu, save maybe some lovely ne-waza, with a disco guitar in the background and a glittery-ball hanging from the the ceiling. Hell Ya ...lets get in on! Marvin Gaye style not silly MMA stuff.

Aaron Fields
seattle-jujutsu club
hatake dojo

[Lee82mark4]

OK, education time.

While I have never heard of a style called "Cherry Blossom," there was, for a short time, a manner of grading in some modern styles of jujutsu, called the Cherry Blossom system. It is roughly the same as the dan-i system of grading.

It had twelve levels, and if I am not mistaken, it was used in Europe, probably in the Netherlends. I am not completely sure of the why or where or by whom, but it was probably used sometime in the late forties until the late fifties or early sixties (I am trying to be as wishy-washy as possible as I know little about it, besides having heard of it).

If it applied to only one "ryu" or school, that I do not know, either. It did exist, but only as a system of grading. For all I know, it may have been flower blossom, but it is so familiar that I am reasonable sure that is was not a style and I am just as sure it was a grading system of some jujutsu style[s].

It may have been the beginning of the multi-color obi one sees today, but Mikonosuke Kawaishi generally gets the blame for that as does his chosen country of France, after leaving Japan.


Mark

PS: Cherry blossoms were very popular with the Samurai. Didn't you see the fact-base movie "The Last Samurai?" ("They are perfect, all perfect.") ;)

[Flower]

talking about flowers and stuff got me to thinking they may not be really be doing ju-jutsu, save maybe some lovely ne-waza, with a disco guitar in the background and a glittery-ball hanging from the the ceiling. Hell Ya ...lets get in on! Marvin Gaye style not silly MMA stuff.

Aaron Fields
seattle-jujutsu club
hatake dojo

:( There are many alternative styles of many martial arts. Some are old and some are new. The style you are looking for , sam, may exist. it may just be a school of jijitsu. However, I don't find there to be anything wrong with a flowery, pretty name like cherry blossom. apperences can be deceptive, and the unthinking ridicule of something people know nothing about is often their sad downfall. Respect is always important (no i don't have a sense of humour, and I know I spelt something Wrong.) :bow:
Larina Carigale

[Mekugi]

OK...how about "Tamanegi Ryu"?


However, I don't find there to be anything wrong with a flowery, pretty name like cherry blossom. apperences can be deceptive, and the unthinking ridicule of something people know nothing about is often their sad downfall. Respect is always important (no i don't have a sense of humour, and I know I spelt something Wrong.) :bow:
Larina Carigale

[Lawrence]

WOW! Not trying to revive a dead thread or anything, but I found this thread and it made me laugh!

Here is why... http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/HomePage

I've been doing it for years! lol

Hope all are happy and starting 2007 with a bang.

Take care,

Lawrence Fisher.

[Mekugi]

Here is why... http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/HomePage


Well, at least they are honest.



Translation
Well as you have probably worked out, Tamanegi is Japanese for onion. A ryu (in this context) is a school of martial arts.
So why tamanegi/onion? As mentioned above, the conversation was fueled by alcohol, but the idea of the onion to describe what we are doing was appropriate. Let me explain, first of all, onions have lots of layers, as do the Japanese martial arts (cheeesy I know, but blame alcohol and Shrek (http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/Shrek)). But due to the way in which we train, we effectively pickle ideas, movements and attitudes from the koryu (http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/koryu) and modern systems to investigate and preserve as they are. These form the kihon (http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/kihon) of what we now do.
The next bit gaijin ga tsukuriagata means, quite vulgarly, that it has been created by a Foregner. The shin budo tajutsu bit explains that it is a modern form (shin) of MartialArts (http://www.bujutsu.org.uk/phpwiki/index.php/MartialArts), budo taijutsu.

Incidentally, modern should be "gendai" in this case, meaning present day.

[Lawrence]

Yep! :D

Well I try to be as much as possible. I think that an honest approach is the only approach.

My passion for training and commitment to things I do cannot be questioned. I have good intentions and want to try and get things right. So, from today onwards I shall start making the change from shin, to gendai.

Cheers for that!
Much appreciated!

I will start with the simple things first, so please excuse me if it takes a little time to clear it up.

All the best!

Lawrence Fisher.

[casper]

I too think there is a relation with dutch jujutsu if the cherry blossom is used. It was used from after wwII (early fifties?) up to the early eighties in the Netherlands. In this same period a lot of Australian immigrants came to Australia from the Netherlands. The system had six different patches all with a purple flower, the colour of the heart of the flower changed with rank, black being the highest.

see also
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7594&page=2&pp=15

[Defined]

hello, can anyone tell me about the 'cherry blossom' style of jujutsu practised by the japanese samurai warrior? A club close by me is offering this 'style' of jujutsu and i would like some information if you can help me pleases, thanks mate. :)

Hi there,
I’m from Brisbane as well so I am pretty sure what you are talking about is called Sakura Hana Ryu Ju Jitsu. I dropped in on them and tried out a lesson when I was looking for places to learn. I was actually going to join but then one of their branches closed down the day before I went to learn. I rang them the next morning after me and a friend had showed up one night to a closed off dark room. I asked the reason they closed and it was because two of the instructors had moved to Europe to become football players.

Their website is here – this is the link to the organisation that teaches it – they teach a number of other different martial arts. The website says that “Ju Jitsu was used by the Samurai warriors in Feudal Japan and its origins date back about 2,500 years. “ Note that they did not say Sakura was the particular style used.
http://www.bmaa.biz/sakurahanaryu.htm

I liked it because when I was starting and I was talking to the sensei he said I could always switch to Seiki Jitsu, which doesn’t have a lot of throwing and falling in it. From what I remember while talking, for each belt rank you have to know a certain number of techniques as well as kata. Price wise it was about $70 per month to attend as many classes as you wish. From what I saw at the class and what I learnt about modern and koryu styles from around here, it is definitely modern. Some of the gurus (not me) around here may be able to give you more information based on that website or others.

Other information I have heard - I was talking to one of the senseis at my school who said she learnt Sakura at lower ranks and she said it seemed a bit ‘cultish’ compared with what she had later studied. [Not my words here].

That’s about it. Hope it helped.

No harm in trying them out, I got a free lesson.

[Graham]

Slightly off topic, but this might explain the flowery name. The cherry blossom is an old samurai symbol, the red symbolising blood and the falling of the flowers, the willingness to sacrafice your life. Or something along those lines. It's also the symbol of the Kodokan, I believe.

[Mekugi]

The cherry blossom is an old samurai symbol, the red symbolising blood and the falling of the flowers, the willingness to sacrafice your life.

This is unusual and perhaps not totally correct.
Kamon (http://www.familyemblem.com/)are varied, and have (of course) different meaning. Cherry blossoms (just called sakura. "sakura hana" like in the above website is a mis-use of Japanese) used in a few of them, but do not denote people from the shi class (bushi, some of them Samurai). There are a lot of motifs based on the cherry blossom, fleeting life is one, so the relationship to the gloomy samurai could be one; but this is not their sole propriety as many have taken on the symbol for other things.

[Graham]

You're probably correct, my interpretation came from an article I read some time ago, possibly on the website of the London Budokwai, but if it was, its gone now. Howver, I found this concerning the cherry blossom as it relates to the Kodokan emblam (http://www.judoinfo.com/kdk.htm).

[Mekugi]

You're probably correct, my interpretation came from an article I read some time ago, possibly on the website of the London Budokwai, but if it was, its gone now. Howver, I found this concerning the cherry blossom as it relates to the Kodokan emblam (http://www.judoinfo.com/kdk.htm).

http://www.judoinfo.com/gandoy.htm

This is a little better....and authoratative.



There are some aspects about our sport that are not clear enough, and we feel unsure about others, maybe, because we don't have enough information about them. Take the title of this article, for example. We are going to try to solve some of these doubts by commenting on our talks to Mr. Naoki Murata, 7th Dan black belt and director of the Kodokan Museum.
Almost every judoka in the world has, at least once, worn a T-shirt where you can see the Kodokan badge. Most of us believe we know its meaning. I myself used to believe it represented the flower of the cherrytree (some of my masters had told me so), but other judokas claimed it was a lotus flower. Moreover, this theory is stated in some books. Well, the truth is both are wrong.
The judo Kodokan badge is not a flower, as we know now. This badge is made up of a red circle inside a red-edged white octagon. In October 1940, the kodokan stated that the badge symbolizes the aims of this Martial Art and it means "indomitable spirit".
What do its colours and shape mean? The octagon represents one of the three sacred treasures of the japanese imperial court: the sacred mirror. This is so because the outer red line forms the eight angles of the dokyo which resembles a bronze mirror similar to the ones used in ancients times.
The white inner side symbolizes pure spirit. Purity, in this Martial Art, represents soft white cotton or thin and delicate cloth which wraps he flame of passionate blood heart (the red circle).
The red circle means indomitable spirit. It stands for an ardent heart, "the spirit which burns like iron in fire", full of fidelity, passion and bravery. It is the true symbol of indomitable spirit.
We can conclude then that the Kodokan judo badge is a symbol which means "indomitable spirit".
Retrieved January 13, 2006 from http://www.judoinfo.com/gandoy.htm

Anyway, the sakura has been related to many things- but is not especially a symbol for the shi class, at least not as much as the sword (which was many times more symbolic than anything else). Waxing poetic symbolism is one thing, but not totally true. This is a good article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakura

[Keikai]

OK, education time.

While I have never heard of a style called "Cherry Blossom," there was, for a short time, a manner of grading in some modern styles of jujutsu, called the Cherry Blossom system. It is roughly the same as the dan-i system of grading.

It had twelve levels, and if I am not mistaken, it was used in Europe, probably in the Netherlends. I am not completely sure of the why or where or by whom, but it was probably used sometime in the late forties until the late fifties or early sixties (I am trying to be as wishy-washy as possible as I know little about it, besides having heard of it).

If it applied to only one "ryu" or school, that I do not know, either. It did exist, but only as a system of grading. For all I know, it may have been flower blossom, but it is so familiar that I am reasonable sure that is was not a style and I am just as sure it was a grading system of some jujutsu style[s].

It may have been the beginning of the multi-color obi one sees today, but Mikonosuke Kawaishi generally gets the blame for that as does his chosen country of France, after leaving Japan.


Mark

PS: Cherry blossoms were very popular with the Samurai. Didn't you see the fact-base movie "The Last Samurai?" ("They are perfect, all perfect.") ;)


You are quite correct in your knowledge of this style.

My sensei Jan de Jong knew of this style and some of the practitioners in the Netherlands either during WWII or just after. I just recall that it may have been a sensei Gertz who either developed it or taught it then.

As you say it was the grade that was the cherry blossom rather than the name of the style. It became generally known as the Cherry Blossom style. I believe that an instructor in Brisbane Australia originally trained in this style before developing his own.

[casper]

The teaching system was called Nakoni after the initiators (Nauwelaerts, Koning and van Nieuwehuizen) of this first national systemized way of teaching jujutsu in the Netherlands. It started in 1938/ 39, the cherryblossom grades were used untill the late seventies and the teaching system was replaced by a different way of teaching in 1983.

source (Dutch)
http://yoroshi.tudelft.nl/?budo&jj

regards,

[Keikai]

Thanks for that correction. I remember now that van Nieuwehuizen was the name my sensei used in conection for the cherry blossom system. He knew a number of the jujutsuka in the Netherlands during WWII and caught up with some of them in the 1980's and 90's when he taught in Europe.

[Patrick Hayes]

Anyway, the sakura has been related to many things- but is not especially a symbol for the shi class, at least not as much as the sword (which was many times more symbolic than anything else). Waxing poetic symbolism is one thing, but not totally true.
Nuh-uh, cuz I saw it in "The Last Samurai."

Seriously though, the sakura seems to be as pervasive a symbol in Japanese culture as the rose is throughout Western culture. It is used as a symbol/emblem/crest/logo by so many entities that to discuss its "meaning" seems rather pointless unless the topic of discussion is narrowed to a very specific context.

[johan smits]

Actually the "cherryblossom" was not a style but a ranking system. It had some six ranks (equal to the kyu system) used in judo/ modern jujutsu and a master rank colored black.
It came into use after WWII - late '40's early 50's.

Until that time most schools had their own ranking system. Before WWII there was no organization to speak of in The Netherlands, they were just starting to get organized.
About Nakoni that was not connected to Maurice van Nieuwenhuizen but to his brother Bob.

Some independent schools may still use it.

best,

Johan Smits

[Mekugi]

great info Johan. Thanks!