Tae Guek philosophies

[ShakeyOneTKD]

I am on a personal mission to learn all that I can about my poomsae. I would like to be able to have enough info. on each form so that I could write an essay for each. I do know quite a bit mainly from the Kukkiwon website, but I would like to know as much as possible. If any one could reply with any info.[no matter how big or small] on the 8 Tae Guek forms and also Koryo and Keumgang. Thanks.

[jakmak52]

Taegeuk Il Jang -- Heaven
(South, Father) The first Taegeuk is the beginning of all Poomses. The associated trigram represents Yang (heaven, light), therefore, this Poomse should be performed with the greatness of Heaven.

Taegeuk Ee Jang -- Lake
(South East, Youngest daughter) In the depths of the lake are treasures and mysteries. The movements of this Taegeuk/Palgwe should be performed knowing that man has limitations, but that we can overcome these limitations. This should lead to a feeling of joy, knowing that we can control our future.

Taegeuk Sam Jang -- Fire
(East, Second daughter) Fire contains a lot of energy. Fire helped man to survive, but on the other hand had some catastrophical results. This form should be performed rhythmically, with some outbursts of energy.

Taegeuk Sa Jang -- Thunder
(North East, Eldest son) Thunder comes from the sky and is absorbed by the earth. Thunder is one of the most powerful natural forces, circling, gyrating. This Taegeuk/Palgwe should be performed with this in mind.

Taegeuk Oh Jang -- Wind
(South West, Eldest daughter) Wind is a gently force, but can sometimes be furious, destroying everything in it's path. Taegeuk Oh Jang should be performed like the wind: gently, but knowing the ability of mass destruction with a single movement.

Taegeuk Yook Jang -- Water
(West, Second son) Water can move a mountain. The movements of this Poomse should be performed like water. Sometimes standing still like water in a lake, sometimes thriving as a river.

Taegeuk Chil Jang -- Mountain
(North West, Youngest son) Mountains will always look majestic, no matter the size. This Poomse should be performed with the feeling that all movements are this majestic and deserved to be praised.

Taegeuk Pal Jang -- Earth
(North, Mother) The associated trigram of this Poomse is Yin: the end of the beginning, the evil part of all that is good. Even in this darkness, there is still some light. Performing this Taegeuk/Palgwe, one should be aware that this is the last Taegeuk/Palgwe to be learned, it also is the end of a circle, and therefore it is also the first, the second etc...

And I'm a ITF practitioner :rolleyes:

[BBFC]

Palgwe Il Jang - Concept of Heaven (Keon)
It is symbolic of the beginnings of life, and it is the basic principal of this introductory hyung.


Palgwe Ee Jang - Concept of joyfulness (Tae)
It's movements are applied when the practitioner is in a gentle, yet strong state of mind.


Palgwe Sam Jang - Concept of fire (Ri)
It is symbolic of one's passion, flickering and flaring at different intervals, and engulfing everything in it's path. From this hyung the practitioner learns to develop a multitude of quick, successive techniques.


Palgwe Sa Jang - Concept of thunder (Jin)
Thunder evokes fear in many people, and this hyung uses this principal to teach the practitioner to be calm, even in the face of impending danger, this form also combines strikes and blocks in such a manner that they instantly follow each other, similar to the relationship of thunder and lightning.


Palgwe Oh Jang - Concept of wind (Seon)
Wind is an element of nature which can be gentle or destructive. This form teaches the student to combine and alternate gentleness with strength and speed.


Palgwe Yuk Jang - Concept of water (Gam)
Water is an element that never looses it's composure, and this leads to it's inherent strength. This hyung teaches the student that they can overcome any problems in life without sacrificing their state of being.


Palgwe Chil Jang - Concept of mountains (San)
Mountains are stable bodies, high and majestic in character, but with definite stopping places. This hyung is symbolic of a conservative approach to one's life ambitions and promote the practice of not living in a hasty manner.


Palgwe Pal Jang - Concept of earth (Gon)
This hyung is designed to summarize the seven previous hyung, as well as to introduce several new techniques. At this stage, the practitioner reviews all previous material before making the transition to the black belt level.

I teach Taguek, Palgwe and Chonji forms....Taekwondo is Taekwondo....

[jakmak52]

Palgwe Il Jang - Concept of Heaven (Keon)
It is symbolic of the beginnings of life, and it is the basic principal of this introductory hyung.


Palgwe Ee Jang - Concept of joyfulness (Tae)
It's movements are applied when the practitioner is in a gentle, yet strong state of mind.


Palgwe Sam Jang - Concept of fire (Ri)
It is symbolic of one's passion, flickering and flaring at different intervals, and engulfing everything in it's path. From this hyung the practitioner learns to develop a multitude of quick, successive techniques.


Palgwe Sa Jang - Concept of thunder (Jin)
Thunder evokes fear in many people, and this hyung uses this principal to teach the practitioner to be calm, even in the face of impending danger, this form also combines strikes and blocks in such a manner that they instantly follow each other, similar to the relationship of thunder and lightning.


Palgwe Oh Jang - Concept of wind (Seon)
Wind is an element of nature which can be gentle or destructive. This form teaches the student to combine and alternate gentleness with strength and speed.


Palgwe Yuk Jang - Concept of water (Gam)
Water is an element that never looses it's composure, and this leads to it's inherent strength. This hyung teaches the student that they can overcome any problems in life without sacrificing their state of being.


Palgwe Chil Jang - Concept of mountains (San)
Mountains are stable bodies, high and majestic in character, but with definite stopping places. This hyung is symbolic of a conservative approach to one's life ambitions and promote the practice of not living in a hasty manner.


Palgwe Pal Jang - Concept of earth (Gon)
This hyung is designed to summarize the seven previous hyung, as well as to introduce several new techniques. At this stage, the practitioner reviews all previous material before making the transition to the black belt level.

I teach Taguek, Palgwe and Chonji forms....Taekwondo is Taekwondo....


Are you saying that the Taeguek and Palgwe forms are the same as the following forms:

Chon Ji – Heaven and Earth
Tan Gun - Legendary Founder of Korea
To San - Philosopher & Educator
Yul Kuk - Confucius of Korea
Toi Gye - Pen name of a Noted Scholar
Choi Gye - Iron Horse
Hwa Rang - Korean youth movement to reunite the 3 kingdoms of Sila
Choong Mu - Admiral of the 1st Korean Armored Battleship
Kwan Gye - 19th Emperor of the Koguryo Dynasty
Bat Sai Dai (Major) - Breaking through the Fortress
?????

[kodanjaclay]

No.

The Chun Hang forms are a derivative of the older Tang Soo Do hyung. Won Hyo actually retains some of the characteristics of Pyung Ahn Ee Dan.

The Taegeuk and Pal gwe poomse are by far more philosophical in intent. They are Taoist derived concepts. Taegeuk means supreme ultimate like Taiji. Palgwe means Eight bars and those eight bars are the fundamentals of the hexagrams. does that help?

[jakmak52]

No.

The Chun Hang forms are a derivative of the older Tang Soo Do hyung. Won Hyo actually retains some of the characteristics of Pyung Ahn Ee Dan.

The Taegeuk and Pal gwe poomse are by far more philosophical in intent. They are Taoist derived concepts. Taegeuk means supreme ultimate like Taiji. Palgwe means Eight bars and those eight bars are the fundamentals of the hexagrams. does that help?

Sure it does Frank, I was debating BBFC's comment about "I teach Taguek, Palgwe and Chonji forms....Taekwondo is Taekwondo....: ??

[kodanjaclay]

OIC. No. Taekwondo is NOT Taekwondo.

[jakmak52]

OIC. No. Taekwondo is NOT Taekwondo.

Exactly my thoughts :bandit:

[yukwon]

When I was teaching TKD I use to suggest a book by Pu Gil Gwon titled Tae Geuk the new forms of taekwondo. It is a good place to start.

[Eliz]

Question.

I learned the interpretations and philosophies of the Palgwe and Taeguek forms as they are defined above: Heaven, joy, fire, thunder, wind, water, mountain, earth. We learned the Palgwe's are "outside the flag" - the bars on the Korean Flag representing Heaven, Earth, Water, Fire. That was also posted - albeit more fluently than my own abreviated definition.

That being said, can anyone explain how the Taeguek's tie in with the "inner" Um Jang circle? More attention seems to be given to discussions on the Palgwe's (outside the flag) and I have never fully understood how the Taeguek's work into the literal picture.

Many thanks. :)

[kodanjaclay]

Ok first let me clarify something for you...

the Palgwe are not associated with the flag called Taeguek ki. The gwe are.

Pal means 8 and gwe means bars. The gwe outside the Taegeuk are parts of the 8 gwe. In order to make the bars that make the hexagrams the four outside the taeguek can be joined in various combinations with the remaining four. When combined in this manner there is a finite number of possible combinations and in fact they held such esteem they were consulted like an oracle. this practice persists today in both Korean and Chinese culture but I believe moreso in Chinese. Instead of yarrow stalks, coins are typically thrown.

Now to you primary question... first off the Taegeuks can really be viewed as one hyung. If you drop the joonbi positions that break up the hyung and perform them as one, it becomes readily apparent that they were intentionally designed to do this. To really understand this link, you are going to have to reseach Taoist philosophy. But in short, taegeuk, and this is extremely simplified and that will cause an incomplete understanding, represents the harmony of opposites. For example, up goes with down to make a complete circle. Not to mention as one becomes completely um or yang the taegeuk represents that the opposite manifestation begins to appear.

If you care to discuss this further, email me. frankclay@indy.rr.com. You have asked an excellent question and one that you could study your entire martial arts career. Indeed, there are those who have.

[Eliz]

Thank you M/ Frank for your explanation. :)

You indicate that entire MA's careers can be devoted to the study of this philosophy. Indeed, the more I read your post, the picture becomes both more clear and confusing. It's one of those, "I think I've got it....sort of" understandings. I think I will follow up on your suggestion and do some outside reading. Thanks again.

[kodanjaclay]

No problem. If I can be of some help, please let me know.

[rupertmja]

I do not know much about the TKD palgwe so found the above info quite useful. Who made and named these forms I wonder - they must be fairly recent.

I have an English lesson I give once a semester to Korea post-grads about the Korean flag. It is quite rare for a single one to be able to explain even a single element of the make-up of their national flag. Between them, in debate, then can get about half-way there. Few have any notion of yin-yang or I-ching philosophy.

One thing I am not sure of is why those particular four trigrams on the flag were chosen - in preference to those left out I mean. I guess heaven and earth are pretty major so had to be included ...

[kodanjaclay]

Rupert,

This is going back many years for me but Chon Gi means Heaven and Earth and I believe it is a reference to the Korean legend of creation. Dan Gun is the legendary founder of Korea but I'm forgetting how the two interface. At any rate, this helps explain why Choi, Hong Hi chose the names of his hyung. The names were meant to help one remember these kinds of things.

[jakmak52]

Chon Ji – Heaven and Earth
Tan Gun - Legendary Founder of Korea
To San - Philosopher & Educator
Yul Kuk - Confucius of Korea
Toi Gye - Pen name of a Noted Scholar
Choi Gye - Iron Horse
Hwa Rang - Korean youth movement to reunite the 3 kingdoms of Sila
Choong Mu - Admiral of the 1st Korean Armored Battleship
Kwan Gye - 19th Emperor of the Koguryo Dynasty

[Eliz]

I have an English lesson I give once a semester to Korea post-grads about the Korean flag. It is quite rare for a single one to be able to explain even a single element of the make-up of their national flag. Between them, in debate, then can get about half-way there. Few have any notion of yin-yang or I-ching philosophy.

Funny. Ask some Americans about our flag....you either get shrugs or you get a bunch of slow answers that end in questions marks. I've even seen people get hung up on what the 50 stars represent - thats a no-brainer.

[kodanjaclay]

I've never had the stars issue. Most of the issues I have run into is what the colors represent and that numbers of stripes represent and that people have no clue about those.

Real shame.

[DragonMind]

The ones that kill me are when they don't know what direction the field should be facing when flying the flag.

[kodanjaclay]

I have one better than that... when I had just left "0" week at Benning I was assigned to the recorded music of the honor/color guard. I played the music when I was supposed to and then hooked up with the rest of the guys and headed back for PT. All of a sudden a couple of the drill sergeants were wanting to know who was on the guard and we came forward. I was excused... fortunately for me.

Come to find out, they hung it upside down and it was found by the battalion commander. Nice. eh?

[kodanjaclay]

also, for more information on the gwe, I'd recommend Wilhelm's translation of the I-Ching. Excellent work.