Greetings,
Is Nihon old school or new?
I've been reading some confusing definitions.
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Greetings,
Is Nihon old school or new?
I've been reading some confusing definitions.
UmmQuote:
Originally Posted by American HKD
Nihon is a country? :confused:
I would gather it is a modern school.
According to the Book 'Secrets of the Samurai: The martial arts of Feudal Japan.' there was a Nihon Ryu that focused on Archery. I don't know if it still exists or not. My guess is that the Nihon you are being exposed to is a modern art. You have a link to hapkido in your signature. Mind if I ask what prompted the question? The school I study at is Nihon Goshin Jujitsu and I'm always curious about other schools out there that offer something by a similar name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Martin
I'm a Hapkido Instructor and I also train in different froms of Jujutsu so I'm trying to learn about the history, various ryu, etc.
From what I gather so far Nihon JJ is a moedern system based on old school JJ with no specific style or Ryu associated with it.
So traditional but eclectic JJ.
i've beeen studying ju-jutsu for in two weeks, 48 years. I have trained in Japan for 21 years and am 1 of 2 teacher of teachers in the world in the area of ju-jutsu. nihon ju-jutsu in a term used for 2 level black belt training in ju-jutsu. we call the rank okuiri. :bandit:Quote:
Originally Posted by American HKD
I found this explaination of Nihon jujutsuQuote:
Originally Posted by shinansharpe
Brief History of Nihon Jujutsu
by Sensei David Maynard
Fighting forms have existed in Japan for centuries. It is a well-accepted fact that Nihon jujutsu techniques are culminations of many different traditions that existed throughout the ancient Asian world. Some of the earliest references to systems of combat appear in the Nihon Shoki (Japan Chronicles) and the Kojiki (Ancient Records). These recordings include fanciful tales that deal with the mythology surrounding the divine creation of the island of Japan and the establishment of the Japanese royal family. Other even older sources hint at a martial source of what we now refer to as modern sumo. These descriptions include sumai no sechie, a court pastime in Kyoto performed to appease the gods and bring about good fortune. The descriptions of this art may possibly date back as far as 23 BCE. There is a famous story of a warrior Nomi no Sekuni of Izumo who defeated and killed Tajima no Kehaya in Shimane prefecture while in the presence of Emperor Suinin. Descriptions of the techniques used during this encounter included kicking, throwing & grappling. From these ancient beginnings were to evolve the arts commonly referred to as Nihon koryu jujutsu.
These methods of combat were just being systemized by the Heian period (approx. 794-1185 CE). Many of the earliest ryu or martial traditions were born during this era. Most of these were battlefield based systems meant to be practiced as companion arts to the more common and vital weapon systems. These fighting arts actually used many different names. Kogusoku, yawara, kumiuchi, and hakuda are just a few, but all of these systems fall under the general description of Sengoku jujutsu. In reality these grappling systems were not really unarmed systems of combat, but are more accurately described as means whereby an unarmed or lightly armed warrior could defeat a heavily armed and armored enemy on the battlefield. Methods of combat included joint locking, throwing, pinning and strangling. Defensive tactics included blocking, evading, off-balancing, blending and escaping. Minor weapons such as the tanto (dagger), ryufundo kusari (weighted chain), jutte (helmet smasher), and kakushi buki (secreted or disguised weapons) were almost always included in Sengoku jujutsu.
In later times, other koryu ryu developed into systems more familiar to the practitioners of Nihon jujutsu commonly seen today. These are correctly classified as Edo jujutsu: systems generally designed to deal with opponents neither wearing armor nor in a battlefield environment. For this reason, most systems of Edo jujutsu include extensive use of atemi waza or vital-striking. These tactics would obviously be of little use against an armored opponent on a battlefield. They would, however, be quite valuable to anyone confronting an enemy or opponent during peacetime dressed in normal street attire. Occasionally, inconspicuous weapons such as tanto (daggers) or tessen (iron fans) were included in the curriculum of Edo jujutsu.
Another seldom seen but interesting historical aside is a series of techniques originally included in both Sengoku and Edo jujutsu systems. Referred to as hojo waza, it involves the use of a hojo cord, (somtimes the sageo or tasuke) to restrain or strangle an attacker. These techniques have for the most part faded from use in modern times, but Tokyo police units still train in their use today and continue to carry a hojo cord in addition to handcuffs. The very old Takenouchi Ryu is one of the more well- recognized systems that continue extensive training in hojo waza.
Many other legitiment Nihon jujutsu ryu exist but are not considered koryu (ancient traditions). These are gendai Nihon jujutsu or modern variations on koryu jujutsu founded after or towards the end of the Tokugawa period (1603 1868 CE). Various traditional ryu and ryuha that are commonly thought of as koryu jujutsu are actually gendai jujutsu. These include Hakko Ryu, Shindo Yoshin Ryu, Daito Ryu, and many others. Although modern in formation, gendai jujutsu systems have direct historical links to ancient traditions and are correctly referred to as traditional martial systems or ryu. Their curriculum reflects an obvious bias towards Edo jujutsu systems as opposed to the Sengoku jujutsu systems. The improbability of confronting an armor clad attacker is the obvious reason for this bias. Over time, Gendai jujutsu has been embraced by law enforcement officials worldwide and continues to be the foundation for many specialized systems used by police. Perhaps the most famous of these specialized police systems is the Taiho jutsu system formulated and employed by the Tokyo Police Department.
If a Japanese based martial system is formulated in modern times (post Tokugawa) but is only partially influenced by traditional Nihon jujutsu, it may be correctly referred to as goshin jujutsu. Goshin jujutsu is usually formulated outside Japan and may include influences from other martial traditions. The popular Gracie jujutsu system, (heavily influenced by modern judo) and Brazilian jujutsu in general are excellent examples of Goshin Jujutsu.
Some systems exist today that have adopted the name jujutsu but have no historical connection to Nihon jujutsu whatsoever. Whether the founders of these systems are dishonestly trying to legitimize their arts existence by using a traditional Japanese name or instead feel the term "jujutsu" most accurately describes the system they are teaching, is irrelevent. Jujutsu refers to a specific art of specific historical origin. While these other systems may teach skills similar to the historic art of jujutsu, and may be successful in achieving their intended end result, they should simply be called something else as they have no technical or historical roots in Japan and, as such, should abandon the misleading use of Japanese terminology.
"So traditional but eclectic JJ."
That might be fair to say. 'Nihon' is another way of saying Japan. So "Nihon Jujutsu' might also be more akin to saying Okinawan Karate. There are schools of Okinawan Karate such as and Goju etc.
The article by Sensi David Maynard makes sense with what I've been told. My instructor mentioned influences from Takenouchi Ryu and Hakko ryu. He has also mentioned Sappo ryu and about 2-3 others that I can't remember off the top of my head.
I missed what you meant I think your refering to Ni Dan or 2nd Dan, that's not Nihon.Quote:
Originally Posted by shinansharpe
:)
Hi Guys,
This is real simple. Nihon is a noun that means Japan. So Nihon jujutsu is Japanese jujutsu. Nihonjin is a Japanese person. Nihongo is the Japanese language.
Given that jujutsu is so prevalently used as a generic term these days, ( Brazilian Jujutsu, American freestyle jujutsu...etc...) qualifying jujutsu will probably become more common in the future.
Me, I'm an old fashioned "stick in the mud" on this subject so I find the term Nihon jujutsu redundant. However, even I'm forced to use it given the realities of common usage in todays budo circles.
Mr Sharpe,
Who did you study with in Japan and in what style of jujutsu?
And exactly what did you mean by this?
" I have trained in Japan for 21 years and am 1 of 2 teacher of teachers in the world in the area of ju-jutsu. "
From the information you provided you started training in jujutsu at 12 years of age in 1960. Then at some point you moved to Japan for 21 years? If this is true did you know Don Draeger, Phil Relnick, Meik Skoss, Larry Bieri or Hunter Armstrong?
Dear Sensei,Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Threadgill
I called a good friend of mine who's Japanese and he said the same thing as you did regarding Nihon.
I'm very interested in trying to learn or at least get a idea of the jujutsu you learned, old school traditons.
Are the waza the same as in Danzan ryu or Aiki-jujutsu? If I'm not asking the question correctly please pardon my ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by American HKD
What am I chopped liver?? ;)
Anyway, I would say unless they came into contact and they have gleaned techniques from the two mentioned schools: no, they would not have the same techniques.
Odd that in 21 years it didn't dawn on you that there are many different Japanese jujutsu ryu - it isn't exactly an "area" except in the numerous additional koryu sogo bujutsu who also have jujutsu (or kogusoku, hade, hakuda, koppo, yawara, etc) in their curriculum. All of these that I know of have a head of system, who are in effect "teachers of teachers". As already stated, 'nihon' has nothing to do with rank - it means "Japanese". What is a "shinan" by the way, is that anything like a shihan?Quote:
Originally Posted by shinansharpe
Back to the question though, this article may be of help:
http://www.koryu.com/library/fabian1.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekugi
Dear Copped liver :) just kidding!
Your response was appriciated.
What I mean more clearly is in the various JJ systems I've seen, all seem to use the same techniques with limited variations.
What are the specific qualities that make Sensei Threadgills Ryu diiferent?
What are the general types of tech? What is considered most important techniques locks, throws, strikes, weapons or something else?
I realize in advance this may be hard to answer and may have to be seen to actually understand.
BTW what do you do in Japan?
Gentlemen, this thread is on the topic/question of Nihon Jujutsu. Any branching off can be done by starting another thread in the appropriate foum. Thanks!
Agreed. I started a new thread here: http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/sh...2431#post82431Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason H
to keep it going.
-Russ
Quote:
Originally Posted by American HKD
I chop liver, oddly enough!!
Just kidding, I am a trade consultant and an English Slave (oops, I mean teacher.) My job definition changed last year, so I am pretty much a freelance Budoka with other jobs. ;)
I always thought it would be cool to work overseas in a country where you have some real interest in thier culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekugi
I may be totally off here, but I've encountered a style called Nihon Jujutsu every now and then when reading up on jujutsu. While all the explanations above may be what the threadstarter was after, this might also be considered.
In brief, it is a modern style of jujutsu, created in Japan, by Shizuya Sato if I am not mistaken. So I guess it could be placed alongside Hakko ryu and the likes. It is promoted through the International Martial Arts Federation, and there is more info on it overe here:
http://www.imaf.com/jujutsu.html
Regards,
Rico
Threadgill Sensei,Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Threadgill
In the fog which is my long-term memory, I seem to recall some ad-hoc org like the Butotukai getting together and making something official of "Nihon Jujutsu". Do I remember wrong?
Thanks.
______________________
"shinansharpe"
On "shinan" (seems it should be "shinanyaku"), see--
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...threadid=29536
"Banned by Moderators"
How is he posting if he's banned?