Training Partners in NJ

**eulogy** · 10-19-2005, 13:03

I am Ojibwe, the founder of American Silat. This is a blend of Silat techniques and principles with grappling. I am trying to start a study group on Tuesdays and Thursdays in Edison, NJ. We will cover self defense against punches, kicks, weapons, multiple attackers, wrestling and submissions, chokes and grabs, and groundfighting. Reply if you are interested.

**kmtsd** · 10-19-2005, 13:28

Another student in my school is interested in learning ground fighting... particularly for full-contact "ultimate fighting" type tournaments. Would your study group be appropriate? Are you charging for this?
He has been learning from a few different jujitsu guys, but it has been tough for him to find a regular practice-partner.

**eulogy** · 10-20-2005, 11:14

The training group is free. We will meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays between approximately 6:30 and 8:30. Our sessions will be divided into ten workouts, so they will repeat once every five weeks. I don't have the curriculum on me at the moment, but here is an estimate

Session 1 - Punch Defense
Session 2 - Kick Defense
Session 3 - Choke Defense
Session 4 - Grab Defense
Session 5 -Wrestling/Lock Defense
Session 6 -Knife Defense
Session 7 - Gun
Session 8 -Groundfighting
Session 9 - Groundfighting
Session 10 - Groundfighting

I don't know how much it will help him train. Training is better than no training. Our workouts will consist of drilling, sparring with safety rules, and live situational self-defense.

**James O'Neill** · 10-20-2005, 11:20

Just out of curiosity but what is "Ojibwe"?

**Sgathak** · 10-20-2005, 12:15

Ojibwe is a native American tribe... and since its not his name, nor his user name, nor does it have anything to do with Silat... and even if the author is a member of said tribe, its use in the sentence is............... well, useless.

But that shouldnt matter because he is a 26 year old style founder.

**starkjudo** · 10-20-2005, 12:24

Originally Posted by Sgathak

But that shouldnt matter because he is a 26 year old style founder.

Hey, it could be worse!

He could be a 25 year old style founder!

**Jeff Burger** · 10-20-2005, 13:16

Oh this is going to go over well.

Jeff

**James O'Neill** · 10-20-2005, 13:59

...As I understand it, it is exceedingly rare that an individual from another culture become formally adopted into any native american tribe. And it would seem to me that unless that is the case, it would be very disrespectful to go around refering to oneself in such a manner.

Of course that kind of ignorant arrogance would seem to go hand in hand with attempting to create one's own style at 26yrs old

Foolishness.

While there is nothing wrong with starting a training group, you don't need to be anyone's Guru to do it, nor do you need to come up with some comic book name for your bag O' tricks.

I'd recomend a big glass of humility and respect as a remedy for what ails ya young man.

**eulogy** · 10-20-2005, 18:54

1.I am part Native American. My great grandmother Fleeda Leonard (I don't know her maiden name) was.
2.I did not find a style. (I know I already used those words). I studied in more than one system and blended the two that I believe are most relevant. Isn't that what all mixed martial artists do nowadays? Would you say Frank Shamrock or Vitor Belfort or any of these guys did not because they are young? Bruce Lee founded an art in his twenties. If we want to be technical, nobody actually invents an art, but after studying more than one, you realize that each has some aspects that are effective that others are missing. I believe that good Silat is one of the most street effective arts; however, Silat was not created in an environment where there were a lot of wrestlers and groundfighters. They do have movements to counter, but many modern Silat practitioners do not practice in a way that if they were to be taken down by a decent grappler, they would be able to apply these techniques because they have no groundfighting experience. In our trainimg methods/system, we train in both Silat and MMA grappling. The blend of the two I refer to as American Silat because it is Silat modified for the American landscape.
3.I do not claim to be a Guru.
4.It is not my real name, but a nickname. I do not believe in giving my real name to any stranger reading a forum over the net.
5.I find it interesting how elders want to engage in personal attacks on me without knowing me personally and are trying to point out that I am arrogant and immature. Isn't it a sign of immaturity to slander people you don't know? Isn't this also arrogance?
6.I am here to find more people who want to train regularly. Training 1-3 times per week is not sufficent for me personally. I attend classes on Sundays. I teach police officers or college students about once per week and have been invited to a great Karate school free of charge. While the Karate schools is very good, I feel that there are too many limitations in the training. Please, I ask that if you are here to argue, I did not join this group for that. If you are here to train, please reply.

**TonyU** · 10-20-2005, 19:00

Originally Posted by eulogy

4.It is not my real name, but a nickname. I do not believe in giving my real name to any stranger reading a forum over the net.

Umm...what's not your real name.
The rules to be a participate on this forum is that all members provide their real full name.

**Sgathak** · 10-20-2005, 22:43

Originally Posted by eulogy

1.I am part Native American. My great grandmother Fleeda Leonard (I don't know her maiden name) was.

Well, in that case, I will now start all my threads with the phrase "I am Cherokee"... Or maybe "I am Scottish".... or maybe "I am German". Even better when it has nothing to do with the topic.

2.I did not find a style. (I know I already used those words). I studied in more than one system and blended the two that I believe are most relevant. Isn't that what all mixed martial artists do nowadays? Would you say Frank Shamrock or Vitor Belfort or any of these guys did not because they are young? Bruce Lee founded an art in his twenties.

So are you on the technical level of Frank and Vitor? Do you have the paradigm shifting philosophy of Bruce Lee? Maybe you have decades of training under your belt? No...

3.I do not claim to be a Guru.

No, you claim to have combined Silat and Groundfighting and teach it to cops... oh, and your 26 and have equated yourself with Frank and Bruce. Ok.

4.It is not my real name, but a nickname. I do not believe in giving my real name to any stranger reading a forum over the net.

Did you read the forum rules when you signed up?

5.I find it interesting how elders want to engage in personal attacks on me without knowing me personally and are trying to point out that I am arrogant and immature. Isn't it a sign of immaturity to slander people you don't know? Isn't this also arrogance?

Slander? How so? For starters, when its in print, its called Libel. Second, no one has has said anything other than question you.

Please, I ask that if you are here to argue, I did not join this group for that. If you are here to train, please reply.

Well, like they told me in the Army "You joined us, we didnt join you". It may be in your best interest to read over the forum for a little bit and get a feel for the dynamics. Id recommend this thread http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/sh...ad.php?t=12160 as it shows rather well the dynamics we have had to deal with recently from 20-something "style founders".

**Jeff C.** · 10-21-2005, 07:43

Mr. Tofte,

If you are only interested in starting a study group, only interested in training, then why the superfluous information about yourself? When you state such information, you invite comment. Please don't blame us for commenting.

Start over, try again. We are a pretty good group of diverse personalities here with lots of experience. Welcome to Budoseek!

I remain, "White Boy from the Swamp" Jeff Cook (hey, I'm on painkillers, excuse the humor!)

**James O'Neill** · 10-21-2005, 07:43

I think Mr. Robbins gave you a proper reply.

I will add that when you begin your posts with a statement like this: "I am Ojibwe, the founder of American Silat." You can reasonably expect to be ridiculed by your "elders".

...Sounds pretty "comic book guru" to me.

Then you go on to compare yourself to the likes of Bruce Lee, Frank Shamrock and Vitor Belfor. ...Just exactly who the heck are you again? And you don't seem to understand why those same “elders” would accuse you of “ignorant arrogance”

.

"...Why's everybody always pickin' on me?"

Dude, I don't care how technical your skills are - you have got a long way to go before you need to think about teaching anybody anything IMO.

Tootles,

Baron James "I-need-to-refer-to-myself-with-some-kind-of-title-because-I-have-self-esteem-issues" O'Neill

**eulogy** · 10-21-2005, 11:57

Jeff C.
Thank you for your response. I would like to start over and possibly a new thread if the group would allow me. I understand yor point and it is well taken. First, I would like to respond to a couple of things.

2.When I brought up Bruce Lee, it was in the context of age. I never fought Bruce Lee. I doubt that I would win. I brought up Bruce Lee because people were attacking me because of my age. My point was is that would you attack Bruce Lee or Frank Shamrock because of their ages?

3.People like Mr. Robbins are commenting on me and my skills without knowing anything about my skills. A similar incident happened here in New Jersey. There is an underground Silat master in Newark that my instructors know very well. Two guys on the street messed wuth him with knives and cut the buttons on his coat. He ended up stabbing the guy multiple times in the buttocks with his own knife. This made the newspaper because the armed attacker ended up calling the police on the other person. The moral of the story. You never know who you are dealing with and what kind of skills they have. I am not saying that I would do this to anyone. So, do not misinterpret this. I am saying that you cannot comment unless you have personally tried me out yourself.

4.I am interested in finding more regular practice partners to practice Silat and grappling in a street context.

5.It is quite possible that at 26, I could have two decades of experience. I am not saying that I do or don't, but Mr. Robbins said emphatically that I do not.

**AndrewSimonsen** · 10-21-2005, 12:27

Frank Shamrock didn't found his own style all he did was become a world champion mixed martial artist. People tend to respect those that step out, put it all on the line, and come out on top. Don't expect people to leap at the chance to treat you like a world champion when you aren't one.
Bruce Lee was ridiculed at the timem if you really wan't to be like Bruce get used to getting laughed at, he did.

**eulogy** · 10-21-2005, 13:39

Thank you for your reply Mr. Simonsen. Your comments and advice make sense and I appreciate them.

**Jeff Burger** · 10-22-2005, 08:48

"My point was is that would you attack Bruce Lee or Frank Shamrock because of their ages?"

As said earlier Shamrock did not make up his own style.
As far as Bruce Lee....
While Iam a fan of JKD Bruce Lee was and still gets attacked (even by his peers) for founding a style.

One thing Bruce Lee did by founding his own style is give thousands of egotistical MAist the idea of founding their own style. It was like suddenly everyone had permission to do it.

How long have been doing Silat?
How long have you been grappling?
What style of grappling?

My personal question.
Why Silat and grappling?
I havent played with much Silat but they had grappling and not sporty grappling either.

**Antares33** · 10-23-2005, 20:58

Originally Posted by eulogy

3.People like Mr. Robbins are commenting on me and my skills without knowing anything about my skills. A similar incident happened here in New Jersey. There is an underground Silat master in Newark that my instructors know very well. Two guys on the street messed wuth him with knives and cut the buttons on his coat. He ended up stabbing the guy multiple times in the buttocks with his own knife. This made the newspaper because the armed attacker ended up calling the police on the other person. The moral of the story. You never know who you are dealing with and what kind of skills they have. I am not saying that I would do this to anyone. So, do not misinterpret this. I am saying that you cannot comment unless you have personally tried me out yourself.

4.I am interested in finding more regular practice partners to practice Silat and grappling in a street context.

5.It is quite possible that at 26, I could have two decades of experience. I am not saying that I do or don't, but Mr. Robbins said emphatically that I do not.

Here's an idea:

Instead of making vague gestures around about how you may or may not have 20 years of experience, and how you may or may not flip out and stab me several times in the buttocks, why don't you just be up front about your training and what you're looking for.

"Hello, my name is Jamie Ziegler, I've been training in BJJ and Kickboxing off and on for about 2.5 years, before that, I trained in two styles of Kung Fu for around a year. I'm interested in finding some training partners who would be interested in collaborating in a self defense and MMA oriented group a couple nights a week in Denver."

Nuff said. No BS. And no need for a two page thread defending your credibility.

**Grei** · 10-24-2005, 00:24

Originally Posted by Antares33

Here's an idea:

Instead of making vague gestures around about how you may or may not have 20 years of experience, and how you may or may not flip out and stab me several times in the buttocks, why don't you just be up front about your training and what you're looking for.

"Hello, my name is Jamie Ziegler, I've been training in BJJ and Kickboxing off and on for about 2.5 years, before that, I trained in two styles of Kung Fu for around a year. I'm interested in finding some training partners who would be interested in collaborating in a self defense and MMA oriented group a couple nights a week in Denver."

Nuff said. No BS. And no need for a two page thread defending your credibility.

In his defense, that's pretty much what his first post was. Minus the specifics on years and plus that "founder of blahblah" thing.