Martial Arts Myths

[Erik]

I thought I'd try to start a thread on MA myths, specifically moves that don't work as advertised.

Let's keep this specific, practical and provide reasonable supporting evidence or argumentation.

Claiming that "the ancient masters did" or "my sensei says" do not qualify.

Claiming that "as seen in competition [refer to said competition]" or "in my personal experience, defined as ____, I have observed..." or "I tried this and expected A and got B" or "one of the guys on my team, police or military unit, did this and here's what happened" do qualify.

They provide anecdotal evidence, not a universal finding, of course, which is just fine.

Using one of Cliff's posts as an example, he claimed that destroying a knee with a kick is a MA myth. It is far more difficult to do than frequently thought. He referred to heaps of K1 matches where guys can kick legs as hard as they want but we don't see this injury very often.

Other MA myths to discuss:
- just hit the nose from below and the broken cartilage will go into the brain and kill the guy.
- strength is irrelevant.
- non-contact KOs (especially through walls).

You guys get the idea?

Okay, your myths now....

[Ramirez]

the idea the skill only will beat out size and strength is one of the biggest. I remember talking to one guy who was telling me that this martial arts organization that he was friendly with had techniques whereby size, strength don't matter, a 100 pound woman in that system could easily take on a 200 pound man. I said yeah, if she had a .357 Magnum.

Then it kind of devolved from there where he thought fitness made no difference, there was actually a one strike kill, etc.

Of course the special forces troops that can easily tear out your throat and kill you with just their bare hands...they really exist and open up schools and hold seminars where they teach this deadly techniques. No one ever seems to answer just how you practice those techniques.

[Jeff Burger]

KO through walls...amateur.
How about West Coast USA to England.
"The Speedman" (maker of many crappy videos) threatened a friend of mine who asked for his money back on the afore mentioned crappy videos.
He said he could kill a person anywhere in the world with his internal powers.


Something more practical.
When you break your hand / bones they will be stronger when they heal. Talk to people who have broken there hand and ask if they think it improved.

Jeff

[Musubi Dojo]

It's been discussed before but;
A blackbelt suddenly gives you inhuman reflexes and the ability to never be surprised again...
A blackbelt comes with great wisdom and a deep understanding of eastern philosophy.
Having a blackbelt means you can kick the crap out of 5 guys all at the same time.

These are all from friends family and associates...

"The Speedman" (maker of many crappy videos) threatened a friend of mine who asked for his money back on the afore mentioned crappy videos.
He said he could kill a person anywhere in the world with his internal powers."

Eats a lot of beans, does he?
That made my otherwise boring afternoon...
Cheers
c

[khujo78]

The notion that size and strength don't matter is, as stated before, a big myth. I saw 2 marine corps close combat instructors go up against each other int he barracks one day. One was a blue belt in bjj and the other outweighed him by at least 60 pounds (and apparently used muscle enhancing products). The bjj guy's technique was great and he almost had his opponent until the guy decided to just spread his weight over him and basically smother him. He really showed no grappling ability (not saying he didn't have any), but he had the size and strength to dominate this guy.

Also, I think we are all familiar with the Dim Mak master who claimed to be able to knock anyone out with a single strike using pressure points and was embarassed on public television. Actually, here's the link, lol:

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...inkinfo&id=122

[Ramirez]

KO through walls...amateur.
How about West Coast USA to England.
"The Speedman" (maker of many crappy videos) threatened a friend of mine who asked for his money back on the afore mentioned crappy videos.
He said he could kill a person anywhere in the world with his internal powers.

Jeff

Speedman sounds like that poster who wanted to inform us of the Red Dragon Technique about 6 months ago, remember a way to "release the internal build up of Ki". That was one poor misguided soul.

[jwinch2]

Awesome. I had forgotten about the ol' "Red Dragon"!!! Very nice...

[hizaguchi]

Myth: size doesn't matter

When I was doing judo a while back, I was able to hold my own against all but the highest ranking students when practicing newaza. With exactly 1 bjj class and, at that time, 1 judo class worth of experience, that was certainly not because of skill. I'm just so heavy that moving me around isn't trivial. In the 1 bjj class I got to take, the situation was similar, but they were just better at dealing with it and had less trouble handling me. So I'd say that, yes, superior technique can overcome size to an extent, but not to the point that size doesn't matter. That tiny girl I was practicing pins with didn't stand a chance.

[Sgathak]

"its not the art its the artist"

Hear me out here...

This has to be the singlemost PC BS answer Ive ever read, and it astounds me each and every time I see it.

The simple reality is that the art DOES MATTER.

If it didnt matter than martial arts would have never formed, it would have just been one good fighter against another good fighter doing their own things respectivly. But the art DOES matter.

It matters in its context.

If all it took were guts and heart to win a fight (the fighter) then the only form of martial art would be some "berserker" thing where only the strong survived. It aint like that. why? Because some people figured out ways to take advantage of certain situations.

When in a situation similar to the situation an art was designed for, the techniques of that art have a higher probability of getting the results desired. If you dont train for that situation, you wont have the ability to get a strong liklihood of success in the situation.

Its not the artist, its the situation and whether or not you prepared for that situation. If your not prepared because the art doesnt address the situation...............

[DanielS]

Also, I think we are all familiar with the Dim Mak master who claimed to be able to knock anyone out with a single strike using pressure points and was embarassed on public television. Actually, here's the link, lol:

His instructor is George Dillman... Go figure!!!

[Erik]

"its not the art its the artist"

Great post, Joe.

I've been trying to find the words to argue against this one, too.

Well said.

[Sgathak]

Another thing that needs considering is that some situations are more likly to occur than others.

If you trainin an art that addresses the most common situation, with techniques likely to provide the most consistent results, then by default you will be better prepared to deal with the "average" situation.

If however, you train in an art that trains for very specific situations, uncommon situations, or uses techniques that dont get consistent results, then by default you will be less prepared to deal with the "average" situation.

this is NOT to say that these arts are by any means inferior. In fact they are SUPERIOR. But only in their own context.

someone who is extremely skilled in MMA (for example) may be very prepared to deal with 99 out of 100 situations, but he is probably SOL if someone who has only trained in, but is very skilled in sojutsu, happens to charge at him with a spear.

[ChampNtraining]

I can attest to brute strength playing a big part in any confrontation. The K-1 champ Bob Satt proved this dozens of times with his massive +350lbs of mostly muscle. His secondary and stabalizing muscles in most of his body are stronger than most people's primary muscles, and he used this to his advantage to escape hundreds of holds due to his opponents having a tough time keeping him held in any single position all too well. He still lost fights off and on but contantly proved that brute strength can overcome a great deal of technique.

[STORMCROW34]

I agree, size matters to some extent. Have you ever tried O-goshi on a 300 pound uke who drops his weight as soon as his balance is broken? Not an easy task from my perspective.

[kenpo123]

The notion that size and strength don't matter is, as stated before, a big myth. I saw 2 marine corps close combat instructors go up against each other int he barracks one day. One was a blue belt in bjj and the other outweighed him by at least 60 pounds (and apparently used muscle enhancing products). The bjj guy's technique was great and he almost had his opponent until the guy decided to just spread his weight over him and basically smother him. He really showed no grappling ability (not saying he didn't have any), but he had the size and strength to dominate this guy.

Also, I think we are all familiar with the Dim Mak master who claimed to be able to knock anyone out with a single strike using pressure points and was embarassed on public television. Actually, here's the link, lol:

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...inkinfo&id=122

maybe the bjj guy would have won if he sunk to street tatics and just bit this guy like a dog while being smotherd, ive never been smothered and dont know if biting is possible but it crossed my mind that maybe.. i dunno

[khujo78]

lol...i'm sure a nice gnaw of the nipple would have gotten his opponent right up! always worked when i was losing to my cousin

[GodofGamblers]

Hey, Doug, what about the infamous EAGLE CLAW? i've always wondered if that works... After years of handstrength exercises involving twisting, grabbing, clawing, etc, you have the ability to simply GRAB your opponent in any spot and inflict incredible pain and injury simply from the strength of your grip.

Is this possible? If it were, it would be the ultimate defense vs. grappling.

And aikido too maybe. Once an EAGLE CLAW grabs you, even if you do a kotegaeshi on him or whatever, when you pull away the guy's hand he would have a handful of your flesh in it. Sounds unbeatable... if it's not a myth.

[David Anderson]

Hey, Doug, what about the infamous EAGLE CLAW? i've always wondered if that works... After years of handstrength exercises involving twisting, grabbing, clawing, etc, you have the ability to simply GRAB your opponent in any spot and inflict incredible pain and injury simply from the strength of your grip.

Is this possible? If it were, it would be the ultimate defense vs. grappling.

I don't know what you mean by 'Eagle Claw' but once in my dojo, a senior student gave me a major full-hand pinch to the flabby bit inside my right thigh to get out of a headlock [yeah, we were just goofing around]. It hurt so bad it actually put me on the floor, and in a day or so I had a bruise the size of a baseball inside my thigh. If he had grabbed me by the goolies it couldn't have hurt much worse.

Pain and pressure point techniques don't always work, but if your opponent isn't totally berserk and gets taken by surprise, I think they can be very effective.

[Antares33]

Pain and pressure point techniques don't always work, but if your opponent isn't totally berserk and gets taken by surprise, I think they can be very effective.

I don't think many artists would disagree with this notion. Pressure points can enhance a technique, you don't get into trouble until you start to rely on them.

My favorite myth is the notion that someone can punch opponents all day long anywhere on the body (particularly the head and skull) and suffer no damage to the hand. I think hollywood plays a big part in this myth, but plenty of Martial Artists beleive and perpetuate it.

[khujo78]

Hey, Doug, what about the infamous EAGLE CLAW? i've always wondered if that works... After years of handstrength exercises involving twisting, grabbing, clawing, etc, you have the ability to simply GRAB your opponent in any spot and inflict incredible pain and injury simply from the strength of your grip.

Is this possible? If it were, it would be the ultimate defense vs. grappling.

And aikido too maybe. Once an EAGLE CLAW grabs you, even if you do a kotegaeshi on him or whatever, when you pull away the guy's hand he would have a handful of your flesh in it. Sounds unbeatable... if it's not a myth.

LOL...yes, the eagle claw is classic!! However, I've always had trouble differentiating between that and a tiger claw, chi nau, nap sau (sp?) or just grabbing someone, lol. But seriously, what really got me was that we were told that if you apply an eagle claw correctly, then no one could get out of it. Then we would learn a technique (of the dozens they taught) to get out of an eagle claw grip...thus proving that it was beatable, lol. HOWEVER, I have to admit that some of it worked in my first bjj class. Knowing where to grab tendons in order to shift someone's weight is a good thing to know. Alot of this was actually eagle claw like grabs which caught people by surprise and the simple feeling of your muscle being twisted brings shock, especially if you don't expect it. Whereas bjj focuses more on larger body parts, I was able to employ some of the kung fu small join manipulation when in close quarters with people who expected other moves.